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KillerQueen posted:This would be pretty neat! Screamy Barbarians best Barbarians. Maybe it could be a Adventurer–Tier talent like the one that lets paladins take a Cleric spell?
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Jul 19, 2012 04:14
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Spiderfist Island posted:Maybe it could be a Adventurer–Tier talent like the one that lets paladins take a Cleric spell? Having it's own progression track would be nice. Barbarians only get 5 talents total as it is.
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Jul 19, 2012 05:14
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I like the idea of more focused, class-specific multiclassing. It seems to limit the chance of unintentional broken builds while giving the simplest classes optional customizability. I'd also like to see a general feet available to everyone that gives a stunting/flavor bonus on basic ranged and melee attacks. Same deal as the other improv feats of the magic classes: +0 to +3 at GM's discretion, or just a flat +2.
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Jul 19, 2012 14:26
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So we made characters last night, and people had more trouble with their Unique Features than I was expecting. Maybe it's because we're all coming from D&D but it seems like people are trying to think of them in terms of what they will let them DO rather than something ABOUT their character, like they're trying to come up with abilities rather than... whatever a Unique Feature is supposed to represent. I'm not sure how to steer them in the right direction. There are a couple that were settled on that I'm not sure how I feel about, maybe I need to talk to the players more and find out exactly what they're looking for. I'd really like your input on them. One player wants to be able to "communicate and empathize with animals". I think this one's OK because the scope is limited. I can't remember where but I read a book once where a character could communicate with animals but it was mostly pointless because animals are mostly concerned with food and not much else. I'm still not sure if it's a good idea for a Unique Feature, but my gut says it's probably fine. Another player wants to be able to do kinda what the Faceless Men from Game of Thrones can do: change his face to appear like a new person. Seeing as that's pretty powerful I said it would be ok as long as it's more subtle and people who know him will recognize him, and people who scrutinize him can get a sense that something is odd about his features or something. I don't want a player running around casting Disguise Self at will basically. Thoughts on this one, how to parley it into something interesting but not too strong? Am I over-thinking this stuff, or are these Unique Features not in keeping with the spirit of the game? sighnoceros fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 16:14
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GOONS ARE MEAN
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I think they're good starting points. Now ask them "why?" Why can he talk to animals? Why can he change his face? What has happened, in their lineage, studies, or general history that has given them these unique powers? I think this is more optional depending on your campaign feel, but you could also have them tie it in to one icon and at least one setting idea/location. The why will become the One Unique Thing. The powers you've listed can easily become backgrounds that will be based on the One Unique Thing, then you already have a way to get them to expand the concept as they work to fill out other backgrounds. Also, if you tie animal empathy and face shifting into backgrounds there's no need to limit the power of it. The math will do that for you and the narrative will adjust accordingly. fosborb fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 16:30
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An added benefit to making them backgrounds is it might encourage versatility. If your one unique thing is "Can chat with animals" then you can chat with animals and that's cool. But if you have a background "Chat with animals all the time +4" then not only can you chat with animals and get the skinny on the forest or the sewers or whatever, you can probably recall that really cool trick that wolf taught you a couple years back to follow the assassin that just tried to kill the mayor. Having "I can change the features of my face" as a background lets you pretend to be another person, sure, but it can also come in handy scaring the living daylights out of the bandit you're interrogating when all of the sudden your eyes are made of mouths.
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Jul 19, 2012 16:41
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I want my character to be able to change his face. Okay, I was a baby and a hellhole sprung up around our little farm. Sucked me and my family in. My parents and siblings were quickly devoured by demons, but the demons brought me to the Diabolist. I know this, because as soon as I was within her presence, my soul instantly grew old, twisted, and withered, and from that day on I had the mind of an adult. With a ruined soul, no identity, and in the midst of such evil magic, my very countenance became truly mutable. She laughed when she saw the change within me, and moved on to whatever her inscrutable purpose was. She left me wrecked, but powerful, until the Crusader tore down the hellhole and freed me. Diabolist 2 Complicated Crusader 1 Positive +4 Changing face +4 Demon touched +2 Lucky as all hell +2 Survivor
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Jul 19, 2012 16:45
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fosborb posted:I think they're good starting points. I agree. "Can talk to animals" and "Changing face" as Backgrounds don't take full advantage of the rule's power. If you told me one of your backgrounds was, "Initiate of the Dark Forest clan of spies and assassins for the High Druid," and that gave you the ability to talk to animals and change your face, I would say gently caress yeah. "Last surviving member of the Dark Forest clan" might be a good Unique Feature, because nobody in the world would have the particular set of abilities that you have.
