|
There's actually a book about Pratchett's writing called Guilty Of Literature. (I haven't read it.) I also think he's made some similar complaints about the marginalization of genre fiction, although I can't find the quote. The one that made me say 'Wow, literature!' was Hogfather.
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:58 |
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:Atwood just released a collection of essays about science fiction. Her most recent series is dystopian sci-fi with environmentalist themes. She's not some sort of genre traitor or whatever you're implying here. I've read that series, it's heartbreaking and brilliant.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:48
|
|
|
Terry "The Rage" Pratchett posted:Why is it felt that the continued elevation of J K Rowling can only be achieved at the expense of other writers (Mistress of magic, News Review, last week)? Now we learn that prior to Harry Potter the world of fantasy was plagued with “knights and ladies morris-dancing to Greensleeves.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 19:12
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:I've read that series, it's heartbreaking and brilliant. To continue Atwood chat, I am really looking forward to the third book in that series (the existence of which I only heard about very recently). Oryx and Crake and Year of the Flood were both stunning.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 20:16
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:Atwood just released a collection of essays about science fiction. Her most recent series is dystopian sci-fi with environmentalist themes. She's not some sort of genre traitor or whatever you're implying here. Dunno what a genre traitor is, I was just commenting on the fact that Atwood is one of a very few authors operating in the science fiction genre that regularly gets classified as "acceptable literature," and for a long time she insisted very vocally that she didn't write science fiction but "speculative fiction." I don't know how she feels about it these days, but it was a hilarious brand of hairsplitting meant to placate critics before they cropped up. She's an excellent writer, but it just highlights how arbitrary the canon can be when even a writer who's that good feels the need to set herself outside the genre she works in for fear of being ghettoized.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 20:19
|
|
|
PateraOctopus posted:Dunno what a genre traitor is, I was just commenting on the fact that Atwood is one of a very few authors operating in the science fiction genre that regularly gets classified as "acceptable literature," and for a long time she insisted very vocally that she didn't write science fiction but "speculative fiction." I don't know how she feels about it these days, but it was a hilarious brand of hairsplitting meant to placate critics before they cropped up. She's an excellent writer, but it just highlights how arbitrary the canon can be when even a writer who's that good feels the need to set herself outside the genre she works in for fear of being ghettoized. Margaret Atwood still feels this way (or did up until recently); she set out her opinion on the matter across four full pages of the Guardian's supplement last year. I like her work, but she strikes me as incredibly self-aggrandising and almost delusional; in the piece she demanded her own genre (the "speculative fiction" you mentioned) and said science fiction novels are, without exception, of no literary worth. All in all, I lost quite a lot of respect for her when I read that article. She wrote herself into a corner describing the setting for a couple of her novels and, without irony, they fitted perfectly into the description of the entire science fiction genre she denounced as trite in the same piece. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 21:01
|
|
|
Just finished reading the first chapter of Dodger, a non-Discworld YA book due out in September. Looks interesting - an international conspiracy involving the attempted murder and possible rape of a teenage girl from the German aristocracy, with Charles Dickens paying a guttersnipe called Dodger to investigate. It's kind of dark, but Pterry once said you can tell his books for children apart from the ones for adults because the ones for kids are darker and more violent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 22:24
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Just finished reading the first chapter of Dodger, a non-Discworld YA book due out in September. Looks interesting - an international conspiracy involving the attempted murder and possible rape of a teenage girl from the German aristocracy, with Charles Dickens paying a guttersnipe called Dodger to investigate. It's kind of dark, but Pterry once said you can tell his books for children apart from the ones for adults because the ones for kids are darker and more violent. This honestly sounds more like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen than anything else. Minus the pointless indulgent sex scenes and endless cameos from Eastenders illuminati.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 01:05
