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leica posted:No, the problem is with the automatics. There's a very easy solution to that problem: It's called "not flooring the gas pedal constantly because you're an impatient idiot". I think it would work well for most drivers. Especially the ones who keep complaining about getting bad gas mileage from their cars, because they insist on driving above the speed limit everywhere, with either full throttle or full brake, no middle ground.
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Feb 7, 2013 18:44
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hifi posted:Please show your work. I'm currently in development of said transmission. The problem is keeping it from exploding once the warranty is up  KozmoNaut posted:There's a very easy solution to that problem: It's called "not flooring the gas pedal constantly because you're an impatient idiot". You're giving the average consumer driver way too much credit.
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Feb 7, 2013 18:48
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What about an automated manual that has the option to be operated like a normal manual? Have a clutch pedal and a nice smooth shifter, plus buttons for PRND on the dash - put the shifter in the normal manual location for neutral and push D and it's an automatic. Then they wouldn't have to worry about volume of yelling people who want manuals versus the volume of selling cars with automatics... just give each car both. None of this paddle-shifty bullshit either.
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Feb 7, 2013 18:50
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KozmoNaut posted:Ah, so it's not a problem with the cars, it's a problem with the drivers! Are you suggesting that driver training and testing in the US is anything other than terrible?
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Feb 7, 2013 18:58
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davebo posted:I don't get why most automatics don't come with various pre-configured settings so people can switch from sport to eco or highway/city/gridlock whatever. It can't be difficult to just have a button that changes a couple variables in the computer. My wife's new 2013 civic almost does this with the "eco" button they put on it. I think it just moves the shifting points and makes the heat/ac a little weaker. The car also lets her know with some bars that change color how efficient she is being. The car is getting 35-36 with mixed driving, so I am pretty happy. Too far in the future I could imagine they will expand this to change settings for city or highway driving. Its amazing that these little bars on the dashboard that turn green changed my wife from a leadfoot driver to a very slow, efficient driver.
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Feb 7, 2013 19:01
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I pretty much get to the highest gear that doesn't bog the engine and downshift only when I need to accelerate. Having owned several Miatas and a motorcycle, I've learned to watch traffic and anticipate what is going on around me. It's not rocket science, but demands more concentration than most drivers are willing to expend towards driving. drat cup holders, kids, sat nav systems, cell phones and DVD systems. 
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Feb 7, 2013 19:06
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The problem is that there is an official fuel economy measurement. For it to be a way of rating cars, it must test them equally. To test them equally, it must use set criteria. If it uses set criteria, you can optimise for those criteria, and you don't care if that is less than optimal for real-world driving. Bingo, manufacturers chase official MPG numbers, they get a gold star, customers buy the car and make a Tard Cat face every time they have to visit the pumps, the criteria for official numbers are changed to better reflect the fuel economy you'd get in the real world, manufacturers start working to that criteria instead, rinse, repeat.
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Feb 7, 2013 19:10
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Guinness posted:Are you suggesting that driver training and testing in the US is anything other than terrible? What I'm suggesting is to make driver training and testing as demanding and challenging as it currently is in the EU. Loads of people still slip through that system while being lovely drivers, I can't even imagine how bad it must be in the US. InitialDave posted:The problem is that there is an official fuel economy measurement. And yet a lot of people are able to meet or even exceed the official consumption figures, both from the EPA and EU (NEDC). They must be doing something right and a bunch of other people must be doing something wrong, since they get worse fuel mileage. It's all a matter of driver education.
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Feb 7, 2013 19:20
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davebo posted:I don't get why most automatics don't come with various pre-configured settings so people can switch from sport to eco or highway/city/gridlock whatever. It can't be difficult to just have a button that changes a couple variables in the computer. My DSG box has two settings: shift too early, or shift too late !
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Feb 7, 2013 19:31
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I really hate the pricing premium in the new Cruze diesel, $25,695. I know that's in line where TDi Volkswagons start, but still what commands the price premium in small diesel cars in the American market? If anything it should be an option on all trims, not its own special thing as I believe it is in Europe.
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Feb 7, 2013 20:22
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They've got to have a bunch of chemical stuff tacked on to the exhaust system to meet emissions requirements. That's one of the things Mazda is advertising about the diesel 6, they've figured out how to put one together that doesn't need all that stuff.
