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But what does that have to do with the patronage system? (I probably should have quoted more of the post)
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Jun 25, 2012 21:20
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Did temporary enslavement exist as a punishment for a crime?
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Jun 25, 2012 22:24
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Some questions about education. What was Roman education like and who was it avaliable to? Was it expensive? Were non-citizens able to get an education? Probably not women, right? The Romans respected bootstrapping, does this mean that formal education was not seen as necessary for a career? Are there any remnants of the Roman system in today's education?
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Jun 25, 2012 22:39
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I'm assuming Exile would be to the Romans what Jail Time is to us today? In terms of punishment.
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Jun 25, 2012 22:50
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Morholt posted:The Romans respected bootstrapping, does this mean that formal education was not seen as necessary for a career? Are there any remnants of the Roman system in today's education? Latin was a mandatory subject when my grandpa went to high school. Up till the turn of the 20th century, a lot of scholarly articles were written in Latin, and up 'til the 19th almost all of them were.
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Jun 26, 2012 00:14
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Jimmy Smuts posted:Did temporary enslavement exist as a punishment for a crime? You could become an indentured servant to pay off debts, but you couldn't become a slave against your will were you a citizen. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:I'm assuming Exile would be to the Romans what Jail Time is to us today? In terms of punishment. Yes, there was no prison sentence in ancient Rome. For example the only (?) prison in Rome, Tullianum was basically a glorified hole in the ground where they held prisoners before their execution. Occasionally foreign leaders captured in war who were to be used in Triumph and then killed were there as well. Because Caesar wasn't able to hold his as soon as the Gallic War was over, Vercingetorix was in there for five years. Sometimes they would just have the foreign leaders in a comfy mansion before their execution, and Caesar probably would have respected Vercingetorix enough to give him that if he had the time. Some other enemies like Hannibal though...let's say that you don't have to wonder why he committed suicide. Pretty badass last words too. Hannibal posted:"Let us relieve the Romans from the anxiety they have so long experienced, since they think it tries their patience too much to wait for an old man's death." He literally went to the ends of Earth until he got tired of running away - I wouldn't be exaggerating too much if I said that the Romans fought couple of wars just to get their hands on him. Crappy death for an awesome general. But at least Septimus Severus was nice enough to restore his reported gravesite into magnificent condition when it was found centuries later. Maybe he was afraid that a particular ghost would come knocking at the gates again.
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Jun 26, 2012 00:57
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physeter posted:I've been thinking of doing a write up but since it's such a central question I'll defer to Grand Fromage. It is really important to literally everything. There is a modern parallel you will be familiar with. You go to your local godfather and ask for a loan, he says sure. And some day, for this service, I may call upon you for a favor. This is the basis of Roman society. Patrons are the nobility who cultivate clients. Your patron is someone of standing, typically a patrician or an equestrian, but anyone with wealth and power can be one. There are freedmen and plebeian patrons. The patron is expected to take care of his clients, providing them with money, food, legal assistance, wedding gifts, whatever. A patron should be generous--must be generous or the clients will go elsewhere. In return for this, the clients owe him loyalty. Clients are the people who are giving that loyalty to their patron. A client can be anybody in society, and the client will receive benefits from the patron in exchange for supporting him. The client will do favors for the patron if asked. Clients are expected to vote for their patron in any election situation. Clients will even fight for them at times--if your patron needs a street brawl for some reason, guess who he's calling on. It's a close relationship. Typically every morning, the clients will line up at the patron's house. A noble Roman house has a lot of public space, the atrium at the front is for this purpose. Clients show up, see their patron, renew their fealty. The patron will give them whatever aid they need. The clients are almost part of the extended family of the patron, it's a very close and personal relationship. As a noble, the number and extent of your clients determine much of your power. You can have all the money in the world, but if you don't have the clients it's not that useful. This is part of why Caesar was so dangerous and powerful. He was in debt up to his eyeballs because of his generosity, but that generosity bought the loyalty of a gigantic number of people. I do suspect this ends up being the basis of vassalage later. They have a lot in common. Supeerme posted:Can someone tell me why is the Western Rome are always shown in either Red or Eastern Rome, Purple? Was there any clear reason of the colors itself? It's just a modern convention as far as I know. Purple was a rich color and the east was a lot richer. It was reserved for the imperial family though. Supeerme posted:How much of our knowledge about the Roman Empire came from them in the first place? Was most of our knowledge came from the Church? Most of it comes from the Romans themselves, by way of the church who copied the older texts. We have very few actual Roman books, what we have are lots of medieval copies. That plus a ton of archaeology. Per posted:So, how exactly did this work? Fines were the most common punishment. If a fine wasn't sufficient,  . Imprisonment isn't used as punishment until modern times, execution was the standard way of dealing with serious crimes. Exile was usually used for people too respectable to just kill, and indentured servitude was for debts. There was house arrest though, some nobles would just be imprisoned within their estate.Morholt posted:Some questions about education. What was Roman education like and who was it avaliable to? Was it expensive? Were non-citizens able to get an education? Probably not women, right? I posted about this early in the thread, but the East Asian model of rote memorization/regurgitation is very similar to Roman public education. There's debate on how widely it was available, at the least the upper classes had it. Education was available to women and slaves but only through tutors as far as I know. Educated slaves were very valuable.