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Jul 19, 2012 18:02
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waderockett posted:I agree. "Can talk to animals" and "Changing face" as Backgrounds don't take full advantage of the rule's power. If you told me one of your backgrounds was, "Initiate of the Dark Forest clan of spies and assassins for the High Druid," and that gave you the ability to talk to animals and change your face, I would say gently caress yeah. On a related note (because in playtesting they used a relationship to do it), my 13A TURBODRACULA had a "come to me my children of the night" thing which I intended as sort of a Animal empathy/mesmerism dealie, have you had any playtest concerns about where the line is for the mechanical power of a one unique thing? Like has anyone reported a "I can fly like an eagle" as a thing?
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Jul 19, 2012 18:25
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One approach that worked for me was to say 'This is something unique to you. Not unique in the group, unique to the world. This is something true about you that isn't true about anyone else anywhere.' Also remember that you can let your OUT slide until something suggests itself in play. I have one player who's doing that in my game. Both the animal-chat and face-change OUTs sound pretty cool. I might make the face-changer drop a racial power, but it's kind of borderline; I use the 'aura of good' OUT as my benchmark for how awesome you're allowed to make your OUT. I don't think either of your examples is out of the ballpark, though.
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Jul 19, 2012 21:01
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Eh, I'm of the mindset these days that if a player wants to go gung ho on something radically powerful like face changing, you just up the ante and make it a fun thing. Oh you can change your face to mask your identity? Turns out one of the villains is a sherlock holmes esque genius that calls you out in the worst of situations for your mannerisms, voice, ticks and air of confidence when you least expect it. Oh and that jungle you're traveling to? If they see you change faces they'll think you an avatar of the dark shifting god Panthakah, and you know what they say about the blood of his avatars... Give your players the moon, and let them realize "Holy poo poo this moon is full of craters and rock beasts and I can't breathe and I'm far away from my loved ones god damnit this is a whole new set of troublesome adventures!"
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Jul 19, 2012 21:10
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I made an entire RPG based on my frustration that the One Unique Feature wasn't automatically a power.
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Jul 19, 2012 21:25
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Similarly, animals probably aren't much more helpful than other NPCs and most conversations are going to start with "Oh poo poo a talking human!"
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Jul 19, 2012 21:28
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Agree with giving the players the moon. And tying things to mechanics like backgrounds and relationships will help you enforce this. Face changing sounds like a really powerful diplomacy power, but if it's a background it still will have about a 25% fail rate, so you'll need to figure out why. Perhaps it's a character flaw, or maybe the world is just really loving suspicious. Regardless, the opportunity to discover challenges directly related to player strengths will naturally be present, so there's no need to hold back what they want. fosborb fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 21:30
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The problem that comes to mind with face changing is just because you can look like someone doesn't mean you sound like them. Or act like them. A handy disguise is never infallible.
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Jul 19, 2012 21:35
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moths posted:Similarly, animals probably aren't much more helpful than other NPCs and most conversations are going to start with "Oh poo poo a talking human!" There was an old bit on Dr. Katz where Aquaman was being discussed and all fish could say was HI AQUAMAN HI. Fenarisk posted:Eh, I'm of the mindset these days that if a player wants to go gung ho on something radically powerful like face changing, you just up the ante and make it a fun thing. I would be inclined, were I to ever run 13th Age, to use the unique thing as one of the big "reality" setting dials. Probably the biggest one, since defining what is acceptable re: that bit sort of sets the tone of the game. If it is the sort of game where being a Star Trek character who has gone native and is trying to get back home is OK it is gonna be a different joint than if your unique thing is you wrote a one hit wonder back in the 80's and have been living off that since.
