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So what I am hearing Brad tell me is "do not pledge, wait until the game is out so you can tell what type of game it's supposed to be in anything but incredibly vague terms".
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Jun 4, 2013 21:35
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"We don't know exactly what kind of game we're making or we're not telling you. Give us money, please." This has to be one of the most vague Kickstarters I've seen.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:38
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I would say that it wouldn't work as a pitch, but thus far it's worked at as a pitch to the tune of close to $800,000, so what do I know?
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Jun 4, 2013 21:47
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In a weird way, I think it's kind of smart not to over promise on stretch goals or reward tiers for a game that is in the earliest stages of development. Doublefine obviously has a fanbase that is willing to say "hey you want a game fine here's 20 bucks" on basically nothing. They certainly have hooked me for life and even their worst game, the Cave, was at least trying something different enough for me to not feel bad for a second buying it (most of the bad parts of it can be traced back to Deathspank's Ron Gilbert anyway). So maybe it's not such a bad prospect to not be beholden to people who need to have certain demands met before they'd even think of flinging 20 dollars their way. Personally, I haven't backed a lot of Kickstarters lately because they've felt like such a twisted complex of reward tiers that they actually feel like more of a risky bet to me. I guess I like the "here's my company, here's my idea" approach rather than what feels to me like trying to game the Kickstarter system.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:53
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I don't think they're expecting this to be as huge a success as DFA. This whole thing seems to be way more in line with the intended spirit of Kickstarter instead of deliberately aiming low and having 20 new stretch goals ready when they expectedly reach their goal within the first 24 hours. They're probably being very cautious here because they don't want to aim too high and take every new DF Kickstarter as a given success or inadvertently turn every game into a huge project - this definitely is not the last one they will do, and in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were working towards building their entire future business model around Kickstarter. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 22:02
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CottonWolf posted:I'd go as far as to say that the whole 'no stretch goals' thing is a bad idea. What's worse is that I'm sympathetic to the reasoning behind it. If I'm funding a game because I like the concept, I don't want to tie the hands of the creators, but I have a horrible feeling that without tangible goals they'll just end up getting less money overall. I think that's commendable - more often than not, imo, particular stretch goals are rallying hooks to get the audience excited that aren't representative of the actual costs - but it'll almost certainly result in a lower final tally. But good on them. However, the ideas they've presented are far too vague to get me to even consider backing them.
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Jun 4, 2013 22:09
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Rinkles posted:However, the ideas they've presented are far too vague to get me to even consider backing them. While this one has "We're gonna make a game that's like these three very different tactical games! With some dynastic stuff!" So I am fairly certain they are going to have a grid, and... that's... about it?
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Jun 4, 2013 22:21
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Zereth posted:It's about as vauge as I remember the Double Fine Adventure kickstarter being, except that had "We are going to make an Adventure Game! You know what those are, right? And look at this name! Remember those cool Adventure Games he made in the past?" There was a track record. I agree, but a) I didn't pledge to that KS either and b) they had Tim Schafer and DF's portfolio of vaguely adventure-like games backing them up. Every attempt of DF's at a new genre has ended in lukewarm results, imo (haven't played Trenched). Always have a bunch of cool ideas and visuals, but the game feels like the end product of a brainstorming session rather than a polished and iterated design. Rinkles fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 22:28
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Infinitum posted:Omni Kickstarter has launched Already 355k out of 150k requested. 
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Jun 4, 2013 22:50
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Al! posted:They certainly have hooked me for life and even their worst game, the Cave, was at least trying something different enough for me to not feel bad for a second buying it (most of the bad parts of it can be traced back to Deathspank's Ron Gilbert anyway). Their Kickstarter looks to be doing exactly what they intended. It funded, and now their team has work, and they can make the game. I'd say they planned it perfectly. EDIT: This is probably what Kickstarters for non-major projects will start to look like, from studios surviving that way. "Hey you guys that funded us last time, here's our next game, it's still early of course, but you know we're good - go!". It'll work until said studio makes at turd, basically, and means a ton less money wasted on the production of the promotional drive. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 22:51
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My issue with things like OR, ARAIG, OMNI, all these sort of peripherals is "How much is this going to cost me, and how much is it going to enhance my gameplay?" At £299 for a DIY Omni, I'm paying a sizable sum for a device which I will most likely look at, wonder if I can be bothered to use it, shrug and pick up a controller and play normally. The OR apparently has resolution issues, although whether thats resolved or not will make or break it for the consumer edition. ARAIG, well, my issue is either its just going to shake a bit (in which case why bother?) or its going to shake a lot (in which case I'll feel like I'm getting a massage from a Parkinson's masseuse), either case of which I wouldn't really enjoy. Also, that thing looks uncomfortable as gently caress to wear on the couch while playing games.
