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Fortuitous Bumble posted:I'd assume all those F-150s were just extra logos and colors they slapped on kind of like all of those special edition Wranglers until I checked out their website. Now I'm really amazed by how many 40K+ F-150s I've seen driving around, Ford must make a killing off those things. I can only speak for Canada (and perhaps only Western Canada at that), but surveys have shown that the F-150 was the vehicle most commonly purchased and driven by millionaires. It may seem counterintuitive, but (a part of) the market that buys F-150s has tonnes of money. I don't know if this holds true to the same degree with other pickups and SUVs. The Escalade-V wouldn't be an acceptable choice for a rich guy looking to fly below the radar, whereas a luxury F-150 fits the bill perfectly.
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Nov 14, 2012 19:53
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fknlo posted:I'm kind of surprised that GM is just now jumping onto the whole luxury package thing that's had customers throwing obscene amounts of money at Ford for a few years now. Add $5000 in upgrades, charge $20000 for them and start lighting the cigars. This makes me bitter because in my fantasy world where I am buying a Focus ST I want those recaro seats but I don't want the myford crap or care about heated seats or the majority of that package. EDIT: I am fantasizing about a $25,000 car and not willing to spend extra imaginary money to boot. Teenage xguard would be so pissed. EDIT2: Oh poo poo I just doubled checked and the seats come in the ST2 package that just has the nice stereo and XM. Ugghh must buy Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 19:56
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Whatever happened to the days where you could special order cars from the factory and get any possible combination of features as long as you were willing to wait for them to make it? Was this only a Chrysler and AMC deal (the only two manufacturers I know where you could do this)?
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Nov 14, 2012 20:16
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The King of Swag posted:Whatever happened to the days where you could special order cars from the factory and get any possible combination of features as long as you were willing to wait for them to make it? Was this only a Chrysler and AMC deal (the only two manufacturers I know where you could do this)? Ford definitely does it, and it's very easy and painless. I think its much more feasible for cars manufactured in the US. Edit: Oh, you still need to fall into their option package brackets, but generally there's a ton of flexibility and standalone options.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:26
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depends. You can do almost anything with Minis and scions (i think scions) but most other companies have set option packages you get shoehorned into.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:26
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The King of Swag posted:Whatever happened to the days where you could special order cars from the factory and get any possible combination of features as long as you were willing to wait for them to make it? Was this only a Chrysler and AMC deal (the only two manufacturers I know where you could do this)? This used to be the case with pretty much all manufacturers. It's just not efficient. Much cheaper and easier to just group all options into packages.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:27
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General rule of thumb is the longer a model has been out, the more flexibility you'll have in getting just the options you want.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:47
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The King of Swag posted:Whatever happened to the days where you could special order cars from the factory and get any possible combination of features as long as you were willing to wait for them to make it? Was this only a Chrysler and AMC deal (the only two manufacturers I know where you could do this)? It's cheaper to standardize on power windows than to keep both power and armstrong windows in the factory: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/avoidable-contact-airbags-killed-the-am-radio-star/ quote:Why did power windows cost more than roll-up windows in 1973? It’s easy to understand; it took a man, or a team of men, earning the aforementioned living wage, longer to build, assemble, and install power window components. In 2009, the whole deal is “subbed out” to a supplier who produces snap-in power window assemblies. It’s usually cheaper to get 100,000 power window assemblies than it is to get 50,000 roll-up assemblies and 50,000 power assemblies, plus you don’t have to train the $12/hour temps who (don’t tell anyone!) actually do a lot of “low-skill” jobs on American assembly lines how to install two different kinds of window assemblies. The door can be made simpler because it doesn’t have to accommodate two different kinds of controls, which leads to more volume discounts, and so on. You can still get this from Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz, but you're going to pay for it.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:51
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Cocoa Crispies posted:It's cheaper to standardize on power windows than to keep both power and armstrong windows in the factory: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/avoidable-contact-airbags-killed-the-am-radio-star/ I think I read somewhere (here?) that power window assemblies are actually lighter than manual window assemblies. What I don't get are cars like my old Panda. Power windows in front, manual windows in back. Why not just put the same kind of windows both front and back?
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Nov 14, 2012 22:28
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KozmoNaut posted:What I don't get are cars like my old Panda. Power windows in front, manual windows in back. Why not just put the same kind of windows both front and back?
