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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Very excited for this, yay! :neckbeard:

Edit: Since this will be the Doctor Who thread through to next year, here is the link to my write-ups on my thoughts and feelings on both Big Finish audios AND the actual episodes of the revival, linked since people have asked in the past for these to be easier to find. Some reviews are incredibly short, but everything should be covered in one way or another. Man I write a lot about Doctor Who :sweatdrop:

Oh yeah, and be warned that most of the television write-ups feature a number of spoilers for future episodes as well, as they were all written months or years after I saw them on original airing. Audio write-ups may also feature references to episodes of the show, both classic and revival.

4th Doctor
The Renaissance Man

5th Doctor
Phantasmagoria | The Land of the Dead | Red Dawn | Winter for the Adept | The Mutant Phase | Loup-Garoux/The Eye of the Scorpion | Primeval | The Church and the Crown | Nekromanteia | Creatures of Beauty | Omega | The Axis of Insanity | The Roof of the World | The Game | Three's a Crowd | The Council of Nicaea | Singularity | The Kingmaker | The Gathering/The Veiled Leopard | Circular Time | Renaissance of the Daleks | Exotron | Son of the Dragon | The Mind's Eye | The Bride of Peladon

6th Doctor
Whispers of Terror | The Marian Conspiracy | The Spectre of Lanyon Moor | The Apocalypse Element | The Holy Terror | Bloodtide | Project: Twilight | The One Doctor | ...ish | The Sandman | Jubilee | Doctor Who and the Pirates | Project: Lazarus | Davros | The Wormery | Arrangements for War | Medicinal Purposes | The Juggernauts | Catch-1782 | Thicker Than Water | Pier Pressure | The Nowhere Place | The Reaping | Year of the Pig | I.D | The Wishing Beast | 100 | The Condemned

7th Doctor
The Fearmonger | The Genocide Machine | The Fires of Vulcan | The Shadow of the Scourge | Dust Breeding | Colditz | The Rapture | Bang-Bang-a-Boom! | The Dark Flame | Project: Lazarus | Flip-Flop | Master | The Harvest | Dreamtime | Unregenerate! | Live 34 | Night Thoughts | The Settling | Red | No Man's Land | Nocturne | Valhalla | Frozen Time

8th Doctor
Televised
TV Movie: The Enemy Within | The Night of the Doctor
Audio Monthly Range
Storm Warning | Sword of Orion | The Stones of Venice | Minuet in Hell | Invaders from Mars | The Chimes of Midnight | Seasons of Fear | Embrace the Darkness | The Time of the Daleks | Neverland | Zagreus | Scherzo/The Creed of Kromon | The Natural History of Fear | The Twilight Kingdom Faithstealer/The Last/Caerdroia/The Next Life | Terror Firma | Scaredy Cat | Other Lives | Time Works | Something Inside | Memory Lane | Absolution | The Girl Who Never Was
Audio 8th Doctor Adventures
Season 1: Blood of the Daleks | The Horror of Glam Rock | Immortal Beloved | Phobos | No More Lies | Human Resources
Season 2: Dead London | Max Warp | Brave New Town | The Skull of Sobek | Grand Theft Cosmos | The Zygon Who Fell to Earth | Sisters of the Flame | The Vengeance of Morbius


The War Doctor
Only the Monstrous | The Day of the Doctor

9th Doctor
Rose | The End of the World | The Unquiet Dead | Aliens of London/World War 3 | Dalek | The Long Game | Father's Day | The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances | Boom Town | Bad Wolf | The Parting of the Ways

10th Doctor
Season 2
The Christmas Invasion | New Earth | Tooth and Claw | School Reunion | The Girl in the Fireplace | Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel | The Idiot's Lantern | The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit | Love and Monsters | Fear Her | Army of Ghosts | Doomsday

Season 3
The Runaway Bride | Smith & Jones | The Shakespeare Code | Gridlock | Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks | The Lazarus Experiment | 42 | Human Nature/The Family of Blood | Utopia | The Sound of Drums | The Last of the Time Lords | Time Crash

