UKMT - The assassination of the green party by the coward Natalie Bennett

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT - The assassination of the green party by the coward Natalie Bennett

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V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Also, Mao was personally a very impressive individual in a lot of ways

dude was really sharp, also strong-willed, devious and charismatic

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:25

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 16:02

EmptyVessel: Oct 30, 2012

You say impressive,
I say oppressive,
Time to call the whole thing off.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:28

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

V. Illych L. posted:

Also, Mao was personally a very impressive individual in a lot of ways

dude was really sharp, also strong-willed, devious and charismatic

I was watching a documentary about your namesake last night, and apparently he whizzed through a three year law degree in a single year. Smart cookie.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:30

UnquietDream: Jul 20, 2008; How strange that nobody sees the wonder in one another

Yvette Cooper is just killing it in parliament, taking the government to task over Serco.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:32

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Communism is terrible and causes nothing but death and as such is evil, now let me tell you how Capitalism and the British Empire were forces for good...

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:36

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Prince John posted:

I was watching a documentary about your namesake last night, and apparently he whizzed through a three year law degree in a single year. Smart cookie.

Oh yeah, Lenin was one of those people you can read and just *feel* the intelligence of. I very rarely feel completely out of my depth reading even very clever people, but reading Lenin is a very humbling experience. I think it's because he's not a really super cryptic (like Wittgenstein or many continentals) or especially dense in his prose (Hegel, looking at you), so he just lays his analysis open in a way that makes it look completely obvious without obscuring his work. He was very much a product of his time, but I think he might be my favourite prose writer from a reader's perspective - he just hits that sweet spot of sophistication, erudition and straightforwardness for me. More so than even guys like Sartre or Russel, for whatever reason.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:39

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Gonzo McFee posted:

Communism is terrible and causes nothing but death and as such is evil, now let me tell you how Capitalism and the British Empire were forces for good...

You know that saying about "the only thing that all of your past failed relationships have in common is you"? Maybe that's the case here.
Maybe it's not State Communism or Capitalism or Imperialism. Maybe it's humans that are terrible and which something should be done about.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 14:42

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

V. Illych L. posted:

Oh yeah, Lenin was one of those people you can read and just *feel* the intelligence of. I very rarely feel completely out of my depth reading even very clever people, but reading Lenin is a very humbling experience. I think it's because he's not a really super cryptic (like Wittgenstein or many continentals) or especially dense in his prose (Hegel, looking at you), so he just lays his analysis open in a way that makes it look completely obvious without obscuring his work. He was very much a product of his time, but I think he might be my favourite prose writer from a reader's perspective - he just hits that sweet spot of sophistication, erudition and straightforwardness for me. More so than even guys like Sartre or Russel, for whatever reason.

Any particular volumes you'd recommend? I could do with some new reading material, especially in a style other than Zizek's intense chapter-length run-on sentences.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:11

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

V. Illych L. posted:

Oh yeah, Lenin was one of those people you can read and just *feel* the intelligence of. I very rarely feel completely out of my depth reading even very clever people, but reading Lenin is a very humbling experience. I think it's because he's not a really super cryptic (like Wittgenstein or many continentals) or especially dense in his prose (Hegel, looking at you), so he just lays his analysis open in a way that makes it look completely obvious without obscuring his work. He was very much a product of his time, but I think he might be my favourite prose writer from a reader's perspective - he just hits that sweet spot of sophistication, erudition and straightforwardness for me. More so than even guys like Sartre or Russel, for whatever reason.

Do you have any particular recommendations?

I was tempted to read "Left-Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder", just because I found the title hilarious for a book written by Lenin, but should I start with something like The State and Revolution?

Edit: Beaten terribly.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 3, 2015

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:13

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Guavanaut posted:

You know that saying about "the only thing that all of your past failed relationships have in common is you"? Maybe that's the case here.
Maybe it's not State Communism or Capitalism or Imperialism. Maybe it's humans that are terrible and which something should be done about.

