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Magicbacon posted:What's wrong with the term idiot ball? It seems like a perfectly descriptive term that got across what I was trying to say: Sephiroth acted in a profoundly stupid manner to enable the plot to move in the desired direction. But he did not. It was pointed out that its rather realistic.
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May 17, 2013 19:28
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MonsterEnvy posted:But he did not. It was pointed out that its rather realistic. It's kind of hard to call anything realistic when we're talking about such a bizarre situation.
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May 17, 2013 19:44
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I hope you were angrily yelling at the screen during Saving Private Ryan how unrealistic it was for a soldier to slowly walk back and pick up his arm during a chaotic firefight. The point is, a warrior keeping a death grip (Wikipedia definition: "A death grip is an extremely tight grip, such as that exerted by a person in a panic for fear for their life.") on his only weapon when he's seriously injured, surprised, and being attacked, while also suffering a mental breakdown and carrying the HEAD he just CUT OFF HIS MOTHER is not that weird.
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May 17, 2013 19:52
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I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but one of my favorite details is Cloud's motion sickness. One of the revelatory flashes shows Zack comforting him about it in the truck, and I'm not sure if it comes up early enough to be foreshadowing but Cloud has motion sickness later on, which clashes with his Nibelheim story. Also, way back when the thread was young I was gushing over this animation:  "I will always be your mother" are the most incredible last words she could have given him. Sephiroth pushes his Jenova mommy issues onto Cloud, but right here Cloud has something to hold on to. I had the clone reveal spoiled for me, but not the truth we just got. I was a teenager, so I kept clinging to the hope that he was really who he thought he was even though I "knew" he wasn't. The game really made me happy.
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May 17, 2013 19:55
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We get "Cloud..?" with a question mark - she doesn't recognise him, or he's not wearing the uniform she expected Also "Is that so?" - could be a response to "Mom I flunked SOLDIER entry tests" "I was worried sick about how you were doing" suggests he didn't write - perhaps from shame?
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May 17, 2013 20:01
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Schwartzcough posted:he's seriously injured How do you know he was still injured? Sephiroth had a mastered restore materia! 
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May 17, 2013 20:03
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Elentor posted:
I never finished it, and some of the where we are now type stuff was vaguely spoiled for me, but apparently was spoiled incorrectly. I was under the impression that Cloud was Zack all along! or something like that.
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May 17, 2013 20:09
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I played the game but I barely remember this part of it for some reason. I think maybe I was so confused that I assumed this wasn't the real version of what had happened in Nibelheim either, so I stayed confused for the rest of the game and had a fairly negative impression of it overall.
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May 17, 2013 20:17
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Idiot Ball, the other useless Materia 
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May 17, 2013 20:24
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L5 Death posted:Idiot Ball, the other useless Materia It gives you every negative status effect in the game.
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May 17, 2013 20:55
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Schwartzcough posted:I hope you were angrily yelling at the screen during Saving Private Ryan how unrealistic it was for a soldier to slowly walk back and pick up his arm during a chaotic firefight. Honestly, I'm kinda surprised Cloud didn't flat-out sever Sephiroth's spinal cord. Even if Sephy did turn around just before in this version of it, the Buster Sword's still probably wider than he is (or, at least wide enough that it'd be rather hard to miss the spine if you got anything more than a glancing stab with it, which didn't seem to happen here). And that's not even getting into any ruptured arteries, slashed organs/muscles, and so on. In other words, it's probably a drat near miracle that he was even able to still run Cloud through when he chased after Sephiroth. Hell, that might in part explain Cloud lifting him up by the blade, too; Sephiroth was in both mental and physical shock from getting so grievously wounded.
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May 17, 2013 20:57
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simplefish posted:
And the big one: "I will always be your mother" I love you even though you failed.
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May 17, 2013 21:04
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FeyerbrandX posted:And the big one: "I will always be your mother" I love you even though you failed. Yea, I get that vibe too.
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May 17, 2013 21:06
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Looking at all the things that have been pointed out, it's pretty cool how there's a lot of subtle references to the latest update in the game, things you'd never catch the first time.  It's like a big jigsaw puzzle!FeyerbrandX posted:And the big one: "I will always be your mother" I love you even though you failed. Looking at it now, that makes a lot of sense.