Season 4
Voyage of the Damned | Partners in Crime | The Fires of Pompeii | Planet of the Ood | The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky | The Doctor's Daughter | The Unicorn and the Wasp | Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead | Midnight | Turn Left | The Stolen Earth/Journey's End

Year of Specials
The Next Doctor | Planet of the Dead | Waters of Mars | The End of Time

11th Doctor
Season 5
The Eleventh Hour (kinda) | The Beast Below | Victory of the Daleks | Time of Angels/Flesh & Stone | The Vampires of Venice | Amy's Choice | The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood | Vincent and the Doctor | The Lodger | The Pandorica Opens | The Big Bang | A Christmas Carol

Season 6
The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon | The Curse of the Black Spot | The Doctor's Wife | The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People | A Good Man Goes To War | Let's Kill Hitler | Night Terrors | The Girl Who Waited | The God Complex | Closing Time | The Wedding of River Song | The Doctor, The Widow & The Wardrobe

Season 7
Asylum of the Daleks | Dinosaurs on a Spaceship | A Town Called Mercy | The Power of Three | The Angels Take Manhattan | The Snowmen | The Bells of Saint John | The Rings of Akhaten | Cold War | Hide | Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS | The Crimson Horror | Nightmare in Silver | The Name of the Doctor | The Day of the Doctor | The Time of the Doctor

12th Doctor
Season 8
Deep Breath | Into the Dalek | Robot of Sherwood | Listen | Time Heist | The Caretaker | Kill the Moon | Mummy on the Orient Express | Flatline | In the Forest of the Night | Dark Water | Death in Heaven | Last Christmas

Big Finish Specials
The Sirens of Time | The Light at the End | UNIT: Dominion | UNIT: Extinction

Also just for ease of access, here are most of the gifs I've posted over the years in the various threads:

William Hartnell | Patrick Troughton | Jon Pertwee | Tom Baker | Peter Davison | Colin Baker | Sylvester McCoy | Paul McGann | Christopher Eccleston | David Tennant | Matt Smith | Peter Capaldi

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Dec 20, 2015

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Cleretic posted:

Well, guess we're opening this thread with a confirmation. Jenna Coleman's leaving. It'll be a shame, but I think that she's had a good run.

Plus, leaves the door wide open for Shona to be here next season.

I'll miss Clara, but man I would love to see Shona become the new companion.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

CobiWann posted:

Shona would be great, but I wouldn't mind Rigsy either. Been a while since the Doctor had a long-term male companion (Turlough?).

Rory :colbert:

Anyway, so it's 100% agreed (and therefore confirmed) then - Rigsy and Shona for the new male/female companions!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Rochallor posted:

Delta and the Bannermen is a mostly funny, mostly good serial.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Burkion posted:

I just watched the Moon Base. Perfectly serviceable serial, very well paced. It's a Good Cyberman story and didn't involve them being ridiculous at all. It has a brilliant line from the second Doctor that I'm surprised doesn't come up more often. "There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be fought."

That line actually gets quoted a lot when people mention Joseph Lidster :)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Goddamn do I hate region locks, they're so stupid and bizarre a thing to have in this day and age.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Getting this written up now while it is still fresh in my head, I'll probably dial way back on the audio chat over the course of the season after this.



Short Synopsis: The 5th Doctor returns to Peladon and discovers arranged marriages, an underground religion, unmarried pregnant deities, and a couple of pissed off dudes who want revenge on the wrong people.

Long Synopsis: Unexplained deaths on the planet of Peladon lead to the discovery of a surprising link between the planet and Erimem of all people. Who is to blame? The ghost of the murdered Queen? Gods angry at the abolishment of the old State Religion? The Royal Family hiding their own dark secrets? An unscrupulous fugitive looking to make a quick buck? The Queen-Mother bitter over her loss of power/prestige? Will a marriage-of-convenience save Peladon or simply make it's ultimate destruction come all the faster? The Doctor seeks answers, Peri attempts to keep a seething Ice Warrior from going over the edge, and Erimem makes an important decision that will end her travels with the Doctor and Peri.