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Jul 19, 2012 23:02
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Various updates: The new PDF is out! http://www.pelgranepress.com/?cat=248 When the Sea Princess went up I sent it to Rob Heinsoo. He replied, "I absolutely love this. Very well done." "13 Facts About 13th Age" is up at See Page XX: http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=8583 -- This is my attempt to give someone who hasn't seen the game a decent idea of what the heck it is, without writing pages and pages of description. Ultimately I'd like to have it added to the "Background" subhead in the sidebar, so people can easily find it. Geek in Review podcast's interview with Jonathan Tweet is a must-listen if you're interested in the game: http://girpodcast.podomatic.com/ If you have feedback on the current draft, the best way to get it seen by the designers and devs is to send it directly to 13thAgePlaytest@gmail.com. Rob is laser-focused on feedback right now, while I am largely focused on prep for Gen Con. I'd hate for your thoughtful input to get buried in my mailbox. (Speaking of which, if the manufacturer can deliver a proof to us in time, we will have something ridiculously cool to show off at the Pelgrane booth.) Red_Mage posted:On a related note (because in playtesting they used a relationship to do it), my 13A TURBODRACULA had a "come to me my children of the night" thing which I intended as sort of a Animal empathy/mesmerism dealie, have you had any playtest concerns about where the line is for the mechanical power of a one unique thing? Like has anyone reported a "I can fly like an eagle" as a thing? Good question. I've asked Rob.
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Jul 20, 2012 13:33
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Of course the Great Gold Wyrm isn't plugging the hole in the abyss with his butt. He totally went in head first.
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Jul 20, 2012 14:05
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waderockett posted:Various updates: Wade, the zip file still has the badge for version 1. e: I've been very bad about not playing 13A. I'm thinking about seeing if I can run the next season of Encounters with it at my local game store.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:01
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The last few times I've put it on the slate of games to try it's been 13th Age, Last Stand and Dungeon World. The latter two have now been played (in very fun one-shots!) and I'm looking forward to trying out 13th Age, but I think its greater complexity, larger amount of GM prep and similarity to D&D kinda puts my groups off. What would people recommend for a one shot? Build a bunch of pregens with interesting relationships and One Unique Things, or have players build characters at the session?
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Jul 20, 2012 15:06
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Evil Mastermind posted:Wade, the zip file still has the badge for version 1.  Swagger Dagger posted:Of course the Great Gold Wyrm isn't plugging the hole in the abyss with his butt. He totally went in head first. The GGW going in head first also exposes him to the whispers and temptations ever present in the Abyss. Compounded with the painful constant fighting, it is a testament to the will and mental constitution that the GGW hasn't gone mad from all this. Of course, if he did, pulled his head out of the abyss and turned his powers against the world while letting loose the forces of the Abyss - that would be an epic True DangerTM.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:11
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Aww I liked silver coins as quarters. Though I guess the math is easier by tens.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:21
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I love the idea of people in setting referring to overzealous paladins as "having their heads up the Abyss" in an oblique reference to the GGW.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:32
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waderockett posted:Various updates: Curse you for this not being free~! Will there be a demo version? A smaller book might help my group get convinced this is a good idea. It could use Mikan's pregens for added hilarity! Swagger Dagger posted:Of course the Great Gold Wyrm isn't plugging the hole in the abyss with his butt. He totally went in head first. Now and forever this is my image of Great Gold Wyrm.
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Jul 20, 2012 16:08
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Flavivirus posted:The last few times I've put it on the slate of games to try it's been 13th Age, Last Stand and Dungeon World. The latter two have now been played (in very fun one-shots!) and I'm looking forward to trying out 13th Age, but I think its greater complexity, larger amount of GM prep and similarity to D&D kinda puts my groups off. Personally I think it would be a shame to not let the players create their own characters, since so much of 13th Age's strengths revolve around the relationship between the characters and the world they inhabit. I'd probably set aside one session to let everyone make characters, then prepare the adventure for the next session so you can properly customize the adventure. Then again, depending on your group and schedule, this may not be the most ideal for a one-shot.
