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IHatePugs posted:What is EU? Expanded/Extended Universe. Everything FFVII that isn't this game. simplefish fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 09:56
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Shwqa posted:A phoenix down only works if you are mostly dead. Aeris was all dead. What does having death cast on someone do then? 
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Oct 11, 2012 12:15
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Brainamp posted:Wow, this is a really terrible derail. His plan is as follows Science!-->Vacation that's about it.
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Oct 11, 2012 12:28
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ATM Machine posted:What does having death cast on someone do then? That's like asking why casting Meltdown doesn't cause Chernobyl.
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Oct 11, 2012 13:44
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Dear lord please stop trying to justify the gameplay mechanics in the story. It's like seriously asking why the main character can survive multiple gunshot wounds in any FPS, and you should know by now that JRPG gameplay especially has always been an abstraction. Even in the games where things like healing spells do come up in the plot.
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Oct 11, 2012 15:30
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XyloJW posted:And to answer that, phoenix downs aren't cheap. 300 gil might seem like chump change to you, but to some people, they might never afford that. Cloud is the 1%.
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Oct 11, 2012 16:00
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:That's like asking why casting Meltdown doesn't cause Chernobyl. Who says it doesn't? Has your team ever stuck around and done soil sample surveys? Maybe you're leaving irradiated landscapes in your wake everywhere you go.Golbez posted:Cloud is the 1%. Did you see his tax returns in that photo from Nibelheim? I didn't. BioMe posted:Dear lord please stop trying to justify the gameplay mechanics in the story. It's like seriously asking why the main character can survive multiple gunshot wounds in any FPS, and you should know by now that JRPG gameplay especially has always been an abstraction. Even in the games where things like healing spells do come up in the plot. Yeah, why are people jokingly talking about the game's mechanics! They ought to be discussing
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Oct 11, 2012 16:10
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BioMe posted:Dear lord please stop trying to justify the gameplay mechanics in the story. It's like seriously asking why the main character can survive multiple gunshot wounds in any FPS, and you should know by now that JRPG gameplay especially has always been an abstraction. Even in the games where things like healing spells do come up in the plot. Sounds like someone tried to cast Silence in the middle of conversation. 
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Oct 11, 2012 16:10
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I liked it better when those people took up their cottages and stayed in their Shin-ra assigned mid-dungeon save point, away from everyone's Libra.
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Oct 11, 2012 17:39
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Brainamp posted:Sounds like someone tried to cast Silence in the middle of conversation. This is Final Fantasy. The only status that works with any reliability is Slow.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:15
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XyloJW posted:Who says it doesn't? In retrospect, I probably should have stop using meltdown after it first shows signs of radiation but drat it I had a world to save! Shwqa fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 18:17
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:This is Final Fantasy. The only status that works with any reliability is Slow. I don't know. It's better to cast Haste on your party than try to debuff the enemy with Slow, and Poison is always useful when it works.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:25
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GrizzlyCow posted:I don't know. It's better to cast Haste on your party than try to debuff the enemy with Slow, and Poison is always useful when it works. Do both. 
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Oct 11, 2012 18:35
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GrizzlyCow posted:I don't know. It's better to cast Haste on your party than try to debuff the enemy with Slow, and Poison is always useful when it works. Slowing the lone boss is similar to Hasting your whole party and available much sooner for much less MP, and usually works far before Hastega is even a consideration. Doing both really widens the gap between each side. And "when it works" is exactly why I said only Slow. Sure there are places it does, but they are few and far between and you just have to sort of know it works - that the little white "miss" means 'try again!' instead of 'it'll never work give up' - and that it isn't a better use of the turn to just punch the enemy in the face. The intersections between "works" and "worth it" is very, very tiny and unintuitive in Final Fantasy games.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:40
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Depends on which game it is. Poison is much too good in Final Fantasy X, where it was 25% per action. Haste has pretty much always been useful from what I remember. Edit: Didn't later games have IMMUNE pop up instead of miss when trying to cast on an immune target?
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Oct 11, 2012 18:41
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Yukari posted:Edit: Didn't later games have IMMUNE pop up instead of miss when trying to cast on an immune target? I think that was just FFX, which only had Poison and Slow not attached to a physical attack anyway and had the Scan tips to tell you things worked.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:45
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Yukari posted:Depends on which game it is. Poison is much too good in Final Fantasy X, where it was 25% per action. Haste has pretty much always been useful from what I remember.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:50
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Tupperwarez posted:Disease from FF12 could be pretty brutal. Oh, locks your maximum HP to your current HP? And it works on certain bosses, messing up their special move triggers? That poo poo actually worked on some bosses?   That said, FF12 is laughably broken as soon as you can reverse item effects and just start hemorrhaging Remedies and Phoenix Downs and X-Potions as bringers of death.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:55
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a sawing motion posted:She wasn't in the party at the time so we technically couldn't use a Phoenix Down on her Of course resting at an inn sets everyone to full health, so clearly they should've dragged her corpse along with them to Icicle Inn.