What's Good:
  • The Peladon "cast". Peladon featured twice in Third Doctor television episodes, once with Jo Grant and the second time with Sarah Jane Smith. A return to Peladon in Big Finish doesn't really come as a great surprise, but for me at least it was a pleasant one as I have a soft spot for both those stories, terrible costumes aside. So it's nice to see a return to the setting, as well as a look at familiar (if not necessarily the same) characters. Alpha Centauri is back, his/her high-pitched voice still a trifle annoying but at least not hampered severely by the rather awful (and suggestive!) visual of the costume. An Arcturan and an Ice Warrior are present just as they were in the televised episodes, though not the same characters as from those stories (only Alpha Centauri is that long lived), giving it a nice nostalgic feeling. There are all sorts of familiar elements that help to make the world of the story feel stronger, tied in nicely with the new elements such as the lessening economic power that Peladon wields, the growth of the "new money" Earth, and elements to do with Erimem and surprisingly an otherwise completely unrelated 4th Doctor story - The Pyramids of Mars. Not much time has to be devoted to introducing/explaining the world, allowing the writer (Barnaby Edwards) to focus on the actual plot. This does have its downside of course, in that you need to be familiar with these prior story elements or you could be a little loss... but I figure most Big Finish listeners have probably seen the Peladon episodes more than once.

  • Peri. Even though she starts the story seemingly overlooked/left behind in favor of more of a focus on the Doctor and Erimem, she very soon comes into her own. Happily that's something the story does very well, all three of the main cast get plenty of stuff to do/their own little storyarcs going on. Peri's is particularly strong, as she accompanies an Ice Warrior Prince around the royal palace, slowly developing a friendship/respect for him that gets flipped on its ear when he suddenly becomes murderous. The way she talks her way out of the predicament is well handled, and leads to the redemption of the Ice Warrior (once again, we get to see the Ice Warriors as more than just a straightforward Who "monster") as the friendship/respect between them grows ever deeper. While all three of the main cast get their time in the sun, I feel like Peri gets the most interesting individual part, and that's even considering that this is Erimem's last story. Peri's closing line in particular is an absolute hoot, a great comedic turn to end an otherwise somewhat morose ending.

  • Erimem's departure. This marks Caroline Morris' last Big Finish story as a regular companion, a development that was kind of given away in the bonus story on the previous release, which technically takes place AFTER this story. So going in it wasn't a matter of if Erimem would leave, but how. For most of the first three episodes, there isn't much to suggest that anything out of the ordinary is going to happen. Though she gets plenty to do, she doesn't at all feel like the focus and nothing seems to be leading anywhere... until the reveal of the main villain of the piece, at which point a lot of little things throughout the story comes together nicely and she gets to stand out a little more. In the end, it is Erimem who comes up with the plan to save the day, once again playing off things introduced earlier in the story, and her decision to do what she does feels very fitting and in keeping with her character. What happens next feels like somewhat of a copout, but given the nature of how many 5th Doctor stories ended, this epilogue actually feels somewhat like a nice change of pace. It does mean, however, that what was a strong in-character ending for Erimem turns into a slightly out-of-character and somewhat awkward departure instead. I say slightly, because previous stories have indicated it was something she was inclined to do (return to a position of authority out of a sense of duty) and it doesn't make the mistake that so many other stories did of having the companion suddenly fall madly in love with some character they barely exchanged words with. Erimem here frankly and openly says she will marry the Prince as a matter of convenience/duty, and her comment that fondness might one day turn into love doesn't sound wistful or as anything more than unexpected bonus - to the last, Erimem stays true to the values and mindset that you might expect of somebody from her time/upbringing.

