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Isizzlehorn posted:HID's are obnoxious as gently caress, You havent tried real Subaru HID's then. There is no goddamn way you would say that if you had
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Dec 7, 2011 01:28
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Admirable Gusto posted:I suppose ~hardcore~ people like you need ~hardcore~ HVAC controls that you have to constantly be adjusting to feel appropriately ~hardcore~
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Dec 7, 2011 01:32
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Admirable Gusto posted:Push button start is useless though Did you have a childhood, Admirable Gusto? Do you remember back in the days before advanced aero really got into full swing and wedges were still in style? Back when the de facto aero formula was W(wedge resemblance)=Downforce*Awesome so you knew everything that was a super car was going to be rad as gently caress. The era of Peak Wedge, with vehicles like Esprit, the F40, and the Countach. Of course you remember those days because you had one of the relic, That Countach Poster. That Countach Poster was the poster of the Lamborghini 4 in 3 American boys had on their wall as a child. Even if they didn't own one the image would still mysteriously appear on the walls. Those were the days that influenced what we still find cool today. Even Peak Car Chase and Peak Car Chase Actor occurred around that time, with Bullit being produced in 1968. Speaking of Steve Mcqueen, the coolest car driver motherfucker on earth, in the first few minutes of Lemans he jams his finger into something that would leave boys for the next 40 years wishing they could do the exact same thing.  Hell loving yes. It may be a relic of days gone by but it is still awesome so watch your goddamn tongue about starter buttons. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 02:23
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kimbo305 posted:I'd like to see a Renesis swap, too. I wonder if the clearance would work out. We had an RX-8 show up to our dyno day a couple of months back, it looked and sounded nice... and made a whopping 127rwhp Generally i think the purpose of engine swaps is to make more power than you had, not less...
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Dec 7, 2011 02:25
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TrueChaos posted:I'd prefer not to have the window open and heat blasting, thanks. Look at this guy... Windows down and heat blasting on a 40-50 degree day is probably the best thing about owning a car.
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Dec 7, 2011 02:31
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Admirable Gusto posted:I suppose ~hardcore~ people like you need ~hardcore~ HVAC controls that you have to constantly be adjusting to feel appropriately ~hardcore~ Is there a specific reason push button starts are more expensive? Do you still need an ignition receptacle and all that jazz, or are most of them done wirelessly? HIDs I can do without, but auto climate control is pretty nice in any car. Hopefully it's an option on the scion.
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Dec 7, 2011 02:47
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Cat Terrist posted:You havent tried real Subaru HID's then. There is no goddamn way you would say that if you had TBH, I never knew the newest Subaru's had HID's. Now if loving aftermarkets, Audi's and VW's actually had theirs designed like that.. I can't be the only one blinded by at least 1/4 of the cars on the road these days? Admirable Gusto posted:I suppose ~hardcore~ people like you need ~hardcore~ HVAC controls that you have to constantly be adjusting to feel appropriately ~hardcore~ I guess I'm just too ~hardcore~, then. If it means I don't have to deal with the fan blasting to loving FULL every time I hit the defog or set a much higher temp in the winter because the assholes who designed the 'auto' setting are colossal fuckwits, good. If I'm not comfortable, I adjust the temp higher/lower based upon my own preference. When I'm comfortable, I stick it to the middle setting on Low. See, was that so hard? I must admit the 'cool' factor of push-button start is worth getting, but not if it's a $500-$1000 option. Included as part of the car? Sure, why not. So, seems based upon the official comments and rumors going around, Subaru's STI division is going to develop a turbo setup for the BRZ, whereas Toyota's TRD division will likely develop the bolt-on supercharger. As both OEM options, that's a great way to provide aftermarket mods for many tastes that doesn't break the warranty.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:01
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Isn't the legacy's engine higher up in the car? Otherwise why wouldn't they put the turbo in the front in the Impreza too? Since the whole schtick of this car is that the engine is low to the ground that might be a problem for the turbo.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:08
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Toyota's electronic climate controls are very good. You set your temperature and then pretty much ignore it. There's a photosensitive eye on the dash as well as a frost sensor under the wipers and a per side air temperature sender. On sunny days, it directs colder air through the dash and defrost to keep your upper body cool in the sun. Then balances the total air temp at night. If its frozen on the wipers, or goes through a defrost program. It generally is $1200 in parts alone, though.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:11
