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SMG clearly doesn't think 90% of what he posts and is just doing a year round version of the thread where people get random interpretations and random movies and tries to write the best essay they can. He generally does a good job so they are entertaining to read but I am shocked anyone thinks they are actual opinions he holds.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:39
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:In this case the ethnic other really is a pan-dimensional alien killing machine bent on murdering everyone for it's extra-terrestrial masters, not a fellow human being. You cannot apply human morality to kaiju. Kaijew...?
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Jul 18, 2013 19:40
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SMG, if I were to pay to send you copies, would you post your thoughts on an animated series of movies similar to this movie in the anime sub-forum? There are people there that think you would have some sort of breakdown chasing all the subtext.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:In this case the ethnic other really is a pan-dimensional alien killing machine bent on murdering everyone for it's extra-terrestrial masters, not a fellow human being. You cannot apply human morality to kaiju. If you start this argument, you'll eventually have to deal with the fact that there are no pan-dimensional alien killing machines in reality; the only intelligent others that exist here are also humans - so for the lesson about uniting against the other to be applicable to reality, it would necessarily apply to uniting against a human enemy. You'd then be stymied by the very intentional fact that jaegers and kaiju are very similar - two brains, engineered for destruction, supported by humanoids on opposite sides of the rift - and then have to explain why this similarity doesn't count as evidence for why they don't correspond to people. Instead, you should focus on how the kaiju aren't just others, but are in fact invaders - a rather different moral category. (Your opponent might then counter that the insinuation of an invasion, especially figuratively, has historically been used as an argument for oppressing others, but that's a weak counter, as literal invasions are also objectively a real phenomenon.) But if your argument is that the film isn't fascist, you should start with an earlier assumption. Pacific Rim doesn't depict anybody uniting in the sense of becoming one, but cooperating and coming to understand each other while remaining different.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:42
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Half in the Bag reviewed it, and they think it's really great and a ton of fun!
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Jul 18, 2013 19:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:However, you'd be very oblivious to miss the nationalistic aspect of the robots. Why else does the jaeger generator app thing put so much emphasis on the flags?    That's why. Nevermind that this is compounded by the fact that one of the Jeagers straight up leaves and then reenters the Earth's atmosphere.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:42
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Bongo Bill posted:Instead, you should focus on how the kaiju aren't just others, but are in fact invaders - a rather different moral category. (Your opponent might then counter that the insinuation of an invasion, especially figuratively, has historically been used as an argument for oppressing others, but that's a weak counter, as literal invasions are also objectively a real phenomenon.) This is the main issue with SMG's fascism argument because you might as well say the Warsaw Uprising was fascist. The other issue being the automatic assumption in his post that nationalism = fascism.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:45
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Pope Mobile posted:That's not what I'm saying. We made it easier for them to inevitably conquer us. SuperMechaGodzilla posted:Kaijew...? ._______.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:47
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quote:The other issue being the automatic assumption in his post that nationalism = fascism. This again plays into my initial post - that Pacific Rim is a film that hates people like SMG, the Philosopher and the people who idolize him. It celebrates collective, organized human effort to achieve impossible goals - like going into space, walking on the moon, and killing gigantic monsters. There is no philosophy, there is only the work and doing what must be done. For example, Pentecost's monologue to Raliegh here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNQl2Ii0H-I He doesn't care about feelings or being admired, he cares about being the leader necessary to bring everyone's talents together directed to one goal, and that the Shatterdome is a place of almost religious value - the work is holy, it transcends all other needs - the irrational, flailing about of Raleigh "can we just talk about this" like a heartbroken ex-boyfriend - not only wants, but needs Pentecost's scolding to ground him. "All I need is your compliance and your fighting skills." This followed by the ritual of Stacker turning his head and putting his fingers to his ear - it's an intimate, almost sacred act. One could easily argue for Pacific Rim's ideal utopia in the face of our civilization's massive problems being a merging of religious reverence and technological innovation.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:58
