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That sounds more like an Archmage request to me. Speaking of which, I love how it comes right out and says that the Archmage often sends adventurers on quests that don't seem to make any sense on the surface, basically because only he can see the strings that connect everything. I just imagine him giving someone 3 rocks, telling them to go out in the middle of the desert to a specific location, stack the rocks in such and such order, then WALK AWAY AND DON'T LOOK BACK. Quest complete.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:27
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sighnoceros posted:That sounds more like an Archmage request to me. Speaking of which, I love how it comes right out and says that the Archmage often sends adventurers on quests that don't seem to make any sense on the surface, basically because only he can see the strings that connect everything. I can imagine the Archmage also given unusual grocery lists that require the heroes to visit far away locales to purchase or procure them.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:35
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RSIxidor posted:Eh, you're right. But I still think it should feel different than the Bard feature. It Does. Bard=Sings a song, tells a heroic tale, gets his friends inspired back into the fight Barbarian="YOU COWARDS, GET BACK ON YOUR FEET, YOU CALL THAT A HIT?" style shouting to rouse the anger in allies to get them back into the fight.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:36
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The Barbarian as some kind of frontlines, raging Warlord/Barbarian hybrid is the best Barbarian.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:47
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Good news: They fixed the monk, which wasn't doing enough damage! Bad news: I haven't done the math yet, but it sure seems like they nerfed the poo poo out of the monk.
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Jul 20, 2012 23:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The Priestess should have more prominent elements of being either a Fool, Cynic, or a Deceiver - i.e. an Icon from a previous age wrapped in a new package designed to do maximum damage. That's an interesting character. A Goddess of Light who really is in it for everybody's benefit, and only has meaningful conflict with her goals from fellow Icons...that's one-dimensional and blah as hell if you ask me (no one did, though). She represents all the good gods, who disagree, squabble, and on occasion doubtlessly fight over their version of the truth. It's also worth stating that the Prince of Shadows once stole halflings from a good gods dream (maybe) so it's entirely possible that he gets up in her head and plays around with the Priestess, too (he wouldn't do that, really). Just remember that she isn't organized and doesn't have a one true way and some of the gods don't like followers of the other gods and she's basically the youngest daughter in a family of 600 trying to explain to daddy what it is everyone else is fighting over.
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Jul 21, 2012 00:55
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waderockett posted:When the Sea Princess went up I sent it to Rob Heinsoo. He replied, "I absolutely love this. Very well done."  All of my nerd friends are going to be jealous that my fan icon is 13th Age Designer-approved. 
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Jul 21, 2012 01:58
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Mystic Mongol posted:Good news: They fixed the monk, which wasn't doing enough damage! I really hope it's not to the point of it becoming D&D 3.5 monk redux. I like the idea of flowing water allowing you to extend your flow combo, but dislike the method of which it does it. Then again I haven't been able to play any 13th Age sessions, either on the first escalation, or the second one so I can't say from experience. Burning Justice fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 02:07
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waderockett posted:If anyone in your group is going to Gen Con or PAX Prime, there will be opportunities for them to play the game, and to ask Rob and Jonathan why it's awesome. We're not planning on doing a demo version. Man if I met Tweet I would be too busy asking him to sign my copy of Over the Edge and my Talislanta blue book.
