AusPol December - CU in the NTinue? - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > AusPol December - CU in the NTinue?

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Wheezle: Aug 13, 2007; 420 stop boats erryday

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:

Don burke, rambly old man

Convincing, but I'm gonna need Peter Cundall's opinion before I can make a decision.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 08:44

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 13:08

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

lol Barnaby getting shouty about Labor and having to deal with "Labor waste and mess" even though the Libs have been in for ages. Even sticks the boot into the original NBN, even though it would've helped country electorates

# ? Dec 5, 2016 10:02

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

ungulateman posted:

anyone have a graph that compares our current carbon spike to conditions like the carboniferous era?

like, 'the poles are covered in rainforest' is not exactly a great goal but i'm curious if we're going to exceed carbon levels that have existed ever or just beyond the scope of human experience

it will probably be more like this than the carboniferous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

# ? Dec 5, 2016 10:20

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Since when did VicPol have black dress uniforms?

# ? Dec 5, 2016 10:24

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

You Am I posted:

lol Barnaby getting shouty about Labor and having to deal with "Labor waste and mess" even though the Libs have been in for ages. Even sticks the boot into the original NBN, even though it would've helped country electorates

It's always labor's fault. Everything now and forevermore.

WW2? Labor's fault. Irish potato famine? Labor's fault.

If people start doubting it you just need to get red faced and shout it more.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 10:48

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

DancingShade posted:

It's always labor's fault. Everything now and forevermore.

WW2? Labor's fault. Irish potato famine? Labor's fault.

If people start doubting it you just need to get red faced and shout it more.

CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP

# ? Dec 5, 2016 11:04

x1o: Aug 5, 2005; My focus is UNPARALLELED!

Recoome posted:

Since when did VicPol have black dress uniforms?

Since they decided that emulating the NYPD was the best course of action.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 11:50

Pickled Tink: Apr 28, 2012; Have you heard about First Dog? It's a very good comic I just love.

Also, wear your bike helmets kids. I copped several blows to the head but my helmet left me totally unscathed.

Finally you should check out First Dog as it's a good comic I like it very much.; Fun Shoe

First Dog:

# ? Dec 5, 2016 12:04

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Recoome posted:

Since when did VicPol have black dress uniforms?

2010.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 12:28

Jonah Galtberg: Feb 11, 2009

Recoome posted:

Since when did VicPol have black dress uniforms?

1932

# ? Dec 5, 2016 12:52

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Jonah Galtberg posted:

1932

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

# ? Dec 5, 2016 13:14

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

hahaha turns out that Dr. Christian Rowan, LNP MP for Moggill is against the decriminalisation of abortion.

e: REAALLYY loving angry about this

Recoome fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 5, 2016

# ? Dec 5, 2016 13:22

flapy vajannawings: Nov 26, 2016

You know, it's funny how EVERYONE has completly forgotten about that whole gay marriage thing.
Remember when people where going on about holding a plebiscite before the end of the year?

# ? Dec 5, 2016 15:41

Vindicator: Jul 23, 2007

flapy vajannawings posted:

You know, it's funny how EVERYONE has completly forgotten about that whole gay marriage thing.
Remember when people where going on about holding a plebiscite before the end of the year?

Some of us haven't. But the LNP has effectively washed their hands of it at this stage.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 20:36

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

The protest in Parliament House last week was another opportunity to reflect on the narcissism so prevalent among, but not restricted to, the left.

Bathing themselves in self righteousness they justify their behaviour by kidding themselves that they have the right to rearrange their rights and obligations according to their own assessment of what is fair and appropriate.

Perhaps it doesn't occur to them that if everyone did that there would be anarchy. Maybe they think that wouldn't be a bad thing. It's the self centredness that really aggravates.

What would they say if their employer sought to rearrange their rights to salary or super because the employer decided it was fair and reasonable to pay less effective workers less ? No doubt there'd be an uproar. What if their university just decided to not award a degree on the basis of some subjective personal bias by one lecturer? Another uproar.