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May 17, 2013 21:13
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The water is already pretty muddy right now about as to what exactly was behind Sephiroth's motivation to mess with Cloud and the discussion a few pages back regarding how Sephiroth/Jenova released Cloud from Shinra while he was captured got me thinking, about something someone else said even more pages back about Jenova possibly recognising Cloud while it's in the tank. It left me asking a boatload of questions: Why does everything happen when it does? Why do Cloud and Sephiroth's re-emergence happen so close together? Why wasn't Sephiroth putting his plan into motion earlier if he was capable of doing so without Cloud? What if he started acting later than he does? What if Cloud didn't look into the tank? I feel like if we can answer these questions in a satisfactory way you'll be able to understand whether Cloud was important to Sephiroth's plans or not.
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May 17, 2013 21:43
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Well, looking back on that note in the piano at Nibelheim, we know the clones were going nutty and wanting to run headfirst back into Jenova before Cloud ever got there. But they didn't actually seem to get moving until Cloud found Jenova Prime and it escaped from the tank.
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May 17, 2013 22:03
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My personal theory is that, like at the Northern Crater earlier in the game, all of the "clones" except Cloud (and the number "1" tattoo clone, but I'm not really sure how he fits in) are completely loving useless at everything. Cloud, like the other "clones," was being drawn toward Jenova's body in accord with the "reunion" thing, and that's why he ends up at Midgar specifically, and it helps draw him up to the 67th floor of the Shinra building, right where Sephiroth/Jenova wants him. I think that Cloud broke out of the cell, killed the guard, opened Jenova's tank, and went back into the cell and forgot about it all, all under the influence of the Jenova cell mind-connection, and that this was Sephiroth/Jenova's plan all along. So the reason that Sephiroth/Jenova only gets their plan going when Cloud shows up is because they didn't have any way to put the plan in motion without Cloud's help. I mean, those robed idiots could never have broken into Shinra headquarters.
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May 17, 2013 22:26
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My question is: Why build a mako reactor on a dumbass mountain that everyone seems to die on?
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May 17, 2013 22:32
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DontMockMySmock posted:My personal theory is that, like at the Northern Crater earlier in the game, all of the "clones" except Cloud (and the number "1" tattoo clone, but I'm not really sure how he fits in) are completely loving useless at everything. Cloud, like the other "clones," was being drawn toward Jenova's body in accord with the "reunion" thing, and that's why he ends up at Midgar specifically, and it helps draw him up to the 67th floor of the Shinra building, right where Sephiroth/Jenova wants him. I think that Cloud broke out of the cell, killed the guard, opened Jenova's tank, and went back into the cell and forgot about it all, all under the influence of the Jenova cell mind-connection, and that this was Sephiroth/Jenova's plan all along. Without Tifa knowing?
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May 17, 2013 22:33
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MSPaintClock posted:My question is: Why build a mako reactor on a dumbass mountain that everyone seems to die on? Obviously the death mountain was really cheap because nobody wanted to live there. Sure 2/3 of the staff falls to their deaths, but that just means wages don't rise to quick.
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May 17, 2013 22:36
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MSPaintClock posted:My question is: Why build a mako reactor on a dumbass mountain that everyone seems to die on? The same people who make Resident Evil bases. Or the less sarcastic way, the type of person who knows the best place to hide a place full of bioweapons is a naturally inhospitable place full of bad assed dragons. No need for guards who may gossip, just huge assed dragons.
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May 17, 2013 22:36
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MSPaintClock posted:My question is: Why build a mako reactor on a dumbass mountain that everyone seems to die on? Natural resource concentration. The Mako must've been good there.
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May 17, 2013 22:44
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Also remember that monsters are created by Mako poisoning. And Mako drains places up. That mountain must have been a horrible and unsafe place before, yes, but nothing compared to the Lovecraftian horror it became after the reactors were installed. I mean, the mountain textures literally look like they were drawn by H.R. Giger.MSPaintClock posted:My question is: Why build a mako reactor on a dumbass mountain that everyone seems to die on? And yes, the reason they built it up there is natural Mako concentration. This is even show in-game as we pass by the materia caves and Sephiroth and Tifa stop by at a natural Mako fountain near the reactor.    
Elentor fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 22:53
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FeyerbrandX posted:And the big one: "I will always be your mother" I love you even though you failed. I still see this as a ray of hope for him about Jenova not being his mother, but obviously both are intended.
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May 18, 2013 00:22
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Jackie D posted:Without Tifa knowing? She's a heavy sleeper, I guess?
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May 18, 2013 01:21
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FeyerbrandX posted:And the big one: "I will always be your mother" I love you even though you failed. This I like. Not something you'd notice during your first play through, but it does make sense.