|
|
|
The Supreme Court posted:Margaret Atwood still feels this way (or did up until recently); she set out her opinion on the matter across four full pages of the Guardian's supplement last year. I like her work, but she strikes me as incredibly self-aggrandising and almost delusional; in the piece she demanded her own genre (the "speculative fiction" you mentioned) and said science fiction novels are, without exception, of no literary worth. Are you talking about this piece? I didn't read that as her saying science fiction novels are of no literary worth--she seems to be doing quite a bit of eyebrow-raising toward the entire concept of literary worth throughout that article. I don't think Margaret Atwood looks down on the genre of science fiction, but she certainly goes to extreme lengths to try to classify herself outside of it. A few of her points in that article are kind of baffling though. If you want to classify Jules Verne as "not a true science fiction author" on the grounds that his work was grounded solidly in reality, you have to throw out that entire book he wrote about the Earth being hollow and full of dinosaurs. And then using The Martian Chronicles as her one example of extreme science fiction because it's not based in real science is just bizarre considering how eloquently and extensively she wrote about Bradbury after his recent death--she'd know that Bradbury himself vocally classified that novel as not science fiction for the very reason that it could never happen, and it's just weird to me that of all the classics of science fiction she might have chosen to use as her example, she used that. But none of this has anything to do with Terry Pratchett and I'm sorry for causing such a lengthy derail.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 06:49
|
|
|
Nilbop posted:This honestly sounds more like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen than anything else. Minus the pointless indulgent sex scenes and endless cameos from Eastenders illuminati. I read my very first Extraordinary Gentlemen the other day, in fact, and was particularly struck by the often-rather-gratuitous-seeming gently caress scenes. Glad it wasn't just me! (I've been hunting around for interesting, intelligent graphic novels for a middle schooler. Seeing Quatermain's wrinkly rear end banging vampire lady quickly consigned this one to the "nope" pile.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 15:34
|
|
|
Tartarus Sauce posted:I read my very first Extraordinary Gentlemen the other day, in fact, and was particularly struck by the often-rather-gratuitous-seeming gently caress scenes. Glad it wasn't just me! LEG is really quite readable for the first two volumes, but by the time Century roles by (in particular the 1960's) and Moore is no longer hampered by DC keeping him in check it's descended into full-on "what was I ever thinking reading this" mode. I can't imagine Pratchett will have, for example, Dickens bed down with a woman and shemale for 20 pages for the sole reason that the plot has come to a massive standstill, or ape a 70s movie by having that woman's astral form rape-chased by the baddie represented by a giant green cock while her real body gets roofied by Tom Marvolo Riddle. I can't remember if I've ever seen Pterry comment on Moore's work but I'd imagine he's definitely read some of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 16:12
|
|
|
Tartarus Sauce posted:(I've been hunting around for interesting, intelligent graphic novels for a middle schooler. Seeing Quatermain's wrinkly rear end banging vampire lady quickly consigned this one to the "nope" pile.) Going on a minor derail here, but I would recommend The Unwritten, Button Man: The Killing Game, Girl Genius and Judge Dredd: America. If your middle schooler is old enough for a bit of (furry) nudity and adult themes, then add any number of volumes of Blacksad to the list.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 19:48
|
|
|
Nilbop posted:LEG is really quite readable for the first two volumes, but by the time Century roles by (in particular the 1960's) and Moore is no longer hampered by DC keeping him in check it's descended into full-on "what was I ever thinking reading this" mode.  Glad that I only read the first two volumes now. Even then, the sex was definitely gratuitous. Definitely not something Pterry would do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 19:52
|
|
|
Is anybody going to the Discworld convention in Birmingham? I was on the guest list and was notified that I have until tomorrow to use my tickets. I'm still on the fence about going, so if any other goons are going to be present (Terry is supposed to show up) let me know. I've never been to a convention of any kind (I won't dress up or anything, I just want to meet Terry before the disease makes it impossible) so this might be fun or traumatizing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 21:52