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Jun 4, 2013 22:54
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I'm sympathetic to not wanting to have stretch goals to an extent but you really do need a clear and apparent core idea to pull that off. If there was clear concept of what gameplay was in an open ended way then I would be much more comfortable with it. Right now it is pretty much: Homer: Pfft. Burns never gives money to anybody. Just last week, I asked him for fifteen hundred dollars. Marge: For what? Homer: Oh, I've got to get the third degree from you, too?
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Jun 4, 2013 23:00
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To be somewhat fair, for me at least, there is literally no way to execute on the concept they've outlined that I wouldn't love. As long as the creators are even marginally competent, I'll get one of my favorite games of all time. Given Double Fine's track record, I think $50 is a fair bet on them being competent in exchange for early access.
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Jun 4, 2013 23:34
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It's remarkably easy to gently caress up a complex strategy game. Even Firaxis doesn't succeed every time.
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Jun 4, 2013 23:52
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Those of you who love stylish, grimdark miniatures will probably be interested in this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy They say they were funded in thirty seconds.
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Jun 5, 2013 00:16
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Megazver posted:It's remarkably easy to gently caress up a complex strategy game. Even Firaxis doesn't succeed every time. Absolutely, but the things that would ruin it are not (from a remotely competent team) generally things you can spot in the kickstarter phase. Before they have made a game. I mean, totally reasonable for people to withhold their money for any or no reason, but it's not really clear to me what sort of detail would be important here that hasn't been presented. As has previously been mentioned, gameplay videos really only strike me as an important thing when we're talking about people who have no demonstrated ability. Established studio like Double Fine or Obsidian? Concept seems sufficient to me, at this point. Unless people are just pretending Kickstarter is a glorified preorder system? Which I guess I can kind of understand, but is vaguely depressing and I can't imagine why someone would bother touching the place if so.
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Jun 5, 2013 00:21
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Irony.or.Death posted:Absolutely, but the things that would ruin it are not (from a remotely competent team) generally things you can spot in the kickstarter phase. Before they have made a game. I think the problem is that when Obsidian wants to make an RPG, or DF wants to make an adventure game, we can look back on their past works and have a frame of reference as far as what to expect. So when DF says they want to make a tactical strategy game I look back on their past games and wonder how they apply to this project. And when I do look back at DF's games I see that they're funny, quirky and fun games but overall the biggest thing that sticks out to me is that they all lack the depth that is usually associated with this genre. So I guess my point is that even though DF is an established studio, and I'm confident they can put out a game that has a lot of charm, I'm very much doubting that they will deliver a game that stands up to others in its genre.
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Jun 5, 2013 00:31
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I think Doublefine are really interested in having the backers see the game being made from the beginning (in real time). Which would be hard if they had already made part of it when they put it on Kickstarter. And if Broken Age is anything to go by, seeing the game being made is incredibly rewarding. (I realize it's been mentioned that the videos won't be as in-depth this time, but I'm still pretty optimistic.)
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Jun 5, 2013 01:13
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Axegrinder posted:Those of you who love stylish, grimdark miniatures will probably be interested in this: We've been discussing it in the trad games crowdfunding thread and it looks loving awful, proving once again minis nerds will throw money around for no reason at all. Even ignoring how dumb the minis look, their master mold process (using a 3D printed mini to create the master mold) makes the already absurd cost (roughly $20 for one 28mm miniature) even harder to justify. Also this, which is hilariously dumb and kinda  http://i.imgur.com/NRWOvr7.png
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Jun 5, 2013 01:25
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I'v got a Raging Hero all right.