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May 18, 2013 03:36
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DontMockMySmock posted:My personal theory is that, like at the Northern Crater earlier in the game, all of the "clones" except Cloud (and the number "1" tattoo clone, but I'm not really sure how he fits in) are completely loving useless at everything. Cloud, like the other "clones," was being drawn toward Jenova's body in accord with the "reunion" thing, and that's why he ends up at Midgar specifically, and it helps draw him up to the 67th floor of the Shinra building, right where Sephiroth/Jenova wants him. I think that Cloud broke out of the cell, killed the guard, opened Jenova's tank, and went back into the cell and forgot about it all, all under the influence of the Jenova cell mind-connection, and that this was Sephiroth/Jenova's plan all along.
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May 18, 2013 04:52
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Elentor posted:I'd like to ask you guys to tone down EU talk a bit. The EU answers a lot of questions posted in this thread which I want to remain open for a reason. Not that this question was directed people who have played the game, but I appreciate the detail about what equipment can be stolen from which enemies. I'm still on Disk 1 for my play-through and I've ton of gil from not buying equipment. I am far richer at this point than I should be if I was going in blind. Thank you. Keep it up. CheeseThief posted:The water is already pretty muddy right now about as to what exactly was behind Sephiroth's motivation to mess with Cloud and the discussion a few pages back regarding how Sephiroth/Jenova released Cloud from Shinra while he was captured got me thinking, about something someone else said even more pages back about Jenova possibly recognising Cloud while it's in the tank. Analyze the plot points presented so far regarding the characters involved, especially what they are doing in how they are doing it. I'm not sure if openly stringing it together counts as a spoiler or if Elentor has plans regarding those questions. pigglesthepup fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 05:31
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Elentor posted:While we're at it - how many more of you guys still following the thread have never played the game? I saw some throughout the past pages, and while the input of past players is important, I really, really enjoy reading the feedback from people who never played it before since they come far and few. I've played the crap out of FF6, and finished FFX a few times, but I've never made it through FF7. Tried it twice; the first time like KataraniSword I made it to Golden Saucer before giving up in disgust at the minigames, and the second time I shut off the console after getting lost on the mountain at the start of Disc 2 and packed the game away. I remember thinking to myself how trivial and silly things were becoming, and it felt like shoehorned filler material at best. "My friend and potential last hope of the planet was just horribly murdered... time to go snowboarding!" was totally incongruous. The fact that the story is deliberately disjointed, unfocused, and hard to follow unless you understand exactly what's going on didn't exactly help things. The combat is excellent when you aren't forced into grinding through high encounter rates, but the graphics have not aged well at all compared to sprite-based games of the era and the translation remains an abominable mess. I honestly could not see the appeal in the game. That said, with the last reveal the story is finally starting to almost make some sense now. To be honest, if I'd played it again on my own I can see I would have given up again in head-scratching frustration at several more places. I don't think I'm ever going to love this game the way a lot of people seem to. But thanks, Elentor, for sticking with the LP and giving people like me a chance to understand what the fuss about this game is all about.
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May 18, 2013 06:52
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I'm pretty sure you never have to play a single minigame in Gold Saucer to advance the plot excluding the Battle Arena once but you don't even have to win that.
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May 18, 2013 07:22
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Zarfol posted:So, I have never played FF7 (maybe I should try it after the LP is over), but why does everyone think that Sephiroth is such a good villan based on the LP so far? I mean, it looks like now that Cloud is back, we'll just go find Sephiroth, beat the hell out of him, and then with the power of ~love~ or something like that Meteor will blow up and we'll have a happy ending. Personally, I find Sephiroth to be a good villain because of how he's executed. He's not a particularly deep villain at all, but he's presented perfectly in the game. As someone pointed out earlier, you rarely see Sephiroth (or more specifically, rarely see Jenova acting as Sephiroth). He's presented as more of a monster in a horror movie than a villain. He has powers you can't understand and can manage feats you didn't think were possible. Basically, for most of Disc 1 he's presented as enigmatic, crazy, and terrifyingly powerful. They executed that perfectly. Of course, I'm also a massive fan of irony. This crazy, unstoppable, terrifying monster? Yeah, most of the things he does in the game are motivated by his rage and humiliation after being killed by a low level grunt. He may be a super soldier with a god complex, but one of his major motivations is petty revenge. Basically, he's a pretty good rear end in a top hat. Not really sympathetic in any way. Sometimes, you just want your villains to be massive cockbites without a particularly tragic past. EDIT: To give an idea of what I mean by "perfect presentation" (I of course know that it's actually not perfect, but it's pretty good), the first time you "encounter" Sephiroth you don't see him. You just see the aftermath of him laying waste to the Shinra complex. This is particularly striking because you probably imagined that Shinra was the big bad of the game, and then some rear end in a top hat came in and killed the final boss. The bloody