What's Not:

  • Erimem's departure. Given this is her final episode, it's harder to look at it in a vacuum. Her departure should probably be looked at within the context of her entire run with Big Finish, and how she fit in as a companion alongside the 5th Doctor and Peri. Though it was never anything as marked as C'Rizz's tortured run, I did feel like there was always a sense that the Doctor and Peri both were frequently looking for an out, some way to get rid of Erimem and move on without her. An unfair interpretation perhaps, and more likely down to the fact her status as a Big Finish creation meant writers could conceivably tease a departure/death in a way they simply couldn't for Peri. But it does put the ending of this story in a somewhat different light, as the Doctor seems all to eager to move on (repeating a line made by the 8th Doctor in a similar situation) and even Peri seems to be half-hoping that they can just clear out of there at last. The decision for them NOT to stay for the wedding feels odd, I can't exactly see why they'd choose not to be there, it's not like we needed the scene to play out in the audio, they could have agreed and then the next story would have started sometime after the fact. I don't think it was intentional, but I still can't help but feel that they're relieved to get back to the way things were before they met Erimem. That is even odder because half the time Peri and Erimem actually had excellent chemistry together and had a pretty great dynamic of sisterly affection for each other, and particularly enjoyed teasing the rather put-upon Doctor. But then you'd run into any number of times where either Peri or the Doctor started dropping less than subtle hints that maybe Erimem would like to leave now and they'd go on without her. Again, I don't think this was in any way intentional, but the way the stories were put together by various writers ended up painting the idea of a picture that wasn't really there.

  • The end episode's heavy exposition. Throughout most of the story, things happen and the listener is kept informed by the context of the dialogue in conjunction with the sound effects. But in the final episode, suddenly we jump back 100 stories to the time when Big Finish just had the characters yell narration of what was happening because they weren't sure how to convey that information otherwise. The final battle with the main villain of the story is particularly guilty, as during a flurry of activity we get multiple characters yelling things like,"Oh well done you did the thing!" "Oh no now this other thing is happening!" "Quickly, go do the thing, okay great you've done it, oh but look now the baddie is doing this, we better duck before we get hit by that, phew that missed us, let's do this! Now we're doing it!"

  • The red herrings. Throughout the story, multiple red herrings are thrown up as to what might be behind the troubles besetting Peladon. Some of these tie into later events and have some relevance, but others are there purely for the sake of being red herrings, with perhaps the most blatant being the Arcturan attempting to run an illegal mining operation under the noses of the authorities. That subplot gets significant time and attention with plenty of moments where one character or another speaks to themselves in sinister tones suggesting some deeper game is being played.... and then it just ends. A bunch of people die, somebody gets captured and then.... nothing. It goes nowhere and has only the most cursory impact on the actual main plot (the revelation of some writing providing the link between Earth and Peladon). In the end, it feels more like filler, only there to pad out the running time. Considering this story has returned to the 4 episode format that's kinda funny, because cutting out the subplot and reducing the story to a 3 episode structure would probably have made the plot feel tighter.

Final Thoughts:

The Bride of Peladon sees a welcome return to a familiar setting, and does a good job of crafting a main plot where everything eventually comes together in a way that makes sense, even if it isn't always obvious as events are happening. Some of the supporting characters are a little unpleasant, annoying or frequently foolish, and some of them are rather concernedly treated effectively as props, particularly the victims of the main villain. But the three main cast members all get a good chance to shine and make use of their time in the sun. There seems to be a slightly troubling endorsement of the idea of "royal blood" being naturally superior to "peasant" blood until you consider the nature of one of the Royals (she is the daughter of an elected King), making the idea just that - an idea - the villain is effectively affected by their own prejudices/some form of psychic block. This is a story that crosses the fine line of enjoyable continuity references that enhance but don't alienate and,"You pretty much need to have seen the stories this is referencing for it to really work". That means if you've never seen the requisite Pertwee stories (and to a lesser extent a Tom Baker story as well) you're probably going to be rather lost and feel little to no investment in the characters and the events of the story. As a final story for Erimem, it mostly works in keeping in character and doing her good service, and oddly ends up giving Peri a chance to shine on her own.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Toxxupation posted:

Doctor Who loving sucks!

Ahem, I think you will find that actually, Doctor Who rules.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

A bow and arrow? All that will do is take down spaceships in the upper atmosphere!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Well so far this is creepy as poo poo, nice.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Oh my loving God :stare:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

"Doctor who is required" It's WOTAN, I loving knew it!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Ahahahahaha , oh Master :allears:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Haha, this just keeps getting more and more batshit.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

That whole episode was a giant mess, but an incredibly enjoyable one.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

2house2fly posted:

I don't know where people are getting "mess" from, there was nothing really confusing or out of nowhere,

It wasn't confusing, it was just that the story threw everything and the kitchen sink in and there was a lot of tonal whiplash as scenes seemed to get packed in like sardines.