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Jul 20, 2012 16:13
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Swagger Dagger posted:Of course the Great Gold Wyrm isn't plugging the hole in the abyss with his butt. He totally went in head first. My playtesters called him the Golden Arches Dragon.
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Jul 20, 2012 18:19
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Winson_Paine posted:Will there be a demo version? A smaller book might help my group get convinced this is a good idea. It could use Mikan's pregens for added hilarity! If anyone in your group is going to Gen Con or PAX Prime, there will be opportunities for them to play the game, and to ask Rob and Jonathan why it's awesome. We're not planning on doing a demo version. Evil Mastermind posted:Wade, the zip file still has the badge for version 1. Thanks -- I told Simon, and he said he's on it. Red_Mage posted:have you had any playtest concerns about where the line is for the mechanical power of a one unique thing? Like has anyone reported a "I can fly like an eagle" as a thing? Rob's answer: "I want to tackle this with a nuanced discussion in the next iteration of the rules rather than a quick response. It's worth talking about, but I'd rather respond fully after writing advice and running it past Jonathan."
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Jul 20, 2012 19:16
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I'm not sure why, but the Priestess really comes off as...boring. The Dwarf King, Elf Queen and Emperor don't have much more text than she does, but they seem more interesting than her. The Priestess just comes off as kind of bland. I think it's that there's no detail on her religion, which is...core to what she is. Like, with the Crusader he's got his armies and hellhole-punching and it's pretty clear what he's about even if we have no idea what the dark gods are like, but the Priestess doesn't have that. (Of course, everyone pales in comparison to the Three, but that's because the Three rock.)
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Jul 20, 2012 19:21
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Mors Rattus posted:I'm not sure why, but the Priestess really comes off as...boring. The Dwarf King, Elf Queen and Emperor don't have much more text than she does, but they seem more interesting than her. The Priestess just comes off as kind of bland. I think it's that there's no detail on her religion, which is...core to what she is. Like, with the Crusader he's got his armies and hellhole-punching and it's pretty clear what he's about even if we have no idea what the dark gods are like, but the Priestess doesn't have that. The only way the Priestess is interesting is if she's lying, and there are no Gods of Light talking to her. Also, the Elf Queen and Dwarf King inherit some characterization from the races they represent - the Elf Queen's writeup is short, but she gets a lot more detail in the section on the Elves and their court politics. The Dwarf Kings is generally shorter, but people have tons of well-characterized Dwarfs to project onto him, like from Pratchett, so it's not as big of a deal. The Emperor's personal writeup is short, but he's got, you know, the entire Empire to serve as a backdrop. The Priestess is just... empty. "Gods of Light" are usually some of the least interesting parts of a setting to begin with, and the fact that they're not characterized at all plus her short writeup means there's nothing to work off of. She desperately needs something to give her some depth, and she just doesn't have it.
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Jul 20, 2012 19:41
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Well didn't they hint that she's kind of new to the Icon pantheon too? I'm not sure how to best make someone who is authentically supposed to be holy, righteous, and goodly very interesting. Maybe she's just TOO perfect? She doesn't have any ambitions or goals even, her enemies section is how she takes in people cast off by the other icons. She kind of reminds me of how Galadriel was in LotR, like even Gimli was taken by her grace and divinity. But obviously Galadriel was also tempted by the ring. It doesn't sound like the Priestess, according to the lore, really has any faults. But since she's new, maybe her faults are just unknown and it's up to the GM if they want to make her sinister or "human" in some way. sighnoceros fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 19:56
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The Priestess should have more prominent elements of being either a Fool, Cynic, or a Deceiver - i.e. an Icon from a previous age wrapped in a new package designed to do maximum damage. That's an interesting character. A Goddess of Light who really is in it for everybody's benefit, and only has meaningful conflict with her goals from fellow Icons...that's one-dimensional and blah as hell if you ask me (no one did, though).
