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Overall the game accomplishes what it sets out to present: a pretty chill experience. I really like it because it's got a good Pheonix Wright Visual Novel ratio to gameplay and text going on. Enough Gameplay (even if it's pretty barebones) to keep you involved and all of the characters having their own stories keeps things fresh. It never gets too confusing since they're all presented organically too. Also one of the references in this game made me laugh for a solid minute, even though I only properly knew it from reading the Dominions 3 LP with buildscharacter's excellent diplomacy updates. CJacobs posted:I like this game! It's only really interesting if you are a fan of visual novels because otherwise you'll get antsy reading the dialogue and won't want to sit through it. It's not a very good game to do a video LP of, it's more of a screenshot LP kinda deal. The game poses some pretty interesting questions about sexuality (in a jokey way at first, but later on it's less jokey about it) that I found fun to mull over. This game is definitely a visual novel and should be treated as such. Part of the reason I was able to enjoy this so much is that Jill and I meshed together pretty solidly so I could really get into being her bartender-self. I had a lot of fun remembering how people liked their orders and what their individual tastes were and had a bit more fun with the less-specific orders (alright you memetic annoyance, you wanna get drunk!? I'LL DRUNK YOU OUT) Also: Zenithe posted:As far as I'm aware, no. I have yet to get particularly far through the game, and other aspects may be introduced later but I seriously doubt it though. What is the reference by the way? Everything that Gillian teaches you in the intro comes up. How to make drinks Big (and what drinks are already Big,) that Karmotrine is the ingredient that determines alchoholic content etc. The game part is more of a memory/interpretation game than a mixing one, since while you don't have to memorize the recipes, you do have to remember quite a few other things. Jill's hints help though. Dareon posted:Ah, it's one of those games. I'm not being dismissive, there are some very good offerings in the sexual exploration subgenre (Although it seems like that's 80% of VNs, I can only name three off the top of my head that aren't), but it's very easy for them to disappear up their own rear end. As CJacobs said, this game doesn't do that. It keeps itself grounded very well partially because all everyone does is just talk about stuff and partially because everyone has their own notes. It's not all sexual exploration all the time (aside from Donovan's proclivity-heavy comments he's mostly concerned with his news business as an example.) EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 21:24
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NeruVolpi posted:In papers please, when (spoiler) I crack a big smile. Similar things happen here and are similarly smile worthy. The game is successful with creating characters but it has the visual novel problem of that taking a significant amount of time. The relevant event in Papers Please happens in like, what the third day? Most of the good character defining moments start to happen after day 7 in this IIRC. MachuPikacchu posted:I like the aesthetic and the soundtrack, but yeah, this game has way too much badly written text. The conversations last ages and veer between moods almost at random. It also bugs me how the devs are trying to handle mature themes in the most immature way possible. I've only played through the game once so I only have that playthrough's route to judge on but there's only one character in the game that I could say was completely immature about the themes of the game. The badly written text is a malus but conversation length is actually pretty good (Jill's break time really helps with this) plus Donovan and Ingram are two of the game's weaker characters, Ingram the worse of the two. Donovan's a good introductory character in that he helps set the atmosphere and expectations for what cyber-bartending is going to be like, but he doesn't grow that much. Other characters are a bit more organic in their moods, with the conversation changing usually with a drink request or other similar organic breakpoint.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:20
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The game has problems related to it's format and pacing but it's still a visual novel game on par with any of the mainline Pheonix Wright (haven't played the 3DS ones.)Pavlov posted:If something only gets good half way through, doesn't that make it 50% bad? In character driven writing, if you pick up the book and read the first few chapters to get introduced to the characters, decide you don't care about them and put it down, you've barely scratched 5% of the story. That's the feeling I get when I read/hear about most of the negative reviews this game got. That doesn't mean that the story is bad, it means that it failed to grab them for whatever reason (the majority of which are subjective and therefor not a good indication of it's actual quality) and that's fine especially when tackling the subjects that the game does. Vall Hall A is very character driven.