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Jun 26, 2012 02:30
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How did Romans enforce their laws? Was there a specific division of soldiers kept around in cities/towns for this purpose? Did they just use the Legions? Or was there a separate entity that served as a police force?
Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 03:18
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Vigilance posted:How did Romans enforce their laws? Was there a specific division of soldiers kept around in cities/towns for this purpose? Both, kind of. They had a group called the vigiles, who served as police and firemen. They weren't technically soldiers though they were organized that way. There were also urban cohorts, which were kind of like an ancient SWAT. Those only existed in a few major cities. The vigiles we know of are in Rome, I don't know if we have any information on law enforcement in other cities. Also both of these are Augustan inventions. Best as I can tell law enforcement elsewhere was done by the army, under the watch of local magistrates. There would've been private security too. The army also served as firemen as needed.
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Jun 26, 2012 03:23
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I'm actually a history major who took the unfortunate path of choosing American history as a focus. As a result, I've felt myself wanting to branch out. I was thinking of actually writing my senior dissertation on Sicily, where my family's from. I know this is a broad question, but do you know anything interesting about Roman Sicily or any suggestions on focus points for the topic? I know it was seized during the Republican period. I'm sure it and Malta remained very strategic points for the empire as its right in the middle of the Mediterranean. Also, was there any sort of conflict that came about when the empire split? I know the Byzantines had control of the island later on as they were the ones who eventually lost it to the North Africans.
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Jun 26, 2012 05:14
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Grand Fromage posted:Best as I can tell law enforcement elsewhere was done by the army, under the watch of local magistrates. There would've been private security too. The army also served as firemen as needed. What kinda methods did the Roman firefighters use? Also on the subject of crime and punishment, what other "disciplinary measures" did they use besides the more commonly known crucifixion/enslavement/arena sentences (and occasional beheadings). Anything from lowest offense to highest. I guess the weirder the better Alan Smithee fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 06:11
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Alan Smithee posted:What kinda methods did the Roman firefighters use? Firebreaks, mostly. Demolish a ring of buildings around the fire and let it burn itself out. They also had a pump engine to spray water, and bucket brigades or wet blankets. Depended on the fire--a big one was firebreak time. This is likely where the story of soldiers running around setting fires during the Great Fire of Rome comes from, soldiers demolishing a firebreak around the blaze to contain it. Alan Smithee posted:Also on the subject of crime and punishment, what other "disciplinary measures" did they use besides the more commonly known crucifixion/enslavement/arena sentences (and occasional beheadings). Anything from lowest offense to highest. I guess the weirder the better The Tarpeian Rock is a fun one, a serious criminal (traitors) would get thrown off that during Republican times. There was also a special staircase people were thrown down as an execution.
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Jun 26, 2012 06:21
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There were rumors Crassus got mad rich by basically running fire protection rackets that he may or may not have started himself, any truth to them?Grand Fromage posted:The Tarpeian Rock is a fun one, a serious criminal (traitors) would get thrown off that during Republican times. There was also a special staircase people were thrown down as an execution. I imagine it had banana peels, tacks, and ball bearings on it? DarkCrawler posted:Some other enemies like Hannibal though...let's say that you don't have to wonder why he committed suicide. Pretty badass last words too. Back on the subject, I know Grand Fromage said  why Hannibal never went all the way with Rome. Wasn't it basically he was no longer being supplied by the Carthaginian counsel at home? They let him do his thing but when they had Rome in a corner the Carthaginians basically got afraid that Hannibal was getting too powerful, at least that's what I got from all those History Channel specials. My favorite bit from one of the docs was after the Romans came back from PWII (GREATEST ROMAN GENERATION) to defeat Carthage again they imposed even more drastic financial tribute on them, when the Carthagians were weeping while counting it all out Hannibal just...laughed. When they asked how dare he laugh, he told them all off saying that staying their hand when they had Rome right where they wanted them was the time to weep.