As I said, I found it a very enjoyable mess, but a mess nonetheless.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Gifs from The Magician's Apprentice.... also I really hate Imgur's new layout/uploading system :mad:

















Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 20, 2015

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

















Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 20, 2015

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I loved the sections where Davros is talking about the Daleks as his "children", as well as admitting that he has zero control over them and glorying to the fact that they're holding out on exterminating Clara till she runs. I like the idea that at the end of his life and resigned to his fate (which I don't believe for a second) he's willing to just sit back and enjoy the fruits of his labor, and enjoy the fact his "kids" are doing so well.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Burkion posted:

Also the Daleks have pretty much just won the Time War at this point. It's not even a question anymore. Davros should be proud.

It's interesting because they undoubtedly "won" in that they survived and eventually rebuilt.... but I get this weird sense that they're now somehow "lesser" than they were - more in line with the (still galaxies spanning) Empire/threat level they were during the Hartnell years. They obviously still have some form of time travel technology, but I've just had this sense since Victory of the Daleks that they're not on the same level as they were during the Time War. The Master pointing out the potential of the TARDIS as an asset to their Empire was kinda interesting in that regard, since it suggests they're not capable of producing anything beyond the crude, brute-force time travel they developed for stories like The Chase.

Who really knows of course, since nothing explicitly has been said, and Davros is around and he's basically capable of producing ANYTHING. It's just a sense I've had, and in a way that makes them the losers in the Time War, because the Time Lords did survive, and though they're not around anymore... they weren't ever really around before the Time War either. The Time Lords were always happy to be at the top of the food chain but isolated and non-interventionist, and now they're effectively as isolated as they can be. As we saw in Time of the Doctor, they're also more than capable of stepping in to gently caress up the Daleks big-time if forced to, but are kind of in a manner of detente in that coming back might kick off a whole new Time War as the Daleks have a history of escalating their abilities in reaction to a new enemy. If the Time Lords stay away, the Daleks may never rise above their current (and still unbelievably deadly) station in the Universe.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The_Doctor posted:

I really liked Missy's portrayal of being on an even par with the Doctor, to the point of being a surrogate Doctor for Clara/the audience when the real one is busy chatting to Davros.

I love that the Doctor quietly offers the,"Gravity" line to the Master like he would to a companion, giving them a clue they can use to figure out what he already has.... and the Master just rolls her eyes and grunts,"I know! :rolleyes:"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I really enjoyed her contempt for Clara's sarcastic "It must be love" line, ripping into her for not being able to look beyond "reproductive urges" and getting in a dig at the "primitive" human race in the process.

I've always enjoyed the notion that the Doctor looks at his human companions like children - smart, enthusiastic people to be guided who can also teach him a thing or two/show him new perspectives etc, and how that is contrasted by the Master who just considers them "pets" (in the worst way), barely above animals, things whose function is to amuse or otherwise stave off loneliness. It showcases how different the Doctor is from regular Time Lords, including the Master who is a whole other kind of renegade.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Which is an interesting retcon because the Dalek's time machine was explicitly better than the TARDIS in The Chase

Yeah but that was only because the Daleks sacrificed their ability to do basic math easily in order to get it to work. :colbert:

In all seriousness though, I haven't watched it for a while but I kinda recalled the Daleks only being able to follow the path that the Doctor was taking in his TARDIS, and the only time it actually goes anywhere ahead of the TARDIS is when the Doctor gets inside and programs it to return Ian and Barbara to 1963 (and he screws that up too!)?

Of course a lot of this is just subject to interpretation since I doubt any long-term forward planning went into The Chase, and they just wanted a reason for the Daleks to be able to follow the Doctor into a number of different historical scenarios. I just generally get a sense that the Daleks' time-travel is more akin to the Vortex Manipulators than the TARDIS (which maybe means inside the Dalek casing they're frequently feeling nauseous!).