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Jun 5, 2013 01:39
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Infinitum posted:Omni Kickstarter has launched While this looks incredibly silly to the point of getting into that 90s phase of dorky VR setups, and the price of getting this as well as a Rift going is going to be immense (at least upwards of $500), this could end up being a big deal. Considering the OR is apparently realistic enough to confuse the hell out of your body, I'm certainly interested in trying both it and the Omni at the same time.
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Jun 5, 2013 01:40
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miscellaneous14 posted:Considering the OR is apparently realistic enough to confuse the hell out of your body, You guys, I think virtual reality might be really cool.
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Jun 5, 2013 01:46
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Did anyone end up playing Dominique Pamplemousse? Apparently it was released 2 months ago, but I didn't back it so I only found out now. I remember a bunch of people were discussing it last year, and I thought it looked like a nice little quirky game.
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Jun 5, 2013 02:17
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:You guys, I think virtual reality might be really cool. Jamie Hyneman seems to think so.
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Jun 5, 2013 02:19
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Al! posted:In a weird way, I think it's kind of smart not to over promise on stretch goals or reward tiers for a game that is in the earliest stages of development. Doublefine obviously has a fanbase that is willing to say "hey you want a game fine here's 20 bucks" on basically nothing. They certainly have hooked me for life and even their worst game, the Cave, was at least trying something different enough for me to not feel bad for a second buying it (most of the bad parts of it can be traced back to Deathspank's Ron Gilbert anyway). So maybe it's not such a bad prospect to not be beholden to people who need to have certain demands met before they'd even think of flinging 20 dollars their way. Personally, I haven't backed a lot of Kickstarters lately because they've felt like such a twisted complex of reward tiers that they actually feel like more of a risky bet to me. I guess I like the "here's my company, here's my idea" approach rather than what feels to me like trying to game the Kickstarter system. Yeah pretty much this. You could see how over promising stuff has lead to some mediocre stuff like that iOS star command game. You can also see in the Broken Age documentary when they hit problems early on because they had a much bigger scope once they got more money and ran into some financial problems. Its good that they scoped out the game already and I have faith in Brad Muir, he's a good designer (seriously Iron Brigade was one of my favorite games this generation).
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Jun 5, 2013 02:54
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Caerus posted:Did anyone end up playing Dominique Pamplemousse? Apparently it was released 2 months ago, but I didn't back it so I only found out now. I remember a bunch of people were discussing it last year, and I thought it looked like a nice little quirky game. There isn't really any puzzling to it, it's pretty much just talk to the people / tap the items in the right order, but it works fine. The singing is awesome.
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Jun 5, 2013 03:13
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Caerus posted:Did anyone end up playing Dominique Pamplemousse? Apparently it was released 2 months ago, but I didn't back it so I only found out now. I remember a bunch of people were discussing it last year, and I thought it looked like a nice little quirky game. I got it through Indiegogo, but haven't played further than the first scene. I get bored waiting for voice actors to finish their lines, but I feel like doing that ruins the singing detective schtick, so playing it makes me feel weirdly impatient after a little while.
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Jun 5, 2013 03:22
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I backed Massive Chalice even though I haven't played many DF games and didn't back Broken Age. The muti-generational house system sounds amazing and I'm a big fan of strategy rpgs (especially FFT). I probably wouldn't have backed this if it was a no-name studio. Even if they haven't made a strategy game before at least they have some game experience under their belts.
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Jun 5, 2013 05:12
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Of the 14 different things that Brutal Legend tried to be, "strategy game" was by far the weakest. Tho I suppose it would be easier to go deeper with a turn-based system. IDK.
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Jun 5, 2013 06:57
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Basic Chunnel posted:Of the 14 different things that Brutal Legend tried to be, "strategy game" was by far the weakest. But Brutal Legend was a faux-RTS, not a turn based game. I imagine that means it's not directly comparable. I agree that that stupid RTS stuff completely ruined all my enjoyment of Brutal Legend when they brought it in though...