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Jun 26, 2012 06:22
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Alan Smithee posted:There were rumors Crassus got mad rich by basically running fire protection rackets that he may or may not have started himself, any truth to them? Yep. No one knows if he actually started fires, he probably wouldn't have had to, but he created his own fire brigade. He'd go to a fire and refuse to do anything until the burning property and everything surrounding it, which would also catch ablaze, was sold to him at a discount. Then they'd put out the fire and suddenly Crassus has more valuable real estate. Crassus eventually had a personal wealth equal to that of the treasury of the entire empire. This is likely why Augustus made the vigiles firemen in the first place.
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Jun 26, 2012 06:34
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Grand Fromage posted:Yep. No one knows if he actually started fires, he probably wouldn't have had to, but he created his own fire brigade. He'd go to a fire and refuse to do anything until the burning property and everything surrounding it, which would also catch ablaze, was sold to him at a discount. Then they'd put out the fire and suddenly Crassus has more valuable real estate. Crassus eventually had a personal wealth equal to that of the treasury of the entire empire. Makes the apocryphal story about the Persians pouring molten gold down his throat after they killed him all the sweeter, really.
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Jun 26, 2012 06:43
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The Janministrator posted:I'm actually a history major who took the unfortunate path of choosing American history as a focus. As a result, I've felt myself wanting to branch out. I was thinking of actually writing my senior dissertation on Sicily, where my family's from. I know this is a broad question, but do you know anything interesting about Roman Sicily or any suggestions on focus points for the topic? I know it was seized during the Republican period. I'm sure it and Malta remained very strategic points for the empire as its right in the middle of the Mediterranean. Also, was there any sort of conflict that came about when the empire split? I know the Byzantines had control of the island later on as they were the ones who eventually lost it to the North Africans. This isn't really going to answer your question in regards to Rome, and I know this is a Roman thread, but I'd like to offer a suggestion. Roman Sicily is interesting, there were a few servile revolts there, and some battles in the Punic Wars, but aside from that Sicily basically served as a breadbasket for Rome up until Egypt became the food supply for Italy. To be honest I think you could write a pretty good senior dissertation on Sicily based on the Athenian invasion of Sicily during the Peloponnesian War. Again, not Roman in nature, but a really interesting aspect of Sicily's history in classical times. I only took a few courses in Roman/Classical history during my undergrad so I can't point out many specific instances in Sicilian history under Rome which could support a full dissertation, but there were a few significant naval battles in the area during the Punic Wars if that helps. Claudius Pulcher and the sacred chickens is one of my favorite stories from Roman history, I can elaborate later if anyone is interested/no one else tells the story first.
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Jun 26, 2012 10:08
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I also was going to suggest focusing on Greek Sicily instead. Roman Sicily was one big farm full of slaves and not much else.
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Jun 26, 2012 10:27
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The Janministrator posted:I'm actually a history major who took the unfortunate path of choosing American history as a focus. As a result, I've felt myself wanting to branch out. I was thinking of actually writing my senior dissertation on Sicily, where my family's from. I know this is a broad question, but do you know anything interesting about Roman Sicily or any suggestions on focus points for the topic? I know it was seized during the Republican period. I'm sure it and Malta remained very strategic points for the empire as its right in the middle of the Mediterranean. Also, was there any sort of conflict that came about when the empire split? I know the Byzantines had control of the island later on as they were the ones who eventually lost it to the North Africans.