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Jul 21, 2012 02:32
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Holy poo poo Monk is terrible now. Ignoring the fact that for some reason Flurry got nerfed so it does less damage and can be used less often, and Opening Fist got killed completely (I know it was really good, but it also defined the style of play, flying about the battlefield constantly engaging new targets and doing high damage at the cost of suffering many AoEs) but in return we got Temple Weapon Master, which... lets you play your monk like a terrible tank. But worst of all, the distinction between inner and outer forms is gone, and with it the ability to increase the damage of your inner and outer forms is gone too. So the monk's been knocked down from d10 weapon damage to d6 weapon damage, and in exchange... everything else is worse too. To make up for the fact that all of the monk's class features are weaker, all of the monk's forms are weaker too. All the added effects are inferior to their previous forms. The monk now has the dubious distinction of being the only class that does no damage on a miss, at least on some attacks. I remember the reason monk was deemed 'unplayable' was because it didn't scale properly and did inferior damage at higher levels. So why does the new, fixed version of monk do less damage? I'm gonna run the numbers now to see if the math supports my initial impressions of the new class, but honestly I don't see how it could not. I'm about to get into combat in the PbP and this is not a good thing to have happen to me.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:40
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Mystic Mongol posted:Holy poo poo Monk is terrible now. Ignoring the fact that for some reason Flurry got nerfed so it does less damage and can be used less often, and Opening Fist got killed completely (I know it was really good, but it also defined the style of play, flying about the battlefield constantly engaging new targets and doing high damage at the cost of suffering many AoEs) but in return we got Temple Weapon Master, which... lets you play your monk like a terrible tank. But worst of all, the distinction between inner and outer forms is gone, and with it the ability to increase the damage of your inner and outer forms is gone too. So the monk's been knocked down from d10 weapon damage to d6 weapon damage, and in exchange... everything else is worse too. I've run a few numbers and I've gotta agree with you. They needed to make the monk scale better, not weaken to this.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:43
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This news saddens me greatly, it seems that the monk class tends to suffer the most from knee jerk nerfing.
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Jul 21, 2012 06:46
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I kept getting more and more interested in this game, ended up pre-ordering. Hopefully it turns out as interesting as it looks!
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Jul 22, 2012 03:24
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13th Age GMs Needed at Gen Con And PAX Pelgrane Press and Fire Opal Media are looking for GMs to run 13th Age at Gen Con and PAX Prime. If you're willing and able to run a game at either con, please email me at wade@fireopalmedia.com and let me know. If you know someone who's not on this forum and would be a good GM at either con, I'd appreciate it if you'd pass this along.
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Jul 22, 2012 05:29
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Mystic Mongol posted:Holy poo poo Monk is terrible now. Welp. Those changes don't even make sense; you don't fix not being able to do enough damage and improper scaling by removing damage dealing capability like you don't fix a sore wrist by cutting off your hand. It's not like they don't have the monster math in the back of the book so they/the playtesters can't run damage numbers easily.
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Jul 22, 2012 05:58
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Any changes to barbarian? My DM is being lame and not coming online so I have no way of knowing yet.
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Jul 22, 2012 06:20
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It feels like they started over from scratch and made all the same mistakes again. Flurry having a flat 50% chance of dealing damage and being decoupled from hitting or not is interesting, but it clashes with the power's original ideal of being, 'swingy'. You don't get things swingy by giving them a separate to-hit roll--in fact, that gives the Monk an evener, more reliable damage stream than having them do a lot of damage on a hit and almost none on a miss. A pity the flurry does less damage now than it used to. I've crunched the numbers, and its official... though level 5 the esca.1 monk did more damage than a fighter if he switched targets every turn, and less if he stuck to one target through the fight. The esca.2 monk deals a little less damage than the fighter does no matter WHAT, does significantly less damage if he's not taking, and is crap at tanking compared to a fighter. In return the monk can disengage easily compared to a fighter, but since a significant portion of the monk's damage stream comes from sitting in melee with a target taking hits if you use the monk's abilities to stay out of danger you do significantly less damage. waderockett! Please revert the monk changes, tia. Or tell us what the Monk is good at, because it sure ain't winning fights or having interesting out of fight abilities.
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Jul 22, 2012 06:21
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I hope that the published version includes a more effective Monk, and a more interesting Barbarian.
