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ErIog posted:Homosexuality is a lot more accepted in the US than in some of these other places. In the US it's a lot more common to have had a personal interaction with someone that you know is gay since it's a lot easier for people to come out of the closet. Otherization of homosexuals is easier in these countries since so many are still closeted, and it's easier to prey on the ignorance of the populace. Is this ingrained in a machismo-laden culture or is it religious conservatism?
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Jan 17, 2013 00:32
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This cool map by Greg Stoll shows the evolution of same-sex marriage in the United States since the early 90s. Also has a cartogram option!
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Jan 17, 2013 03:08
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ErIog posted:Homosexuality is a lot more accepted in the US than in some of these other places. In the US it's a lot more common to have had a personal interaction with someone that you know is gay since it's a lot easier for people to come out of the closet. Otherization of homosexuals is easier in these countries since so many are still closeted, and it's easier to prey on the ignorance of the populace. Eh, depends which part of Europe you're referring to, the continent has widely varied attitudes on the issue. I think people are getting a false impression of France based on a few vocal bigots in the same way that a lot of people over here tend to stereotype Americans as loudmouthed bigots.. There is some vocal opposition but that's the same as in every country, the majority of the population don't seem to be particularly homophobic. I went to visit my boyfriend in France this summer and we felt perfectly comfortable being openly affectionate in public, no one gave us any hassle the whole time we were there.
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Jan 17, 2013 15:45
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vickser posted:Is this ingrained in a machismo-laden culture or is it religious conservatism? Comparing the Northeast or West Coast to the Southern US is about as good as comparing Sweden to England on Gay's rights to be honest. It's just as unfair to put a blanket on "US conservatism".
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Jan 18, 2013 16:16
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The President was sworn in today, and he gave his Inaugeral a little while ago. Mostly what you'd expect, but he slipped gay marriage in there:Barack Hussein Obama posted:We, the people, declare today that the most evident of truths – that all of us are created equal – is the star that guides us still; just as it guided our forebears through Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall; just as it guided all those men and women, sung and unsung, who left footprints along this great Mall, to hear a preacher say that we cannot walk alone; to hear a King proclaim that our individual freedom is inextricably bound to the freedom of every soul on Earth. Full transcript here, if you're interested. Probably doesn't mean anything in the long run, but still, a nice gesture.
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Jan 21, 2013 19:18
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Marriage stuff is nice but listing Stonewall next to Seneca Falls and Selma is a big loving deal. RI House committee will vote on the marriage bill tomorrow. It should sail through and things seem relatively on track for a floor vote by the end of January like the Speaker wanted.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:07
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Marriage stuff is nice but listing Stonewall next to Seneca Falls and Selma is a big loving deal. Yea I'm much more proud of him for being the first (unless I missed something?) national leader to acknowledge that Stonewall was more than some uppity queers having a tantrum.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:18
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Marriage stuff is nice but listing Stonewall next to Seneca Falls and Selma is a big loving deal. I remain steadfast in my belief that this election will be looked at as a watershed in a ton of social issues by the future.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:32
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Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:I remain steadfast in my belief that this election will be looked at as a watershed in a ton of social issues by the future. Agreed. However you feel about Obama, or whether or not you think anything will actually get done, today was a historic moment.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:44
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Yea I get very frustrated when people talk about Obama not doing enough for gay people, and admittedly for a while I was one of those people too, but the dude's done a lot, and has been our first leader to actually endorse gay rights beyond just 'hey gay folk, just a reminder that those Republicans actively hate and want you dead, so lesser of two evils baby!'
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Jan 21, 2013 23:50
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Speaking as a trans woman I have concerns that, along with him not talking about trans people, it'll perpetuate the myth of Stonewall being a white middle-class gay riot. 
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Jan 22, 2013 00:38
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He should have been inclusive but most people don't know what Stonewall was and I think anyone who can describe it beyond "gay NYC riot" knows who was there. Treating it as equal to Seneca Falls and Selma is a good start to get that information out there.