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Jul 19, 2016 04:24
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NeruVolpi posted:The fact that it is character driven but can not make me even make me pay attention to the characters is a fault by itself. In your Persona example, you chose not to pursue Bebe and thus did not gain any of the gameplay (and story) benefits of increasing that social link, which can lead to a game over because Persona's a pretty difficult game and wants you to break it over your knee. You can do that missing a social link or two, but it's harder. The game's format is a more pro-active approach to it's character stories because you have to explore in order to find them in the first place. Vall Hall A's is reactive and it makes sense. You're a bartender. You don't get to choose your customers, but you can choose how you serve them. Serving them poorly (or lots of alcohol) to make them go away faster means you don't get their tips and flawless service bonus to spend on things Jill/you will want. There is a game over/bad end state with this: Jill's rent. Thus I had no problem paying attention to most of the characters because I could relate to Jill's predicament. For the other characters I only found two of them mostly forgettable/ignore-worthy (because they are a pile of references wrapped in an attention-grabbing package with nothing else to them) but then again the themes the game explores don't put me off like they do others.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:08
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EclecticTastes posted:I could go on about the awkward flow of the conversations and the poor judgment on display at attempting to address content they clearly weren't equipped to deal with, but suffice it to say that this game is badly-written, and one would be better served picking up literally anything made by Christine Love instead. Then again I hate Analogue/Hate Plus' format because it bores me to tears (that I need to keep my eyes from bleeding from all the text. Hooray for LP's of those games and for other things to look at here!) Hyung-ae and Mute are bland stereotypes until you get to know them. Every character I've ever seen in a VN, Ace Attorney included, has been a bland stereotype until you get to know them. Stereotypes that have made me groan, that I've hated, that I've found annoying have been characters that I have become excited about and loved or appreciated because of the layers that lay underneath. Sei is one of the better characters in the game but her arc is tied to the background events in it, and we've only just been introduced to the setting. NeruVolpi posted:I wont blame you or bash you for actually getting interested in the characters presented in this game. That's fine, tastes differ. It's a game I like enough for me to delve into why I like it so much. It does matter to pay attention to what people say, especially about their orders. There are times when your only hint is 'wait what was that one thing that they liked?' Then there's some that caused me my sole missed Flawless Service bonus 
EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 02:03
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Dorothy's the biggest indicator of the game's 'I'm just going to toss you into the deep end of these controversial themes and let you wallow about before I teach you how to swim' problem. Good news, she gets better! Bad news, it's partly acclimatization to her. One thing that I like that the game does (that would come out a lot better if Dorothy wasn't so in your face) is the subtle contrast it displays between Dorothy and Kira Miki. Both are robots that do pretty much the same thing (make people happy) but their outlooks contrast pretty hard. Dorothy's more worldly and realistic, while Kira is more naive and idealistic.