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Jul 22, 2012 11:40
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Mystic Mongol posted:waderockett! Please revert the monk changes, tia. Or tell us what the Monk is good at, because it sure ain't winning fights or having interesting out of fight abilities. Ach. I'm very sorry the revised class isn't working, especially because for all that was broken with it, the monk was the class a lot of you were really excited about in the first playtest. quote:Those who saw Escalation Edition v 1.0 will find that the monk has been revised and made somewhat playable up to level 5. I say ‘somewhat’ because it’s in need of formatting, rationalization, and testing. ...Send concise playtest feedback to 13thAgePlaytest@gmail.com and we’ll add it to the 800+ pages of playtest feedback we’re processing now with our developer. The things we would love playtest feedback on from this edition are the monk Would you please email Rob and the developer using that address and let them know that you've tested the monk and found it not even somewhat playable, and why? That'll be easier and more effective than going through me. It also gives them an opportunity to mail you back.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:28
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You want me to be productive? Fine, jerk, but I don't have to like it.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:45
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waderockett posted:Would you please email Rob and the developer using that address and let them know that you've tested the monk and found it not even somewhat playable, and why? That'll be easier and more effective than going through me. It also gives them an opportunity to mail you back. That's really cool of you. I'm running a game with some friends, one of them is really excited about trying the Monk. I'll see if I can provide some useful feedback.
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Jul 22, 2012 21:11
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So, the half elf racial has changed? I can't remember what the older one was, but this one seems... conditional. Like, what if I choose a class outside the ones listed in the write-up? I have the power to subtract one from a natural roll but what if that doesn't help me in my class, I've just wasted a racial? Maybe I'm overlooking something but it doesn't seem that great and also seems worse than the other racials.
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Jul 22, 2012 21:52
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Overemotional Robot posted:So, the half elf racial has changed? I can't remember what the older one was, but this one seems... conditional. Like, what if I choose a class outside the ones listed in the write-up? I have the power to subtract one from a natural roll but what if that doesn't help me in my class, I've just wasted a racial? The older one was "pick human or elf racial at the start of every fight," which my half-elf rouge player enjoyed. The new one's gonna be... less useful.
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Jul 23, 2012 00:42
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aegof posted:The older one was "pick human or elf racial at the start of every fight," which my half-elf rouge player enjoyed. The new one's gonna be... less useful.
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Jul 23, 2012 07:41
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isildur posted:I've already had to promise not to force the new one on either of my group's half-elves. The half-elf wizard in particular has absolutely no use for it. Yeah. I actually kind of like the new mechanic as a mechanic, but most classes won't get a lot of use out of it.
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Jul 23, 2012 07:56
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I've been thinking about rituals. My group's fighter is a little cranky that the party wizard gets to have the cool elaborate narrative powers out of combat. (He also reads this thread, so hopefully he doesn't object to being characterized as 'cranky'.) This got me thinking: could you come up with some kind of 'rituals' for fighters? My first reaction was 'sure, you could use Defensive Fighting as a ritual to fortify a town, Seven Samurai style.' But this has two problems: one, most of the fighter powers don't turn into large-scale narrative effects as easily as that -- I can't think of anything ritual-like to do with, say, Heavy Blows. Two, as the fighter pointed out, he could get the same results with his backgrounds, where the wizard can do things she couldn't possibly do with her backgrounds by using rituals. This all came up because the most recent session had our first really serious use of ritual magic to mess with the narrative. And I really want to come up with a way to give that same kind of authorial control to non-magical characters.