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This movie just didn't work for me. Maybe it's my fault ("we both know you're perfect Del Toro, the fault must be with me"), for coming in with incorrect expectations. I was honestly expecting the monsters to be more Lovecraft Mythos-esque, mind-bendingly strange or powerful (like the one Angel in NGE that's a living mathematical concept), the situation to feel more tense and desperate. Del Toro usually adds at least an edge of horror to even his campiest movies, and I was thinking this was the project that began as WETA's live-action Evangelion movie, right? I was not expecting Top Gun with Giant Robots. And I had thought a lot of people who griped about Man of Steel got served right for coming in expecting it to be a different movie, so egg on my face. But putting aside whatever I might have wanted the movie to be and judging it on what it's going for, I found the fight scenes to be poor. The scale of these giant robots and monsters is so massive that you've already got a challenge in making the action clear without scaling the camera back so far the scene turns into a topographic map. Add to that the heavy, dark lighting choices and the constant use of smoke or roiling water and I found the overall image to just be irritatingly dark and closed-in. Pacific Rim is no Transformers in terms of poor staging, but Man of Steel's latter action scenes blew it away in composition, clarity and artistry. Alright, it was competently done but it was competent and bland,without anything as striking as the Gothic Nightmare Krypton from Man of Steel. Esthetically there was just nothing interesting in the movie--the Jaegers are big steely bruisers, the monsters all seem to have some form of rhino snout going on, there's plastic stormtrooper armor and lots of smoke and it's very blah. The kaiju were mostly disappointingly samey with only one interesting one (an octopid) showing up for a minute at the end. The two most interesting-looking Jaegers (also, I couldn't stop giggling at CRIMSON TYPHOON) get disposed of in about five minutes, leaving us with Maverick and Iceman if any interesting part of their personalities was removed. Since I invited the comparison, I'd like to point out that loving Top Gun handled this angle better than Pacific Rim. In Top Gun, Maverick starts out the movie as an unreasonable rear end in a top hat who eventually gets his friend killed, and Iceman is right to consider him a liability. Here, even two dimensions to the relationship is one too many. Australian Guy is a douchebag, Raleigh puts him in his place, and that's the show. Raleigh at least has the distinction of being the most insipidly bland protagonist I think I've actually ever seen in a film. He does things because he has to and only reacts to situations, without ever presenting an actual opinion that might make him less than the perfect Audience Insert Man. I feel compelled to draw a comparison to Star Trek TMP--a big budget sci-fi film famous for having virtually no violent action anywhere in it, which also had a young couple joined by a psychic bond. At least that film's blonde hunk had an interesting dynamic with someone (the mission was supposed to be Decker's command until Kirk pulled rank and butted in, in the biggest dick move in the history of Starfleet Personnel Management). The movie seemed to think all these character dynamics were irrelevant, or merited only the most cursory glance. The relationship between Ralleigh and Australian Guy is literally two scenes. Mako and the Marshal's relationship is given the most meat out of anything and it's hampered by the fact I don't care about either character---they just want to protect humanity, how dull is that? The movie decides this is sufficient because it's supposed to be about spectacle, and action and releasing your inner-10-year-old and poo poo. The whole premise of the government allowing the Marshal to take their hundred-billion dollar war machines and run his own operation, with hookers and blackjack, is absurd on its face but that's no excuse to leave each character a sketch at best. I can swallow a gleefully stupid premise but give me characters with depth or at least charisma.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:59
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Piedmon Sama posted:And I had thought a lot of people who griped about Man of Steel got served right for coming in expecting it to be a different movie, so egg on my face. Not to hand wave your criticism but pretty much this. Silentman0 posted:Half in the Bag reviewed it, and they think it's really great and a ton of fun! Drinking a shot of Jager for everytime Jaeger is said in the film is going to be an amazing drinking game.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:03
