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Guavanaut posted:Foreign vegetable  e: in 471 King Ceretic of Strathclyde's army raided the Irish coast and sold a bunch of Saint Patrick's followers into slavery Borrovan fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 21:08
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Why would any Labour MP vote for her loving terrible deal if CU/SM passes? The only thing she's got is the threat of no deal and that's significantly reduced if there's a majority in the house for something else.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:10
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Because some labour MPs are shitheads, OP. Same reason they've voted for a bunch of lovely stuff.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:11
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Gonzo McFee posted:He's already done enough CUK work with Rupert Murdoch. 
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Mar 31, 2019 21:14
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OwlFancier posted:Because some labour MPs are shitheads, OP. Same reason they've voted for a bunch of lovely stuff. Sure, but the number of said shitheads hasn't changed since last week when the deal was defeated, so I really don't understand the "well maybe Labour MPs will vote for the deal this time" from supposedly intelligent and insightful political commentators (oxymoron, I know).
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Mar 31, 2019 21:15
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I think the suggestion was that the tories might have better cohesion.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I'm going to technocratically critique this otherwise unimpeachable idea: The people engaged in agricultural (or other decentralized) work still need (and deserve) some sort of support structure, which will not be there if you simply nix everywhere with a population under 500K. Plus you're really setting yourself of for failure by putting everyone in a few baskets, in the UK a mere 8. However, if instead you simple relocate everyone to the largest 114 cities/towns of the UK you'd still have at least 500k in each, while avoiding the most obvious problems of extreme centralization. Pity that Scunthorpe precisely doesn't make the cut though. Despite it being a joke it's the same weird appeal to turning the world into a 40K style hive that I find really worrying. Combined with a weird disregard for environmentalism I feel some of you need a ride out into the country some time. It'll do you good. Just don't talk to the people. edit: quoted wrong person
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Mar 31, 2019 21:19
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Borrovan posted:Tomatoes are actually a berry e: ^^^ Already live there, went for a nice walk and saw some deer today. Didn't vote UKIPs. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 21:20
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OwlFancier posted:I think the suggestion was that the tories might have better cohesion. The ERG aren't going to vote for it, and remain Tories are in the same situation as Labour - the threat of no deal by default is a lot less if there's a majority in Parliament for another course of action.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:22
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Yeah, I'm hoping we get something sensible tomorrow, followed by a year's delay or so to get it sorted out. It'd be nice to have a bit of good news for a change.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:24
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Regarde Aduck posted:Despite it being a joke it's the same weird appeal to turning the world into a 40K style hive that I find really worrying. Combined with a weird disregard for environmentalism I feel some of you need a ride out into the country some time. It'll do you good. Just don't talk to the people. V. Illych L. posted:i expect enhedslisten will still be around to hoover up all the votes of people who don't think racism is the bee's knees, and to consign those votes to the fringes where they may be safely ignored
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Mar 31, 2019 21:34
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Pistol_Pete posted:Yeah, I'm hoping we get something sensible tomorrow, followed by a year's delay or so to get it sorted out. Yeah, I'm sick of good news just being: "we voted down May's deal again". Positive movement towards a softer Brexit would be great, and that's coming from a staunch remainer.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:34
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Julio Cruz posted:Sure, but the number of said shitheads hasn't changed since last week when the deal was defeated, so I really don't understand the "well maybe Labour MPs will vote for the deal this time" from supposedly intelligent and insightful political commentators (oxymoron, I know). Nandy and Snell (among others) represent highly Leave constituencies, and are keen to not be seen as delaying Brexit. May will try and frame things as 'My Deal and we leave on the 22nd May' or 'Customs Union plus a lengthy delay'. She might also strip out the political declaration again and try to imply voting for her deal could end up leading to No Deal. Basically it will be total panic, promising all things to all people. With the added threat of Corbyn actually becoming PM to help win Labour MPs over.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:35
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Remember that hope is a lie
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Mar 31, 2019 21:36
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Also, what the gently caress is the point of Emily Thornberry pissing all over CM 2.0? That would be a pretty good thing for Labour to have backed.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:38
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Gunder posted:Also, what the gently caress is the point of Emily Thornberry pissing all over CM 2.0? That would be a pretty good thing for Labour to have backed. it's not labour policy while being what Labour will probably go for (without admitting, because it means they'd have to have the immigration debate before a GE) during the debate the labour whip said that CM2 was an option the party were fine with but not officially backing so they can claim it for themselves after a GE. It's just dumb posturing. Borrovan posted:Tomatoes are actually a berry i fixed the snipe just for you
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Mar 31, 2019 21:40
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Actually yes. The only decent place I've ever been with a population under 5 figures is Bozeman in Montana. Everywhere else is turboracist. Bozeman probably is too, but there's not enough non-whites there for it to actually manifest. (I say this despite loving tiny wee Newtownards in Norn Iron.) Doesn't really matter though, just keep building cities out and out and out and Mega-City One, Brit-Cit, etc. etc. will soon sprawl over the face of the planet and encompass billions of residents each.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:42
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Julio Cruz posted:Why would any Labour MP vote for her loving terrible deal if CU/SM passes? 