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Jul 20, 2012 20:29
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I think the problem with the priestess is that she's the representative of the good gods, which are purposefully left undescribed to allow the players and GM to create the worlds major religion. Which is cool, but it means there isn't really any default assumptions for her. I still think there are some interesting places to take the character. I focused in on the seer aspect of her. She really does talk to the good gods, and from them learns the fate of the world or, at least, it's current direction. Unfortunately, that vision is increasingly horrific, yet she has no real power to change it. She may be capable of great miracles within her temple, but she's incapable of curing a plague in Axis, or fighting back a freshly opened hellhole. But each bit of pain and suffering is broadcast directly to her by the god's with little to no advice or how to stop them. She does what she can, and keeps up a brave face for the devout masses, but only an increasingly desperate faith keeps her from giving into despair, or even madness. The true danger is what will happen when her faith finally fails and the brightest flame of hope is snuffed out.
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Jul 20, 2012 20:36
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My favorite Priestess thing is when she disavows her sermon on halfling origins. Edit: have her do more inexplicable and controversial stuff all the time. She is the ambassador of the unknowable, not King James. moths fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 20:50
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A lot of the priestess's stuff is in the Cathedral section, the same way the Elf Queen's stuff is in the elf writeup. I like that the Priestess is building a giant, weird, all-encompassing, possibly transdimensional Cathedral, like a giant tower of Babel. I view her almost as a transhuman figure; maybe the point of the Cathedral is to cause it to grow so large it takes root in the sky and becomes the antithesis of a living dungeon, spreading downward from above instead of upwards from below, and randomly spawning godly weirdness instead of demonic horror.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:11
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Spiderfist Island posted:Maybe it could be a Adventurer–Tier talent like the one that lets paladins take a Cleric spell? I was thinking of it having it's own progression, maybe outside of the talents. I think they would get less of these than other classes as they are intended to be the 'simple' class. It doesn't make sense for a barbarian to heal allies. It does make sense for a barbarian to scream into the face of his enemies and have them cower in fear as spit smacks them in the face and the heat of his breath causes their noises to shut themselves.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:14
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:A lot of the priestess's stuff is in the Cathedral section, the same way the Elf Queen's stuff is in the elf writeup. That's a good spin. I also was thinking maybe she secretly wishes to become a god or godlike herself, and by allowing all these religions under one roof, she is slowly working to steal their power.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:15
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I think I would make the Priestess the representative of all the gods, not just the "good" gods. She's in charge of the rituals that please the good gods and propitiate the evil gods. She's still basically good, but sometimes she has to do things that seem questionable so that the God of Murder doesn't come down there and start killing everyone. She's the ultimate authority on what does or does not keep the gods from wrecking poo poo. She may not be able to perform miracles outside her tower, but she exerts influence in the world in the form of rituals and religious decrees. Also, she never, ever explains herself. Her instructions can be sent to anyone: cities, nobles, even peasants. When a farmer gets a letter saying "Dig up your apple tree and replant it in your neighbor's yard XOXO -The Priestess" he doesn't ask why, he just does it.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:16
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:A lot of the priestess's stuff is in the Cathedral section, the same way the Elf Queen's stuff is in the elf writeup. RSIxidor posted:It doesn't make sense for a barbarian to heal allies.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:24
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Looking at the new version, they fixed one my problems with Javelin of Faith (it said mooks count as full HP, so JoF could be as high as 8d10+510 all combat) and lowered the damage so it's not as overpowering against weapon users. Hooray! The Ranger gets to use Heal once a battle through its feat while the Paladin is stuck using it only twice a day. I think there should be parity there OR I think the Paladin should get to use it more than the Ranger. And I don't see why you had to clarify that about the GGW. If I want his big shiny arse in the abyss hole in my campaign, then you can't stop me. Neener neener.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:25
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frankenfreak posted:A paragraph of "see also" references to that additional information "hidden" throughout the book would probably be helpful. Eh, you're right. But I still think it should feel different than the Bard feature.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:26
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