Fair enough because we have rules so that we can all manage to live together. The employer and the university should have to live by the rules. And so it is for this lot of attention seekers.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. It is in many ways a cornerstone of our democracy. We all have the right to express our views freely. It doesn't do any good to just express your views in the privacy of your own home. The great conversation of life that we call democracy is predicated on the sharing of ideas, listening to new ones, ones with which we disagree and even,maybe, changing our mind.

Whether it's a solitary discontent walking the streets carrying a sandwich board extolling the merits of his view, however ridiculous, or a large co-ordinated group determined to share their collective view matters little. They equally share the right to protest. That right does not however give them the right to break the law.

Nor should that right in my view be exercised in a way that inhibits the rights of others.

When I left school I went to work for the then Myer group to train to be a buyer. The "old school" mentors found it imperative to make sure every trainee knew just exactly how low they were on the pecking order. Mine chose to get me to walk a few blocks each day to pick up the uniforms that had been made to measure in a nearby factory and carry them back to the store.

After a fairly short distance the nylon string binding the bundles of uniforms together would dig uncomfortably into my hands. The sensible option of putting them on a delivery truck that passed the factory daily was rejected under the ridiculous assertion that it would make customers wait another day.

The test was clear: complaining wasn't an option. On a particularly difficult day with a big load in hand the road to return was blocked by a sizeable anti-Vietnam War demonstration. I couldn't put my load down, they weren't packed to sit on the pavement.

I saw a bunch of students, all well fed, looking as though they were having a good day out. I couldn't help but dislike every one of them. In their rightful desire to express their views they had forgotten to take into account the rights of others or more likely decided their own right took precedence.

I realised there were hundreds of people like me about whom this group didn't give a drat. There might have been people trying to get to the doctor, to pick up a kid at school or to get to the bank (in pre-ATM days) to be able to pay their rent. We just didn't matter to the students.

And so it is with the protesters at Parliament House. They think their right to protest means they can do as they choose. They choose what will give them publicity. The fact that Parliament is interrupted, that security staff are called to action with all the risks that entails, that inconvenience is caused to other people is just irrelevant to them.

Equally irrelevant to them is the much broader policy issue, namely the horrific problems caused when criminals offer to help people by pass both the UNHCR and local laws in exchange for cash.

Those without the cash just get dumped on the forgotten pile. No one was protesting for them. They're not here, they're not in the news. Those with money to pay who got within reach merely provide the backdrop against which this lot act out their drama. It's the politics of proximity. It costs so little, feels so good.

As with so many people who are motivated to put themselves centre stage in protests we discover that the real issue for them is not the subject of their protestations but in fact themselves. They want to be on TV, they want to tell everyone that they care. It's just one big "I'm a nice person" story.

The subjects of their protestations in fact are an indispensable asset without whom they would lack a vehicle or springboard to promote themselves as caring people. It's narcissism of the highest order. These people may well believe deeply what they are saying.

They just believe more deeply that we all need to know how much they care. If they really want change they will have to put in the hard yards, build support among others for their views, listen to other points of view, negotiate and find common ground. But that will not happen. The democratic process is too much hard work for them. They don't care about civilised discourse, your view or mine. It's all about them. It's "the look at me" politics of narcissists.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 20:46

AgentF: May 11, 2009

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/man-leads-police-on-low-speed-chase-with-stolen-front-end-loader/8090894 posted:

Man allegedly leads police on 'slow' speed chase after stealing front end loader

A South Australian man who allegedly led police on a low speed chase with a stolen front end loader at Nuriootpa has been arrested and charged with a number of offences.

Police allege the Nuriootpa man, 35, stole an articulated front end loader from the Nuriootpa Saw Mill on Falkenberg Road at 1am on Sunday.

Residents contacted police after the man was found driving the loader around the township.

Police said patrols spotted the loader on Old Kapunda Road, but the man refused to stop and was followed along several back streets before driving into parklands.

He was eventually arrested after allegedly crashing into a large tree.

Police said no one was injured.

The man was breath tested and allegedly returned a blood alcohol reading of 0.093.

He was issued with a six-month instant loss of licence and charged with engaging in a police pursuit, illegal use, property damage, being unlawfully on premises, drink driving, driving while disqualified and possessing breaking implements.