Trident would solve that problem

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:17

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I'd rather live in the UK than the Soviet Union maybe it's just me.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:20

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Renaissance Robot posted:

Any particular volumes you'd recommend? I could do with some new reading material, especially in a style other than Zizek's intense chapter-length run-on sentences.

You could compromise with http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n09/slavoj-zizek/barbarism-with-a-human-face

Lenin's big hits are:

What is to be Done?
State and Revolution
Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism

aaaaaaand

Left-Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder

Most of Lenin's stuff is available here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/index.htm

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:21

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Pissflaps posted:

I'd rather live in the UK than the Soviet Union maybe it's just me.

People's Democratic Republic of Great Britain

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:22

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Left-Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder is very good, it's maybe the single most valuable document for assessing the theoretical justifications for the early development of the Soviet Union. I very much enjoy Materialism and Empirio-Criticism, which is probably Lenin's most original philosophical work. Other than that, What Is To Be Done and State and Revolution are, being the biggest "classics", also good for understanding Lenin's thinking. I understand he's got a textbook on the materialist dialectic, but I can't comment on that as I haven't read it. Beyond that, he's got a lot of essays (some terribly dated) and various commentary on contemporary political issues. Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism is also a really good summary of the "orthodox" Marxist view on the relation between, well, imperialism and capitalism as such, and a major theoretical contribution.

Lenin's most important works are fairly esoteric, and he is really fond of Engels, but they can be read on their own. I particularly like his sick beatdowns on people - he writes some absolutely savage polemics. Find anything about Bernstein, or Kautsky after the outbreak of the Great War - his writing just drips of venom.

e. oh hey, look how beaten i got

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:25

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

I'd rather live in the UK than the Soviet Union maybe it's just me.

I'd rather live in the UK than Somalia.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:32

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Gonzo McFee posted:

I'd rather live in the UK than Somalia.

I share this preference.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:33

Larry_Mullet: Sep 8, 2012

You pay less tax in Somalia tho, would be nice having a couple hundred quid extra on your pay cheque every month tho

# ? Mar 3, 2015 15:57

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Larry_Mullet posted:

You pay less tax in Somalia tho, would be nice having a couple hundred quid extra on your pay cheque every month tho

I feel the only minefields you can step on are the verbal kind in the Uk tho.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:01

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

You can become a pirate in somalia

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:03

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I wonder if 'The Great Somalian Bakeoff' exists?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:09

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

Jose posted:

You can become a pirate in somalia

What if you're already a pirate? :filez:

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:10

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pissflaps posted:

I wonder if 'The Great Somalian Bakeoff' exists?

Is there a german bake off?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:25

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

UnquietDream posted:

Yvette Cooper is just killing it in parliament, taking the government to task over Serco.

Nice.

quote:

�Women in Yarl�s Wood are detained on the instruction of the Home Office. The Home Secretary is responsible for ensuring they are treated humanely.

There has been a history of problems at Yarl�s Wood going back many years but we were told those had been addressed.

Yet in September 2013, it was reported that women at Yarl�s Wood had been sexually assaulted by Serco guards who the Home Secretary contracted to manage the centre.

I called on her then to set up an independent inquiry.

In March 2014 a woman died at Yarl�s Wood, I asked an urgent question in this House � and called on the Home Secretary again to set up an independent inquiry into the abuse. She didn�t, and didn�t come to the House.

In May 2014 more allegations came out that another vulnerable woman was sexually assaulted, that a woman who poured boiling water over herself was left for hours in a state of shock.

Again I called on the Home Secretary to set up an independent inquiry.
And again, I called on her to do so at the end of last year.Yet the Home Secretary has failed repeatedly to do so.

Refused to establish an independent inquiry. Refused to investigate allegations of rape and sexual abuse. Refused to let the UN rapporteur even visit. Refused to come to this House. Instead, in November she renewed Serco�s contract.