|
|
|
Tartarus Sauce posted:
What about Bone, by Jeff Smith? I think that is pretty damned great.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 22:05
|
|
|
Non Serviam posted:Is anybody going to the Discworld convention in Birmingham? I was on the guest list and was notified that I have until tomorrow to use my tickets. I'm going, and I've been going to DWCons since 1998 so I know a lot of the regulars too. Turn up, find me - my pass will have my SA user name on it, or should have - and I'll introduce you around. And yes, Pterry will be there (barring ill health). There will almost certainly be a signing, and there's also the Kaffee Klatches so you could be randomly drawn to have an hour long social chat with the man himself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 22:27
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I'm going, and I've been going to DWCons since 1998 so I know a lot of the regulars too. Turn up, find me - my pass will have my SA user name on it, or should have - and I'll introduce you around. Do you have a place to stay? wanna share a room? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 23:01
|
|
|
Non Serviam posted:Do you have a place to stay? wanna share a room? https://www.nitenite.com is brilliant and cheap stay there..like £38 a room and boutique.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 23:39
|
|
|
Fat Guy Sexting posted:https://www.nitenite.com is brilliant and cheap stay there..like £38 a room and boutique. Way too expensive for me. I have to fly there from DA CONTINENT. I think I'll have to go next year 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 23:56
|
|
|
Non Serviam posted:Do you have a place to stay? wanna share a room? I have a room in the hotel, but there's no room to share - sorry. I can ask around and see if someone has a spare bed, it does happen sometimes. Give me 24 hours. There isn't a DWCon next year, they come in alternate years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2012 00:24
|
|
|
Urdnot Fire posted:
That review doesn't do it justice. 1969 Century is not as good as the previous volumes and does have those odd sex scenes, but it also has some interestingly creepy moments combining the occult with the rampant drug use of the era. It also looks like that's preparing for the finale which is going to be a complete opposite and be a cold, angry fascist England; a return to the Big Brother days. And 1910 is a fun read on its own, albeit also a bit odd as it "adapts" the Threepenny opera in real life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2012 03:29
|
|
|
Non Serviam, I've asked around and found a few links where people have been looking for room shares as recently as last week. It would be better if you asked yourself; after all, I don't even know what gender you are. http://www.discworldstamps.co.uk/forum/index.php http://www.facebook.com/groups/131034043609242/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/dwcon_org_2012
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2012 10:28
|
|
|
Ah, DWCon. I haven't been in a long time, (my last one was when it was still at HInckley). They're usually pretty fun, and my best friend has been on the committee for the last 2 times. You'll see the AFPers and their insanity, as well as some fantastic events. Pterry is always there, as are Briggs, Bernard, and other hangers on. No power in earth could drag me back to one, and none have been as good as my first when it was at the Adelphi in Liverpool. See all the events, or just stay in the bar, that'll be just as good. There's a reason sci-fi/fantasy cons are all about the bars. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2012 22:30
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Ah, DWCon. I haven't been in a long time, (my last one was when it was still at HInckley). They're usually pretty fun, and my best friend has been on the committee for the last 2 times. Oh, who's your friend? First name or handle will do; I probably know them. And what's keeping you away now?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2012 00:53
|
|
|
Ladylark. I grew very tired of AFP's 'we're SOOO crazy!' attitude. Although, apparently AFP doesn't even exist in that form any more though. No meets up and down the country every few weeks, the newsgroup is apparently a ghost town (hardly surprising since who uses usenet any more?), and the sole thing that exists is the IRC channel and meetups like at DWCon. I've just no interest in going any more. I like the books, but the fandom has moved on (and seems to be winding down a little, to be honest), and I'm fine with that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2012 21:31