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Oct 11, 2012 19:40
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whitehelm posted:Of course resting at an inn sets everyone to full health, so clearly they should've dragged her corpse along with them to Icicle Inn. How can she rejoin the party once she's dead 
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Oct 11, 2012 19:53
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whitehelm posted:Of course resting at an inn sets everyone to full health, so clearly they should've dragged her corpse along with them to Icicle Inn. They clearly needed a cleric to raise her back, but given that Aeris seems to have been the only one in the world they are poo poo outta luck.
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Oct 11, 2012 20:12
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She would have revived if they tossed her on those spikes in the Cosmo Canyon dungeon.
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Oct 11, 2012 20:55
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:This is Final Fantasy. The only status that works with any reliability is Slow. That's the only way I managed to kill any of the bosses in FF4 DS. By the way, gently caress FF4 DS.
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Oct 11, 2012 21:08
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Pollyanna posted:That's the only way I managed to kill any of the bosses in FF4 DS.
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Oct 11, 2012 21:16
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The White Dragon posted:I will never understand folks when they say stuff like, "Buffs and debuffs should be mandatory for victory" because like you say, you run into this very problem. When casting Slow and Haste and dropping Shells and Protects is required to win pretty much every battle, their argument for it is nullified: they say that requiring these things makes you think and you don't just mash confirm, but the truth is, when everything requires it, you're still just mashing confirm and you don't need to think any more than you normally do anyway, it's just that victory requires more of the same button presses. It would be excusable if there were alternatives to buffing/debuffing the poo poo out of everyone (such as making something useful out of Hide or a party-wide Jump or heavy Black Magic use or something), but unlike FFV where you have a wide variety of potential parties and therefore a whole shitload of freedom with abilities, magic, buffing/debuffing, and tricky stuff like chemistry, FFIV falls into a rut of the same thing over and over again thanks to pre-defined parties and everyone having a strict role in battle with no guarantee of actually being effective. It's just Slow with Rosa, Bahamut with Rydia, and Attack/Jump with the guys (if Edge isn't dead as gently caress) and if you're not getting anywhere, welp, level harder. I didn't really like IV, if you can't tell.
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Oct 11, 2012 21:22
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The idea is for it to work like Persona 4, where buffs and debuffs are required to win, but which ones are up to you. There's multiple ways to gently caress your opponent up, and you get to choose which ones you prefer. Also they have as high of a success rate as normal attacks (THIS IS IMPORTANT)
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Oct 11, 2012 22:30
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Pollyanna posted:It would be excusable if there were alternatives to buffing/debuffing the poo poo out of everyone (such as making something useful out of Hide or a party-wide Jump or heavy Black Magic use or something), but unlike FFV where you have a wide variety of potential parties and therefore a whole shitload of freedom with abilities, magic, buffing/debuffing, and tricky stuff like chemistry, FFIV falls into a rut of the same thing over and over again thanks to pre-defined parties and everyone having a strict role in battle with no guarantee of actually being effective. It's just Slow with Rosa, Bahamut with Rydia, and Attack/Jump with the guys (if Edge isn't dead as gently caress) and if you're not getting anywhere, welp, level harder. IV was very significant to the Final Fantasy series in the narrative department, but mechanics wise it's pretty poo poo (at least the original was).
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Oct 11, 2012 22:44
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Pollyanna posted:That's the only way I managed to kill any of the bosses in FF4 DS. Uh I would understand your argument if you were specifically referring to the original FF4, but saying that you dislike the DS rerelease due to the same-ness of all the characters is a bit confusing to me. The biggest issue with the original FF4 was the previously mentioned rigidity in the characters. There was no customization. But the DS version added a whole mechanic for teaching people new moves and making them more than just 'generic white mage' and 'generic summoner'. You could use all the movesets of all the temporary party members to finetune the permanent party members and make them more versatile. I think that the DS release is probably the best version yet - it added an interesting mechanic to make the game similar enough for fans of the series but different enough so that it was worth replaying a few times. The only part that i disliked was the pacing - it was slow as hell if i remember correctly.
