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cletepurcel posted:I think he probably picked it up while he was in the pawn shop. Because he's natural po-lice.
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Feb 17, 2013 23:40
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I always figured that if you put a guy like him in the pawnshop unit, he'd end up going to great lengths to keep his mind occupied. You can pick up a lot of new tricks in thirteen years (and four months).
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Feb 18, 2013 02:15
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I also think he is a far, far better policeman than McNulty (part of the reason he reacts so strongly to McNulty's "how many people can do what we do?" speech in a later season, in my opinion). Part of that may be because he's older and actually came up in a police culture that wasn't completely hosed YET, but I think mostly it's because Freamon is a remarkable person - an intelligent, hardworking man who not only doesn't mind doing his research/keeping up on legal/procedural matters but actually enjoys it. Contrast McNulty's disgust when dealing with the paperwork for Rhonda and Phelan, and his struggles to understand it, while Freamon not only instantly understands it all but seems to have had the information in his mind already. He knew that they would need D's number, McNulty didn't even consider that he would have to do anything to get it. He seems to have thought filling out the paperwork itself would let them somehow pull the information from out of a register somewhere.
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Feb 18, 2013 02:21
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I think a key point in the show is that Stringer and Avon both have a partially correct view of the world. Stringer understood that the straight business moguls could make far more money without all the trouble of violence than he ever could in the world of drugs and that violence was a huge waste of resources and got law enforcement involved, but Avon understood both that the smart people in the straight world see Stringer as a mark to be fleeced and would use their greater knowledge and experience in that world to take advantage of him, and that there is a law of the jungle rule inherent to the street drug game where you couldn't just shoehorn it into some straight world model of how to do things with corporate meetings and Robert's Rules of Order, violence aggression and domination were an intrinsic part of it and you had to use and master those things if you were going to be in the game at all or else get eaten up by the Marlo's. Stringer's problem was that despite being very smart and capable he was just too naive, he needed someone to show him the ropes to keep from getting eaten alive by the Clay Davis's of the world instead of just assuming that his intelligence, street smarts and aggression would get him by. He would have been fine if he could have made a full transition to the straight world but keeping one foot in each world was never going to work for a whole variety of reasons. Stringer had plenty of intelligence and moxie to do great in the straight world, and would have if he'd been born into it. As it is he could probably have made a successful transition but was doomed to get eaten alive in his initial foray into that world. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 02:45
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I just stumbled across this thread and happen to be rewatching the show, what season/episode are we up to? e: vvvvvvvvv Cool thanks, I skimmed the OP and noticed that it said things would probably go at the rate of 2 eps per week, then saw it was from december and just figured it was out of date. Good to know. POLICE CAR AUCTION fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 03:08
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HelmetCheese posted:I just stumbled across this thread and happen to be rewatching the show, what season/episode are we up to? I just recently did a write-up for Season 1, Episode 4 and we're just waiting for escape artist to do a write-up for episode 5. That said, the entire series is open for discussion, there are no spoiler tags, and people are doing re-watches at their own pace and discussing episodes as and when they like.
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Feb 18, 2013 03:14
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Jerusalem posted:I also think he is a far, far better policeman than McNulty (part of the reason he reacts so strongly to McNulty's "how many people can do what we do?" speech in a later season, in my opinion). Part of that may be because he's older and actually came up in a police culture that wasn't completely hosed YET, but I think mostly it's because Freamon is a remarkable person - an intelligent, hardworking man who not only doesn't mind doing his research/keeping up on legal/procedural matters but actually enjoys it. Lester always struck me as one of those dudes who learns a lot of poo poo about his job in his spare time because he wants to, and not because he has to. Just so happens that he had a hell of a lot of free time to do just that. I'm sure there's a bit of commentary on the instant gratification generation there as well re: the paperwork thing. Zwabu posted:I think a key point in the show is that Stringer and Avon both have a partially correct view of the world. Stringer understood that the straight business moguls could make far more money without all the trouble of violence than he ever could in the world of drugs and that violence was a huge waste of resources and got law enforcement involved, but Avon understood both that the smart people in the straight world see Stringer as a mark to be fleeced and would use their greater knowledge and experience in that world to take advantage of him, and that there is a law of the jungle rule inherent to the street drug game where you couldn't just shoehorn it into some straight world model of how to do things with corporate meetings and Robert's Rules of Order, violence aggression and domination were an intrinsic part of it and you had to use and master those things if you were going to be in the game at all or else get eaten up by the Marlo's. In my mind, Avon is the one I see as being correct in this argument, in terms of what's best for both of them. They're corner kings NOW. They could try to become business moguls but, having gotten used to a lifestyle of being at the top, Stringer wanted to skip some steps in the business environment that he'd felt he'd already made--in Clay Davis' terms, he wanted to crawl and then run right away. If Stringer had any sense, he'd stay king with Avon rather than try to get ahead in a new environment and skipping a few steps until he hosed up. String figured that he'd done the hustle once--why would he have to do it again? Any other world, it'd make sense.