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Nov 14, 2012 22:32
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My E30 came with manual rear windows. Dead easy to swap in electric ones, all the wiring etc is in there already. I'm sure it would have been more cost-effective to just use electric all round on all models.
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Nov 14, 2012 22:51
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why, you can have any option in the world! They'll hand paint a dragon on your door panel I don't know what you people are complaining about. http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/phantom-family/phantom-extended-wheelbase/bespoke/
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Nov 14, 2012 22:54
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PT6A posted:I can only speak for Canada (and perhaps only Western Canada at that), but surveys have shown that the F-150 was the vehicle most commonly purchased and driven by millionaires. It may seem counterintuitive, but (a part of) the market that buys F-150s has tonnes of money. I don't know if this holds true to the same degree with other pickups and SUVs. The Escalade-V wouldn't be an acceptable choice for a rich guy looking to fly below the radar, whereas a luxury F-150 fits the bill perfectly. How many of these are that particular households "ONLY VEHICLE" versus the probably more likely "FOURTH VEHICLE for picking up cases of Chateau Latour and 75" TV's from Costco." Also, tbh, aren't the really super "gently caress you" rich families in your area mostly gigantic land owner/rancher/oil baron types?
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Nov 14, 2012 23:13
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Keyser S0ze posted:How many of these are that particular households "ONLY VEHICLE" versus the probably more likely "FOURTH VEHICLE for picking up cases of Chateau Latour and 75" TV's from Costco." I think I read somewhere that Chevy was always the brand that sold the most $60k+ vehicles, those 2500HD Silverados ain't cheap. Look, most people aren't sports car buffs, they just want a comfortable, practical vehicle for hauling people and stuff. For most people that's a pickup truck, and since "millionaire" basically describes "anyone with a house", most of these "millionaires" just have nicer pickup trucks.
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Nov 15, 2012 01:55
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Keyser S0ze posted:How many of these are that particular households "ONLY VEHICLE" versus the probably more likely "FOURTH VEHICLE for picking up cases of Chateau Latour and 75" TV's from Costco."
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Nov 15, 2012 01:58
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I've heard nothing bad about Aisin transmissions, but I had to wonder about GM's transmission choice for the first-gen Equinox. Even setting aside the fact that it had the 3400 as the only engine option for far too long (also a dumb move, the drat thing sounded like it had 200k hard miles straight off the lot), they used a five speed Aisin unit that didn't have overdrive. Seriously, fifth was 1:1. Sure, it had a 2.73 final drive, but so did Buick Centurys back in the early 90's, and they had a 4T60E with a 0.70 fourth. Why did they bother? Was it just to say, "Yeah, we have a five speed", while the RAV4/CRV/whatever the competition was back then was still rocking four speeds?
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Nov 15, 2012 02:11
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Powershift posted:no, the majority are probably mid-high level management at any of the big oil companies. there are a lot of areas near downtown calgary where they are ripping out 60 year old 600 square foot houses, and building 3 million dollar 6000+ square foot mansions on the lot. King ranch, harley davidson, and platinum f-150s are a fairly common sight, and these are $70,000 vehicles. Don't forget about the rig pig demographic, who go and spend the remainder of their first pay cheque (that wasn't spent on hookers and booze in McMurray and high-stakes poker in camp) on the biggest, most expensive truck that money can buy.
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Nov 15, 2012 03:24
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Also keep in mind that in North America, the F150 is the most popular vehicle among all human beings, so they gotta sell a fair number to people with some money.
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Nov 15, 2012 05:08
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Powershift posted:no, the majority Jesus, how many calgarians do we have in here? e: And I get the sense that the Kingranch/whatever really is used as the primary vehicle, and there are toys at home and something else for the wife to drive.
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Nov 15, 2012 05:13
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I seem to get the feeling that Dodge is more popular than Ford in Calgary. Chrysler's marketshare in Canada is much larger than their share in the US, sales in Canada are usually neck to neck with GM and occasionally overtake them, and Ram is consistently the second best selling truck, sometimes even outselling both of the GM trucks. Basically every single Canadian under 35 grew up riding around in one of those awful jellybean Dodge Caravans. The most terrifying thing is that apparently the most popular drivetrain for the F-150 is the 3.5l twin turbo. The kind of engine that you use to only get in an S4 or 300ZX is now literally one of the most widely produced engines in the world.