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Jun 5, 2013 07:02
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I know this is a really  point, but in the original KS video when they mentioned that the game is inspired by Final Fantasy Tactics, the guy drew Cloud from FF7. On the one hand, that is obviously the most recognizable character from any FF game, it makes a certain amount of sense that that's what he'd draw. But if you're using the FFT comparison as a selling point why wouldn't you draw Ramza, since everyone who cares that you mentioned FFT in the first place knows who that is? And especially given that FF7 is not at all the kind of game they are trying to make. Just struck me as strange and comes off like they don't actually know about FFT beyond that its anime Xcom so when it came up he just drew "the Final Fantasy guy". Also they should have just said "a Double Fine Fire Emblem" since that's what it actually sounds like they're trying to make.
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Jun 5, 2013 07:13
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So I didn't actually back it when it was a Kickstarter but Expeditions: Conquistadors is absolutely an example of a success story for the platform. It's a really fun niche title and now I wish I had gotten in for the $5 discount or maybe nabbed the exclusive in-game stuff for backers.
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Jun 5, 2013 07:15
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voltron lion force posted:I know this is a really But Cloud is in FFT! 
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Jun 5, 2013 07:23
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I never worried about getting Cloud...since I dominated with my group of math mages.  Also, you just got out 'd, Voltron. 
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Jun 5, 2013 07:31
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Drifter posted:I never worried about getting Cloud...since I dominated with my group of math mages.  No one ever uses Cloud though, hes so bad. They shoulda drawn Orlandu 
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Jun 5, 2013 07:43
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I was really hoping this first update would sell me on the game but goddamn don't be so coy. Thinking about the kickstarters I followed and enjoyed I've always been more about a strong vision than a bunch of loose ideas. I feel this one is all about ideas with no vision behind it (if that makes sense). It almost annoys me that they're getting so much money when much better kickstarters struggled so much to get funded. Maybe future updates will bring some clarity. Not that they have to worry about winning my $20 over or anything.
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Jun 5, 2013 08:24
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Caerus posted:I think Doublefine are really interested in having the backers see the game being made from the beginning (in real time). Which would be hard if they had already made part of it when they put it on Kickstarter. And if Broken Age is anything to go by, seeing the game being made is incredibly rewarding. (I realize it's been mentioned that the videos won't be as in-depth this time, but I'm still pretty optimistic.) Far as I can tell it's more that they will have a different focus. Where as the Broken Age documentary is more focused on people the Massive Chalice ones will be more focused on the detail of actually making a game [I'd guess more like the Amnesia Fortnight stuff] because they don't have to worry so much about ~spoilers~.
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Jun 5, 2013 08:54
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/05/insanity-shadow-of-the-eternals-crowdfunding-canceled/ Was their Kickstarter just one long sanity effect? 
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Jun 5, 2013 09:01
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PonchAxis posted:Yeah pretty much this. You could see how over promising stuff has lead to some mediocre stuff like that iOS star command game. Also the problem with pre-announced stretch goals was pretty well articulated by Andy Schatz (who made Monaco and other cool games like that). Andy Schatz posted:I really like the idea of free money, but I’m of the opinion that designing a game around a variable budget is a terrible way to design a game. To be frank, I think that stretch goals are total bullshit. It's a good point. If you designed your game to be complete with all these ideas and pieces, what happens if you don't hit your goals and don't get to make the features you had planned. Will your game feel gimped? And on the other hand, if you design your game to feel complete without them, will they feel tacked on or break something? I mean I like a good stretch goal as much as the next guy, but it's a solid point. Also I guess I'm not freaking out about this because Brad Muir is a good game developer and the team at Double Fine are solid. If they feel like they can make a better game by seeing where this thing goes, I'm willing to go along for the ride.
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Jun 5, 2013 10:02
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Budgeting affects the scope of any project, there is always a compromise between what any team, be they games designers, architects or a marketing team, want to do and what they can afford to do. Stretch goals surface the increments of that compromise in a very obvious way but they aren't a brand new issue.
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Jun 5, 2013 10:36
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