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Ladylark. I grew very tired of AFP's 'we're SOOO crazy!' attitude. Yeah, AFP mutated some time in the middle of last decade and a lot of the regulars left. The ones who weren't SOOO crazy are mostly the ones on the IRC channel now. I think the fandom is winding down because Pterry has been so much of a participant in it. Where fans of Rowling or King or Meyer are fans of the books, Pratchett fans are fans of the person who wrote them. But books last forever; people don't. There'll still be Stephen King conventions twenty years after he's gone, but I think when Pterry dies the Discworld Conventions will stop. It just won't be the same. drat, I'm getting maudlin. Someone say how fantastic that bit in that book where someone does something is, please?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2012 23:35
|
|
|
Nobby's reaction to the offer of being king - "Vimes would go spare!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2012 23:38
|
|
|
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2012 03:29
|
|
|
ThaGhettoJew posted:
Anyone else assume the Devices the dwarves apparently find once in a while in deep rock are the kind of tech mentioned in Strata?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2012 21:09
|
|
|
penguinmambo posted:Anyone else assume the Devices the dwarves apparently find once in a while in deep rock are the kind of tech mentioned in Strata? Or relics like Thing from the Bromelaid
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2012 23:18
|
|
|
I'm actually kind of surprised despite it's web presence and the narrative law of its universe being "all fictions are probable, even when they contradict*" that the fandom seems to have a big lack of terrible OC presences. Maybe i should just be grateful. * Someone pointed this out to me when tried to explain you could pretty much do anything with,say, witch characters so long as you stuck to some fictional archetype, and I realized just like you have the Old Guard witches and the New Age witches, Tiffany is also pretty much a 'normal' witch by the standards a modern youngadult audience would judge jer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 00:01
|
|
|
So I'm rereading Thief of Time, and I get to the point where the book is talking about Chaos Theory, and how the character find the idea 'strangely attractive'. Bloody hell. I've never known a writer like Terry for leaving little landmines made of pun in his works.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 01:16
|
|
|
Wolfechu posted:I've never known a writer like Terry for leaving little landmines made of pun in his works. Is this irony? I'm too tired to be able to discern.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 01:28
|
|
|
rejutka posted:Is this irony? I'm too tired to be able to discern. Not at all. I usually find something I've never noticed the sneaky bugger slipping into the narrative on a reread. But then, I'm kinda slow. Took me years to pick up on 'looks a bit elvish', and I thought I'd gotten most of the references in Soul Music.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 01:33
|
|
|
I got a newsletter from Goodreads about Terry doing a novel with Stephen Baxter. Which, for me, is great, because it's my two favorite authors. Does anyone know anything else about this?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 04:45
|
|
|
Narzack posted:I got a newsletter from Goodreads about Terry doing a novel with Stephen Baxter. Which, for me, is great, because it's my two favorite authors. Does anyone know anything else about this? It's called The Long Earth, and it's out on Thursday in the UK. The rough premise is that enough alternate Earths are found that everyone can have their own. Wolfechu, did you get the second reference at the end where one of Susan's schoolmates says there's a guy working down at the chip shop and she'd swear he was elvish? rejutka: In case you don't understand the pun, strange attractors are part of the mathematics of chaos theory.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 08:13
|
|
|
Jedit posted:It's called The Long Earth, and it's out on Thursday in the UK. The rough premise is that enough alternate Earths are found that everyone can have their own. ...Dammit, there's always going to be one more pun over the hill, isn't there?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 09:57
|
|
|
Jedit posted:rejutka: In case you don't understand the pun, strange attractors are part of the mathematics of chaos theory. Nah, I got that. I was tired and read Wolfechu's post as "I find it odd that writers like Terry have puns in their work" and my brain sort of curled up and whimpered. A true failure of reading comprehension on my part.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 12:06
|
|
|
Wolfechu posted:...Dammit, there's always going to be one more pun over the hill, isn't there? You should watch the animated series of Soul Music if you think you've found them all. They get to play with some of the visual jokes that didn't quite translate to the page.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2012 19:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:58 |
|
|
There was a knock on my door this morning. I went downstairs and found a package from Amazon. I opened it and found a new Terry Pratchett book. Yay. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2012 08:42
|
|