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Burkion posted:

Where the Doctor was quite firmly against it, to boot.

That was kinda the point though, Davros (being Davros) is trying to gently caress with the Doctor's head and force him to admit/act in a way that in his past he rejected or took the moral high ground over ("Would you do it, Davros? Would you do it?" being the Doctor condemning Davros for his "At any cost" mentality). The 12th Doctor abandoning young Davros to die when he realized who he was shows a level of hypocrisy that old Davros wants to exploit/rub the Doctor's nose in. "How dare you make those high-handed speeches to me about morality and look down your nose at me when given the right situation you'd "fail" the same hypothetical test you gave me - admit I was right, admit you're no better than me, before I die* give me the one last victory and let it haunt you forever. In short, gently caress you, Doctor."

The cliffhanger plays on that idea, and of course not a single person watching actually expects the Doctor to really kill Davros (he'll probably shoot the hand mines to clear a path for him), it's just there for the drama of the moment. Most cliffhangers involves the Doctor or a companion seconds away from death and nobody really thinks they're actually going to be killed, the idea has been and probably always will be just to raise interest in HOW they get out of the seemingly hopeless situation they're in and it's the same thing here.


* I highly doubt he's dying, and even if he is I fully expect him to figure a way out of it/have some kind of scheme set up to continue to live his horrible life.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

RunAndGun posted:

And the over-the-top, hyper-complicated, extravagant way Missy came back: "OK, cutting to the chase: not dead, back, big surprise, nevermind..."

One of the best bad-guy(girl?)-returns ever.

What I like even better about that is that they don't even bother with an explanation for Davros. Last we saw him he was in a time-displaced section of space sitting on top of a giant bomb screaming that he'd rather die than be saved by the Doctor, then he's just back and nobody even bothers to question it because of course Davros is still alive, that's his thing.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Well Manicured Man posted:

And then the Daleks immediately betray her.

No no no, the Doctor says to the Master,"You know the Daleks will just betray you when they get what they want, right?" and the Master will go,":aaa:" and then agree to team up to gently caress up those Dalek assholes who were going to betray her before she could betray them.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Mr Beens posted:

Things that are still to resolved (all of which are reasonably big)

How did Missy come back?

She's the Master, that's what she always does. If you want an explanation, as many of us noted when Death in Heaven aired, her "death" looked remarkably similar to the teleportation effect she used in that same episode - she also reveals in this episode she is wearing a Vortex Manipulator that enables crude travel through time and space, so there's your explanation right there.... as well as probably set up for her and Clara's ("your vortex manipulator is now slaved to mine") escape from their apparent deaths this episode.

Mr Beens posted:

Why was the doctor hiding?

After he unknowingly went to Skaro and met child Davros, he felt shame and loathing over the fact he ran away and heads off to meditate on his actions. He then hears that old Davros is alive and looking for him, leading to....

Mr Beens posted:

Why does he think it is his last day?

He knows that eventually agents of Davros will catch up to him or that he will have to just suck it up and go visit him, and that Davros will probably kill him (and he figures maybe he deserves it). So he decides he'll go and enjoy himself for a little while as a going-away present for himself, then go face the music.

Mr Beens posted:

What is in his will?

If it isn't some kind of trap/trick he's set up in advance, I imagine that it's ultimately irrelevant as anything more than a signifier for the characters (and the audience) that poo poo is serious and the Doctor thinks he is in trouble.

Flea Wars posted:

My favorite character is the BBC News strapline writer.



That whole section felt so RTD that I was legitimately surprised that Trinity Wells didn't show up. :xd:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

CobiWann posted:

For those who care, my review of The Magician's Apprentice will probably go up tomorrow evening.

I'm very interested, I know for myself I prefer to look back at these episodes within the context of the entire season and how they relate to themes that might not have been immediately apparent. So it's cool to see reviews/write-ups in progress, kind of a purer look at the merits or otherwise of an episode without the benefit of hindsight to say,"Well this is automatically great now because it played into something coming 11 weeks down the line, even if it made no sense at the time."