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Jul 23, 2012 09:20
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Heavy Blows: Carve out a river, flatten a cliff, play a tower like a drum to send signals across the entire kingdom. A single blow can, in fact, reduce a mountain to gravel, but in order to find out WHERE that blow goes you have to do a lot of tedious math and set up a lot of surveying equipment. Anyway. The wizard is having an easier time justifying his rituals because he's got the background, "Master of the Arcane," which is a very versatile background. Honestly, I suspect your fighter's backgrounds are on the restrictive side. What are they? I suspect we could jazz them up a little. Monk feedback is coming, I'm having trouble making it concise because I've got problems with literally every change except, "Leaf on the Wind," the new version of which is great. E: Argh, why is Walking the Spiral so bad? It's three attacks are literally based off of three different stats! E2: Why is every finishing move based off of strength? I guess monks are strength primary now. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 09:50
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Played in a game of 13th Age last night, we had converted our characters from an older never-finished 4e campaign a few weeks ago. Really hitting our stride with the new system, DM is writing up his own monsters and inventing new mechanics for us to tinker with. Key this game was new magic items (my cleric's weapon could turn into a number of huge weapons, including one the DM made up called a "siegehammer") and a Stunt system (tag a minor action onto a standard action to accomplish something extra with your turn). Using the stunt system the Dragonspawn used his cold breath to cause a Yochol to revert from gaseous form back to solid, Sorceror disrupted a ritual. We rescued a Drow NPC/Former-PC from a group of eeeeeevil Drow who wanted to "Re-educate" him, they had him trapped in a big ball of light as a prison. Cleric of Tempus figures a ball is a ball no matter what, uses the siegehammer to invent megagolf and breeze through a few enemy drow before they decide to deactivate the prisonball. Good game overall. I am enjoying this pre-release.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:56
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-Fish- posted:and a Stunt system (tag a minor action onto a standard action to accomplish something extra with your turn). Could you go into a little more detail about this stunt system? It sounds really interesting but I think I may not be understanding it correctly. I am totally thinking about stealing it, btw.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:26
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I'm kind of imagining it being an extension of the Best Houserule. Which is 'everyone, every character, gets free access to Vance's Polysyllabic Verbalization as an ability, you always get awesome tricks for going out of your way to describe how you do a thing.'
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Jul 23, 2012 23:29
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That's funny because that's exactly how I am implementing stunts in my 13th Age game. Basically if you are going to make an attack and you want to do something interesting that isn't really provided for in the rules (due to no fiddly grapple/slide/push maneuvers) then you can use a quick action, describe what you're doing, and if you hit with your attack then you do it. Depending on the situation you might have to make a skill check. But you could tie an effect to a spell or ranged attack or whatever. This would allow you to push someone off a nearby ledge, into a fire, maybe disarm someone, etc. You could also use it for non-aggressive stunts on a move without having to make an attack roll. I'm not sure how Fish is handling his but that's how I'm handling them in my game.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:00
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So, do you mean use a quick action along with their standard? Then, if they hit they get the attack and do the Thing they were trying to do? Sorry, it sounds awesome and I want to use and am trying to wrap my head around it. Don't know why I'm having such a hard time with it.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:12
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Yeah. And if you wanted you could even say if they miss with their attack but make their skill check they could still get the rider effect without damage as long as it makes sense in the situation. I'm just tying the quick to another action so that there isn't a precedent of "I can push a guy off a ledge with a quick action so why does it take a standard to stab him?" so you can't just do them independently. It's meant (in my system) to be a bonus not the main effect. But I just sort of cobbled it together, it's not a concrete system and may change with play. Basically if the player wants to do something awesome, then let them. If it's something awesome that would be more interesting/suspenseful if they might fail instead of auto-succeeding with a hit, make them roll a check. Don't make it too hard, you want to encourage players to try cool things.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:28
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Ah, ok, I get it now. Yeah, I like that a lot.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:39
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Man I have this awesome character idea in my head now and no game to play it in  Anybody setting up an escalation edition game that hasn't started yet?
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Jul 24, 2012 01:13
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Tollymain posted:Anybody setting up an escalation edition game that hasn't started yet?
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Jul 24, 2012 02:05
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For some reason I developed a strange urge to make a character whose One Unique Thing is that they never sweat. I think I am doing it wrong.
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Jul 24, 2012 04:49
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He doesn't sweat because he's accustomed to heat due to the blood in his veins being as hot as fire. Now there's a Unique Feature. vvv That's even better. I am stealing that. sighnoceros fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 05:06
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Alternatively: she doesn't sweat because she was born without fear. She has never known terror of the heat, of the enemy, of anything. She is literally fearless - and as a result, doomed to get into some big trouble.
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Jul 24, 2012 05:09
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Or she doesn't sweat because she has found perfect balance between herself and the world; she is eternally calm because she has accepted that all happens as it will and she is merely an instrument of existence.
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Jul 24, 2012 05:47
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