The man was bailed to appear in the Tanunda Magistrates Court in January.
Front end loaders 'dangerous in the wrong hands'

The mill's manager Trent McPherson said front end loaders can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.

"It wasn't a high speed chase, but very dangerous," Mr McPherson said.

"You can plough straight over the top of vehicles, you can go through houses, that's what our biggest concern was if it was in the wrong hands."

Mr McPherson said he was told by police the man was travelling at about 25 kilometres per hour.

He said he was grateful to members of the community who alerted him to the alleged incident.

"Got to thank the police, and the community was so quick in response," he said.

"The lady [who] lives next door to us heard the commotion and a young kid actually followed him until the police came, so that was pretty good of him."

:cryingpipingshrike:

# ? Dec 5, 2016 21:20

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

gay picnic defence posted:

The protest in Parliament House last week was another opportunity to reflect on the narcissism so prevalent among, but not restricted to, the left.

Bathing themselves in self righteousness they justify their behaviour by kidding themselves that they have the right to rearrange their rights and obligations according to their own assessment of what is fair and appropriate.

Perhaps it doesn't occur to them that if everyone did that there would be anarchy. Maybe they think that wouldn't be a bad thing. It's the self centredness that really aggravates.

What would they say if their employer sought to rearrange their rights to salary or super because the employer decided it was fair and reasonable to pay less effective workers less ? No doubt there'd be an uproar. What if their university just decided to not award a degree on the basis of some subjective personal bias by one lecturer? Another uproar.

Fair enough because we have rules so that we can all manage to live together. The employer and the university should have to live by the rules. And so it is for this lot of attention seekers.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. It is in many ways a cornerstone of our democracy. We all have the right to express our views freely. It doesn't do any good to just express your views in the privacy of your own home. The great conversation of life that we call democracy is predicated on the sharing of ideas, listening to new ones, ones with which we disagree and even,maybe, changing our mind.

Whether it's a solitary discontent walking the streets carrying a sandwich board extolling the merits of his view, however ridiculous, or a large co-ordinated group determined to share their collective view matters little. They equally share the right to protest. That right does not however give them the right to break the law.

Nor should that right in my view be exercised in a way that inhibits the rights of others.

When I left school I went to work for the then Myer group to train to be a buyer. The "old school" mentors found it imperative to make sure every trainee knew just exactly how low they were on the pecking order. Mine chose to get me to walk a few blocks each day to pick up the uniforms that had been made to measure in a nearby factory and carry them back to the store.

After a fairly short distance the nylon string binding the bundles of uniforms together would dig uncomfortably into my hands. The sensible option of putting them on a delivery truck that passed the factory daily was rejected under the ridiculous assertion that it would make customers wait another day.

The test was clear: complaining wasn't an option. On a particularly difficult day with a big load in hand the road to return was blocked by a sizeable anti-Vietnam War demonstration. I couldn't put my load down, they weren't packed to sit on the pavement.

I saw a bunch of students, all well fed, looking as though they were having a good day out. I couldn't help but dislike every one of them. In their rightful desire to express their views they had forgotten to take into account the rights of others or more likely decided their own right took precedence.

I realised there were hundreds of people like me about whom this group didn't give a drat. There might have been people trying to get to the doctor, to pick up a kid at school or to get to the bank (in pre-ATM days) to be able to pay their rent. We just didn't matter to the students.

And so it is with the protesters at Parliament House. They think their right to protest means they can do as they choose. They choose what will give them publicity. The fact that Parliament is interrupted, that security staff are called to action with all the risks that entails, that inconvenience is caused to other people is just irrelevant to them.

Equally irrelevant to them is the much broader policy issue, namely the horrific problems caused when criminals offer to help people by pass both the UNHCR and local laws in exchange for cash.

Those without the cash just get dumped on the forgotten pile. No one was protesting for them. They're not here, they're not in the news. Those with money to pay who got within reach merely provide the backdrop against which this lot act out their drama. It's the politics of proximity. It costs so little, feels so good.

As with so many people who are motivated to put themselves centre stage in protests we discover that the real issue for them is not the subject of their protestations but in fact themselves. They want to be on TV, they want to tell everyone that they care. It's just one big "I'm a nice person" story.