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Feb 18, 2013 04:42
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The rooftop scene between Avon and Stringer when they're reminiscing about the old days, knowing what's coming next 
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Feb 19, 2013 00:30
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:The rooftop scene between Avon and Stringer when they're reminiscing about the old days, knowing what's coming next That scene is so incredibly well-acted.
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Feb 19, 2013 00:42
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"What the gently caress we gonna do with a net, and a racket, WHEN WE AIN'T GOT NO YARD?!?" I always get the sense watching that that both of them have a slight suspicion that the other one is betraying them too but can't admit it. Stringer certainly seems a bit suspicious after Avon asks him what time his meeting is.
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Feb 19, 2013 00:43
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cletepurcel posted:"What the gently caress we gonna do with a net, and a racket, WHEN WE AIN'T GOT NO YARD?!?" "Us, motherfucker" *hug* My favorite part is: Stringer: ...you know I don't take my work too seriously. Avon: That's right, it's just business (It's just business being the last line he uttered to Bunny when selling him out) Stringer: *glances at Avon with a look of surprise and concern on his face that we've never seen Stringer have before*
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Feb 19, 2013 00:47
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Jerusalem posted:I think Stringer's problem was that he was smart enough to see the potential in branching out and going legit, but was "spoiled" by his upbringing in the drug trade. He's so used to being in a position where he can say,"I want this done by this time and in this way," and people will make sure it is loving done. If they don't, they're either dead meat or discarded with an endless number of replacements ready to jump in and do the job the other person couldn't do. In the legit world, he was dealing with people who said one thing and did another, deadlines and schedules that shifted easily, people always asking for more money without actually doing anything because they could provide "connections". That right there is exactly what kills me about Stringer's whole arc. Had he just been patient and relaxed a little, and had he not been convinced that the business world works exactly like the drug trade (where a ton of cash in a briefcase gets you into a lot of places), he could have avoided a ton of heartache and suffering, as well as not having been fleeced by Davis and driving himself and Avon further apart as a result. And that he goes for a street solution that would never work because of the scale involved ("poo poo, murder ain't no thing, but this here is some assassination poo poo!") once he is stuck knee deep in it, it just gets worse and worse for him. Granted, his treatment of Brother Mouzone would have gotten him killed anyways, but I digress...
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Feb 19, 2013 01:31
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The other thing that String ran into was that he was at a strata in his game where nobody would just blatantly rip him off the way Davis did. Between that and his naivete about how it worked- basically that people on the legit side didn't do each other that way because they didn't have to, he was a lamb to the slaughter there. He really should've gone to Levy first. The sense I always got from the final Avon/Stringer scene wasn't that they picked up that the other was selling them out. It was more a wistfulness because they thought they had the other one cornered and hated the necessity of it. The scene is beautifully wide open for interpretation on that, though.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:21
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I agree - I think it's left ambiguous whether or not they knew they were selling each other out. The important thing was that the world they'd come to know as friends and partners was as of that night effectively gone. They had both accomplished more than they ever dreamed, but each was too selfish or compromised to ever really enjoy it together.
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Feb 19, 2013 04:27
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Hey escape artist, I'm trying to hold back on watching too far ahead so stuff is fresh in my mind when I write about it, and I'm kinda jonesing for a fresh hit of Wire here, you know. No pressure but I may have to strip the copper out of your house. I'm a soldier. 
