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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Something interesting I should note about the free strafe in this game and in Prime 2 (when you hold L without locking on) is that it's not quite a free strafe like you'd see in more standard FPS games. Instead, the game just locks you onto a point that's rather far away and rotates you around that. It's still close enough that you can notice the distinction, but regardless it's interesting to consider the technical limitation that Retro was unable to write up a true free strafe in the Metroid Prime engine.

Prime 3 may or may not have had a true free strafe, but in any case the Wii's changes to the FPS controls from the tank controls of Prime 1 and 2 made a true free strafe less meaningful.

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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






The funny thing about that tube hallway made of Bendezium is that it's just one of many references to a setpiece back in Super Metroid. See, in that game you could get access to Maridia either by entering from the top (which was probably the best way considering that you also got an upgrade that mattered a lot for that zone) or from the bottom. But to enter from the bottom, you had to enter a similar tube hallway and blow it up from the inside with a different upgrade that we don't have yet. Since then, the Metroid games (Prime 1/2 and Fusion at least, not sure about Prime 3 or Hunters, doubtful about Other M considering how late you got that loving upgrade :suicide:) have found a way to shoehorn in a similar setpiece as part of one of the older callbacks in video game history.

Also, another way to take out those turrets with relative impunity (especially if you don't have a version with Missile Cancelling) is to stunlock them with half-charged shots. (You can figure out your charge level by watching the meter on the side of the targeting reticle.)

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Rabbi Raccoon posted:

I wouldn't say it's the best way since short of a small bug, you can't get where you need to coming in from the top. That tube has to be destroyed at one point or another.
Is there some one-sided gate I'm forgetting about? I believe that you can at least use the elevator to go from top to bottom (and back) on your first entry from either direction.

(It's been a while since I last played Super Metroid, though I'm confident I could still get everything and beat it within a few hours if I tried.)

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






gnome7 posted:

In Prime 1, yes. It doesn't do that in Prime 3, which is where the motion controls were introduced, and you need the motion controls for those boss fights. They very explicitly have parts you need to shoot at that you do not lock on to.


I did not know this and that makes the Prime Trilogy a bit better. I actually don't own the Prime Trilogy specifically because I already have GCN versions of Prime 1 and Prime 2. I'm mostly complaining about Prime 3, and cannot fathom going back to the first games with that terrible control scheme. It'd probably be better than prime 3 though, because that game went all in on the gimmicky motion controls. Who really thought tossing the nunchuck around was a good button input for a thing you need to use mid-combat constantly, honestly?
Honestly the best stance for Prime 3 is to plant your elbows on your hips, which still allows for a lot of motion while not really fatiguing you much. As for the motion controls, make all your motions orthogonal to the television (or your monitor if you're some crazy like me who played it through VirtualDub).

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Rabbi Raccoon posted:

So if the beams don't stack, is the Power Beam pretty much useless now?
Pretty much except for a combo upgrade we're about to get, for dealing with early-game trash, or for certain specific enemies that cannot be damaged by other beams. Admittedly, said combo upgrade is extremely useful against bosses, but against anything else it's just overkill. See, Prime 1's weapon selection is something of a problem when each new beam is notably better than the previous one. Not only does the Wave Beam home in slightly, but it also stuns most things it hits with a charged shot. This even includes half-charged shots, and thus you can often take on a pack of enemies by funneling them into a line and stunlocking the nearest one with half-charged shots. The Power Beam's combo upgrade might be useful for damage if the enemies had more health, but outside of some rare instances they don't.

Prime 2's weapon selection was definitely the best of the series, because it constantly gave you reasons to use each different beam rather than just the current one. The Power Beam is still the weakest of the bunch, but when the enemies start ramping up in difficulty that same combo upgrade gains significant use. Weapon ammunition was a bit wonky but scavenging for more was never difficult, so I didn't mind it. As for Prime 3, well, let's just say that combat had a different focus than choosing which beam to use.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






The Prime games have some pretty memorable bosses. Thardus and the next two bosses are likely the best from Prime 1, but regardless there's a lot in store from 2 and 3. Thardus himself is one of the bigger roadblocks on Hard Mode, because you've got fourteen different pieces to destroy in sequence and each takes two Super Missile shots to bring down assuming they're not blocked. At this point, barring glitch abuse you'll only have enough capacity for ~70 missiles/seven sections down without destroying his projectiles. That's something of a chancy proposition considering that you have to divert your attention from the boss himself, and of course because it's Hard Mode his attacks deal double damage. (Charged beam shots still hurt him, but do so more slowly.)