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Mar 31, 2019 21:45
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Spangly A posted:it's not labour policy while being what Labour will probably go for (without admitting, because it means they'd have to have the immigration debate before a GE) Do you think this means that Labour will back it tomorrow after all? If they don't it's hard to see when they'll get another chance.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:47
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mods 
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Mar 31, 2019 21:52
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Gunder posted:Do you think this means that Labour will back it tomorrow after all? If they don't it's hard to see when they'll get another chance. I strongly doubt it, it's still a bill proposed by someone who isn't them that is neither massive ethnic cleansing or cancelling brexit, so it pleases nobody. It's hard to predict what'll happen anyway tbh, it comes down to how Bercow decides he's going to play it. He could do ranked choice voting, he could do a runoff, he could do a whole bunch of runoffs. It'd be sensible to have No Deal vs either a 2nd ref or Revoke a50 as a separate choice than the brexit preferences
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Mar 31, 2019 21:53
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Gunder posted:Do you think this means that Labour will back it tomorrow after all? If they don't it's hard to see when they'll get another chance. Labour have been in talks with CM2.0-backing Tories, as have the DUP and the SNP. We won't find out if any of them will whip for it until tomorrow though. Realistically what the first indicative votes process shows is that they all have to come together around something, otherwise nothing will end up passing. Maybe they go for CM2.0, maybe they go for Customs Union.
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Mar 31, 2019 21:53
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This guy writes in the FT: "Imagine the idea of prime minister Boris Johnson from a European perspective. He would become a full voting member in the council. On April 10, the leaders would have the unique opportunity to stop this. Hard to deny the temptation." So uh... yeah, it's gonna be loving no deal innit
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Mar 31, 2019 22:02
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Spangly A posted:I strongly doubt it, it's still a bill proposed by someone who isn't them that is neither massive ethnic cleansing or cancelling brexit, so it pleases nobody. Ultimate Bill Cage Match! Ten Bills go in and only one will come out! Which will prevail! They all die alone and unloved.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:05
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Having the UK with the potential to gum up the works in general is becoming less and less appealing for the EU and just like Brexit is sucking up all the domestic political oxygen in the UK, it's got the European side of things in stasis too.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:06
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Total Meatlove posted:Remember that hope is a lie Here's a really unfortunate thing that has happened. We had the 2017 election, which was an absolutely incredible result for us. Every british institution turned full guns, smugly talked about a massive tory majority, hope is a lie etc but what actually happened was the Absolute Boy and our army of door-knockers caused the biggest political swing since the 40s and shocked everyone, real talk we even shocked ourselves. And to the extent that it can be done to an election the establishment have just memory holed it because of course they would. So then we go into Brexit and it overtakes everything. We've got leftists allied with FBPE libs if they want brexit and leftists allied with UKIP if they don't and all that energy is just dissipated. It just really sucks that that historic moment in 2017, the joy of shared success, the realisation that if enough us wear out our shoes it's completely possible that we actually save this loving country, it all just sort of fell apart. When the GE gets called, and I think it's more likely than a second referendum, we really need to get that Absolute Boy energy back we can't let the 2017 result just be a historical anomaly and we can't let 'Corbyn may get blamed for Brexit!' or 'Corbyn may get blamed for stopping Brexit!' hold us back.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:11
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Vitamin P posted:When the GE gets called, and I think it's more likely than a second referendum, we really need to get that Absolute Boy energy back we can't let the 2017 result just be a historical anomaly and we can't let 'Corbyn may get blamed for Brexit!' or 'Corbyn may get blamed for stopping Brexit!' hold us back. I'm with you. 3 A.M. (Hope Springs) Eternal (in the Corbs' shoulder breast) 
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Mar 31, 2019 22:26
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Honestly if we have a GE in the next six months I'd probably put my job hunt on hold and go out doorstepping even though I think I'd be terrible at it, for the first time ever, because it's just so loving important right now.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:27
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1112434746993324032 So, say her deal squeezes through with the barest of minimum support. what next, May empowered with fresh mandate to negotiate future EU relationship? Brexit finally out of the picture, government can focus on locating, enacting its domestic agenda? is there going to be a post-brexit at all, or is it all brexit all the time from now on
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Mar 31, 2019 22:30
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Regarde Aduck posted:Despite it being a joke it's the same weird appeal to turning the world into a 40K style hive that I find really worrying. Combined with a weird disregard for environmentalism I feel some of you need a ride out into the country some time. It'll do you good. Just don't talk to the people. If you're not an AnPrim and want to have a relatively modern lifestyle with a fairly sustainable socio-economic system... big concentrated cities and large swathes of reclaimed and uninterrupted nature are your best bet. The environmental impact of things like suburbs and small towns is immense. Public transportation (which only works in dense areas) and efficient concentration of services really comes from big cities. You should still be able to visit the countryside and pitch a tent... but seriously, we're going to need to let the planet actually recover if we want to survive.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:34