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Jul 20, 2016 08:10
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Pyrogenesis posted:Also, are there objective reasons for a story being good? GimmickMan posted:On the other hand, when an idol thinks the people going through her underwear are harmless I lose any confidence I might have had in the writers. People have weird hobbies so I can totally buy a robot idol collecting underwear. Jill's inner thought lampshading how unusual it is and Kira being completely oblivious to exactly how different someone rummaging through an underwear collection and a liquor collection is really highlights her naivete. EclecticTastes posted:Yes, and we're still allowed to examine the subject of the game's writing being creepy and gross. Nothing we say negates the game's existence, there's nobody playing the game, watching words fade from the screen with each one we type. This terrible game exists, and, sadly, will continue to exist long after we're done making fun of it.  Terrible is a word I reserve for pieces of trash like Daikatana, Sonic 2006, JJ Abrams Star Trek and Bubsy. This game is better than that.As for it's writing being creepy and gross, my mind was more concerned about figuring out what standards and mores the setting had to make Dorothy's existence allowable and plausible, along with Kira Miki's complete unconcern with Stalkers breaking into her house to make her breakfast. It does go too far by pressing some particularly sensitive buttons too quickly and that's a failing of the writing.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:44
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ModeWondershot posted:TLDR: This game is about how people can be simultaneously flawed and all right, and that is something I thought was good. If you want a novel that explores similar themes perhaps better in a similar setting, then Oryx and Crake is worthwhile. CJacobs posted:I think the real problem with dorothy's characterization is that the game tries to have its cake and eat it too with regards to how it portrays her- they tried to combine making her the ultimate weirdo player's waifu, while also trying to use her character to show off how bonkers the game's future-world is about human (or in this case non-human) sexuality. In doing so, they kinda screwed themselves out of whatever point they were trying to make and just ended up with a character who most people will be creeped out by. I agree. She has some good moments later in the game which I like her for but I completely understand why people don't care enough for her to see those events. At the end of the day, this is a game I would heartily recommend to people but I can't do so without a disclaimer. (Thanks Dorothy )
EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 02:16
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Sazero posted:*fake edit*: saying this game examines anything is giving it too much credit. shibbotech posted:Honestly, as we get into it more, certain aspects of this game stand out as great positives. The writing is just awful, the character designs are a little wonky... Beyond that? This could have been a really solid game. The backgrounds and music are there but it just trips over its own feet trying to be deep. I've gone from outright hating it to just feeling dejected. The talent and assets were there, they just cocked up the "novel" part of "visual novel". There's part of your problem there: you're expecting this to be deeper than it's trying to be. Remember that this is supposed to be a chill game. While the subjects it tackles are pretty deep it never struck me as anything more than an interesting take on common ideas/controversies. The deepest conversation in the game, I felt, is about how everyone acts in their daily life whether they intend to or not.
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Jul 23, 2016 09:54
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Sazero posted:You're flipflopping between "This game is deep" and "Lol it's just a chill game bruh". NeruVolpi posted:Point in question : good writing means development, empathy , and simpathy. The game does have all three of these, but the 'in media res slice of life' start muddles it quite a bit. Also I have a feeling there's a serious culture gap in how the bartending is handled since it seems to me to be more reminiscent of Japanese bars where the bartender isn't just there to serve you drinks but also to be a conversationalist. (I flashed back to Yakuza bar scenes quite a bit during the game.)
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Jul 23, 2016 22:42
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Rent too. It being the second thing makes sense within the framework (since rent is usually monthly) but there's not enough info on the subscription to make it seem worth what the game throws your way in the first week.
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Jul 24, 2016 05:24
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YOTC posted:I came here to talk about how I actually enjoyed this game.  Vall Hall A does some things right and deserves credit for it.It also does things wrong and unfortunately those come first.
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Jul 24, 2016 06:11
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HMS Boromir posted:Also you can call trap sprung on this but I used to hang out in some of the more unpleasant parts of the internet in my teenage years and I'd like to point out that the "DFC" in Dorothy's model number absolutely stands for "Delicious Flat Chest".  (Hazy memory corollary: Kira Miki has a similar model designation.) Lord_Magmar posted:To be fair with the whole built to look like a twelve year old I can sort of see a reason for it. They're not emotionally/mentally mature unless they pass 3 tests, as we've been told, at which point they're given an adult body, so the young look is "meant" to be a deterrent from attacking them and they have special nano-bots so that if someone does attack the immature robot they get jailed. However from what I've seen it seems Dorothy completed those tests and then decided that she wanted to specifically target an audience as a prostitute, because she can make them pay more for what is presumably a completely legal way to work out their own disturbed sexual desires, she also just happens to enjoy sex too which explains why she's making a job out of it. If you remove the whole 'appears younger than they are' trope and her explicit intent on capitalizing that trope from Dorothy she fits in with a lot of my experiences with people who are open and accepting about their sexuality. The reactions to people around her support this in that while friendly, she can easily make them uncomfortable. But then you've got the trope layer on top of that which just makes things worse. (It's ok Dorothy, I still like you for who you are. Lets just be friends. No not those kind of friends.)
