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Ineptus Mechanicus posted:This must be a common thing because there's a few of these in my area too. The "Mitsubishi dealer" with a few token Lancers and Outlanders, then a sea of awful cars all with around 90k miles going for $8-9k in their offshoot "King of Credit" lot. I guess it'll be an easy transition when Mitsu finally pulls out of the US, their dealers will just devote more time to ripping used car buyers off. my friend test drove an evo back when the 8 was the latest car and the salesman was basically this guy:  He was terrified of my friend doing anything at all in the car, even legal acceleration to get on the highway. It made the test drive so unpleasant. The lot was all sad used cars, Mitsu SUVs, a million lancer O-Z "rally spec" and like 2 evos. In contrast: the Nissan dealership practically threw us the keys to a 350 Z and basically said if we got arrested they would get the car but we'd have to make bail ourselves. I wasn't even shopping for cars and I almost bought one.
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Nov 9, 2012 15:57
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I was looking at the 10 half-heartedly(4G63 4lyf) and I had a similar experience it really put me off doing it. It's sad to see Mitsu go down the drain like this.
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Nov 9, 2012 16:09
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To those mourning the death of NA Suzuki cars: don't bother. I owned an SX4, and while it was a great car in some respects (surprisingly, the engine), it really was a piece of poo poo. The AWD is NOT rugged. The manual recommends against using it on wet pavement, which is odd, because it's on by default. So if it started to rain you were supposed to shut it off. The AWD was for soft roads and snow, not everyday driving. I hooned around in it for two years before the AWD "center diff" clutch pack wore out. I don't know if all the Haldex systems are this fragile, but that car swore me off of them. Hard driving or not, powertrain components shouldn't wear out in two years. The Impreza is the better car, and is absolutely worth the price premium if you want AWD, and would like to have it available in more than half the cases where AWD is desirable.
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Nov 9, 2012 16:25
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sliderule posted:To those mourning the death of NA Suzuki cars: don't bother. I owned an SX4, and while it was a great car in some respects (surprisingly, the engine), it really was a piece of poo poo. I looked at a picture of the SX4's switch and the settings are "2WD", "Auto" and "lock". It seems pretty obvious to me that you are supposed to leave it in either auto or 2WD, so which one did you have it set on?
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Nov 9, 2012 16:41
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Throatwarbler posted:The thing was that there never really were any turbo charged V8s in the past - How many can you name? I guess for the reasons of the exhaust pulses and packaging. Having an efficient turbo V8 required a completely new ground up engine design, which Audi and BMW have now done. I don't think they are going to make any NA versions of those engines. MB's 5.5l AMG engine still uses a traditional intake/exhaust flow direction though. There have been a fair amount starting with the 288GTO/F40 and Lotus Esprit, but a bunch of manufacturers rolled out twin turbo v8s in the 2000s. edit: oh my god this title
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Nov 9, 2012 18:46
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Throatwarbler posted:I looked at a picture of the SX4's switch and the settings are "2WD", "Auto" and "lock". It seems pretty obvious to me that you are supposed to leave it in either auto or 2WD, so which one did you have it set on? You can't "leave it" in automatic without risking damaging the system. 2wd in anything but snow. But it's ridiculous to say "oh yes, you can use this system on snow, but if you happen to drive where other people's tracks have exposed wet pavement, you should switch to 2wd lest you endanger the AWD system. But then as soon as both of your axles are on snow you can switch it back on." Like what the gently caress does it have an "auto" setting for if this is the case? I suppose I shouldn't have said "on by default". What I should have said is that "automatic" means "on". Most users will assume that "auto" means "on when it needs to be". Note that I'm not blaming Suzuki for the system failing. I'm just noting that it's fragile, and that the system in the Impreza won't break in 2 years even if it's driven hard.
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Nov 9, 2012 19:11
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Muffinpox posted:There have been a fair amount starting with the 288GTO/F40 GM, oddly enough, has a history of turbo V8s when they were very unusual. Oldsmobile had one in 62, Pontiac in 1980. Of course neither were especially good.
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Nov 9, 2012 21:13
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sliderule posted:You can't "leave it" in automatic without risking damaging the system. That isn't at all true though - in auto it will operate just like a CRV or other Honda AWD and operate mostly in FWD. You won't damage the car by leaving it in that mode all the time. The Lock mode is the one you shouldn't be driving on pavement in 
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Nov 10, 2012 00:16
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dissss posted:That isn't at all true though - in auto it will operate just like a CRV or other Honda AWD and operate mostly in FWD. You won't damage the car by leaving it in that mode all the time. From the "auto" setting: quote:during normal driving on paved roads, torque distribution to the rear wheels is reduced to achieve the nearly front wheel drive condition So in AWD auto, that center diff is always engaged. If what sliderule says is true about its fragility, leaving it in auto will wear it out prematurely.