The subjects of their protestations in fact are an indispensable asset without whom they would lack a vehicle or springboard to promote themselves as caring people. It's narcissism of the highest order. These people may well believe deeply what they are saying.

They just believe more deeply that we all need to know how much they care. If they really want change they will have to put in the hard yards, build support among others for their views, listen to other points of view, negotiate and find common ground. But that will not happen. The democratic process is too much hard work for them. They don't care about civilised discourse, your view or mine. It's all about them. It's "the look at me" politics of narcissists.

hahaha man how loving salty do you have to be

# ? Dec 5, 2016 22:15

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Recoome posted:

hahaha man how loving salty do you have to be

But he was inconvenienced by a protest once

:cry:

# ? Dec 5, 2016 22:22

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

the regressive left have always been narcissistic and self-absorbed, don't they realise that their anti-war protest is slowing me down, and I am carrying a parcel!

"as with so many people who want to put themselves centre stage" writes former politician, ambassador to the holy see, and newspaper columnist amanda vanstone.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 22:26

Urcher: Jun 16, 2006

gay picnic defence posted:

Equally irrelevant to them is the much broader policy issue, namely the horrific problems caused when criminals offer to help people by pass both the UNHCR and local laws in exchange for cash.

I initially read this as referring to the Nauru government and Serco helping the Australian government. I had to re-read it to work out the intended meaning because it was clear this article wasn't intending to side with "the left" on anything.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 22:40

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Solemn Sloth posted:

the regressive left have always been narcissistic and self-absorbed, don't they realise that their anti-war protest is slowing me down, and I am carrying a parcel!

"as with so many people who want to put themselves centre stage" writes former politician, ambassador to the holy see, and newspaper columnist amanda vanstone.

I could've guessed. Honestly the great irony of protesting like this is that people lose their minds because they are inconvenienced for like 5 minutes, when either people are dying/refugees are being tortured/LGBTQIA people are being told to kill themselves. Yeah it's like 5 mins of your life but we are making a statement that there are people where their whole existence is poo poo right now yeah i really hope the string cut your finger.

Also, this is a great article by Slackbastard which breaks down a lot of the current neo-nazi/fascist/ultranationalist groups

# ? Dec 5, 2016 22:42

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah but what about my brief inconvenience

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4587508.htm

7.30 posted:

Transcript
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The death of a teenage boy in Brisbane two weeks ago is forcing people to face up to the reality that young gay people are dramatically overrepresented in suicides.

Tyrone Unsworth killed himself after he was taunted with homophobic slurs and beaten up so badly he was hospitalised.

There are hard questions to be asked about whether enough is being done to stop bullying of children like Tyrone.

Over the weekend, his family joined a large public rally to demand answers and call for urgent change in the education system.
Michael Atkin reports and a warning - this story contains some distressing content.

(Music)

MICHAEL ATKIN, REPORTER: Brisbane teenager Tyrone Unsworth was different to other boys in his Year 7 class.
He was Indigenous, gay and loved dressing up.

(Music)

GYPSIE-LEE EDWARDS KENNARD, FRIEND: He loved girlie things. He even, you know, he's chosen dresses for me and his mum to wear.
You know, he's asked to use my make-up and you know, kids obviously thought that, because he's like that, he could be a target for their bullying.

(Music)

MICHAEL ATKIN: Away from school, Tyrone's family say he was a free spirit.

TWIGGY JONES, GRANDMOTHER: Very happy-go-lucky, like he owned nature. He was just out there, spiritual in the yard, and thought it was like a forest everywhere he went.

MICHAEL ATKIN: But by the age of 13, that had all changed.
What was it like for you, as his grandmother, to hear these stories about him being bullied at school?

TWIGGY JONES: Very, very sad. It's, yeah, heartbreaking.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Tyrone's mother, Amanda, claims he was subject to a hateful bullying campaign at school and was repeatedly called names like "human being", "fairy" and "gay boy".
But Aspley State High School says it had no idea the bullying was going on until it was too late.
Around one month ago, the bullying went way beyond playground taunts.