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Jul 24, 2016 21:14
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shibbotech posted:Maybe the writing gets better and they just stuffed up the worldbuilding in the first chapter. Maybe it's consistently awful and there are just a few gems in the trash heap. I can't tell for sure. Frankly after the last episode I am surprised at the lack of catgirl japes/observations in the thread. Then again Stella is pretty mellow overall.
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Jul 25, 2016 02:57
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shibbotech posted:See, I could be convinced of that in a stream environment or something. If you're into just soaking in the themes and conversations without getting analytical about the actual structure of the writing, I could see where some positive reviews are coming from. I don't play VNs so for me the actual line-by-line quality of the writing is the most important thing that I'd look for in order to keep my attention, and this just didn't captivate me on that front. Coupled with how heavyhanded it's dealing with the "deep" themes and it's just not my bag. One one hand it's stilted, on the other it's organic. shibbotech posted:I'm actually running an LP right now of Trauma Center: Under the Knife, so I have that exposure (and I absolutely adore the game, even over a decade later). I've heard some really good things about both Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton, and I rather enjoy the occasional puzzle. I just gravitate more toward actiony stuff in general, lately a lot of shooters or ARPGs. I'm definitely looking for more casual stuff I can snag for the DS/3DS though, for downtime at work and all that. Y-Hat posted:So is the design for Stella designed off of CATS, the "All Your Base" guy/video game villain? Specifically, the weird eye she has? Because if so, props to the game designers. EclecticTastes posted:I would also personally recommend Analogue: A Hate Story and its sequel, Hate Plus, though I'm not sure they're quite as good for someone coming in totally new.
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Jul 25, 2016 21:15
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Art Von Delay is the reference that made me laugh for a really long time when playing this. I never even watched Seinfeld that much either. Streaming-Chan The best things about her are side effects from her visit (the background text is generally humerous even if it repeats fairly quickly.) I went the route of plastering her to unconsciousness via a big version of the super-alchoholic drink, giving her something like 18 units of karmotrine and knocked her right out. Further conversations in the day have Jill tell people to be careful what they say because she's still streaming while K.O'd.Finally the Bank Incident's been introduced. It's the first real 'arc' of the actual game and where the whole 'second hand storytelling' aspect of the writing sort of takes off.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:51
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Really Pants posted:Nothing is ever going to happen where Jill can personally see it or do anything about it, is it. Pavlov posted:I'll give it to the game, her knocked out actually kind of a cute touch. When I said 'knock her the heck out' I meant 'knock her the heck out.' You got more dialogue out of her here than I did. I'm not entirely certain exactly how much has changed with not knocking her out (there's background non-convo stuff that I know will change but other spoilery stuff that I'm not sure about.) But to actually answer the question, my hazy recollection has someone getting in trouble for modifying/using her VR model in a certain way with the end result of Shining Fingered getting on their case and booting/banning them from it's service. (Since the model is a symbol of their partnership and whatnot.)
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Jul 28, 2016 01:49
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Y-Hat posted:But as it is, the most memorable moments are the lolibots and streamers who offer VR sex, and it's not memorable in a good way. The result is that it's widely loved by creeps and not much else. Although the second one may be in jeopardy. I'll mention it when we get there. Zenithe posted:Having played more of the game for recording purposes, I will indeed say that certain parts further along do get better, mostly as you get to know your PC. Maybe introducing your PCs depth after say, discussing the intricacies of how your universes AI bone was not the correct order?
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Jul 28, 2016 05:36
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dmboogie posted:I can totally get why you'd think Dorothy's inclusion in the game at all is shittily handled and tasteless, but as a character she's really trying just to make the best out of her lovely situation and the crux of her character development has literally nothing to do with the sex stuff anyway. Anoia posted:It's frustrating how this game has kernels of good ideas that are just hammered into paste. Y-Hat posted:If the game were willing to poke some amount of fun at the audience it's appealing to, then it would be much better. Instead, it's giving them everything that they want.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:19
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Really Pants posted:That's a reasonably competitive price compared to other cyberpunk games, like the Deus Ex series.  ) I know I got my moneys worth from Vall Hall A.Really Pants posted:I have no idea whether to count this as strike #512, or a small mercy Pavlov posted:This game doesn't seem to have LGBT characters as much as it has lesbians in it. That seems to be more about shipping anime girls together than it is inclusion.