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Nov 10, 2012 07:35
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Linedance posted:From the "auto" setting: It doesn't say anywhere that you should switch it to 2wd on wet roads (which makes no sense anyway) or otherwise not leave it in auto.
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Nov 10, 2012 07:52
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Weinertron posted:Can someone catch me up with what's so wrong with the VAG 5 cylinder? I know 2.0 bad 1.8T good, but what's wrong with the 2.5? I had a Jetta rental last week and almost took it back for something else. The 2.5 and automatic was arguably the worst part of the car, followed by the artless, hard plastic dashboard. The 2.5 is somewhat coarse when pushed, makes unpleasant noises, and isn't particularly responsive. There was also significant hesitation off the line. And the gas mileage wasn't particularly good. I think the 2.5 is the 2.slow with an extra cylinder. It sure feels and sounds that way. The seats were pretty good, and it had a decent ride. Handling wasn't as good as previous generation Jettas. The stereo was pretty nice though, but the gages screamed "cheap". Personally, I'd rather pay an extra $2500 or $3000 for the 1.8 and a nicer interior than the decontented Jetta.
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Nov 10, 2012 18:45
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Goober Peas posted:Handling wasn't as good as previous generation Jettas. That's pretty damning, I didn't think there could be a car that handled worse than the MkIV Jetta.
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Nov 11, 2012 06:05
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I used to own a Mk. V Jetta with the 2.5 & an auto slushbox. The power just wasn't really there. Fuel economy was ok though. When I would go from driving my 1.8T GTI to the Jetta, I just always found myself yelling at the speedo to move faster. However, I will say that the ride was comfy and the noise level on the inside was always at a minimum.
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Nov 11, 2012 06:12
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My wife has a MkV Jetta with the 2.5/manual. I think it's a decently fun car. As with many cars, I think the manual transmission is crucial. It gets 30-32 mpg consistently. The 2.5 is more responsive than the NA EJ25 in my old Forester, but less responsive than the KL-DE in my sister's old 626. The 5-speed has good shift feel. The 2.5 is not just a 2.slow with an extra cylinder. The 2.slow is a 2-valve SOHC and the 2.5 is a 4-valve DOHC.
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Nov 12, 2012 00:53
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So apparently GM wants an 8-speed auto in the C7, but doesn't have it ready yet... so they're looking at a short-term deal with Aisin. On one hand, Aisin's autos sure seem to work well enough so I don't really have any complaints there. On the other hand, I feel bad for anyone who buys one of those because it's going to end up being an orphan as far as aftermarket support goes. I don't get why GM doesn't do what it did with the C6 launch. The 6L80E wasn't ready for 2005, so they released the C6 with the 4L60E and upgraded for MY2006. Even though it's a one-year combo, the 4L60E itself has been around for-loving-ever and there's really nothing C6-specific about it, so people who bought '05 autos still have options.
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Nov 14, 2012 00:04
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GM sure is stubbornly old-tech with the Corvette. I guess it keeps costs down but are people still willing to spend money on an automatic that isn't a dual clutch transmission in this price range?
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Nov 14, 2012 02:17
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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IOwnCalculus posted:So apparently GM wants an 8-speed auto in the C7, but doesn't have it ready yet... so they're looking at a short-term deal with Aisin. Lots of GM cars have used Aisin transmissions? The CTS and the Camaro both do, it's not that out of the ordinary.
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Nov 14, 2012 02:27
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Pr0kjayhawk posted:GM sure is stubbornly old-tech with the Corvette. I guess it keeps costs down but are people still willing to spend money on an automatic that isn't a dual clutch transmission in this price range? Nobody should be encouraged to spend money on an automatic Corvette.
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Nov 14, 2012 02:31
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Throatwarbler posted:Lots of GM cars have used Aisin transmissions? The CTS and the Camaro both do, it's not that out of the ordinary. I think the point being that this particular transmission, while still probably being very good, is not going to be shared with other GM products and will most likely be a one year only gearbox. That will make performance upgrades rare and costly. You know, for the guys that need to build up their automatic Corvette to handle 600 horsepower. Edit: The only firsthand experience I have with Aisin transmissions is the six speed in my mothers 3.5 Ford Fusion Sport. It's regarded to be a lot better than Ford's six speed used in lesser cars. Handles more power, really reliable, shifts good yadda yadda yadda. I won't blame GM not going the dual-clutch route. Automatic Corvette buyers might be put off by an automated manual. Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 02:33
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There are plenty of manufacturers that replaced their automatics with DCTs and kept the manuals as options, no reason why GM couldn't do that as well. It'll be interesting to see if the Z06 will have a dual clutch as an option. I can't imagine it would be the only option for fear of an uprising but it would also likely lose out to the competition without one.