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Jun 26, 2012 10:32
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I thought you'd love these news just out today  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-18579868 "One of Europe's largest hoards of Iron Age coins has been unearthed in Jersey and could be worth up to £10m, according to an expert. The Roman and Celtic coins, which date from the 1st Century BC, were found by two metal detector enthusiasts. Dr Philip de Jersey, a former Celtic coin expert at Oxford University, said the haul was "extremely exciting and very significant". He said each individual coin was worth between £100 and £200. The exact number of coins found has not been established, but archaeologists said the hoard weighed about three quarters of a tonne and could contain about 50,000 coins. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote It was found under a hedge so perhaps this is an early example of hedge fund trading” End Quote Deputy Rob Duhamel Environment Minister The exact location of the hoard has not been revealed by the authorities but Environment Minister, Deputy Rob Duhamel, said he would do everything he could to protect the site. He said: "Sites like these do need protection because there is speculation there might even be more. "It is a very exciting piece of news and perhaps harks back to our cultural heritage in terms of finance. It was found under a hedge so perhaps this is an early example of hedge fund trading." It was found by Reg Mead and Richard Miles in a field in the east of Jersey. They had been searching for more than 30 years after hearing rumours a farmer had discovered silver coins while working on his land. Mr Mead and Mr Miles worked with experts from Jersey Heritage to slowly unearth the treasure. A large mound of clay containing the coins has now been taken to a safe location to be studied. It is the first hoard of coins found in the island for more than 60 years. Several hoards of Celtic coins have been found in Jersey before but the largest was in 1935 at La Marquanderie when more than 11,000 were discovered. A crane was brought in to take about two tonnes of earth out of the ground Dr de Jersey said it would take months for archaeologists to find out the full value of the haul. He said: "It is extremely exciting and very significant. It will add a huge amount of new information, not just about the coins themselves but the people who were using them. "Most archaeologists with an interest in coins spend their lives in libraries writing about coins and looking at pictures of coins. "To actually go out and excavate one in a field, most of us never get that opportunity. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity." The ownership of the coins is unclear. Mr Mead said he had asked the States of Jersey for clarification. Deputy Duhamel said the owners of the site had indicated they would like to see the whole hoard on display at the Jersey Museum or the archive."
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Jun 26, 2012 12:45
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For a split second I thought they meant New Jersey. "Yeah da fuckin Romans were in New Jersey how bout dat? Don't know nothin about it"
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Jun 26, 2012 12:53
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Coolio. Though the best news I saw recently was this one: http://news.yahoo.com/roman-jewellery-found-ancient-japan-tomb-163550978.htmlquote:Glass jewellery believed to have been made by Roman craftsmen has been found in an ancient tomb in Japan, researchers said Friday, in a sign the empire's influence may have reached the edge of Asia. I always wondered if we'd find anything in Japan. This may have been linked earlier, I forgot where I found it. Like the Roman artifacts found in Korea, there's no evidence of a direct contact and this was likely traded to the Chinese and then resold to the Japanese. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 13:00
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Vigilance posted:How did Romans enforce their laws? Was there a specific division of soldiers kept around in cities/towns for this purpose? Did they just use the Legions? Or was there a separate entity that served as a police force? Anyway, for a Great Man like Pompey, he probably couldn't tell you even a small fraction of the names of any of his tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of clients throughout Italy and beyond. Forget about the clients of his clients. But he has a staff of slaves and freedmen whose job it is to handle his clientela, and if you mess with them, they might decide to mess with you. Chase you down, haul you before the court, or just kill you if you're not dangerous/important enough. It's a massive social network that snakes through just about everything, and plugs alot of holes that would otherwise have made their society unmanageable. Tewdrig posted:Would a young guy with ambition go negotiate with an old, rich man to become a client, or were these family ties?
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Jun 26, 2012 13:46
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Supeerme posted:Can someone tell me why is the Western Rome are always shown in either Red or Eastern Rome, Purple? Was there any clear reason of the colors itself? The reason the Eastern Empire was purple is the old Imperial palace was pretty much covered in purple coloured marble. There was a whole room made out of purple marble where the heir was to be born. The account of the Crusaders showing up in Constantinople may be one of the best thing I've ever read. How overawed and amazed they where at the city. Richer then any other in history (a little hyperbole but not by much given the city wasn't sacked for 900 years and had the wealth of the Empire in it).