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Jul 28, 2016 20:24
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Skippy Granola posted:Thanks for helping me not get tricked by reviews. Game Informer fuckin loved it. Nowhere near the same amount of explosions though. Pavlov posted:It's not really that strange though. A lot of people like fapping to lesbians so they turn up in anime stuff all the time. Hell, there's practically a whole anime subgenre that's just entire casts of ambiguously gay waifus. If a gay guy showed up I'd be surprised. It actually has more guys than I expected for a game about waifus, it's not like there aren't any. Right, but to use your phrasing, there's nothing really to fap to. Like, the nature of the relationships is handled subtly and tastefully, compared to numerous examples which actively pander their groupings to fans. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 00:00
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Zenithe posted:Wait, I'm confused, is it more like Michael Bay or Vladimir Nabokov? Pavlov posted:Yar I'm beginning to think that the fact that you don't think people are fapping to this game, and don't think the game encourages this, is the root of why you don't get our problems with it. But if there's author intent for people to fap to this, it's so insanely-minutely subtle that it's way more likely for fans to have inserted that intent themselves. Yeah, Dorothy's pretty badly mishandled. Even then there are plenty of clues in the writing that while sex is a topic, sex isn't an intent. #1: Character reactions to her are generally uncomfortable, polite acceptance or indifference. #2: In direct contrast to Streaming-Chan, she doesn't openly shill her services. Like, she advertises that she is a sex worker, but she doesn't say 'if you wanna do it with me, here's my rates' like Streaming-Chan does. #3: She remarks that her clientele are weird, with specific examples (Ingram's weirdness, the camo thing, etc.) These are things that indicate to me that the author want's me to be thinking about this as a topic, not fapping to it.
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Jul 29, 2016 01:35
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Really Pants posted:Dorothy has already made this offer on multiple occasions And yes, she does complain about her clientele. Bonus: it's also a wider indictment of people who see her that way dmboogie posted:Like, there's a scene coming up soon that's basically what sold my soul to this game, and if the general consensus is still the same afterwards it's probably safe to say that we are looking for completely different things in our media and we'll never see eye to eye on this game. That's cool! We're probably thinking about the same event and my opinion mirrors yours on it. Art Von Delay hooked me in (it was a really good laugh) and further events cemented my like for this game, despite all of it's flaws (even Dorothy's mishandling.)
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Jul 29, 2016 02:52
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Rigged Death Trap posted:On the other side of the pacific: This is intriguing. Really Pants posted:Catherine is great, and has a far superior Boss. This, however, I could not get into. For all of it's good balancing and production the block puzzles just bored the everliving heck out of me.
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Jul 29, 2016 21:10
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Covok posted:Also, while it's not right-wing, Dorothy is definitely a voice (strawman? whatever you call a character written solely to prove your political/social/etc. stance correct) for one of those creepy lolicon otakus who are like "no, me sexualizing children isn't creepy because its a fictional character and she likes it and she is actually 1000 years old and I can differentiate fantasy from reality and I don't believe that enjoying this indirectly supports the child sex industry since it shows the existence of demand and I don't care about all those stories of lolicons getting arrested for being actual pedos." That's messed up in its own right. Yeah, I enjoy Dorothy for her character, not what she is. If the authors hadn't pushed the giant underaged button with her, she'd be fine. But they did. Thus, so many problems. Really Pants posted:They chose those terms because memes. That's it. There's no hidden depth here. Actually if the Of course, as standard for this game, the lesson/statement I get out of the coming events is probably very different from what other people will get because of that whole slant and would have been served better without having that slant. The  )Edit: ahahahahah hello word filter. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 22:22
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EclecticTastes posted:The name you're thinking of is "Dolores" actually, I had to double-check Wikipedia to make sure there wasn't some additional layer of horror to this shitshow. I think "Dorothy" is a reference to the much cooler and not-at-all-creepy android girl from The Big O (which involves a giant robot called Big O, not anything else one might infer from that title), R. Dorothy Wainwright. Dorothy's color scheme is similar to Big O's Dorothy, so it feels to me like they made a reference except the two have nothing in common about their characters but the writer is A. A huge weeb and B. A hack, so I wouldn't put it past him. Sazero posted:So what I'm saying is: Have you ever faked an orgasm? What is fake? Baby don't 'gasm me; don't 'gasm me, no more~ EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 23:08
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Anoia posted:I'll go ahead and ruin this for you: her name is Dorothy Haze, a la Dolores Haze. EclecticTastes posted:
Gotta make mistakes to learn from them. Now if only people would stop blissfully ignoring/forgetting them in the first place... (Hint hint reviewers.)