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Feb 7, 2013 20:26
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Also because it's a pretty near fully loaded model, from what Chevy has let on. Leather and all that poo poo as standard with the diesel.
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Feb 7, 2013 20:38
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KozmoNaut posted:What I'm suggesting is to make driver training and testing as demanding and challenging as it currently is in the EU. Loads of people still slip through that system while being lovely drivers, I can't even imagine how bad it must be in the US. Fully 1/4 of the people on the road in Seattle should not be allowed to drive without further driver's ed. Incidentally, a large number of them are the same people who drive large SUVs. And driving is Seattle is much less scary than in some large cities in the Midwest and East Coast (Chicago has some terrifying tollways and freeways, as does New Jersey)
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Feb 7, 2013 22:52
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BabyMauler posted:I really hate the pricing premium in the new Cruze diesel, $25,695. I know that's in line where TDi Volkswagons start, but still what commands the price premium in small diesel cars in the American market? If anything it should be an option on all trims, not its own special thing as I believe it is in Europe. They somehow managed to have it cost more than the TDI. Yeah, leather, etc. But I feel like they made two mistakes. 1. There are probably quite a few folks buying stripped out manual TDI Jettas that would buy a manual diesel Cruze if the price point of the Cruze was like 750-1250 less than the equivalent TDI Jetta. 2. They're not going to win anything but VW conquest buyers. What person who's not already insistent on buying a diesel car looks at this and says "let me buy this over the Cruze Eco?" If it were my money, I wouldn't, and I like small diesel cars.
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Feb 7, 2013 23:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They somehow managed to have it cost more than the TDI. Yeah, leather, etc. But I feel like they made two mistakes. The Cruze and all the new GM cars are more expensives car in general, Truecar shows average transaction price for a Cruze is is $2k more than the Jetta and the highest in the segment. Neither GM or VW are really offering a "value" proposition because it's a race to the bottom with Hyundai and GM especially isn't going to win that game building small cars in the US with the UAW. I wouldn't buy a diesel either but what they're doing isn't any different than VW's strategy and that's about the best they can do in this market.
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Feb 8, 2013 03:41
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I guess I don't really see the point to the diesel if you're not going to do anything different from what VW is doing. Their diesel sales are increasing, but I still don't think there's much market there.
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Feb 8, 2013 03:46
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There's no objective reason to buy a Jetta diesel either, don't kid yourselves.
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Feb 8, 2013 03:55
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NOTinuyasha posted:There's no objective reason to buy a Jetta diesel either, don't kid yourselves. As someone with a Golf TDI, this is 100% true. You can get mileage close enough to what you get with a diesel for thousands less in quite a few other cars. It was more fun to drive than those options, and price wasn't really a big concern for me, so that's why I got mine. I've told a few people that have asked me about it that they're better off buying an eco version of something else if they're strictly worried about economy.
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Feb 8, 2013 05:52
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The most compelling feature of the TDI VWs is the ability to have random people scream at you that you're some kind of retard every time you fill up. THAT'S DIESEL YOU DUMB gently caress
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Feb 8, 2013 05:55
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The only correct reply to that is "Yeah I know, but it's cheaper!".
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Feb 8, 2013 08:43
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KozmoNaut posted:The only correct reply to that is "Yeah I know, but it's cheaper!". In the States it's often not cheaper depending on geographical location. In the upper Midwest it hasn't been cheaper than even premium for quite some time.
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Feb 8, 2013 10:58
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The newst Autoline After Hours has a lengthy interview with the GM guy in charge of the new diesel. http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?cat=1513
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Feb 8, 2013 11:07
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KozmoNaut posted:The only correct reply to that is "Yeah I know, but it's cheaper!". Here in Kansas City, diesel is about 50 cents more than premium on average 
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Feb 8, 2013 13:01
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Well then, "But it gets much better mileage" could work, I guess 
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Feb 8, 2013 13:04
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KozmoNaut posted:Well then, "But it gets much better mileage" could work, I guess "I LIKE THE WAY IT MAKES MY CAR SMOKE"
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Feb 8, 2013 13:27
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I tell them, "But the pump is green so it's better for the environment right?"
