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winegums
Dec 21, 2012


baka kaba posted:

You know they'll get some votes purely for that

gently caress I just had a nightmare vision of election campaigns run solely through memes




Lib dems suck XD. Original work do not steal.

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winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Fans posted:

So if you have four kids what do you do exactly? Do you pick your least favorite one to starve completely or do you spread out the food so they all starve only a little bit. Once you get to around five kids I'd say you have to let at least one of the kids starve or they all starve.

C'mon Tories, explain what the government recommended level of hunger in a child is, this is tricky.

I think you'll find it's perfectly manageable provided the younger siblings wear hand-me-downs and all the kids forego the celebration of Christmas and their birthdays. Children have had it too easy for too long and it's about time they realised that "we're all in it together".

Serioustalk: this is a poo poo awful policy that they won't enact this close to election time because of the absolute bollocking they'd get from any number groups with even a passing interest in the welfare of children.

I'm also interested to see what happens with the debates now Cameron is running scared. Despite the heckling Ed Milliband got upthread, I think he'd come off far better in a 1-to-1 debate with Cameron. Certainly in PMQs he's been doing pretty well recently, and Cameron wouldn't have a chance if he couldn't bluff and bluster and avoid answering questions like he can in Parliament. When Milliband is being micro-managed he comes across awkwardly, but in conversations he does come across as far more natural and in town-hall style discussions he relates to people and frames their problems in terms of politics and what his party will do for them. I can see him wiping the floor with Cameron.

All said, I maintain the debates need to move away from this "presidential" system to a cabinet-on-cabinet debate. No more hiding your IDS or Gove, it has to be shown to the world in all of its horror.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Take photos of all the damage and forward it to the landlord. Presumably you had to do an inventory when you moved in?

Current property I'm in was lovely too. Day we moved in the hall floor was wet and smelt as though someone had just ran a mop across it. Bedrooms hadn't been cleaned. Mould in the washing machine, dirty dishes in the dishwasher, MDMA or something in little vials in the freezer (had to gently caress off for 1/2 a day while the police searched the place).

On the plus side we found a fiver in one of the mattresses next to some broken glass.


Tenants really do get hosed in these scenarios, students especially. We all turned up with carfulls of stuff and nowhere else to go. Even if we told the landlord to gently caress off and got our whole rent, deposit and fees back, what would we do? We had nowhere to go and we were starting university in two days time.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


OwlFancier posted:

Because I don't see why "provide for our own people" becomes good when you define "our own people" based on nationality rather than any other kind of social circle.

Again, that the UK as a whole practices the same thing doesn't make it right. The proper thing to desire is for those who can to provide for those who can't, regardless of social distinctions, national or otherwise.

Scottish independence is the polar opposite of that, because it isn't an attempt to oppose the mis-allocation of wealth towards the already wealthy, it's an attempt to draw a line at the border of Scotland and not spend a penny south of it so that Scotland becomes the wealthy. I also don't remotely believe that Scottish nationalism has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity. I will grant you that it may not be the sole reason but I don't think you can sufficiently disown the influence it has on the independence movement, any more than you can argue that UKIP wants to leave the EU for purely economic reasons.

It is a desire to secure wealth for Scotland at the expense of the rest of the UK, and has a distastefully xenophobic association. I don't see what makes it sufficiently different from UKIP. That the unionist movement is mostly an attempt to perpetuate English imperialism and has all of the same problems, doesn't make the separatist movement better.

SNP is a wide church. There are those in the SNP who are little Scotlanders and just want us to close the borders and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. However there's also the group who think that Scotland's political leaning are just too far removed from the rest of the UK to make a difference. Despite us being quite left wing overall we are ruled over by right or centre-right parties year after year. If you look at the devolved policies you can see where the differences are (as nopantsjack pointed out). We have less than 10% of the population and can't work that into a significant weight in Westminster (nor should we be able to).

Of course the boundary of Scotland is just an arbitrary line, really you could probably sweep up most of the North of England into the "should be its own left-wing country" bucket. I remember sitting in the pub talking to some random guy about the independence referendum and one of the things he said that really stuck with me was "I can see why you guys want to leave the union, but please don't leave us with the Tories".