trails and horror music, as well as the creepy atmosphere, evoke a perfect image of a monster. And of course, this is all accomplished without actually seeing the man himself. Then the Kalm cutscene happens, and oh my god he's level 50 and can't take damage. Then the next "encounter" has you run into a super hard miniboss that most people probably can't beat their first time through the game. You take the back door and cross the marsh with a chocobo, and what greets you? Oh, Sephiroth skewered that monster on a tree. The next time you see him is the first time you actually see his present form face to face. He just casually phases through the floor and flies away. Since when can people phase through solid matter and fly? It isn't played up in any other than being rolled into the "oh poo poo it's Sephiroth" moment, but the dude just completely hosed physics. He's doing things which don't even occur to you as being rules that can be broken. I guess I could go on, but I think that's enough examples of the craft I see. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 08:36 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 08:16
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FillInTheBlank posted:I'm pretty sure you never have to play a single minigame in Gold Saucer to advance the plot excluding the Battle Arena once but you don't even have to win that. There's also the chocobo race. However, note that I said "mandatory and optional". I get so ticked off by motorcycle and CPR and let's march and do rifle twirls and pretty much the entire stretch from the Shinra Building to Junon that even getting NEAR Fort Condor or the Gold Saucer triggers some sort of illogical hyper-rage gland inside me and I want to punch faces, despite those being (for the most part) 100% optional.
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May 18, 2013 08:27
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There's also the bit about Sephiroth being one of the most personal villains in the franchise up until that point. Before 7, the closest we got with the main villain was Golbez in IV, for reasons that'd be massively spoileriffic to that game. With all of them, even Kefka, there invariably was an eventual sense that they were hiding high and far away from the player until the plot demanded it. With Sephiroth, there's that constant sense that he's always closer than you think, despite his few actual appearances. He knows Cloud better than Cloud knows himself, and exploits that connection/knowledge to absolutely and utterly break him. The events of much of the main plot? He did all of that just so he could gently caress with the one guy who had slighted him the most, even if it probably set his plans back a few years. It really does get quite a bit of a stalkerish undertone in that sort of light. Instead of the hammy, over-the-top villains of yore, we have a ruthlessly cold and brutal man that just seemed to be off even when he was ostensibly a hero. 'Course, years of fanfics have turned him into some sort of Freudian tragedy in the making that secretly wants to be loved deep down inside, but that's not for here.
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May 18, 2013 08:40
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Scalding Coffee posted:Red said the guard died from inhuman methods. Of course, we don't necessarily see what our party members are doing. The guard died from inhuman wounds, and Red XIII isn't a human... 
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May 18, 2013 08:50
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I started this LP a few days ago, thinking it was finished already. I played FFVII when I was probably about 12, and apparently a ton of this stuff went over my head. Now I need to know what happens. Oh god, what have I done to myself.
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May 18, 2013 11:47
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I was introduced to FF7 via Kingdom Hearts, and decided to go back and play it. I had a blast with it, and beat it! I hate to say it, but I was one of those people who didn't understand the story. I at least managed to get that Cloud wasn't just some emo guy, but a lot of things covered in this update and others, well, I didn't get them at all. Reading this LP, with people in the thread to explain it, and also just being older has clarified a lot of things.
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May 18, 2013 12:35
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KataraniSword posted:I get so ticked off by motorcycle Motorcycle is great, I got a perfect game once.
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May 18, 2013 12:54
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Elentor posted:Thank you for all the feedback, guys. I appreciate it. Forgive the necro, but there's a good reason for this. FFVII is no longer solely a game, but a franchise. If you feel less cynical, a concept or an archetype. It has become far greater than its seed point due to popularity and impact on the genre, as well as Square(Enix) pimping it out for so long. It's to the point where you don't even need to play the game to have an opinion about it; it's that that omnipresent. Gonna sound like an obsessive for bringing it up again, but it fills a similar niche in the JRPG world as its semi-contemporary Eva does to anime. Really big, surprisingly good, kind of twisted, and loaded with mass market metacrap.
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May 18, 2013 12:57
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This thread is the first place I've ever heard someone criticize the minigames of all things. I've always seen them viewed in a positive light, even things like the CPR game.
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May 18, 2013 14:14
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I didn't mind the minigames, especially those which if gone, would otherwise just be cutscenes. I'd never touch them in the golden saucer, none of them were worth playing after the compulsory time, but they added a bit of flavour to gameplay and broke up the "fight random encounters while moving from point A to point B" a bit.
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May 18, 2013 14:49
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