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Yorkshire Tea posted:

Honestly the boss fights is where 3 absolutely excels. Specifically a certain shapeshifting subboss provided me with probably the most satisfying and intense fight I've ever had in a Metroid game.
Agreed; that particular boss fight is frenetic in the best possible way.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






That map is a horrendous mess. Even Other M for all its faults (which are myriad) didn't have nearly the bullshit and lack of connectivity this thing does.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






FPZero is also somewhat underestimating this game's length. You two are still somewhere between halfway and two-thirds of the way through the game, considering that -the Phazon Mines are decently large, -there are a bunch of things still left to be found outside the Phazon Mines, and -there is still the endgame sequence connected to the various Chozo artifacts.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






I would not call Wave Troopers "scary" at all. First, their weakness is the Wave Beam, which can be used (as FPZero and I had noted on separate occasions) to stunlock them with half-charged shots. Second, their damage actually isn't that great in Normal difficulty. Somewhere in the most recent video, FPZero was surrounded by Wave Troopers and yet he still only took perhaps one energy tank's worth of damage.

Really, most enemies in this game aren't that powerful or tough unless you play on Hard mode. This is the big reason why (contrary to what FPZero said) the balance between beams is out of whack. In theory the Power/Wave/Ice Beams are all balanced with each other in a tradeoff between power-per-shot and rate-of-fire. But in practice, the majority of enemies have so little health that your most powerful beam will just take them down in one or two shots anyway - Metroid Prime isn't a terribly difficult game until the final few bosses.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






After the panda discussion I decided to look things up to see how weird their physiology has become, and wow are they really a bunch of living fossils. :psyduck: Many of their issues stem from them being former carnivores who transitioned to eating mostly plants, and nutritionally poor bamboo in particular. (Bamboo doesn't have much protein in it, and thus pandas will oftentimes go for supplements in the wild or captivity.) Because pandas used to (as a population) be carnivorous, their guts are comparatively short for things of their size. This has to do with cellulose (from plants) taking a significant amount of effort to break down compared to muscle and fat (from animals), such that many herbivores larger than a few inches have dedicated adaptations for artificially lengthening their GI tracts in some way. And this is in addition to using symbiotic microbes to tear apart ingested cellulose in the first place. (Pandas use these but aren't born with them, such that cubs generally get them from...other sources.)

Anyway, one adaptation for artificially lengthening the GI tract is rumination, to increase the stomach's capacity and to periodically regurgitate larger particles of food in order to break them down (for increased surface area) through chewing. (Hence cows chewing their cud.) Another digestive cheat is for rabbits to pass things through their GI tract twice, by excreting cecotropes from the usual spot and then consuming them for a second pass. (I am not a pet person but in particular I would be weirded out by owning a rabbit.) But pandas don't really have these sorts of tricks...so instead they just consume tens of pounds of bamboo per day and poo poo out whatever material that isn't immediately digestible. For them it's just quantity over quality, but even then the quality is sufficiently bad that pandas tend to be pretty sedentary. Which, of course, is part of why they're such a popular animal in zoos.

Despite all this, keeping them around may not be such a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, they've still overspecialized themselves into a corner, but some folks have suggested that panda conservation in the wild would also indirectly protect other native but vulnerable species in China.

In other news, how long until you guys pick up the Plasma Beam? I recall that trick being particularly easy to pull off on the NTSC version.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Carbon dioxide posted:

How the hell did pandas survive this long, anyway?
Most likely because they don't have any natural predators. There are a number of animals which overspecialized like this in relatively isolated environments, and which are perfectly fine for those environments. It's only recently that humans have spread all over the world in such numbers and inflicted varying degrees of ecological shock. In fact, before he died Douglas Adams co-wrote a book about this called Last Chance to See.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






That Pirate Trooper encounter in the portal room is vicious on Hard Mode/Trilogy [spoilered]. (Enemies take half damage against most attacks, excepting certain scripted events, and deal double damage.) You've still got the collection of four enemies to deal with, but since the swap to dark Troopers is timed you're likely to have three or (:stonk:) four Dark Pirate Troopers on your rear end. And they hit like trucks, because of course they do; on Normal/Trilogy Veteran they still knocked off a full energy tank from FPZero's health bar.

Echoes on Hard Mode/Trilogy [spoilered] can be balls-to-the-wall :tviv: at times, but I encourage folks to try it because it's so rewarding to eventually destroy everything that's previously been smacking you against a wall.

Edit: Added notes for the Trilogy difficulty names.