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Nov 15, 2012 05:48
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I see a ton of Ecoboosts around town so I can believe it. It's a pretty decent proposition.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:05
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Throatwarbler posted:I seem to get the feeling that Dodge is more popular than Ford in Calgary. Chrysler's marketshare in Canada is much larger than their share in the US, sales in Canada are usually neck to neck with GM and occasionally overtake them, and Ram is consistently the second best selling truck, sometimes even outselling both of the GM trucks. Basically every single Canadian under 35 grew up riding around in one of those awful jellybean Dodge Caravans. It's probably also due to the fact that it doesn't matter how poo poo something is, if it looks like it'll save them a few bucks up front, Canadians will buy it. And Chrysler spent most of the 00's selling some deeply discounted poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:15
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Throatwarbler posted:The most terrifying thing is that apparently the most popular drivetrain for the F-150 is the 3.5l twin turbo. The kind of engine that you use to only get in an S4 or 300ZX is now literally one of the most widely produced engines in the world. Trucks have been pretty high power for a while now, the Tundra, Ram 1500 and Silverado have been producing as much power for several years now. And moving two-and-a-half tons of truck isn't easy. Move new V6 powered sedans would have no trouble keeping up with an Ecoboost F150. I'm excited to see what people will start doing with the engine once it becomes very prevalent.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:18
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Linedance posted:It's probably also due to the fact that it doesn't matter how poo poo something is, if it looks like it'll save them a few bucks up front, Canadians will buy it. And Chrysler spent most of the 00's selling some deeply discounted poo poo. I think the "home team" advantage helps a lot, since all those things were made in the cradle of Canadian civilization - Windsor.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:30
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oRenj9 posted:Trucks have been pretty high power for a while now, the Tundra, Ram 1500 and Silverado have been producing as much power for several years now. And moving two-and-a-half tons of truck isn't easy. Move new V6 powered sedans would have no trouble keeping up with an Ecoboost F150. I meant that those were famously unreliable cars and the twin turbo V6 is a famously unreliable drive train configuration.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:34
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Just to be clear on this, you're scared of a Ford TT V6 and your examples are an Audi and a ~20 year old Nissan? Makes sense, especially given how bad that Ford CVT was. You know, the one they didn't design and simply bought from Aisin.
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Nov 15, 2012 13:56
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Wasn't a lot of the unreliability due to packaging? I know that was the case with the VAG 2.7TT, and I've heard that the 300ZX is awful as well. The Ecoboost V6 is only being used in vehicles with relatively large engine bays - F150, Taurus, Explorer, Flex. Hopefully that allowed Ford to not make as many compromises.
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Nov 15, 2012 13:57
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Q_res posted:Just to be clear on this, you're scared of a Ford TT V6 and your examples are an Audi and a ~20 year old Nissan? Makes sense, especially given how bad that Ford CVT was. You know, the one they didn't design and simply bought from Aisin. Here's a list of past twin turbo gas V6s that have been reliable: 1)GTR, I guess. 2)? The Ford CVT that was bad was a joint venture between Ford and ZF, it only lasted for 2 years after which they stopped using it and shut the whole operation down. Maybe you're thinking of the Aisin 6 speed in the Fusion/MKZ? The new Volvos and Land Rovers that use Ford engines still use it I think.
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Nov 15, 2012 14:48
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Ford has tested the absolute hell out of the Ecoboost stuff. I remember reading an article where they intentionally did things like killing the engine with white-hot turbos, running them on contaminated gas, low oil pressure, etc. They also did that line of "EcoBoost torture test" videos. The only thing I can really think of as a problem is the turbos cast into the exhaust manifold but maybe they've changed that. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem for Livernois to pop them out and replace them with bigger units.