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Feb 19, 2013 11:17
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Unzip and Attack posted:I agree - I think it's left ambiguous whether or not they knew they were selling each other out. The important thing was that the world they'd come to know as friends and partners was as of that night effectively gone. They had both accomplished more than they ever dreamed, but each was too selfish or compromised to ever really enjoy it together. Now that I think of it though, Avon seemed surprised enough when Jimmy showed him Stringer's name on the warrant afterwards. I think Stringer might have been suspicious but Avon could not conceive of Stringer doing him like that (maybe having him killed but not snitching him out).
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Feb 19, 2013 12:29
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I really don't think either suspected the other of selling them out (not until they were told/shown, anyway), but during that (amazing) scene, both are aware that THEY have sold their best friend out and they're making one final effort at a good and happy memory of togetherness, not knowing what the other is up to.
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Feb 19, 2013 21:34
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Jerusalem posted:I really don't think either suspected the other of selling them out (not until they were told/shown, anyway), but during that (amazing) scene, both are aware that THEY have sold their best friend out and they're making one final effort at a good and happy memory of togetherness, not knowing what the other is up to. Yea this is how I always interpreted it. Its so great how they are both thinking "drat, I can't believe I'm standing here about to gently caress my best friend over, how did it get to this point?" without realizing that the other is thinking the exact same thing.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:04
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Jerusalem posted:I really don't think either suspected the other of selling them out (not until they were told/shown, anyway), but during that (amazing) scene, both are aware that THEY have sold their best friend out and they're making one final effort at a good and happy memory of togetherness, not knowing what the other is up to. This is how I always read it, too.
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Feb 20, 2013 04:15
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It shows how committed to their particular chosen way of doing things they were too. Stringer's betrayal is arguably the "lesser" one because the idea is to put Avon back in prison and leave Stringer to run things his way (working with East Side/Prop Joe, not warring with Marlo, not bringing down police attention on them etc), and presumably Avon would still be living like a king in prison and his sister would be getting a large cut of the profits. Avon's betrayal is sacrificing Stringer entirely, not just removing him from the game but from life itself. Stringer was going to essentially dethrone the "king" but let him maintain all the privilege and respect due to that station. Avon agreed to the murder of his best friend in order to maintain the muscle/connection he needed to go to war with Marlo.
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Feb 20, 2013 04:29
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Jerusalem posted:It shows how committed to their particular chosen way of doing things they were too. Stringer's betrayal is arguably the "lesser" one because the idea is to put Avon back in prison and leave Stringer to run things his way (working with East Side/Prop Joe, not warring with Marlo, not bringing down police attention on them etc), and presumably Avon would still be living like a king in prison and his sister would be getting a large cut of the profits. I hadn't really considered that aspect- String's betrayal was rather humane in the sense that he probably saved Avon's life. Stringer always was the voice of caution, the one who found a way to bring the level of hostilities down. Left to his own devices, Avon probably would've kept picking fights until major portions of the city's underworld united to end him. Another thing that just occurred to me- all the security measures we saw in S1 were probably Stringer's scheming. Avon handled the tactical situations and the war strategy, but you have to figure that Stringer was the one who came up with the beepers, the payphone code, and so on.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:38
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That seems like the wrong way to look at how they screwed each other to me. They're playing different kinds of games at that point. Stringer's game is quiet and diplomatic, nobody shoots each other and he makes friends with the other big name dealers in the city and they all share profits. Avon's game is violent as hell, and people shoot each other for corners and street rep. Generally when you lose in Stringer's game you go to jail for selling drugs, maybe for a long time but you probably won't get shot. In Avon's game, your chances of ending up dead are a lot higher, you get shot by some other guy who wants to be the new big name on the streets. Stringer hosed up playing Avon's game of violence and blood feuds with Omar and Brother Mouzone and all that, and he ended up dead because of it. I don't think Avon would have played Mouzone like Stringer did. Avon hosed up playing Stringer's game and ended up in jail instead of dead, because he refused to keep it quiet and stop killing people over dumb poo poo like who owns what corner and who's calling who a cocksucker.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:56
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Stringer couldn't have won because he never learns the lesson that other people have plans too. He keeps thinking that other people are willing to play on his terms and so he's always getting burned when they don't. His plan with Avon was to put him back in for like a year or two, and then when he gets back out again Avon will see how effective Stringer's plans are. That's basically the same plan he had for dealing with Brother Mouzzone in season 2 and then Marlo in season 3.