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Nov 14, 2012 02:47
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Pr0kjayhawk posted:GM sure is stubbornly old-tech with the Corvette. I guess it keeps costs down but are people still willing to spend money on an automatic that isn't a dual clutch transmission in this price range? Are there any cars in this price range that have dual clutch transmissions? The only ones I can think of are VAG/Porsche cars like the the Boxster/Cayman and the Audi S-cars, and even then the Audis were never offered with a V8 and a dual clutch setup. Equivalent BMWs and the Mercedes C also only offer conventional manuals. I feel like the cost of a dual clutch that can handle even base Corvette levels of power would make the price way too high. I can't name a single equivalent unit that would easily handle 430+ hp other than the one in the M3 or the stuff in supercars. Nobody would pay for it, and it's not like it would make a huge difference since most of the people who would care would be getting the manual anyway. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 02:58
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Pr0kjayhawk posted:GM sure is stubbornly old-tech with the Corvette. I guess it keeps costs down but are people still willing to spend money on an automatic that isn't a dual clutch transmission in this price range? I imagine automatic 'Vette buyers fall into two camps: people who don't want or know how to drive a stick, or people who primarily drag race. The former could probably care less about a DCT and the latter might actually be turned off at the idea.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:05
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oRenj9 posted:I imagine automatic 'Vette buyers fall into two camps: people who don't want or know how to drive a stick, or people who primarily drag race. The former could probably care less about a DCT and the latter might actually be turned off at the idea. In my opinion, automatic 'Vette buyers are there to subsidize cool stuff like the Z06. I mean, the car is only a $50-70k car for the vast majority of buyers.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:08
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I'd say most auto-vette owners bought it because of the name and the looks. Since that's the only reason, no need or desire to get a manual. You can only get a Z06 in manual, which I think is awesome. Edit: I believe this even more because I find the masses have never heard of a Z06 - only car people have. When I tell people I drive a Z06, I get a blank stare and follow up with "a Corvette" - I don't bother explaining further at that point, because they wouldn't really care anyways. Otherwise they ask if that's a Nissan or BMW. Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 03:13
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Hashal posted:I'd say most auto-vette owners bought it because of the name and the looks. Since that's the only reason, no need or desire to get a manual. You can only get a Z06 in manual, which I think is awesome. Ford is doing this too, and it's great. The GT500, boss 302, and focus ST are all manual only.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:25
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Cream_Filling posted:Are there any cars in this price range that have dual clutch transmissions? New Audi S6/7 has a DCT with a 420hp V8. Counterpoint: VW/Audi seems to have a different metric for "reliability" than other carmakers especially concerning new transmissions. The M3 wasn't that expensive, the sedan started at under $60k right? Counterpoint: The LS3 puts out more torque at idle than the M3's engine does at redline.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:31
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Throatwarbler posted:New Audi S6/7 has a DCT with a 420hp V8. Counterpoint: VW/Audi seems to have a different metric for "reliability" than other carmakers especially concerning new transmissions. the audi S6 starts at 72 grand, the audi s7 starts at 80 grand. the base corvette starts at 50. That's a pretty large gap.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:38
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I used to live in Bowling Green, Kentucky. For those of you who don't know, every single Corvette ever made has come from there. Seeing an average of 50+ Corvettes a day was about normal. When I would see people driving automatic Corvettes, they were almost always 50+ with their wife riding shotgun. The reason behind buying the autos is simple: It's so their wives can drive it on occasion.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:48
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Powershift posted:the audi S6 starts at 72 grand, the audi s7 starts at 80 grand. the base corvette starts at 50. That's a pretty large gap. Those things compete with the 550i and E550, all these cars just have big MSRPs but never sell without huge incentives because they are still just an A6/5 series at the end of the day. Remember the 8 speed autos that most of the cars in this class come with are the same ones you get in a V6 Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 03:49
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As a second-hand auto corvette owner I'd like to say I bought it because it was a great deal. The problem with manual corvettes is the manual is a premium option on top of the base price, so people get it in their heads that the manual transmission they've probably been molesting for however many miles is now worth thousands more selling it used. 8 speeds sure seems like a lot though. Don't you eventually hit a point of diminishing returns where the amount of time in the peak power band isn't worth the time lost shifting? I had aspirations of getting a used C7 in 5-ish years but I'm starting to think it might be nice just having something tiny with less power. Not Miata less-power but something like that.