Gave the same company whose guards stand accused of abuse a contract for another 8 years. Last month the Home Secretary said she�d review policies and procedures in detention centres. She should have done that before she renewed the contract. And now here we are again. Even more serious allegations

A pregnant woman left to have a miscarriage without getting all the medical support she needed. Guards calling women �animals� take a stick with you and beat them up�. Serco guards. Who the Government gave the contract to. Even now, they haven�t set up an independent inquiry. Serco has. It�s an utter disgrace.

The Home Secretary should have come to the House, instead the Minister has been sent out to defend the indefensible. She should go back and tell the Home Secretary to take some responsibility for a change. To stop pregnant women and victims of sexual violence being held in Yarl�s Wood at all.

To hold a proper independent inquiry.

This is state sanctioned abuse of women on the Home Secretary�s watch and it needs to end now.�

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:27

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

serious gaylord posted:

Is there a german bake off?

Apparently so

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:28

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Jack the Lad posted:

Nice.

How can we deny the UN Rapporteur a visit? We're behaving like some jumped up dictatorship.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:32

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Pissflaps posted:

Apparently so

Do they have a star baker?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:38

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

Prince John posted:

How can we deny the UN Rapporteur a visit? We're behaving like some jumped up dictatorship.

Didn't we throw a massive strop at the one who came to see our food banks?

Yvette Cooper for PM imo

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:39

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

serious gaylord posted:

Do they have a star baker?

I get this reference.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:39

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

serious gaylord posted:

Do they have a star baker?

Holy poo poo

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:40

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Kegluneq posted:

Didn't we throw a massive strop at the one who came to see our food banks?

Yvette Cooper for PM imo

Never make a Home Secretary or their shadows into PMs; Home Secretaries invariably turn into fascists in the job.

To be honest, we should nuke Yarl's Wood into the dirt. They've been mistreating detainees since it opened fifteen or so years ago.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:54

tentish klown: Apr 3, 2011

serious gaylord posted:

Do they have a star baker?

Woah

# ? Mar 3, 2015 16:56

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Prince John posted:

How can we deny the UN Rapporteur a visit? We're behaving like some jumped up dictatorship.

No trolling in d&d

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:14

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

baka kaba posted:

No trolling in d&d

It's even worse than trolling - I actually still imagine we're in a world where people at the top do have an eye for upholding some rudimentary standards of decency. How silly of me.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:18

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

http://m.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-31699347

Netenyahoo is talking about Iran to the Americans

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:20

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Prince John posted:

It's even worse than trolling - I actually still imagine we're in a world where people at the top do have an eye for upholding some rudimentary standards of decency. How silly of me.

I said stop!

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:21

StoneOfShame: Jul 28, 2013; This is the best kitchen ever.

Renaissance Robot posted:

Any particular volumes you'd recommend? I could do with some new reading material, especially in a style other than Zizek's intense chapter-length run-on sentences.

I would move away from the Marxists and read something like Bourdieu's Distinction for a more nuanced understanding of class structure than the Marxist one or perhaps some Foucault for a philosophical framework that offers a great place to critique the framework of Marxism that relies heavily on metanarratives.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:23

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

StoneOfShame posted:

I would move away from the Marxists and read something like Bourdieu's Distinction for a more nuanced understanding of class structure than the Marxist one or perhaps some Foucault for a philosophical framework that offers a great place to critique the framework of Marxism that relies heavily on metanarratives.

die pomo scum

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:26

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Jack the Lad posted:

Nice.

Jesus H Christ. If I'm reading Cooper right, Serco have set up an independent inquiry into themselves after Theresa May refused to. How loving evil do you have to be that the company who will be disgraced if the findings confirm these stories is more interested in the truth getting out than you are?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:27

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

For real, though, Foucault is great, but I do think it's good to have an understanding of the subject of a critique prior to the critique itself, and Lenin is both entertaining and lucid as a writer. Also Foucault really loved him some Marxism, so eh

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:28

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 16:02

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Lenin: A Study in the Unity of his Thought by Lukacs, obviously.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 17:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT - The assassination of the green party by the coward Natalie Bennett

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