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Jun 26, 2012 17:16
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sbaldrick posted:The account of the Crusaders showing up in Constantinople may be one of the best thing I've ever read. How overawed and amazed they where at the city. Richer then any other in history (a little hyperbole but not by much given the city wasn't sacked for 900 years and had the wealth of the Empire in it). Those really are hilarious. Just imagine being in the most civilized city in the world, a place with free health care and female doctors, and seeing this horde of unwashed french coming up to your gates demanding passage to the levant. Alexios basically took them all in small groups, guarded the whole time, and showed them around what civilization actually looked like AND IF THEY WERE ON THEIR BEST BEHAVIOR they'd let them drink. It was essentially like those scam student tours in european cities where you get two drink tickets and entrance to a club. All to keep a bunch of drunk nords from burning the place down.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:14
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FizFashizzle posted:All to keep a bunch of drunk nords from burning the place down. Which they eventually did anyway, during the "Fourth Crusade" in 1204. The quotes are pretty much deserved - the crusaders never got anywhere near the Holy Land, just took advantage of political infighting in Constantinople to depose the current Byzantine emperor, sack the city and set up a Frankish emperor on the throne. Relationships between the crusaders and the Byzantines were always pretty tense. Both groups saw each other as religious heretics for a start, the Byzantines saw the Franks as basically backwoods hicks reliant on crude military tactics and driven by religious zealotry and the Franks thought the Byzantines were cowardly, egg-head intellectuals and soft on the Muslims. It's actually horribly reminiscent of how some Europeans look on the US (and vice versa). Cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
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Jun 26, 2012 20:10
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FizFashizzle posted:Those really are hilarious. Just imagine being in the most civilized city in the world, a place with free health care and female doctors, and seeing this horde of unwashed french coming up to your gates demanding passage to the levant. The best thing about it was the leaders going to see the Emperor on his giant mechanical throne with singing birds and things. Which everyone would think was a legend if during the 4th Crusade it hadn't broken when they tried to move it after setting the palace on fire.
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Jun 26, 2012 20:55
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Someone mentioned the Roman dodecahedrons earlier in the thread, but is there other weird mysteries out there regarding roman history? Like places we are certain existed from texts, but can't place or something similiar?
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Jun 26, 2012 21:47
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Christ knows how long ago now, but there was a thread in D&D or GBS about some old Roman books or scrolls that had just been discovered in an ancient library somewhere (villa of Pliny perhaps?), and while they were too fragile to open, might be able to be scanned via MRI or something, and that there could be lost works by Aristotle or whoever among them. Anyone know if anything ever happened with them?
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Jun 26, 2012 22:00
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Trump posted:Someone mentioned the Roman dodecahedrons earlier in the thread, but is there other weird mysteries out there regarding roman history? Very few people are aware that Roman empire invented Christianity. http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/ quote:This latest ground-breaking work in Christian scholarship reveals a new and revolutionary understanding of the origin of Christianity, explaining what is the New Testament, who is the real Jesus, and how Christ's second coming already occurred. The book Caesar's Messiah shows that Jesus was the invention of the Roman Imperial Court. Their purpose: to offer a vision of a “peaceful Messiah” who would serve as an alternative to the revolutionary leaders who were rocking first-century Israel and threatening Rome. This discovery is based on the parallels found between the Gospels and the works of the historian Josephus, which occur IN SEQUENCE. Hemp Knight posted:Anyone know if anything ever happened with them? 
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Jun 26, 2012 22:11
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Trump posted:Someone mentioned the Roman dodecahedrons earlier in the thread, but is there other weird mysteries out there regarding roman history? Well, there are a lot of important places from antiquity whose exact site is more or less unknown or disputed - gravesites and the like, the kind of stuff we lose track of fairly frequently in modern times too. Sometimes it's more surprising that we know what we do about gravesites - like Hannibal's. I'm drawing a blank on glaring mysteries other than the dodecahedron, so I'll leave that to Grand Fromage. Actually, I'm curious - has much work been done to try to find legionary mass graves made after battles? I can only imagine that mass graves must have been fairly common practice given the casualty count of a large battle in antiquity, though I've never read about them specifically. I'm not as up to date on the archeology side of Roman history as I should be, but couldn't this possibly produce more Vindolanda tablet-esque artifacts, or at least a lot of armor and weapons/an eagle? I guess the obstacle is that most of these mass graves are probably on developed land at this point, like anything Roman. Edit: Oh! There is the Roman navigational computer, which we only recently figured out the purpose of - it was certainly one of those mysteries from its discovery in ~1900 until about 6 years ago. Actually, the one we still have was probably looted from the Greeks during the conquest, but it was incredibly sophisticated and I have a hard time believing that the Romans didn't adopt it more generally, given that there was no practicality barrier in place like Hero's steam toys would have had to overcome to become proper steam engines. It was an analog computer designed to track the movement of the sun and moon for maritime navigation as far as we can tell. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jun 27, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 23:54