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 16, 2016

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






ikanreed posted:

He wasn't playing on normal. He said (paraphrased) normal was for chumps. He's on Veteran.
My guess is that Veteran is comparable to the original release's Normal, since FPZero mentioned that the Trilogy version of Normal "is actually easier than the original release", and hence my point still stands mostly intact. :colbert:

But to clarify, Prime 1 and 2 (both GC releases) had Normal Mode and Hard Mode, where the latter functioned in the manner I noted above. Prime 3 instead had Normal/Veteran/Hypermode difficulties with the implication that the "Normal" difficulty was actually an easy mode. Veteran was then the game's normal difficulty, while [spoilered] was the game's hard difficulty. (Yes, the difficulty name is itself a small spoiler. No need to worry, we'll get there soon enough.)

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






If they hadn't barred him, Inafune likely would have made something that wasn't so unrefined as MN9. The man seems to be one of those folks who really needs editorial oversight to critique and channel his vision, not unlike George Lucas in that respect. (And of course this seems to be an endemic issue in Japanese corporate culture, that when someone gets enough authority no one else connected to a project is really willing to say no.)

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 19, 2016

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Did they change the Grenchler hitbox for the Trilogy rerelease, or do they just require some precise aim that wasn't necessary on the original release? I found them to be tough but fair, considering that unlike most enemies in Prime 1 they actually have an appreciable amount of health. (In general Prime 1 enemies were undertuned.) In particular, their health values are about 5 missiles on GC Normal/Veteran or 10 missiles on GC Hard/[Secret Difficulty], or 1 -> 2 Super Missiles.

Gear Router posted:

That's kinda slow though, the quickest way to deal with dark pirate commandos is the charged dark beam and missile combo.
:agreed: I used to have issues with them until I tried this, and it's so efficient that now I can't imagine doing anything else.

I never noticed before, but now that I've listened to it the theme for the Dark Pirate Commandos sounds a fair bit like the boss theme for the Torvus guardian.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






C-Euro posted:

I seem to recall that they actually toned this guy down in the Trilogy version compared to the original release, but I couldn't tell you what they changed.
Free aiming would certainly help, since the Boost Guardian is still vulnerable to damage when in black puddle form. But regardless the Boost Guardian is one of two bosses in this game that will stymie players who are too far into one playstyle; in particular, the Boost Guardian requires you to be rather aggressive at dealing damage and at forming him out of his Boost Ball/gray puddle form. (There's another boss later on which requires the opposite approach.) On GC Normal, you actually want to get hit by the Boost Ball form just to make it slow down long enough to then force it into gray puddle form with bombs.

Luckily, he doesn't have much health (about six charged Light Beam shots on GC Normal) and his arena will drop 100-health items whenever he destroys a pillar, so as long as you're prepared to get in his face and blast him he's not terribly crazy on GC Normal. On GC Hard he's a different story, but mostly because you've got more issues trying to outrace his amped-up damage. In fact, you can kill him in less than thirty seconds if you use free aiming to shove the Arm Cannon right in the Boost Guardian's black puddle form.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Bruceski posted:

The good news is that almost all the bad things about Prime 2 are confined to the Bog.
As much as Prime 2 is my favorite in the trilogy, I can't disagree.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






KieranWalker posted:

You're correct. Starting a new game from a finished file keeps the scan data, so you can get any you missed the first time.

Also a minor caveat: Whatever that giant armored spider-thing is that Metroid Prime was riding in, that came along with the phazon meteor. Metroid Prime itself was already on Tallon IV though, according to Retro. Seems the Chozo had a few of the little bastards sitting around in a lab on Tallon IV for some reason or another. Prime was the (un)lucky(?) one which survived the meteor impact and got bizarrely mutated by all the phazon exposure.
Unless later games retconned things, in which case we'd talk about circumstances as they came up, Metroid Prime was not native to Tallon IV. Rather, it came with the Phazon meteor that struck Tallon IV decades from Prime 1's events. The Chozo referred to it as "the Worm" ("Born from parasites, nurtured in a poisoned womb..." and "From the stars it came...") and in turn referred to Phazon as "the Great Poison". Similarly, the armored shell and weapons systems were either mutations it developed after encountering the Space Pirates or materiel it outright stole like the parasite it is. :goonsay:

Prime 2, like I've said before, is my favorite in the trilogy. In particular I'm the sort of person who won't play many games but will get deeply into a limited selection, which is why at a guess I probably have a month or few of playtime in World of Warcraft. Anyway, because I will get deeply into one game or another my preferences for replay tend towards things like combat and other gameplay for which the charm doesn't wear off all that quickly. And Prime 2's combat is probably the best in the series; you have a variety of toys to play with, most are available very early, and none of them really end up eclipsing each other.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Y-Hat posted:

Naturally, there are no multi-scan bosses in Prime 3.
There's at least one I can think of, but regardless Prime 3 did cut down on the amount of potentially missed lore from 1 and 2.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






I wouldn't quite say "inhuman monsters", but regardless PotO's female parts are for obvious reasons written for operatic sopranos. The musical is basically an exemplar of a wider issue that the majority of songs are written for the highest vocal ranges within a given sex (soprano or tenor), so even heroic characters who sing at a lower range like Sarastro from The Magic Flute (bass) are relegated to being supporting characters. Regardless, an alto range is nothing to be scoffed at and can still be used so long as you determine how to tweak the relevant song. If Amanda Palmer or Chhom Nimol can still be perfectly competent despite the fact that they clearly sing alto, then that should not on its own stop anyone else. (Disclaimer: I have zero singing ability or formal training in music. Mostly I just listen to weird poo poo and pay a bunch of attention to opera.)

Edit: Somehow I forgot about Figaro as a bass protagonist in opera, but I maintain that he is an exception to the rule.

On the topic of the LP, the Alpha Blogg is basically the bane of my existence on GC Hard mode, since much of the time if you want to deal damage then you have to trade hits. And if you die then you have to fully proceed through one of the underwater areas again. At least the next boss is really quick so long as you pay attention.

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Sep 1, 2016

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Bruceski posted:

Wasn't Sarah Brightman one of only a handful of people who could hit those notes? I recall hearing it was a case where the music was written for the singer, rather than vice-versa.

Personally, I was in choir in middle and early high school (around age 13-15, for non-muricans) so when I sing casually these days I instinctively go for the high tenor notes that used to be in my range. It doesn't end well.
I wouldn't be surprised by that, but from a cursory glance I can't find evidence explicitly saying so. Also it probably helped that at the time of production she was married to Andrew Lloyd Webber. That's nothing against her actual singing ability (which is very good), but I'm guessing that it was the deciding factor for selecting her instead of some other equally qualified candidate.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Super Missiles are normally a good source of damage against Dark Samus, as she doesn't have any inherent ability to block them as with regular missiles. (This likely wasn't apparent due to FP using free aim and keeping his distance at the same time, which messes up just about everything unless one is a really good shot.) Indeed they're what I used to take her down on my first GC Hard Mode clear, as just about any other option (I hadn't tried Dark Beam shots then) wasn't fast enough to keep up with her own sources of hard-to-dodge damage.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Tofu Survivor posted:

Slowbeef_wrestles_with_the_grapple_lasso.avi

Is it really that bad though, in all honesty? I haven't played Corruption because I absolutely can't stand the Wii or motion control in general. If it wasn't for my aunt gifting me one for a birthday I wouldn't have one at all.
There's a Wrong Way and a Right Way to do it. The Wiimote works best if you're either moving directly towards/away from the sensor bar or instead parallel to it. In the case of the grapple lasso, you need to point your Wiimote directly at the screen, and sufficient lateral motion will muck things up. I've actually managed to practice the game with all its motion controls in just a small Virtualdub window barely four feet from me, and the increased need for precision really helped me to tighten up my control with the Wii's controller.

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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






On the topic of pressure cookers and other cooking explosions waiting to happen in the wrong hands, my father engineered his own hilarious disaster years ago. His usual morning routine, back when he was still getting paid to work*, was to heat up his morning oatmeal in the microwave while he got a shower. This wouldn't be necessary for the sorts of instant oatmeal you'd dispense out of a package, but my parents are nothing if not latter-day hippies and thus my father's breakfast was the real stuff which took ten whole minutes to cook. Of course, cooking anything that's not a turkey** in a microwave tends to heat things very quickly at full power, so he'd have to set the power level to 4 out of 10 to prevent any comparisons to Ghostbusters 2.

One day, he forgot to turn the power setting down. So when my mother and I entered the kitchen to grab breakfast an hour or two later, after my father had left for work, we found the microwave...open. The inside was smeared with various shades of brown or black, with a collection of small glass shards where you'd expect the glass turntable to be. And the quart-sized Pyrex container commonly used to make my father's oatmeal was similarly, well, no longer a Pyrex container. Honestly, I still would like to have been there for what was in all certainty a steam explosion, but I can settle for never letting the man live it down.

*The running joke about my parents retiring is that they didn't actually stop working, but just stopped getting paychecks to do so. These days they spend a lot of time gardening and/or farming.
**One Thanksgiving, my parents' oven refused to work. They then proceeded to the next best option and cooked everything in the microwave, which ended up fine after translating various times and power settings.

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