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Dunno, every time I'm blinded on the road it's usually some dude in a lifted truck who never bothered to re-aim their headlights. Are the Subaru OEM HIDs auto-leveling? That said, I'm not a fan of the super high color temp lights most HIDs have. On that note, what the hell BMW: BMW tests '1,000 times brighter' laser headlights quote:BMW is trying to stay out in front of lighting issues. That BMW 6 Series, shown above, has a feature called "Anti-dazzle High- Beam Assistant." It also has a feature with another odd name, "Dynamic Light Spot," aimed at making it easier to illuminate pedestrians before you're in danger of running them down. I know it's just a stupid engineering wank, as I can't imagine the power consumption from headlights is actually significant in any way, and the actual total output of the headlights will be pretty similar. But still, gently caress cool white lighting almost as much as blue lighting. That poo poo hurts my eyes. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 03:12
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Skyssx posted:Toyota's electronic climate controls are very good. You set your temperature and then pretty much ignore it. There's a photosensitive eye on the dash as well as a frost sensor under the wipers and a per side air temperature sender. On sunny days, it directs colder air through the dash and defrost to keep your upper body cool in the sun. Then balances the total air temp at night. If its frozen on the wipers, or goes through a defrost program. It generally is $1200 in parts alone, though. And how many more points of failure are in a system like this compared to regular controls? To me this stuff is just extra poo poo that is going to break and be a pain to diagnose and then be expensive to fix. Bonus points if they integrate the loving controls with the stereo making putting in a non-poo poo head unit impossible. At least they've started to include aux-in. Not to mention that the system is never perfect. Toyota has good engineers but even the best can't predict every single situation. It is going to be wrong sometimes, guaranteed. When it is wrong it is the most frustrating poo poo. It's just another layer of abstraction to what I really want. I know what vents and temps I want and don't need some faceless engineer to decide for me. The point is that not everyone wants it and options are good.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:54
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Cream_Filling posted:Are the Subaru OEM HIDs auto-leveling? Yes, very much so. And much like a woman never goes back to white after a 14 INCH DICK TURBO, you really notice how poo poo normal lights are when you use properly done HIDs.
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Dec 7, 2011 04:02
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Piano posted:Look at this guy... I put the hard top on after the first snow. I had the top down for most of november, but there's a limit. 
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Dec 7, 2011 04:04
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law abiding rapist posted:And how many more points of failure are in a system like this compared to regular controls? To me this stuff is just extra poo poo that is going to break and be a pain to diagnose and then be expensive to fix. Bonus points if they integrate the loving controls with the stereo making putting in a non-poo poo head unit impossible. At least they've started to include aux-in. Modern electronics aren't going to be like gizmos from the 80's and 90's. We've got decades of engineering consumer electronics now. The phone in my pocket is roughly equivalent in graphical power to a top of the line game console from 2005. I would say electronics and occupant safety are roughly comparable between the 90's and today. Sure, cars were way safer than BoF barges in the 90's, but cars today make those safe cars look like death traps. quote:The point is that not everyone wants it and options are good. Agreed. I just like the idea of a base car with options added in instead of packages and such. I know it's no longer feasible.
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Dec 7, 2011 04:37
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law abiding rapist posted:And how many more points of failure are in a system like this compared to regular controls? To me this stuff is just extra poo poo that is going to break and be a pain to diagnose and then be expensive to fix. Bonus points if they integrate the loving controls with the stereo making putting in a non-poo poo head unit impossible. At least they've started to include aux-in. Its electronic, there are no "extra parts" to break (unless you count resistors and microprocessors, etc)
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Dec 7, 2011 06:10
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ROFLBOT posted:Its electronic, there are no "extra parts" to break (unless you count resistors and microprocessors, etc) Except its very easy to test everything in a standard "wires and switches" system. Its impossible to test every hardware path in any processor closely resembling modern. There is a reason why NASA still uses tech from the 80s
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Dec 7, 2011 06:41
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Brigdh posted:Except its very easy to test everything in a standard "wires and switches" system. Its impossible to test every hardware path in any processor closely resembling modern. There is a reason why NASA still uses tech from the 80s Yeah, I had a high energy particle hit a bit cell in my ECU's ROM and my autodimming mirror stopped working. In other news, factory HIDs are the best thing, and anyone who wants a push button start over that is a nut.