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Oct 11, 2012 22:54
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Namagem posted:The idea is for it to work like Persona 4, where buffs and debuffs are required to win, but which ones are up to you. There's multiple ways to gently caress your opponent up, and you get to choose which ones you prefer. Also they have as high of a success rate as normal attacks (THIS IS IMPORTANT) Actually, don't they have higher success rates, ie 100%? Normal attacks and other spells can miss, but I thought all debuffing spells and buffing spells always worked.
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Oct 11, 2012 22:59
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Yukari posted:Edit: Didn't later games have IMMUNE pop up instead of miss when trying to cast on an immune target? FFT actually told you whether or not a target was immune BEFORE you cast the spell.
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Oct 12, 2012 00:11
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Rooreelooo posted:The biggest issue with the original FF4 was the previously mentioned rigidity in the characters. There was no customization. But the DS version added a whole mechanic for teaching people new moves and making them more than just 'generic white mage' and 'generic summoner'. You could use all the movesets of all the temporary party members to finetune the permanent party members and make them more versatile. True, but figuring that out requires knowing who's going to leave at what time and who should get what augments, which requires you to either have already played the game or are following a walkthrough. I didn't use one and it was my first time through, so I didn't know how the mechanics for it worked or how to use it correctly. Either way, the way battles worked and the effectiveness of characters meant that I was still better off using their native abilities moreso than what they could inherit (which weren't always all that useful). The pacing wasn't nearly as bad as the long-rear end dungeons, really. edit: And by the time I know how to do things correctly and get a chance to do it, it's new game + and I don't care enough to do it over again. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 07:11
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As to the whole gameplay/story split of items/debuffs, whathaveyou, I actually had a basic rule of thumb idea (various games will poo poo on this outright, but it's just as a general idea). HP isn't health, it's literally stamina (hence why it's usually attributed to that stat). As they fight, they're parrying the enemy's attacks, but it's wearing them down to the point an attack finally hits and down they go. Potions are basically energy drinks to keep them going. With the whole KO/death thing, they're nearly dead, but just barely clinging to life. If the whole party goes, they all slowly shuffle off their collective mortal coils, but if they win/flee, they have time to bandage up their fallen and move on. A phoenix down basically stabilizes their condition and gets them back on their feet. Things like Aeris dying are because she got stabbed right through and died instantly. She's not down and slowly dying, she's just plain gone. Ditto for Red XIII's father.
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Oct 12, 2012 08:22
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Neddy Seagoon posted:HP isn't health, it's literally stamina (hence why it's usually attributed to that stat). As they fight, they're parrying the enemy's attacks, but it's wearing them down to the point an attack finally hits and down they go. Potions are basically energy drinks to keep them going. Parrying that dinosaur as it munched me up in its jaws has got me knackered. Good thing we brought that six-pack of Surge.
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Oct 12, 2012 11:25
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Zinco posted:Parrying that dinosaur as it munched me up in its jaws has got me knackered. Good thing we brought that six-pack of Surge. Well I did say some things would utterly poo poo on the idea. More "Parrying that group of orcs trying to hack our heads off" than "God's going to poke us with his little finger and squish us all"
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Oct 12, 2012 11:33
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It's funny that should come up here, because this game actually has literally the most extreme example of ridiculous battle animations.
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Oct 12, 2012 12:20
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George posted:It's funny that should come up here, because this game actually has literally the most extreme example of ridiculous battle animations. I was going to mention Sabin, but then I remembered that Tifa can suplex literally everything too, so...
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Oct 12, 2012 13:59
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But can she suplex a train?
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Oct 12, 2012 14:09
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Dauntasa posted:But can she suplex a train?
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Oct 12, 2012 14:56
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Tupperwarez posted:Did you think it was a coincidence that the Train Graveyard was so close to Tifa's place? Hmm. And the trains that she's ridden have all mysteriously disappeared, and are never ridden by the party again. And the train to sector 5 freaked out and sounded the alarm because it thought it was next. It all makes sense now. To be honest, I was wondering why the game's final boss was Tifa throwing trains at you.
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Oct 12, 2012 15:01
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XyloJW posted:Yeah, why are people jokingly talking about the game's mechanics! They ought to be discussing Don't mind the joke posts obviously, but it's really just one of those dumb nerdy debates that tends end up with people saying Aerith's death scene would have been more dramatically appropriate if they'd have stopped it for a minute to have Cloud yell "CURE, CURE, CURE! LIFE! LIFE 2!". And I don't trust the internet enough to buy that everyone was going down that road ironically. But anyway, with the JRPG gameplay-story Korean border and all, train suplexing is always canon.
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Oct 12, 2012 15:16
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