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Feb 20, 2013 06:04
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Randomly Specific posted:I hadn't really considered that aspect- String's betrayal was rather humane in the sense that he probably saved Avon's life. Stringer always was the voice of caution, the one who found a way to bring the level of hostilities down. Left to his own devices, Avon probably would've kept picking fights until major portions of the city's underworld united to end him. Actually in the episode that escape artist is doing a write-up for RIGHT NOW (  ), we get to see that Avon is extremely paranoid about security. He has all the phone lines removed from his girlfriend's house because she gets ONE hang-up phone-call (D got the same from Lester and it never even occurs to him that it could be somebody testing/confirming D's number), refuses to use a payphone that he used once already that week, and bitches out Wee-Bey when he suggests that Avon is going a little overboard.When he's left alone in his office ahead of the money run, he makes sure the door is locked and the office is empty and is careful to cover the lock while entering the combination, keeping an eye on the strip club's security cameras the whole time. He also has two men looking out for him as he makes the 2-3 foot journey from the club's alleyway exit to his waiting car.
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Feb 20, 2013 06:19
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In retrospect, I wonder if Stringer had any real option to maintain the Prop Joe deal other than double-crossing Mouzone. It was pretty clear that Avon would not accept the deal no matter what, and they needed the deal. I think that's part of the tragedy of that dynamic, that neither of them were ultimately "right" (although Avon correctly interpreted Marlo as a threat).
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Feb 20, 2013 06:21
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ChairMaster posted:Stringer's game is quiet and diplomatic, nobody shoots each other and he makes friends with the other big name dealers in the city and they all share profits. Stringer indicated that he was willing to have a State Senator murdered because he let himself get fleeced. As cautious as Stringer seems to be compared to Avon, he's still more than happy to use murder at the drop of a hat. I doubt Avon would have ever considered killing someone like Clay Davis, even if he had cause.
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Feb 20, 2013 07:32
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"Basically you need a Day-of-the-Jackal type motherfucker to do some poo poo like that, not some rumble tumble nigga like Slim."
grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 08:54
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cletepurcel posted:In retrospect, I wonder if Stringer had any real option to maintain the Prop Joe deal other than double-crossing Mouzone. It was pretty clear that Avon would not accept the deal no matter what, and they needed the deal. I think that's part of the tragedy of that dynamic, that neither of them were ultimately "right" (although Avon correctly interpreted Marlo as a threat). He could have lied and said them eastside boys straight up poo poo a brick when they heard you came into town. We took the opportunity to hire them and since they work well together, they got those 2 towers. Mouzone would then be protecting the projects from outside threats that aren't Avon/Joe's people. But then there wouldn't be a story, no conflict, no revenge.
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Feb 20, 2013 16:53
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I love the "You need a Day of the Jackal motherfucker" quote. . . It made me watch Day of the Jackal -- fantastic movie, you should all see it. 3spades posted:He could have lied and said them eastside boys straight up poo poo a brick when they heard you came into town. We took the opportunity to hire them and since they work well together, they got those 2 towers. Mouzone would then be protecting the projects from outside threats that aren't Avon/Joe's people. But then there wouldn't be a story, no conflict, no revenge. Mouzone already knew what was up. He, in effect, had more power than Stringer at that point. He was speaking directly with Avon, and Avon informed him of what was going on. Mouzone could've gone back to Avon (if Stringer lied to him), and then found out Stringer was lying to them (Avon and Mouzone) the whole time... But that wouldn't have been as exciting as what really happened.