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

AndyElusive posted:

Did I miss something? When did he get near total control over the TARDIS?

There was a period there when the TARDIS thought it would be funny to let the Doctor think he actually had near total control over the TARDIS :allears:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

docbeard posted:

The Doctor barely has full control over the Doctor, much less the TARDIS.

Beautiful :golfclap:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

computer parts posted:

The implication from the beginning of the episode is that the Doctor left Davros and he became an entity of hate because of that, but now it looks like the Doctor saves him even though he's going to go make the Daleks.

I don't think the implication was supposed to be that the Doctor "created" Davros, the conditions he grew up in did a fine job of that, just that this gave the extra added wrinkle of the older Davros now having recovered the "memory" of meeting him at that pivotal moment, understanding the fresh context and realizing it was something he could goad the Doctor about.

This isn't a predestination paradox where the Doctor ALWAYS met Davros as a child and had this impactful meeting with him, the Doctor never met Davros as a child until the 12th Doctor actually meet him, creating a new memory of an event that hadn't happened before*. Hell, the 12th Doctor himself isn't supposed to exist, initially when the 11th Doctor died at Trenzalore he stayed dead for good. Hell hell, Davros initially just created the Daleks and was killed by them, end of story. Then the 4th Doctor got sent back to interfere in their creation and inadvertently gave Davros new information to incorporate into his designs.

* This is one of the reasons that the Time Lords want to keep from getting involved directly in the affairs of the rest of the universe, poo poo gets confusing!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I agree that the opening section throws in a ton of ideas, each of which could have quite easily been explored as single episodes all to themselves. Too much all at once can feel like overkill, and the pacing does seem a little rushed to begin with. It's only after Clara meets with the Master that things start to slow down and get less frenetic, and once they arrive at the "hospital" the show settles into what feels like the single story it should have been addressing all along.

CobiWann posted:

Someone in the last thread wrote about Six and Davros becoming roommates and arguing over the dishwashing schedule...

Davros was discussing the schedule, the Doctor had other concerns on his mind :)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

saucerman posted:

Yeah, I don't see the connection to the plot, even if you include the snake dude in the list of "Apprentices".

When UNIT brings in Clara, she's able to act as a surrogate for the Doctor, making connections that the others didn't and figuring things out - she's brought in as the next best thing to the Doctor, his apprentice (and he's later explicitly called a wizard).

Of course this brings up any manner of other problems mentioned by others earlier in the thread, not least of which is that UNIT comes across as incompetent - perhaps the worst scene being when Clara asks about the fuel and Kate goes,":aaa: I never thought of that!" but I think the title's meaning was fairly obvious in the context of the episode.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Someone asked earlier whether the Handmines are what become the Daleks - not at all, unfortunately (for them) what becomes the Daleks are the Kaled people themselves, Davros comes to the conclusion that a nuclear wasteland is the only possible outcome of the ages-long war between the Thals and the Kaleds and therefore the only way to survive is to mutate the Kaleds into a form that can survive/thrive in high radiation.

The Handmines would seem to be just one in a long series of horrible weapons designed by both sides as part of their arms race for superiority over the other side. When little Davros grows up, he'd become the Head Scientist for the Kaleds and design even more of the same type of thing, with the Daleks being his ultimate end weapon.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Sep 21, 2015

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Angela Christine posted:

Heh.

How will we ever win this horrible arms race? Wait, I have an idea!

"What's the matter buddy? Ever since your handmines idea got shot down, you've just clammed up."
"Clams...... of course! It's all so obvious now :aaa:"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


This guy has the best job in the world :allears:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Sad King Billy posted:

When I saw Snake Man, I was reminded of The Mara.

A friend of mine who claims to just be a casual fan saw the Snake Man and immediately shouted out,"KINDA?"

"Casual fan" my rear end :smugbert:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

He's only kinda casual

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Also he means Mara, the Kinda were the people and the Mara were the snakes.

Yeah I know, but I'd already caught him out on being a secret fan, I wasn't gonna scare him off by saying,"ACTUALLY I believe you mean the Mara :reject:"

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