|
Dick Burglar posted:Why is the Miata in the Mini Sports Models class but the Saturn Sky is in the Small Sports Models class? I know the Sky/Solstice weigh a good bit more than the Miata, but still. For similar reasons as to why the bentley continental is a subcompact, and the rolls royce phantom coupe is a compact. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best-worst.shtml
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 04:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:18 |
|
|
Powershift posted:For similar reasons as to why the bentley continental is a subcompact, and the rolls royce phantom coupe is a compact.  When I think mini-compact, the first thing that springs to mind sure is the DB9.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 05:00
|
|
|
Interior volume yaay!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 12:44
|
|
|
Ok, went to the local Toyota dealer here in Finland to chat about the GT86 and they said that MSRP is 46 624 euros (includes vehicle tax, 14 134 euros). For comparison, the Mazda 3 MPS is 44 591, VW Scirocco (2.0 DSG) is 41 044, BMW 125i Coupé is 47 595, Subaru WRX STi is 75 782 and Nissan 370Z is 75 599. BRZ doesn't have price yet but I'm guessing it will be about the same as Toyota's. They have practically no options for the GT86 other than paint and interior (black or black/red). It's equipped standard with the HID/LED front lights, the Toyota touch nav, front/rear fog lights, leather/alcantara seats (with heating) and apparently a puncture repair kit instead of a spare. Engine block heater was an option for 400 euros. Customer preorders and first demo cars arrive in August. The salesman didn't want to say the number of cars arriving, other than "not too many".
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 16:57
|
|
|
Powershift posted:For similar reasons as to why the bentley continental is a subcompact, and the rolls royce phantom coupe is a compact. Okay, that's pretty funny. Interior volume is a kind of crappy measurement. Of course, if they did it by curb weight, it would be more like a truck since it weighs like 5000 pounds (with a GVWR of like 6600). OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 18, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 17:47
|
|
|
Interior volume is a pretty decent measurement when you're just comparing the relative efficiency of different cars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 21:45
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That methodology is really transparent. How can you tell without seeing the data/analysis technique?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 22:48
|
|
|
bidikyoopi posted:How can you tell without seeing the data/analysis technique?  that's exactly what I was complaining about?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 22:59
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:
Ah ok, I get it. Well I assume that if you mailed them they'd release the papers but they probably should have them available online anyways. I don't know if the IIHS has a good reputation for peer-reviewed papers or not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 23:04
|
|
|
I just think that they could post a link to at least the methodology on the website so you knew what the gently caress you were lookin at and how it was derived and normalized. b
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 23:08
|
|
|
firehawk posted:Ok, went to the local Toyota dealer here in Finland to chat about the GT86 and they said that MSRP is 46 624 euros (includes vehicle tax, 14 134 euros). For comparison, the Mazda 3 MPS is 44 591, VW Scirocco (2.0 DSG) is 41 044, BMW 125i Coupé is 47 595, Subaru WRX STi is 75 782 and Nissan 370Z is 75 599. BRZ doesn't have price yet but I'm guessing it will be about the same as Toyota's. Holy poo poo, you guys gets anally raped price wise or what? 60K AUD?!?!?!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 23:15
|
|
|
Cat Terrist posted:Holy poo poo, you guys gets anally raped price wise or what? This coming from an Aussie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 23:46
|
|
|
Looks like HKS have a supercharger kit in the works: http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/04/car-spotlight-taniguchis-d1-hks-86/
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2012 23:57
|
|
|
BoostCreep posted:This coming from an Aussie. Exactly. He would pay 61K USD. At we "only" get belted 38K USD 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2012 01:31
|
|
|
Cat Terrist posted:Exactly. He would pay 61K USD. At we "only" get belted 38K USD Especially now that the vehicle tax was changed to be based on CO2 emissions to encourage people to choose small displacement engines and hybrids.My Civic Type-R is now 10 years old and I'd really like to replace it with a new car rather than second-hand. In terms of driving fun, I wouldn't want to "downgrade" from the CTR so I guess apart from moving out of the country, my only alternative to the GT86 would be to settle for something a bit cheaper like a Fiat 500 Abarth or a Mini Cooper S. The GT86 is a rear-wheel drive coupé and even at that price, seems to be by far the best value among its peers. If you really strech it, you could say that the BMW 1-series coupés are cheaper (starting at ~33K EUR) but, ehh.. "Fun" fact: that base model 2012 Mustang V6 costs here 66K EUR = 87K USD.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2012 12:20
|
|
|
firehawk posted:"Fun" fact: that base model 2012 Mustang V6 costs here 66K EUR = 87K USD. My mind hurts over this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2012 00:28
|
|
|
86's with delivery km's starting to show up on the Japanese auctions - someone obviously looking to make a quick buck...