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Feb 20, 2013 18:32
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This particular discussions reminds me how much I love the look on Slim's face when he talks to Avon about avenging Stringer's death and then Avon explains that he died "over some other poo poo". It's pretty close to Wee-Bey's famous .gif's reaction
Trap Star fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 19:22
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Jerusalem posted:Actually in the episode that escape artist is doing a write-up for RIGHT NOW ( Yeah, that's paranoia (healthy paranoia in his situation), but I'm referring to the structure they had in place on the streets with the beeper code and all. That strikes me as something that Stringer would've put together. Unzip and Attack posted:Stringer indicated that he was willing to have a State Senator murdered because he let himself get fleeced. As cautious as Stringer seems to be compared to Avon, he's still more than happy to use murder at the drop of a hat. I doubt Avon would have ever considered killing someone like Clay Davis, even if he had cause. The Clay Davis thing wasn't something that Stringer would've ordinarily done, I think. He was pissed off, humiliated, and he snapped. Like I said, Stringer was at a level in the drug game where nobody would've so casually and boldly ripped him off and it put him seriously off his game.
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Feb 20, 2013 20:31
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That's one thing I've have liked to see; the rise of Avon and Stringer. My one issue with the show is that Stringer seems so much smarter then Avon for the most part. We don't have much time to see how Avon was running things because Avon is gone and jailed 1st season. Avon never impressed me because it looked like string was running the show. Apart from a few orders what exactly was Avon doing? Now that's where the series just did not have time to cover that I'll bet. Still imagine how great a wire prequel would be showing the rise of Avon, and String, and maybe a young Freamon, and Daniels, or even Rawls.
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Feb 20, 2013 21:20
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Avon was the top dog, the motivator and the one that people believed in and fought for. Stringer may have been something of a better plotter (with the previous mentioned limitations in accounting for other people's counterscheming) but he wasn't really the guy people believed in. Avon was also the one who was willing to personally get bloody and do business, which wasn't at all Stringer's thing.
Randomly Specific fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 21:37
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DropsySufferer posted:That's one thing I've have liked to see; the rise of Avon and Stringer. My one issue with the show is that Stringer seems so much smarter then Avon for the most part. We don't have much time to see how Avon was running things because Avon is gone and jailed 1st season. Avon never impressed me because it looked like string was running the show. Apart from a few orders what exactly was Avon doing? Now that's where the series just did not have time to cover that I'll bet. Still imagine how great a wire prequel would be showing the rise of Avon, and String, and maybe a young Freamon, and Daniels, or even Rawls. Wee-Bey kills someone in every episode 
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Feb 21, 2013 22:56
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DarkCrawler posted:Wee-Bey kills someone in every episode This puts me in the mind of a sitcom. Stringer, Avon, and Weebay, the core of a newbie drug gang. Weebay kills people so often that they're constantly losing track. Three seasons in, Avon's brain-dead nephew is introduced as a cast regular who always manages to klutz up their brilliant schemes.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:11
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DropsySufferer posted:That's one thing I've have liked to see; the rise of Avon and Stringer. Just pretend Paid In Full happened in Baltimore.
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Feb 22, 2013 00:00
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Randomly Specific posted:Three seasons in, Avon's brain-dead nephew is introduced as a cast regular who always manages to klutz up their brilliant schemes. Avon's already got a brain-dead brother
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Feb 22, 2013 23:56
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Randomly Specific posted:This puts me in the mind of a sitcom. Stringer, Avon, and Weebay, the core of a newbie drug gang. Weebay kills people so often that they're constantly losing track. Three seasons in, Avon's brain-dead nephew is introduced as a cast regular who always manages to klutz up their brilliant schemes. I want a spin-off where it is retconned that Omar survived his shooting, and him and McNulty become private detectives!
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Feb 23, 2013 00:08
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Oh man. Totally forgot about this line by Bernard in 03x12. "I can't wait to go to jail..."
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Feb 23, 2013 02:55
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Parachute Underwear posted:Oh man. Totally forgot about this line by Bernard in 03x12. "Wha'd you say?! What the gently caress did you say Bernard!!?" My Wire rewatch buddy has been sick for 2 weeks and I...I..just need... Yo escape artist lemme hold  till Friday
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Feb 23, 2013 04:27
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