GYPSIE-LEE EDWARDS KENNARD: This kid picked up a fence paling and hit him from behind, and knocked him out and broke Tyrone's jaw.

TWIGGY JONES: Didn't want to go to school. He was adamant that he didn't want to go back to school.
We tried to force him, but he just kept saying, "No. I don't want to go back to school."

MICHAEL ATKIN: As his physical injuries healed, his emotional scars deepened.
You were spending time with Tyrone the day before he took his life. What was he telling you?

GYPSIE-LEE EDWARDS KENNARD: He was an absolute mess. Crying his eyes out. Telling me that everyone wants him dead. I said, "Tyrone, what do you mean everyone wants you dead?" and he said, "The kids at school keep telling me to go kill myself."
And I was obviously gobsmacked, you know?

MICHAEL ATKIN: Tyrone died the next day, leaving friends and family devastated.

MICHAEL ATKIN: It's just been a really hard few days, and I'm just trying my hardest to be there for Tyrone's family.
It's just, you know, they've got all these unanswered questions and, you know, yeah, it's been really hard.

MAN: We're in Taylor's Square in Sydney for a vigil for Tyrone Unsworth ...

MICHAEL ATKIN: Tyrone's story has moved people across the country, including gay Federal Liberal MP Tim Wilson.

TIM WILSON, LIBERAL MP: And for all young LGBTI children who are experiencing bullying and harassment, we should work to stop it and encourage resilience, because your life will be incredible.
I was moved to give a speech because, firstly, I don't think such a horrific act should go unnoticed, particularly when it reflects a broader challenge in society around bullying of young kids.

WOMAN: For Tyrone! In his name!

CROWD: We demand safe schools today!

MICHAEL ATKIN: Yesterday, hundreds of people gathered in Brisbane to demand the controversial Safe Schools program be mandatory to prevent bullying of queer students.

SPEAKER: Every single person here knows a young person like Tyrone. Tyrone could have been your child, your friend.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Amongst the crowd was William, who approached 7.30 desperate to share his story.

WILLIAM, FATHER: I had a gay daughter who, in her mid-20s, committed suicide. She was bullied and vilified from the beginning of school. She was different.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Tyrone's mother, Amanda, still overcome with grief, cancelled her speech and didn't attend the rally.

SPEAKER: A big message that the family wants to get out as well is that things have to change.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Gay uni student Christopher Hanson hid his sexuality during his teens and struggled with depression.

CHRISTOPHER HANSON: Whether you're in the closet, out, or questioning yourself, please know that you're not alone.

Please know that support is available.

This is, you know, a massive issue. Homophobia and transphobia in our society and it's extremely sad that we have to wait for something as horrible as this to happen for it to kind of receive the attention that it needs.

Sex education, throughout all of my schooling, essentially pretended that any kind of sexual agenda diversity didn't exist.

There was no mention whatsoever to anything other than heterosexual activity.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Tim Wilson says queer students often suffer in silence because they don't know other people like them.

TIM WILSON: LGBTI kids often don't have reference points or role models that they can see where their future lies.
And they might void themselves, because of the negative messages they get from others, to the point where they no longer have confidence in themselves.
And I say that because that was my experience throughout my teenage years.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Chris hangs out at Open Doors, a queer youth service in Brisbane's inner city where most young people have experienced bullying.

PAM BARKER, OPEN DOORS: Taunting, name-calling, hitting, kicking, spitting, you know, telling of stories and spreading rumours.

MICHAEL ATKIN: How often is that bullying based around a misunderstanding of who that young person is and fear of their sexuality?

PAM BARKER: 100 per cent. It's totally based on that.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Rates of suicide amongst queer young people are six times higher than other Australians.

Three Open Doors clients have completed suicide in the last 18 months.

PAM BARKER: We were working quite closely to support these young people, and unfortunately, due to the factors that presented in these young people's lives, that was the result of that torment and of that lack of acceptance within the community and that connection to community.

MICHAEL ATKIN: Open Doors has approached Tyrone's school about working with them to better educate students about gender and sexuality.

PAM BARKER: It would be good to have education programs in all schools, as well Aspley moving forward, that would allow students to have these conversations and get it out in the open.