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2012 02:28
|
|
|
Canadian BRZ Pricing announced: http://www.autos.ca/general-news/subaru-brz-canadian-pricing-announced I wonder if we'll have that stupid dealership markup here as well. I had the chance to sit in an FRS for about 30 seconds at a meet last night in Toronto. Some thoughts: - Seating position was comfortable, though I felt a bit too low to the ground. I didn't want to adjust the seat because it wasn't my car and I hate it when people move mine. - Plenty of heel/toe room. - Clutch pedal was a bit more to the right from where I rest my foot to what I'm used to. - Shifts were short with this very nice mechanical bolt action feel. Hard to describe. I think I like my Rx8's feel more but this was close and still enjoyable. - Interior was a bit boring styling wise (though it was a bit dark in the parking lot) - Back seats had no leg room, I wouldn't even think of using them - Space in the trunk was limited, won't be able to fit any tall objects. I don't even think you could even stack two of its wheels in there unless you took out the floor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 04:11
|
|
|
10000lbsofbananas posted:Canadian BRZ Pricing announced: Did you pop the seats down by chance? I'm just curious if it adds a lot more storage space or not. Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Apr 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 05:41
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:So I was dicking around with the IIHS insurance loss statistics and found this: That data would be useful only if they controlled for/stratified by age and gender.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 06:32
|
|
|
10000lbsofbananas posted:Canadian BRZ Pricing announced: That's before delivery, for which subaru charges $1,695 canadian. so the final price before tax would end up at about 29k even. $1,800 cheaper than a miata, $13,000 cheaper than a 370z, and 14,500 cheaper than the rx-8 was.(lol)
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 07:39
|
|
|
Wow, that Canadian pricing is actually sane. A WRX starts at 32.5K here before options taxes and delivery. E: V V Same here. Not now, because I've got a perfectly good car, but when its time for something new? Yup. TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 15:40
|
|
|
Yeah, a BRZ will definitely be on my list in the next couple of years at that price.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 15:54
|
|
|
Internet Meme posted:That data would be useful only if they controlled for/stratified by age and gender. Last time I was car shopping, I got a number of insurance quotes on different cars. Cars like the Honda Civic and Scion tC had higher insurance rates than other far more expensive cars even for me specifically, because the insurance companies do an insane amount of datamining and have statistics that show drivers of certain cars are going to have more accidents than drivers of other cars, even when other demographic information is identical. They don't seem to make these blatant discriminations public knowledge, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 16:10
|
|
|
Insurance gets a free pass on discrimination because otherwise everyone would have to pay the flat national average, which would suck if you're 45, married, female & never had an accident in your YUGO when you pay the same as the 18yr old who's crashed his 4th Ferrari.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 17:06
|
|
|
Internet Meme posted:That data would be useful only if they controlled for/stratified by age and gender. Not really because I'm trying to comment on the kind of person who buys Scion coupes, not the mechanical merits of the design. I'm assuming the data isn't controlled for age, gender, and temperament since that's what I'm interested in, and then assuming that things like higher losses for medical expenses and property damage are a result of the severity of crashes, inferring from there that people who buy Scion coupes are terrible drivers who get in worse crashes and destroy more things. Obviously a very very rough estimate and not really scientifically reliable in any way, but a decent wild-rear end guess all told.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 19:04
|
|
|
Cakefool posted:Insurance gets a free pass on discrimination because otherwise everyone would have to pay the flat national average, which would suck if you're 45, married, female & never had an accident in your YUGO when you pay the same as the 18yr old who's crashed his 4th Ferrari. "People who drive Honda Civics" are not and should never be a protected class of people, constitutionally speaking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 19:06
|
|
|
Cakefool posted:Insurance gets a free pass on discrimination because otherwise everyone would have to pay the flat national average, which w You don't have to remove personal history from the equation, just vehicle loss statistics. Plus it should be expensive as hell to insure a Yugo from a personal injury standpoint.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 19:11
|
|
|
sliderule posted:You don't have to remove personal history from the equation, just vehicle loss statistics. But if statistics show that car a will have more major & minor accidents per thousand vehicle/days than car c, why should the drivers of car c subsidise the claims of the car a drivers?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:04
|
|
|
Well also, if a car will cost more to fix because the parts are more expensive or they break more easily, then I don't see the problem with charging more in the first place. Otherwise you've got Toyota Yaris drivers subsidizing the costs of fixing some dude's Benz.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:06
|
|
|