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Jul 29, 2016 23:56
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Skippy Granola posted:Oh I get it, it's just meant to be edgy and off-putting to make you think, maaaaan.  as a barbershop quartet. And now I have 'God Only Knows' going through my head from Bioshock Infinite. Which, to advance discussion, is another game that handles an uncomfortable idea (pre-emancipation racism and segregation) better than this game handles it's uncomfortable idea.dmboogie posted:look you guys have valid complaints but this right here is nitpicky bullshit. they aren't supposed to be literal knights! naming an organization "knights" to convey the idea of the romanticised image of a knight is a common thing that fiction does and is in no way unique to this game! Sazero posted:C+ troll effort. Don't fake an orgasm, you'll be seen through immediatedly. 
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Jul 30, 2016 00:06
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Rigged Death Trap posted:B:I doesn't handle much of it's anything very well. At best I thought it was inoffensive and straightforward. That's about as good as you can get with unpleasant ideas short of writing another 'Old Tom's Cabin.'
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Jul 30, 2016 00:16
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Covok posted:What, then, is the appeal of one where you can't change the plot, just the occasional dialogue and, rarely perform a minigame? I can see the paper's please elements if the minigame came up more often or was more complicated, but does not getting the flawless bonus lead to a failure state? Can you lose? If not, then the minigame kind of loses any point, doesn't it? Ace Attorney proves that an unchanging plot with a basic minigame with only occasional dialogue changes works, so yes. It's based on the strength of the writing, though I maintain that even with it's flaws Vall Hall A stands with mainline Ace Attorney games. And yes, Vall Hall A has a failure/bad ending state: Jill's rent. You've got a bit of leeway but if you consistently do poorly and miss the bonus you'll get that bad ending state (it's about 4-5 days worth of the bonus IIRC, which somewhat mirror's Ace Attorney's 5 penalty mark system.)
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Jul 30, 2016 00:26
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Mraagvpeine posted:This is just a guess about the 17 drink, but when you click on a drink, you see that it is a number out of 24. Maybe that's it? Also, the game music is a little louder than the commentary. No, that's not it, that was my guess and it cost me that flawless bonus. Virgillio is an rear end. It's the number of ingredients in the drink he wants. EclecticTastes posted:What pisses me off about this game (aside from all the other things that have pissed me off thus far) is how many good things it drags down with it through references. (...) It's also kind of a bad move for a work to constantly remind the audience about better works, because it leads to unfavorable comparisons. Good things can be subjective, I find G Gundam starts off strong and then gets weaker as it goes along, while this game does the opposite. While it can lead to unfavorable comparisions, clever inclusion of references can enhance what the author is going for. If anything, Vall Hall A is over saturated with them, which brings on the unfavorable comparisons because they happen so often that you think about them too much.