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Jan 22, 2013 00:56
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TinTower posted:Speaking as a trans woman I have concerns that, along with him not talking about trans people, it'll perpetuate the myth of Stonewall being a white middle-class gay riot. Im in the same boat but as much as it sucks even the GLB part of the acronym already tends to throw us under the bus when convenient. Trans people are just a harder sell because the idea of physically changing yourself scares people (among other things "oh my god stealth gays!"). Given we're on the cusp of gays actually getting rights, I feel the best course of action is to support that, and when that's handled we have an avenue to proceed.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:22
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:He should have been inclusive but most people don't know what Stonewall was and I think anyone who can describe it beyond "gay NYC riot" knows who was there. Treating it as equal to Seneca Falls and Selma is a good start to get that information out there. Is it bad that I know about Stonewall but I have to go and Wikipedia the other two now? You might be giving Americans too much credit to assume they know any of these, what with our quality public educations, and our deep investigative Kardashian-oriented journalism.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:28
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Zero VGS posted:Is it bad that I know about Stonewall but I have to go and Wikipedia the other two now? You might be giving Americans too much credit to assume they know any of these, what with our quality public educations, and our deep investigative Kardashian-oriented journalism. It's kinda bad. Every high school history course in this country covers Selma and Seneca Falls. They were massive turning points in black and women's rights.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:34
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Teddybear posted:Every high school history course in this country covers Selma and Seneca Falls. Absolutely not the case; hell I'm from Massachusetts and I never learned about Seneca Falls
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Jan 22, 2013 03:36
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Riptor posted:Absolutely not the case; hell I'm from Massachusetts and I never learned about Seneca Falls Really? That seems... Well I stand corrected, I suppose. I learned about it in high school and I guess I assumed it was more of a staple of US History courses than it apparently is. (A public school in Massachusetts, too.)
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Jan 22, 2013 03:38
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Zero VGS posted:Is it bad that I know about Stonewall but I have to go and Wikipedia the other two now? You might be giving Americans too much credit to assume they know any of these, what with our quality public educations, and our deep investigative Kardashian-oriented journalism. I knew about Stonewall and Seneca Falls, but had to Google Selma. My history courses in high school were mostly useless, though. E: I went to high school in Northeastern PA. katium fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 03:39
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Yeah I also went to high school in Mass (granted first two years were at a vocation school) but upon review they either didn't go into detail on these two or didn't mention them at all. Social Studies was one of my better classes too.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:40
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Teddybear posted:It's kinda bad. Every high school history course in this country covers Selma and Seneca Falls. They were massive turning points in black and women's rights. Went to public high school in cali, never heard of Selma or Seneca Falls. And like the other poster I know about Stonewall.
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Jan 22, 2013 04:17
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We covered Seneca Falls but not Selma or Stonewall. Our coverage of US history post-Depression consisted largely of the first 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, followed by Forrest Gump. AP US history, southern California, well-funded public high school.
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Jan 22, 2013 05:36
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Chantilly Say posted:We covered Seneca Falls but not Selma or Stonewall. Our coverage of US history post-Depression consisted largely of the first 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, followed by Forrest Gump. Same here, replace AP with IB and southern with northern(ish). It is impressive how terrible history education is in America, even (especially?) in rich, otherwise-intelligent parts of the nation.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:08
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Teddybear posted:It's kinda bad. Every high school history course in this country covers Selma and Seneca Falls. They were massive turning points in black and women's rights. Yeah, that is very much NOT the case. The only reason I know about Seneca Falls is cuz the Distillers' song of the same name.
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Jan 22, 2013 08:08
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Any history class that isn't taken at a college is very likely almost worthless. AP History included.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:41
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Man, I had a pretty good history teacher then. I'll gladly walk that back and say that it's something that really should be taught in every US history course.