Cakefool posted:But if statistics show that car a will have more major & minor accidents per thousand vehicle/days than car c, why should the drivers of car c subsidise the claims of the car a drivers? Not even accidents, there are a lot of cars that are theft concerns or cars that are associated with people who may have more vandalism claims.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:09
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:Well also, if a car will cost more to fix because the parts are more expensive or they break more easily, then I don't see the problem with charging more in the first place. Otherwise you've got Toyota Yaris drivers subsidizing the costs of fixing some dude's Benz. That was the point of the post in the first place... quote:Last time I was car shopping, I got a number of insurance quotes on different cars. Cars like the Honda Civic and Scion tC had higher insurance rates than other far more expensive cars even for me specifically Not much of your insurance is determined by how much the car costs, its determined by the accident rate of the car (has nothing to do with the car itself, but the demographics that drive the car) and the theft rate (demographics and their neighborhoods). Bill gates buys an integra then he'll get lumped in with the demographics. Probably would pay less on a nicer benz.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:30
|
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:Not much of your insurance is determined by how much the car costs, its determined by the accident rate of the car (has nothing to do with the car itself, but the demographics that drive the car) and the theft rate (demographics and their neighborhoods). Ugh, that's exactly what I was afraid of. That's just terrible statistical analysis. If someone tried to publish a study using that logic they'd get laughed out of my department.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:46
|
|
|
All I want to know is - how did the Aveo end up on that list, right next to the Escalade?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:56
|
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:Not much of your insurance is determined by how much the car costs, its determined by the accident rate of the car (has nothing to do with the car itself, but the demographics that drive the car) and the theft rate (demographics and their neighborhoods).
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 20:57
|
|
|
grover posted:So the BRZ and FR-S are going to be stupid expensive to insure, huh? The FR-S will be. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 21:23
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Did you pop the seats down by chance? I'm just curious if it adds a lot more storage space or not. I didn't get a chance to but regardless of how much space it creates, you'll still be bottlenecked by the narrow trunk opening or the space you get by moving the front seats forward to pass to the back seats. Definitely a no for large objects.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 22:10
|
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:Not much of your insurance is determined by how much the car costs, its determined by the accident rate of the car (has nothing to do with the car itself, but the demographics that drive the car) and the theft rate (demographics and their neighborhoods). Here's a fun one for you, the 2009-or-10 suzuki swift in the UK had a horrendous premium bump because in a low speed (10mph) collision it was possible to destroy both the front & rear bumpers, costing £2-4k to repair. On a £10k-ish car.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 22:11
|
|
|
coolskillrex remix posted:That was the point of the post in the first place... No, loss rate is distinct from accident rate. Loss measures only the amount of money paid or expected to be paid out by the insurance company. Accident rate is different because there's other ways to incur losses, and also because some accidents will create more losses than other accidents. Loss rate is a way of measuring more than just that an accident occurred. How expensive your car is, and the related tendency of how expensive it is to fix your car when things covered by insurance get broken, is a very important part of how insurance premiums are calculated. In my example, I was looking at stuff like medical payouts. I assumed first that, since it's a Toyota, it's going to perform similarly to other vehicles of similar size and age in terms of crash protection in an equally severe crash. Also, it'll only hold like 4-5 people max, so that will probably be no different fro mother similarly sized cars. Thus, for whatever reason, the Scion tends to incur more medical losses compared to other cars. I make the inference from there that this is because the crashes they get into are more severe or hurt more covered people somehow. Alternatively, there is a non-demographic design characteristic of some sort that leads them to injure people in a more expensive to treat way that is covered by insurance. And this ignores confounding factors such as the fact that the instant death of the driver often results in only limited medical losses. So it's really really vague, but since it was intended more as a joke, there you go. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Apr 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 23:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:18 |
|
|
10000lbsofbananas posted:I didn't get a chance to but regardless of how much space it creates, you'll still be bottlenecked by the narrow trunk opening or the space you get by moving the front seats forward to pass to the back seats. Definitely a no for large objects. Hatch + removable strut brace would fix this issue, although how much less effective or more expensive a removable strut brace will be compared to the trunk structure/bulkhead is hard to say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2012 23:35
|
|