WOMAN: We have to keep fighting for Tyrone, for all the Tyrones, in a symbolic gesture of love!
For Tyrone - release all that love!

MICHAEL ATKIN: Any change is too late for Tyrone Unsworth, but his family want it to be different for other young people.

TWIGGY JONES: I hope it brings it out in a big way that all these kids know that, now, there's gonna be big support for 'em singing out for help.

LEIGH SALES: Michael Atkin with that report and we asked the Queensland Education Department if we could speak with staff at Aspley State High School. It declined.

If that story has raised concerns for you, remember help is available.

You can call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 46 36.

CATTASTIC fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 5, 2016

# ? Dec 5, 2016 23:36

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

QUACKTASTIC posted:

Yeah but what about my brief inconvenience

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4587508.htm

I was at that rally on Sunday, it was really moving and I had to help carry the chant at the front because we didn't have a bullhorn for some weird reason.

Had the token angry weird guy shouting at us against equality still, so that's good

# ? Dec 5, 2016 23:43

Cirofren: Jun 13, 2005; Pillbug

gay picnic defence posted:

What would they say if their employer sought to rearrange their rights to salary or super because the employer decided it was fair and reasonable to pay less effective workers less ? No doubt there'd be an uproar. What if their university just decided to not award a degree on the basis of some subjective personal bias by one lecturer? Another uproar.

Fair enough because we have rules so that we can all manage to live together. The employer and the university should have to live by the rules. And so it is for this lot of attention seekers.

What would they say if their elected representatives sought to ignore the human rights of hundreds of people fleeing war and persecution because the party decided it was fair and reasonable to attract racist votes at the expense of others suffering?

Oh wait, employers and universities should have to live by the rules (except they don't, look at Uber or 7/11) so why the gently caress should their be an uproar for workers and students but not for the fact that we have literal detention camps where we drive people mad.

What a complete crock of poo poo this article is.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 23:51

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I'm pretty sure employers do change conditions and do pay less effective workers less? No doubt people get denied degrees because of vindictive lecturers too.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 23:55

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

I like that the first half of the article is setting up an argument about what is legitimate to protest about; only people breaking rules. But the actual criticism in the second half is just about tactics, and inconvenience. So even in the 'legitimate uproars' protests that inconvenienced people would be illegitimate. Terrible loving article even ignoring how loving terrible an opinion it is.

# ? Dec 5, 2016 23:58

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-06/australian-business-lobby-now-outgunned-by-left-wing-groups/8095274
Australia's once influential business lobby is now "completely outgunned" by trade unions and left-of-centre think tanks, according to a growing force in conservative policy development and debate.

The Liberal Party-aligned Menzies Research Centre has reignited questions about a schism between business lobby groups, including the Business Council of Australia (BCA) which has been criticised recently as "out of touch" and "missing in action".

In a paper released today, Menzies' Enterprise Policy Institute head Andrew Bragg attacked business lobbying strategy and said the business community appeared unwilling to fight for the policies that delivered 25 years of growth.

"You have to be prepared to campaign, you have to talk to the commentariat, you need to be in the living rooms and you need to be at the grassroots levels as well," Mr Bragg told AM.

"At the moment, the business community is not able to compete on key economic issues.

"If we lose the arguments there will be fewer opportunities for our children, and lower living standards."

The waning policy power of the BCA prompted a recent extraordinary attack from former Future Fund chairman David Murray on outgoing president Catherine Livingstone.

Earlier this year, Liberal Party powerbroker Michael Kroger called for the sacking of BCA chief executive Jennifer Westacott.

"I think their point is that you have to be prepared to campaign for your policies and you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty," Mr Bragg said.

The Menzies research draws on data from the Australian Electoral Commission, the Fair Work Commission and the Australian Charities and Not for Profits Commission.

The paper calls for the reform of business lobby strategy pointing to a $100 million "enterprise policy imbalance" that is diluting the policy message from business.

The research cites $157 million per year spent by traditional left, "anti-enterprise" groups including think tanks such as the Grattan, Australia, McKell and Chifley institutes, Industry Super Australia, Greenpeace, the Australian Council of Trade Unions and grassroots campaigners like GetUp.