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The 4th Crusade has got to be one of the most shameful events in all of history. Putting aside the civilian losses during the sacking, which were considerable, the amount of priceless artifacts and long-forgotten knowledge that was maliciously destroyed in the orgy of violence can never be properly estimated. The fact that this tragedy was completely senseless and easily avoidable just makes everything that much worse.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:27
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Nenonen posted:Very few people are aware that Roman empire invented Christianity. Not Christianity exactly but so many important traditions and beliefs that people think come straight from 0-30 AD were created by Roman Christians way after Jesus or anyone who knew him died. But that's not a mystery, cursory reading of Christian history tells you that the Roman Empire and Romans have more to do with modern Christianity then Jesus of Nazareth ever did. (And the fact that Jesus happened to be Jewish isn't the smallest reason for that)
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Jun 27, 2012 00:36
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DarkCrawler posted:Not Christianity exactly but so many important traditions and beliefs that people think come straight from 0-30 AD were created by Roman Christians way after Jesus or anyone who knew him died. But that's not a mystery, cursory reading of Christian history tells you that the Roman Empire and Romans have more to do with modern Christianity then Jesus of Nazareth ever did. It's incredible when you really think about it. Christianity is a fascinating subject- its history, lore, mythos. And its level of importance in history cannot be shied away from. It's still here and arguably stronger than ever. And it's all because of... Rome. The very existence of Christianity is a response to the Roman world- a new different worldview as opposed to the Roman worldview. (In the minds of the early Christians and Jewish Christians at least)
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Jun 27, 2012 00:47
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The 4th Crusade has got to be one of the most shameful events in all of history. Putting aside the civilian losses during the sacking, which were considerable, the amount of priceless artifacts and long-forgotten knowledge that was maliciously destroyed in the orgy of violence can never be properly estimated. The fact that this tragedy was completely senseless and easily avoidable just makes everything that much worse. As bad as it was, it was nothing compared to the Mongol sack of baghdad. The rivers ran black with ink from all the books that were destroyed, and they even destroyed all their irrigation systems. I can't remember thr exact details but even the Mongol high comman was like "dude poo poo what the gently caress?"
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Jun 27, 2012 01:01
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FizFashizzle posted:As bad as it was, it was nothing compared to the Mongol sack of baghdad. The rivers ran black with ink from all the books that were destroyed, and they even destroyed all their irrigation systems. That was just an awful period of history in general. Within a span of just over 50 years the two greatest cities in the world, both crown jewels of two of the most important civilizations in history, were utterly destroyed.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:05
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How did the Crusaders get away with sacking Constantinople? Did the Pope excommunicate them?
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Jun 27, 2012 01:13
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:How did the Crusaders get away with sacking Constantinople? Did the Pope excommunicate them? Why, it was a heathen city with a heretic emperor. The pope was all kinds of stoked about it.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:14
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DarkCrawler posted:Not Christianity exactly but so many important traditions and beliefs that people think come straight from 0-30 AD were created by Roman Christians way after Jesus or anyone who knew him died. But that's not a mystery, cursory reading of Christian history tells you that the Roman Empire and Romans have more to do with modern Christianity then Jesus of Nazareth ever did. No, no. No, no, no. No. You've got it all wrong, go read the link I posted and watch Atwell's interview again. Jesus Christ was created by Emperor Titus as a false messiah to trick the Jews. Or, as Joseph Atwill so well puts it: "The Roman Emperor had many titles - one of them was Jesus Christ." There you heard it!  Further food for thought: Excerpt from a review posted:It is emotionally hard to learn that the character of the Virgin Mary was really a satire of Cannibal Mary during the siege of Jerusalem, and that a close reading of the Gospel of John shows that Lazarus is taken out of the tomb only to provide the substance for a cannibal feast. As the text says 'they made him a supper' (KJV,ASV, NASB,LITV translations).
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Jun 27, 2012 01:16
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You. Shut up.Hemp Knight posted:Christ knows how long ago now, but there was a thread in D&D or GBS about some old Roman books or scrolls that had just been discovered in an ancient library somewhere (villa of Pliny perhaps?), and while they were too fragile to open, might be able to be scanned via MRI or something, and that there could be lost works by Aristotle or whoever among them. Villa of the Papyri in Herculaneum. Yes, they're working on them. It takes a long rear end time to get a text out of even a good papyrus, and I imagine a charred, rolled up one is much worse. Most of the texts are Philodemus, a late 1st century BC Epicurean philosopher in Campania. I know that some more Ennius (wrote the first Latin hexameter epic, the Annales, a history of Rome from its founding to his day) been found and is being worked on as well. It's way too early for publication yet so I have no idea what else may have been found, or what state the excavation is in now. I do know it's actively being worked on, however.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:17
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:How did the Crusaders get away with sacking Constantinople? Did the Pope excommunicate them? Soldiers never go hungry.
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