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Nov 15, 2012 15:32
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Throatwarbler posted:The Ford CVT that was bad was a joint venture between Ford and ZF, it only lasted for 2 years after which they stopped using it and shut the whole operation down. Maybe you're thinking of the Aisin 6 speed in the Fusion/MKZ? The new Volvos and Land Rovers that use Ford engines still use it I think. The 6-speed auto used in the Freestyle/Five Hundred was an Aisin unit, that's where I got that from. So, mea culpa on that one. That said, the Fusion doesn't use an Aisin anymore. GM and Ford co-developed a 6 speed transaxle, it replaced both the Aisin 6 speed and the CVT. The Fusion has used that since 2010 (and the 2013 still uses it). As an aside, I still find it amusing that the Fusion and the Malibu use essentially the same transaxle. Incidentally, Ford and GM are cooperating on new transmissions again. GM taking lead on a 9 speed transaxle and Ford taking lead on a 10 speed transmission for RWD application. Q_res fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 15:58
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Why can't we get some more hot hatches over here? Not only is Mercedes not bringing the 350 hp AWD A45 AMG hatch, they're likely not importing any hatchback version of the A class. I've been car shopping for a performance hatch with an automatic transmission and the list is pretty much: GTI, A3. No BMW M135i for us, no RS3, and now we get skipped over by Mercedes. Apparently they will make a watered down, crossover version of the A class. Bleh.
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Nov 15, 2012 16:55
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what about an X1 35 Msport? It's basically E46 sized (but taller obviously).  
Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 17:04
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sim posted:Why can't we get some more hot hatches over here? Not only is Mercedes not bringing the 350 hp AWD A45 AMG hatch, they're likely not importing any hatchback version of the A class. I've been car shopping for a performance hatch with an automatic transmission and the list is pretty much: GTI, A3. No BMW M135i for us, no RS3, and now we get skipped over by Mercedes. Apparently they will make a watered down, crossover version of the A class. Bleh. Seriously, this is the one Mercedes I've gotten excited over in years and we can't get it. It's beautiful. 
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Nov 15, 2012 17:16
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sim posted:Why can't we get some more hot hatches over here? Not only is Mercedes not bringing the 350 hp AWD A45 AMG hatch, they're likely not importing any hatchback version of the A class. I've been car shopping for a performance hatch with an automatic transmission and the list is pretty much: GTI, A3. No BMW M135i for us, no RS3, and now we get skipped over by Mercedes. Apparently they will make a watered down, crossover version of the A class. Bleh. It's hard to tell if Mitsubishi is still in business these days but they did in theory offer a Lancer Ralliart sportback that came with the dual clutch. There's also the Nissan Juke, although both of these are sort of stretching the definition of "performance". The X1 is a truly wretched looking car in person. It will never be fast enough for me to be worth having to look at that stupid nose every day. vvvv  Seriously I'm the last person to complain about ugly cars but anyone who buys an X1 must be legally blind.
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 17:18
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Keyser S0ze posted:what about an X1 35 Msport? It's basically E46 sized (but taller obviously). Urgh, that looks vile. Can't get over the looks. Would rather drive a Juke.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:19
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Ford has tested the absolute hell out of the Ecoboost stuff. I remember reading an article where they intentionally did things like killing the engine with white-hot turbos, running them on contaminated gas, low oil pressure, etc. They also did that line of "EcoBoost torture test" videos. I've been shopping for a new F150 and the EcoBoost has been quite reliable...it is having trouble living up to the gas mileage claims, but considered the weight of the truck, that's a hard one to avoid. The only really big issue has been the intercooler problems but that's more of a situational/operational occurance....in high humidity situations, they would get condensation sitting in the intercooler which would then get sucked through the engine in high throttle applications, causing the engine to momentarily run like poo poo. Apparently Ford has a fix coming out this month that will eliminate that.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:21
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The X1 here is the car for people who would otherwise buy a BMW 323 but need something to put the kids in. BMW in general seems to be moving from the "luxury sportscar" niche to "people who wear track suits a lot" over the last 5 years or so. You can even opt for 18 or 19 inch chrome wheels on your refined, reserved German sports sedan.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:21
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Seat Safety Switch posted:The X1 here is the car for people who would otherwise buy a BMW 323 but need something to put the kids in. BMW in general seems to be moving from the "luxury sportscar" niche to "people who wear track suits a lot" over the last 5 years or so. The styling is certainly not reserved, nor it it very refined anymore. But, hey, sales went up! The proper car for people who would buy a BMW 3 but need something to put the kids in would be a 3 series wagon. That way it would still drive well and not look like a high-riding swoopy piece of poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:25
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Cream_Filling posted:Urgh, that looks vile. Can't get over the looks. Would rather drive a Juke. I'm pretty sure the new X5 is also going to have the same Aztek nose.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:26
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I honestly think the Juke is quite nice looking. At least from the back. The front isn't my cup of tea but it's definitely no Aztek.
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Nov 15, 2012 17:53
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