That compares to $41 million per year spent by traditional right, "pro-enterprise" groups such as BCA, Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Australian Industry Group, Council of Small Business Australia and think tanks such as the Institute of Public Affairs, the Centre of Independent Studies and the Menzies Research Centre.

The Menzies paper urges the business lobby to counter successful grassroots campaigns from GetUp and also to address social media imbalances.

The research shows "anti-enterprise" groups have 200,000 followers, excluding unions, while "pro-enterprise" has only 24,500 followers.

"A sophisticated anti-enterprise bunch of think tanks, unions, single issue and community campaigns leave no stone unturned arguing against business policy," Mr Bragg said.

"Anti-business think tanks and single-issue groups focus on the commentariat and media while GetUp and unions penetrate the grassroots level."

Menzies anticipates there will be a clearer picture of union resources and finances once the Registered Organisations Commission is established following its Senate approval last week.

Mr Bragg admits to having a grudging admiration for the success of GetUp and believes business needs to establish a social media equivalent to tackle grassroots issues.

"These are the issues that we should be prepared to fight all the way from the commentariat down to the grassroots level at the pub and the footy club," he said.

I have a feeling GetUp isn't nearly as influential as their enemies seem to think they are. Most of their material looks like it's aimed at people too young to vote anyway.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:06

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Didn't GetUp cause an upset in one seat last election? I can barely remember something like that happening.

e:Or was that just the Liberals whinging that they lost a seat.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:08

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

quote:

I realised there were hundreds of people like me about whom this group didn't give a drat. There might have been people trying to get to the doctor, to pick up a kid at school or to get to the bank (in pre-ATM days) to be able to pay their rent. We just didn't matter to the students.

They just didn't care!! How did we become such a callous society with no regard for human life?!?!

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:11

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

quote:

Mr Bragg admits to having a grudging admiration for the success of GetUp and believes business needs to establish a social media equivalent to tackle grassroots issues.

"These are the issues that we should be prepared to fight all the way from the commentariat down to the grassroots level at the pub and the footy club," he said.

Have they considered that maybe it's their message not their messaging that's poo poo?

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:11

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

I think GetUp is so minor I'm struggling to remember if they are a fitness group or a political group.

Edit: Oh they are a left wing activist group. Neat maybe I should read more they look legit good.

Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 6, 2016

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:13

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

RiseUp is the nationalist group.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:14

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

QUACKTASTIC posted:

Have they considered that maybe it's their message not their messaging that's poo poo?

conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:15

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

RiseUp is the nationalist group.

GetUp is fine, whereas RiseUp is not (I confuse the two all the loving time)

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:16

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

RiseUp is the nationalist group.

So is one a parody of the other or is it just coincidence?

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:17

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Gridlocked posted:

So is one a parody of the other or is it just coincidence?

No idea.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:17

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

I like that the first half of the article is setting up an argument about what is legitimate to protest about; only people breaking rules. But the actual criticism in the second half is just about tactics, and inconvenience. So even in the 'legitimate uproars' protests that inconvenienced people would be illegitimate. Terrible loving article even ignoring how loving terrible an opinion it is.

If they worked, they should be fired, if they were on the dole, payments should be cut for two months, if students their degrees should be stopped. Such is the response from boomers, as if there were no legitimate forms of protest for the left.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:34

Periphery: Jul 27, 2003; ...

open24hours posted:

I have a feeling GetUp isn't nearly as influential as their enemies seem to think they are. Most of their material looks like it's aimed at people too young to vote anyway.

I like how he completely ignores that the current federal government is basically a business lobby group.

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:41

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Torturing our soldiers OK in some circumstances, 21% of Australians say
Red Cross survey finds 57% believe torturing an Australian soldier for information should not be allowed, while 23% are undecided

:allears:

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:42

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 13:08

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Synthbuttrange posted:

Torturing our soldiers OK in some circumstances, 21% of Australians say
Red Cross survey finds 57% believe torturing an Australian soldier for information should not be allowed, while 23% are undecided

Who's doing the torture?

# ? Dec 6, 2016 00:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > AusPol December - CU in the NTinue?

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