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Dec 7, 2011 06:51
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MetaJew posted:In other news, factory HIDs are the best thing, and anyone who wants a push button start over that is a nut. Totally agree. After owning a car with a good set of factory HIDs (and adaptive ones at that; love that feature), going back to a car with plain old halogens feels like having to use Windows 95 again. The difference is staggering. I even had really good Hella halogen housings and aimed very carefully on my last car (Miata), but the HIDs on my E46 are just in a different class entirely. Guinness fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 07:00
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Brigdh posted:Except its very easy to test everything in a standard "wires and switches" system. Its impossible to test every hardware path in any processor closely resembling modern. There is a reason why NASA still uses tech from the 80s
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Dec 7, 2011 07:03
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ROFLBOT posted:Its electronic, there are no "extra parts" to break (unless you count resistors and microprocessors, etc) You'd think this but the system is still very physical. Sensors can and do break, wires get old and the insulation decays, and connectors are always a weak point. Sure it's way better than any of the old vacuum logic Cadillac systems, but it's still more complex than standard controls. What happens when the little moisture sensor goes out and it starts running the defrost all the time? What about the little potentiometers for the dials? It's just got more way to break and since it's more complex it'll be harder to diagnose. That's just the way these things work. All that just so it can blast me with full A/C whenever I start the car because the ambient temperature was 5° F over the setting. No thanks. Factory HIDs are awesome though, but gently caress aftermarket ones and the people who install them forever. No it's not a cop, just some idiot who can't adjust his cutoff because he stuffed HIDs in a halogen housing!
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Dec 7, 2011 07:12
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Brigdh posted:Except its very easy to test everything in a standard "wires and switches" system. Its impossible to test every hardware path in any processor closely resembling modern. There is a reason why NASA still uses tech from the 80s This is a completely asinine statement. NASA uses the IBM RAD6000 in everything because they need a processor that can withstand a constant barrage of high-energy radiation. There is much more likely to be an issue with the software running on the chip than there is with the chip itself. Plus, it isn't like the CPUs in modern ECUs are that complicated. Edit: quote:What happens when the little moisture sensor goes out and it starts running the defrost all the time? What about the little potentiometers for the dials? It's just got more way to break and since it's more complex it'll be harder to diagnose. At least with a modern setup, the ECU software can tell you exactly which sensor is broken. Plus, depending on the sensor in question, it may be able to fall back on open-loop operation until the issue is resolved. This system isn't perfect, but I'll take a modern electronic setup over an RX-7 vacuum hose clusterfuck any day of the week. oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 07:14
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Guinness posted:Totally agree. After owning a car with a good set of factory HIDs (and adaptive ones at that; love that feature), going back to a car with plain old halogens feels like having to use Windows 95 again. The difference is staggering. I went from an Evo with HIDs to an S2000 with them, to an STI with them, and now I'm driving an '01 Jeep Cherokee. With sealed beams. I feel like I'm driving under water at night
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Dec 7, 2011 07:17
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law abiding rapist posted:And how many more points of failure are in a system like this compared to regular controls? To me this stuff is just extra poo poo that is going to break and be a pain to diagnose and then be expensive to fix. Bonus points if they integrate the loving controls with the stereo making putting in a non-poo poo head unit impossible. At least they've started to include aux-in. All of the MK3 Supras(like 6 of them) I've driven had an older variant of this system, and it was functioning fine 20+ years down the line. I'd say that electronics are less susceptible to wear than fully mechanical systems.
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Dec 7, 2011 07:24
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oRenj9 posted:At least with a modern setup, the ECU software can tell you exactly which sensor is broken. Plus, depending on the sensor in question, it may be able to fall back on open-loop operation until the issue is resolved. This system isn't perfect, but I'll take a modern electronic setup over an RX-7 vacuum hose clusterfuck any day of the week. Maybe I'm just cynical but I don't see the HVAC controller having a user-accessible diagnostic interface like OBD-II. Maybe a dealer could use specialized equipment but that's about it. What would open-loop operation be on an HVAC system? Safety says it would just run the defrost, since that's how a standard setup is designed to fail. Just like I said. In a car whose entire purpose is light weight and handling not offering a stripper model is just plain dumb, that's really all there is to it.