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:So, say her deal squeezes through with the barest of minimum support. what next, May empowered with fresh mandate to negotiate future EU relationship? Brexit finally out of the picture, government can focus on locating, enacting its domestic agenda? The withdrawal agreement is the simple, easy part of brexit negotiations. The future relationship stuff will be far more contentious and time-consuming.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:35
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So who decides what the format for tomorrow's vote will be? The Speaker? The parliament with a vote? The Government? With "the format" I mean if it's going to be a single vote, a series of separate votes, an MP Thunderdome, etc.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:42
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Going back to socialism in rural areas chat: Labour's pledge at the last election to look into why local pubs were failing, and help communities revive them was seen as a bit of a joke by some people, but for rural communities your local pub might be the only place you can get to without a car where you can socialise. They improve social cohesion, give older people and unemployed people a chance to meet other people, and can promote local producers. Some villages are already having success buying out their locals, including the one I grew up in - https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/leisure/food/11394848.the-red-lion-is-a-roaring-success/ - so Labour might have some success supporting other villages to do the same.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:43
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:So, say her deal squeezes through with the barest of minimum support. what next, May empowered with fresh mandate to negotiate future EU relationship? Brexit finally out of the picture, government can focus on locating, enacting its domestic agenda? May has promised to quit if her deal passes, so we'd definitely be getting a new PM soon. Brexit negotiations depend on whether May brings back just the withdrawal agreement or the WA plus political declaration. Although either way we're probably looking at a pretty hard Brexit considering the options for who will be in charge.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:44
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thespaceinvader posted:Honestly if we have a GE in the next six months I'd probably put my job hunt on hold and go out doorstepping even though I think I'd be terrible at it, for the first time ever, because it's just so loving important right now. Honestly for basic canvassing there isn't much to it other than spending a lot of time walking around. You're there to politely ask what people's voting intentions are, maybe grab some names and contact details, and move on, and you're given a list which should exclude most houses of people who are confirmed not labour as there's no point going there (obviously these lists are never fully accurate but they're reasonable). Sometimes you get involved in an actual political discussion with people but not often as when people do answer they mostly want to just answer and be done, and if you do meet undecideds the campaigns would prefer that you just note it down so that they can possibly contact them with a more experiences campaigner or even the candidate later on. In short knocking on doors isn't as scary as it sounds, and it's actually quite fun.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:48
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jabby posted:May has promised to quit if her deal passes, so we'd definitely be getting a new PM soon. I think she'll bring back just the WA, but backed with whatever the Commons decide instead of the declaration.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:51
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Do we have any reason to believe Bercow will actually allow Meaningful Vote 4: A New Hope? Hasn't May just pissed about too much by this point?
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Mar 31, 2019 22:51
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I think their issue might have been with calling it a "bullet train" rather than questioning it existing at all. If the journey takes 2 days then it ain't no bullet train. Anyway: https://twitter.com/ChrisCaesar/status/1112410924298715136?s=20
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Mar 31, 2019 22:54
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Qwertycoatl posted:The withdrawal agreement is the simple, easy part of brexit negotiations. The future relationship stuff will be far more contentious and time-consuming. yeah that stuff's bound to test national unity, as well the confidence between the UK and EU negotiating teams built up over the last few years anyway with how entirely predictable this situation was, I'm sure the UK government's got a good idea of how to get this all sorted out
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Mar 31, 2019 22:54
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IrvingWashington posted:I'm with you.  thespaceinvader posted:Honestly if we have a GE in the next six months I'd probably put my job hunt on hold and go out doorstepping even though I think I'd be terrible at it, for the first time ever, because it's just so loving important right now. Literally don't feel the fear at all, as long as you follow the politeness rules you can't be bad at doorstepping. You don't have to try and convince, you don't have to be a perfect representative of the movement, its pure humanity and pure numbers. If somebody has a volunteer knock on their door saying "Hey we value you and want to help you, here's a flyer" then they are more likely to vote and the more people who vote the better Labour does, and on top of that if the human that spoke to them was Labour they are more likely to vote Labour. Objectively speaking as long as you are polite then you cannot do anything but help the cause if you door knock.
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Mar 31, 2019 23:01
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