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Jul 31, 2016 05:33
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Good lord, I knew I was smart sticking to the one-line reviews of this game to check my interest for it but this is painfully smart. One nitpick and an affirmation: Jobbo_Fett posted:None of the characters you come across in Valhalla matter, because the story explicitly implies they don't. You're not a hotshot loose cannon saving the world, and you're not even sure the world needs saving! So does anyone or anything matter? I guess that's probably too nihilistic an approach, but I see the characters in this game as "trying to be interesting, no matter how." Some characters are "interesting" because they start talking about sex, panties, or hawking their livestream subscription fees, but never would I go so far as to say any of them "matter". They matter insomuch as they are characters with whom Jill interacts and has relationships with (friends, passing acquaintances, brushes with stardom etc.) This is important and a key part of the overall story. I would heartily recommend this game to anyone, but I can't without disclaimers. Agree that it's not a must play, but it has merits that are worth experiencing, even with it's rough start.
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Aug 1, 2016 09:59
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Haven't played Gone Home because it sounds really boring and all of the previews don't pique my interest at all. I have played Firewatch though and I do agree that it's better than Vall Hall A. Similar high production values but the dialogue is way better (which is really important considering it's pretty much the meat of the game.) It has it's own problems and nitpicks. Drakenel posted:i dont understand i just wanna fight the boss, why is this called a visual novel and its still talking at me??? Who the heck is this shodan chick and why is she getting up in my grill while I blow up kamikaze zombie and hack some vending machines!?
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Aug 2, 2016 20:32
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Zenithe posted:Three. 1/3 done I can see why someone might have thought this day would have been pivotal (it's the first major departure from the gameplay format) but it's not. It's setting up things. Regarding dialogue choices, Vall Hall A's method of doing them feels more conductive to organically experiencing a story. Yes it's nebulous and non-defined, but that's the point. I find it far more engaging (in terms of player agency) than picking a phrase of words from several other phrases of words. Quite often what I actually want to say at one dialogue choice is several down the line because seriously, I've seen these plot threads before, I want to say the thing that would skip this entire mini-arc, but no, I can't. Oh boy it's a branch now I have to come back for 100% completion and ARGH. Meanwhile, I actually get to insert my own thoughts with drink choice. Finally, as someone who doesn't drink but frequently goes to dinners/social gatherings where people do (and is an observer/eavesdropper because of my lack of drinking,) Dana and Jill's conversation fits right in with the inane, boring and random conversations that people have when they get socially drunk. Even comparing it to your commentary. The pacing, tempo, and funnily enough, structure were pretty close.
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Aug 5, 2016 09:53
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Anoia posted:You have really boring friends. I stand by my assertion that people who like this game understand neither human interaction nor drinking. I fully admit to only partially understanding drinking because most of my experiences with drunks has either been a net negative or neutral experience (loosening of inhibitions is neutral, drunken sillyness/stupidity has rarely been amusing because cops are a pretty big killjoy and most of what I witnessed from people learning of their drunken escapades has been some form of regret.) Really Pants posted:How does hiding your choices give you more agency, or let you add your own thoughts, or somehow make the branches more convenient? None of this makes sense. Choices only matter in games where they either have actual meaning or little-to-no meaning at all. Actual Meaningful choices allow you to drive and affect the story, while Little-to-No Meaning choices let you add personality to it. Both are forms of player agency. Most VN's have a simple dialogue choice system, where your agency is capped by however many choices you can make at a given time. Usually this around 2-3 in the standard 'yes, no, other' format, often combining the two types of agency. Vall Hall A follows the same format for it's criteria (give them what they want, give them what they don't want, get them stonking drunk) but you have 20-something drink options to choose from. You have the same 'directing the story' agency, but tons more of 'adding personality' agency. This is what I mean by the choice system allowing me to add my own thoughts to it. Hiding the choice criteria is a psychology trick that changes the meaning of the choices presented. It's usually intended to make people more honest in their choices rather than trying to game the system (some people will do so no matter what) and that honesty reinforces the agency. By attempting to hide the choice criteria it tricked my brain away from the 'game the system' mode it tends to fall into with other VNs, increasing my enjoyment. This makes branches more convenient because I don't feel the need to seek them out for completion's sake (which would normally be very frustrating.) Vall Hall A's ending structure helps with this too.