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Ed Milliband was on some audience interview show on BBC 3. You can watch it here. He was pretty good I thought, took on the audience questions well and managed to fit it all into a narrative. Not much political weaseling until a drugs question came up, and he was pretty forthright on most things. Maybe I'm naive but he does come across as one of the more sincere politicans.

Also worth watchign to play spot the Tory. For reasons unknown a group fo them appear to be wearing matching suit jackets and lapel buttons.


]


Also worth watching for the Kosovan guy who inspires an audience-wide "shut up".

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Prince John posted:

If anyone's interested, a sort of mini Question Time with the SNP, Greens and Plaid leaders facing questions. Nicola has already pulled the "Scotland have been stuck with Conservative governments we haven't voted for for most of my life" card though.

UKIP conspicuous by their absence given this is badged as a 'Kingmakers' debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcthree

Standard of debate and responses does seem to be much better than the usual QT, maybe because they're not all on the same panel at the same time.

Got as far as them asking Nicola Sturgeon "how much Irn Bru do you drink?" before I realised at least a few people involved in this show are utter impudent shits. The loving cheek of that was unbelievable and I'm amazed she kept calm.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


baka kaba posted:

Right but "the three leaders will answer questions separately from a studio audience but not debate directly" which makes me think of people who are in the same room but making a big show of refusing to talk to each other. I mean QT is already pretty much the standard political debate format as it is - politicians take turns answering questions and addressing things the others said, so if they're saying they won't 'debate directly' then that kinda sounds like Cameron's only agreed to do it if he gets some Alan Partridge-style contractual power over what takes place

I was going to say at least they can't ignore the audience, but they'll probably cherry pick that too so Cameron doesn't get booed to gently caress like Osborne at the olympics

As Milliband said on the BBC article

quote:

David Cameron is now in the ridiculous position where he'll go to the same studio as me, on the same night as me, with the same audience as me but he won't debate me head to head

It's loving absurd. The media shouldn't wield disproportionate power over the government, but this isn't some principled stand Cameron's taking, it's weaseling because he knows he'd lose in a 1-on-1 debate. I hope they pull a bait and switch and he walks onto a stage with Ed Milliband already there.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Seaside Loafer posted:

Why do you think that?

Firstly because he's avoiding it. He wouldn't be dodging the debate so hard if he thought it would help him.

Secondly because I don't think he's very good at all. Even in PMQs he falls back on blustering or just saying "something something mess Labour left us" . He's a prime minster who couldn't scrape a majority together on the back of overwhelming media support, almost 2 decades of being in opposition against a tired out Labour government with an unpopular prime minister. He's a crap politician.

Thirdly, because Ed Miliband is a decent debater. The Tories and their pals in the media have worked hard to paint this caricature of Miliband as a weird nerd and whatever germ of truth there may or may not be to that, it's still fairly removed from reality and would be really challenged by seeing him debate on a show watched by millions of people. He talks to people and addresses what they're saying directly. Even the simple things he does like asking people their names, or relating questions to previous questions, is a really effective and personalising way of talking to an audience. Cameron can flick on a smile and hug a prole for a camera, but I doubt he could maintain anything resembling human empathy for a whole debate.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Why isn't Boris in charge? Is there a thread of the Tories that dislikes him?

FWIW I think he suffers from the same problem as Farage. The "utter lad" persona is great for an outsider or a backbench heckler, but isn't becoming of a prime minister. It also utterly falls apart the minute you put them in a serious interview and say "ok stop acting the dick, seriously how are you going to pay for this/are we going to war/why are all your ministers paedos?".

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


You can reform top gear and be left with a show about cars. Reform Jeremy Kyle and there is nothing left - the two minute hate is literally all there is to it.

winegums
Dec 21, 2012


Loonytoad Quack posted:

Newsnight tonight was glorious, have 12 minutes of Grant Shapps being torn to shreds on national TV by Evan Davies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGaTm2epsAQ

tl:dw; "Waaaaaaah Ed Miliband"

Glorious :allears:

I did hope that Evan Davis was going to trap him when he said that "all legal business is good business", but then I realised Shapps has no sense of shame, and that he can seemingly spend 12 minutes not answering questions.

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winegums
Dec 21, 2012


My favourite part was the literal blackshirts calling other people bullies

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