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Nov 14, 2012 04:25
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Throatwarbler posted:Those things compete with the 550i and E550, all these cars just have big MSRPs but never sell without huge incentives because they are still just an A6/5 series at the end of the day. Remember the 8 speed autos that most of the cars in this class come with are the same ones you get in a V6 Same design, yes, but there are different spec levels to match different outputs. A BMW 760i would no doubt shred the 8HP45 in the v6 ram. There's probably a good reason the ram ram ram v8s have yet to receive an 8 speed, and a good chance the SRT8 davebo posted:As a second-hand auto corvette owner I'd like to say I bought it because it was a great deal. The problem with manual corvettes is the manual is a premium option on top of the base price, so people get it in their heads that the manual transmission they've probably been molesting for however many miles is now worth thousands more selling it used. 8 speeds sure seems like a lot though. Don't you eventually hit a point of diminishing returns where the amount of time in the peak power band isn't worth the time lost shifting? I had aspirations of getting a used C7 in 5-ish years but I'm starting to think it might be nice just having something tiny with less power. Not Miata less-power but something like that. Absolutely. Even the automated manuals in class 8 trucks are only going with 9 or 10 gears. on pavement, i've never had to use any more than 12 even loaded to 105,000lbs. Splitting the bottom 5 gears on hard ground takes more time to shift than it does to accelerate in full gears. Granted i have a fairly low rear gear, but still Powershift fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 04:25
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Powershift posted:Same design, yes, but there are different spec levels to match different outputs. A BMW 760i would no doubt shred the 8HP45 in the v6 ram. There's probably a good reason the ram ram ram v8s have yet to receive an 8 speed, and a good chance the SRT8 The one in the A6/5 series is the 8HP45.
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Nov 14, 2012 05:06
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Throatwarbler posted:The one in the A6/5 series is the 8HP45. in the 310hp a6, and the 300hp 535i, yes. The 550i uses the 8HP70. edit: the 8 speed transmission is expensive enough that the 4.8L v8/6 speed auto is now the base model truck. the V6/8-speed is the next level up. Powershift fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 05:57
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http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-grand-cherokee-2014.html They recently spotted a Grand Cherokee SRT8 with the new 8 speed, so it's probably going to make it to the rest of the lineup as well. I wonder what the power ceiling is for this variation of the transmission.
Tekne fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 07:58
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Tekne posted:http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-grand-cherokee-2014.html They recently spotted a Grand Cherokee SRT8 with the new 8 speed, so it's probably going to make it to the rest of the lineup as well. I wonder what the power ceiling is for this variation of the transmission. The only 2 variations chrysler is expected to be using is the 8HP45 and 8HP70. the 70 is rated for 516 ft/lbs of torque. the current srt 6.4 produces 470hp/465 ft/lbs, but if it stays at that level they're going to seriously fall behind the competition.
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Nov 14, 2012 08:42
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They are going to come up with Maserati and Alfa variants of the 300 and Grand Cherokee which probably have bigger engines and more power, but really what competes with the SRT cars? GM and Ford don't have anything similar, and all the European stuff is much more expensive. The Hyundai Genesis/Equus 5.0l is the only one I can think of, and head to head the 300 beats them up pretty handily. EDIT: Reading Lutz's book, IMO the absolute worst thing to come about from the 2008 financial crisis was when OBUMMER forced GM to cancel the supercharged Escalade-V that they already had ready to go. I mean yeah I know some people lost their jobs and houses and all that but god drat the lack of a hi-po Escalade still makes me wake up screaming some nights. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 09:04
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Throatwarbler posted:EDIT: Reading Lutz's book, IMO the absolute worst thing to come about from the 2008 financial crisis was when OBUMMER forced GM to cancel the supercharged Escalade-V that they already had ready to go. I mean yeah I know some people lost their jobs and houses and all that but god drat the lack of a hi-po Escalade still makes me wake up screaming some nights. The Escalade is a pretty soulless driving experience outside of the nice engine noise if you get a non-stock exhaust. Its pretty competent given the size and shape but its surprisingly hard to have any emotional connection to the thing. An Escalade-V might have been a little livelier but its pushing rocks up a hill to make that thing entertaining.
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Nov 14, 2012 16:40
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The bigger issue is that an Escalade-V should have been a license to print money for GM.
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Nov 14, 2012 17:42
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Q_res posted:The bigger issue is that an Escalade-V should have been a license to print money for GM. I'm kind of surprised that GM is just now jumping onto the whole luxury package thing that's had customers throwing obscene amounts of money at Ford for a few years now. Add $5000 in upgrades, charge $20000 for them and start lighting the cigars. I guess they had the Denali trim with GMC, but I don't see many of those where pretty much every single F150 I see is a Platinum or King Ranch and whatever else they have.
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Nov 14, 2012 18:23
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fknlo posted:I'm kind of surprised that GM is just now jumping onto the whole luxury package thing that's had customers throwing obscene amounts of money at Ford for a few years now. Add $5000 in upgrades, charge $20000 for them and start lighting the cigars. I'd assume all those F-150s were just extra logos and colors they slapped on kind of like all of those special edition Wranglers until I checked out their website. Now I'm really amazed by how many 40K+ F-150s I've seen driving around, Ford must make a killing off those things. (the Raptor does look pretty nifty though)
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Nov 14, 2012 19:18
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