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Jan 22, 2013 10:37
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Teddybear posted:I'll gladly walk that back and say that it's something that really should be taught in every US history course. Won't argue about that, although to be fair there is a LOT of stuff that should be required to be taught in history class that isn't
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Jan 22, 2013 10:44
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I grew up in mass and know Seneca falls and Selma, but I've never heard of stonewall.
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Jan 22, 2013 13:31
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Teddybear posted:Man, I had a pretty good history teacher then. I'll gladly walk that back and say that it's something that really should be taught in every US history course. Me too. My high school history wasn't all inclusive, but I remember we paid enough attention to all three events that I know wha they are and their importance to their respective movements.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:15
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I learned and knew enough for the test: Seneca Falls = convention on women's rights. I don't know anything else about it.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:26
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I just had to look them all up.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:36
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I think the first time I saw "Stonewall" written in a textbook was in an intro-level Criminal Justice course in college, in a chapter on civil rights.
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Jan 22, 2013 16:08
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This was the first I'd heard of Stonewall  But then my teachers never actually made it to the 20th century in American history. Always got stuck in Reconstruction and fizzled out around the Depression. Also I come from a place where nobody was going to mention Stonewall for fear of being tied to a truck.
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Jan 22, 2013 18:36
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If you're not familiar with Seneca Falls, please take a moment to read the Seneca Falls Declaration. It's really something.
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Jan 22, 2013 18:40
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hangedman1984 posted:Yeah, that is very much NOT the case. The only reason I know about Seneca Falls is cuz the Distillers' song of the same name. A most excellent song indeed. I learned about none of the three events in history class. My high school's history class was basically "Summary of Great American War Victories, also Vietnam was a bad idea."
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Jan 22, 2013 20:26
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I never really realized at the time how lucky I was to have a history teacher that was an ex investment banker that lost it all on black Monday and decided to teach US history with a leftist/progressive bend. Covered all three of those and spent a month on The Jungle.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:54
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It was the first I'd heard of Seneca Falls and Selma, but after coming out I took time to read up on Stonewall so I knew about that. Once again an excellent speech from Obama, and a historic moment to be sure. Also, the Rhode Island House Committee unanimously passed the same-sex marriage bill, 11-0. It's the first time a marriage bill advanced apparently. The full House is expected to take up the bill Thursday.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:47
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People are being way too blasé about yesterday's speech. The president of the United States equivocated gay rights to the civil rights and women's rights movement. This is a Big Deal. Christ remember 8 years ago when W made it a wedge issue to earn reelection? I think that's a hell of a turn around. Come to think of it, did Mittens even touch the "big bad gays" drum this cycle? That's telling to me.
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Jan 23, 2013 00:39
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:People are being way too blasé about yesterday's speech. The president of the United States equivocated gay rights to the civil rights and women's rights movement. This is a Big Deal. The only thing I know Mitt said about gay rights was that they maybe should be allowed in the boy scouts. Not quite equating the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement I know, but for a Mormon (they are like 99.9% of the reason why gays can't be scouts in the first place) that's kinda big I guess.
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Jan 23, 2013 00:58
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Mitt signed the federal marriage amendment pledge and said your standard awful stuff, but it was not a general election campaign issue. The most notable moments for gay rights in the campaign were Obama endorsing marriage and the time when Mitt stumbled upon a recently married couple thinking he could get a quick photo op with two old men in VFW caps at a NH diner.
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Jan 23, 2013 01:16
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I used to think Mitt wasn't as bad as Santorum on LGBT rights. Then I saw this: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/09/11/831201/romneys-insensitivity-to-lgbt-people-i-didnt-know-you-had-families/ and this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/romney-some-gays-are-actu_b_2022314.html Granted Santorum is still an rear end in a top hat: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/01/07/399942/santorum-tells-kids-with-gay-parents-youd-be-better-off-with-parents-in-prison/
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Jan 23, 2013 01:29
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