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Dec 7, 2011 07:32
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leyton house posted:I'd say that electronics are less susceptible to wear than fully mechanical systems. Well, for AC systems specifically, you're still going to have pretty much the same amount of mechanical movement. In the 'digital' system, there's still motors that move the vents, as far as I know, it's impossible to change the dynamics of air flow in a completely electronic manner, but I could be wrong.
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Dec 7, 2011 07:38
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law abiding rapist posted:Maybe I'm just cynical but I don't see the HVAC controller having a user-accessible diagnostic interface like OBD-II. Sorry, somehow I missed where you were specifically talking about HVAC systems.
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Dec 7, 2011 08:13
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Evo reviews the two cars back to back: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276016/driven_toyota_gt_86.html http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276025/driven_subaru_brz.html
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Dec 7, 2011 08:18
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quote:Anything else I need to know? Oh Subaru 
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Dec 7, 2011 08:35
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I think I like the front end of the Toyota a bit more. The Subaru front end has a hint of the Miata  face in it. Though, I have to admit that I'm a sucker for WR Blue Pearl, so I'd probably end up paying the premium for the Subaru model.
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Dec 7, 2011 08:44
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I like the BRZ's looks better in pictures, but I'll definitely try to drive both back to back.
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Dec 7, 2011 08:50
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So do we know how much the scion version is gonna run in the US?
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Dec 7, 2011 09:04
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oRenj9 posted:At least with a modern setup, the ECU software can tell you exactly which sensor is broken. You might want to check the Subaru thread say around about April this year and read up on a bit of a sensor problem I had. ECU's are no where near as good as you think they are at showing up issues
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Dec 7, 2011 10:12
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there's no way that even the world's biggest Space Mountain of HVAC electronics can be worse than vacuum controlled HVAC systems wooo yeah party hard. I don't really have an issue with my automatic climate control. If i don't give a poo poo, I just push the go button. If I want defrost or whatever the gently caress, I hit that button and then adjust the fan settings etc much like I would with a normal manual control set. What's the big issue?
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Dec 7, 2011 13:25
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its pretty awesome in australia. Winter: windows up, recirc closed, maybe a fan on if you dont like it stuffy. Summer: AC on full. or if youre like me, windows down, sweating like an idiot because you dont want the AC compressor sucking sweet HP.
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Dec 7, 2011 15:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:there's no way that even the world's biggest Space Mountain of HVAC electronics can be worse than vacuum controlled HVAC systems wooo yeah party hard. You want to be comfortable while driving your car? What the gently caress is wrong with you!
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Dec 7, 2011 15:21
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Climate control is awesome, and Subaru is awesome for including it on the toyobaru and WRX base models rather than doing a Honda and requiring you to buy the absolutely loaded model to get it. It's even smart enough on cold mornings not to run the blower fan until there is enough heat from the engine to actually be useful (unless defrost is on) Luddites are of course free to move the dials from auto/auto to manual fan and vent positioning as well. I've probably had to do that twice. sanchez fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 7, 2011 |
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Dec 7, 2011 15:36
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Cat Terrist posted:You might want to check the Subaru thread say around about April this year and read up on a bit of a sensor problem I had. ECU's are no where near as good as you think they are at showing up issues Analog systems are always going to be simpler to logically diagnose and fix, and usually without special tools or a solid understanding of magic smoke. gently caress the haters. They can have whatever they want, as long as they don't tell me what I should want.
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Dec 7, 2011 16:13
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BoostCreep posted:I went from an Evo with HIDs to an S2000 with them, to an STI with them, and now I'm driving an '01 Jeep Cherokee. With sealed beams. I feel like I'm driving under water at night
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Dec 7, 2011 17:51
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law abiding rapist posted:Oh Subaru Interesting. I don't think the base version will be stripped down as much as the FR-S is, which Subaru has gone on record as saying it'll likely be a few thousand less than the BRZ. But, that's some pretty heavy-handed talk about the base BRZ, especially if it's supposed to be the more 'premium' model to start. Eh, I guess Toyota and Subaru have to play wishy-washy games like that in order to differentiate themselves. Of note, however, Evo seems to have liked their drive in the GT 86 more than the BRZ. Hmm.
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Dec 7, 2011 18:00
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Isizzlehorn posted:Of note, however, Evo seems to have liked their drive in the GT 86 more than the BRZ. Hmm.
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Dec 7, 2011 18:03
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