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Aug 5, 2016 22:06
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Covok posted:Cyperpunk seems to be having an odd resurgence in popularity. Which both perplexes me and doesn't surprise me as I can see why people would be drawn to it while also thinking "weren't we done with the 'punk' craze twenty years ago?" Anoia posted:The growing trend I'm noticing of bad cyberpunk themed games with undeservedly good soundtracks is starting to unnerving me. Anoia posted:And the explanations are still bullshit. Take Ingram. His excuse of "he's a jerk because he had a daughter who was taken and she died" is the weakest piece of poo poo attempt to round out a jerk character in the book, but I will give them points for accidentally landing on the reason why people stay in abusive relationships with jerks like him. "but he loves his kid!!" big loving deal Explanations are explanations, it'd be even more BS if they weren't there. I agree that Ingram's one of the weakest characters in the game (he's abrasive and doesn't have enough screentime to get past that) and I disagree about Donovan, since his sexcapade stuff fits in with his character (it'd be out of place if he didn't talk about sex as much in the first place.) Dorothy has a single shake where she works out: the pedo BS is just as unnecessary to her as it is to the rest of the game. The depth could have been worse: it could have been all of the time AND poorly implemented
EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:19
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Zenithe posted:I know it's not what you mean, but do you seriously see this as a positive thing? I haven't seen enough to know where her character arc goes, but if it is 100% unrelated to her being established as a sex worker then it goes from "OK, this creepiness may be artistically justified as the story develops" to "OK, they included a 10 year old looking sex worker for no credible reason whatsoever". It's positive in that it removes the biggest controversial aspect of the game. If Dorothy is the fat albatross that's dragging the game down, then the 'chose to appear under-aged to get ahead in the sex business' aspect of her character is the rusty iron chain around the albatross's neck, dragging it down. There's enough development of her character that I can say the author was going for the former statement, but it's not enough to justify them pushing the pedo BS button. If you remove that then the justifications match up a lot more. Her being an enthusiastic sex worker robot is still fetish bait but it's way more palatable without the under aged appearance part.
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Aug 7, 2016 09:13
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The Genre has been widened significantly after Professor Layton and Pheonix Wright showed that adding even the most basic of gameplay segments to an excellent story enhances the experience. Before a VN was just that, a whole lot of words and some pictures to go along them. Maybe some dialogue choices of word-based logic puzzles (Analogue and it's sequel for example.) Now there's not a lot of true-blue VN's being made anymore as other genre's have been incorporating more story into them (Adventure ala Telltale's games, Puzzles ala Zero Escape, Danganronpa etc.) to great success.
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Aug 8, 2016 23:29
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Covok posted:Last one I played was the last Sam & Max game. Ever since they made Poker Night at the Inventory their games have been trending to be less puzzles and more story, with the puzzles being more intuitive and appropriate to whatever their source material is. They've been getting a lot of mileage out of the adventure game 'find items, macguyver them together with the environment to progress' standard and QTE action scenes (which they use correctly and have been getting better at using them to help sell the action.)
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Aug 9, 2016 00:57
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Oh boy Rad Shiba, one of the worst characters in the game because he is a Dog That Can Talk (which is a thing in this cyber world) and that's about it.Really Pants posted:e: oh Rei's been hurt, see how vulnerable she is, don't you want to rescue her and care for her Or maybe they did do that and she is in fact wearing a wig of her hair except she doesn't display any of the usual 'I'm wearing a wig and not used to it yet' behaviors. WickedHate posted:I mean, yeah, there's TONS of problems with the writing, the characters, the setting, and nearly every string of dialogue, but do you score on objective quality or the fun you had while playing? Both, because your enjoyment of a bad thing that doesn't make it a better thing. I enjoyed Vall Hall A and even then I asked myself why I did so. (Said answer was pretty much what you said, in my case it achieved what it's going for.)
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Aug 24, 2016 23:22
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