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Feb 8, 2013 14:15
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Gasoline pumps are green 'round here, diesel pumps are black. Unless it's some kind of extra special V-Power or Nitro 3000 or whatever fancy-pants fuel. Those get gold handles 
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Feb 8, 2013 15:11
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They should make the volt run on diesel. Hippies would be conflicted.
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Feb 8, 2013 15:41
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Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas?
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Feb 8, 2013 16:05
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Bob NewSCART posted:Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas? Consumer perception is agonizingly slow to change, especially with cars. Most people still remember their neighbor's old smokeheap Oldsmobile diesel from the 80s and imagine all diesel cars are still a chattery, sooty mess that doesn't start when it's snowing. Also, diesels are only clearly more economical in Europe, where the tax structure makes them cheaper. In the US, especially now that diesel prices are higher than for premium gas, the economy thing is pretty dicey, especially since I believe the price premium is around $2000 on diesel engines based just on engineering requirements.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:11
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Bob NewSCART posted:Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas? Do you particularly like them? It's not going to save you any money given the pricing structure of both cars and fuel in the US so even if you don't feel either way about them why would you buy one? Most manufacturers don't bother with it. The only market segment where diesels make sense in the US are huge trucks for obvious reasons and luxury SUVs, where the expense of the diesel engine is somewhat absorbed by the bigh margins on those vehicles to begin with, the fact that the other alternative is a huge gas V8, and that most of the buyers of these vehicles just use them as glorified minivans anyway so the lack of horsepower isn't really an issue. Surprise, that's pretty much what they sell. Even when BMW had the 335d they couldn't give the drat things away and I think they were slapping $10+k incentives on them in the final years of the E90.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:23
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Bob NewSCART posted:Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas? My neighbour has a 335d and my roomate didn't believe it was a diesel because it didn't sound like a truck.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:30
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-06/self-driving-cars-more-jetsons-than-reality-for-google-designers.html I see a small but significant group of people circumventing any rules against driverless vehicles with more and more people jumping on board until the powers that be either acknowledge it works or hold out so long they're no longer relevant. It might be a long time until you can sleep in the back of your van that drives itself but I imagine a system like modern aircraft where the crew spends a lot of time just watching the computer will come pretty soon. There will probably be a time where you have to play kind of a shell game and pretend you're driving. You know the government is going to drag their heels because thats just kind of what they do but once its clear driverless is safer they'll jump all over it. Hopefully, one of the insurance companies embraces driver-less vehicles early to differentiate themselves and grab more market share.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:04
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Xguard86 posted:
I'd imagine once insurance companies figure out they can lower premiums and still make more money due to paying out fewer claims they'll lobby hard for the government to allow driverless vehicles.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:26
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Bob NewSCART posted:Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas? Edit: Anyone else seen this thing about Chrysler introducing more basic versions of the SRT models, called "Core", so you get the performance stuff without being forced to also have the additional options if you don't want/need them? InitialDave fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 19:55
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Bob NewSCART posted:Do most people not really like diesel? I've never really heard of this negative attitude toward diesels but that seems kind of retarded considering diesels are a lot more economic than conventional gas? They are noisy. When I go to a city where, unlike here, most cars are -not- diesel, I find the silence completely eerie, like a ghost town.
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Feb 8, 2013 20:35
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They're noisy and they smell bad, or at least the smell is far more noticeable.
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Feb 8, 2013 20:39
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black snot is kind of gross, and probably not healthy, and the soot makes your helmet, riding gear and bike filthy. For some reason annual MOTs are completely incapable of pulling grossly polluting diesel passenger cars off the road.
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Feb 8, 2013 21:11
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New vans! FWD, 3.6l gas v6 or 3l diesel turbo i4 Good thing it's not a beauty contest. Will america accept a FWD workhorse? Ford Transit  RWD, 3.7 gas v6, 3.5 TTv6, or 3.2l turbo I5 Ford hasn't released the engine specs, but considering it's a RWD platform they'll probably match the F-150. The prospect of a 365hp, 420ft/lb, 20mpg motorhome gets me warm in the trousers.
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Feb 8, 2013 22:02
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drat, check out those guys hard at work!
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