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Ferrinus posted:By coming through a portal. Which they're coming through because of stuff we did. So in fact their presence - portal-enabled - is our doing. Like a character said in the movie following telepathic communion with the enemy. What are you doing Again, we made it easier for them. Charlie didn't say their being here was our doing. Even without man-made climate change, the makeup of the atmosphere would still be different than it was 80 million years ago.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:08
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Pope Mobile posted:You're splitting hairs here. 'Phallus' literally means 'penis' in latin & greek. It has a very different meaning in psychoanalysis, if you read a text other than the dictionary. That's the sense that I'm obviously using. gently caress This Puzzle posted:The other issue being the automatic assumption in his post that nationalism = fascism. That's not an automatic assumption. Jeferoo has been posting blatantly fascist rhetoric (with the occasional "but I'm not really fascist" disclaimer) that all accurately describes the film. It's fun because so many Pacific Rim fans agree with him. Pacific Rim and Jeferoo both promote a strong authoritarian leader who stages a militia uprising that exalts youth, virilty, masculinity (etc.) as traits that will give them the courage to pragmatically 'do what needs to be done' to regenerate the ailing nation (or nations in this case). They have both promoted a conception of the nation as an organic and mystical community that should adopt policies against groups 'outside' that are deemed inferior or dangerous to the stability of the nation. They present technocracy and solidarity as the basic principles that would allow the collaboration of productive sectors, to enhance the power of the milita regime - while preserving private property and class divisions. The throughline in all this is war, glorious war - mass mobilization of the community that believes in the above against the enemy. It's fascist.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:20
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So I remember in one of the trailers during the scene where Gypsy has the ship-bat that in the cockpit the ship was actually shown as a holographic projection in one of the pilots hands which makes sense. But in the actual movie it was missing. Maybe because it was the 3D version I saw and they couldn't get the 3D right in time? I'll be watching the movie again in 2D this weekend. It deserves better than being beat by loving grown ups 2.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:24
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Pope Mobile posted:Again, we made it easier for them. Charlie didn't say their being here was our doing. Even without man-made climate change, the makeup of the atmosphere would still be different than it was 80 million years ago. Yes he did. He did say that. He says we terraformed the- what is even your frigging point, buddy, I literally don't remember your objective here.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:26
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GDT said sequel consideration would be something along the lines of biological Jaegers, correct? I wonder if we'd have a more overt invasion or enemy requiring their use. That implies moving forward in the timeline. I actually thought they would go prequel, like height of Jaeger heyday or initial invasion to the first Jaeger built. But the height doesn't seem that challenging in the sense Pentecost said the Shatterdome once housed 30 Jaegers with 5 bays. Feels a bit overkill if they only got one invasion at a time and got really good at their job. Unless there's an internal conflict that brewed up between countries for a kind of civil war.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:31
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Guys just fyi I know(knew) Jefferoo in real life and he's kind of nutso so take everything he says with a grain of salt. Hey Jeff!
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Jul 18, 2013 20:32
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This movie ain't about all that penis swords and kaiju are characters or needed to be some or whatever, ya'll missing the point. This movie is about addiction and what it can do to you. It's Requiem for a Dream for the newest generation. Our main character starts as a party guy. He's a big time party guy. he loves being a party guy. His best friend is his wingman and also a big ol' party guy. They always hang out at Stacker's house, as he always throws the best goddamn parties. Nobody can touch their good times, hey, it's college bro! KEGSTAND, I CAN DRINK A WHOLE FISHING BOAT'S WORTH OF BOOZE. Then tragedy strikes. DUI, drunk bro wingman hits another car on a icy day after a kicking stacker party. The knifehead kaiju that represents the other car and his problem in general tears him out of the windshield and he dies on the side of the road. Maybe if they hadn't drank that final shot, he would have been coherent enough. Party Bro Raleigh is able to function enough to get the car to the side lane, but the moment severely affects him. He graduates, and puts it behind him as best he can. He tries to create and hide behind a wall, to keep out the force of who he was, of what hurt his pal. But that force only needs a little bit of give, and it pushes it straight through. After it breaks through, a drug or two can knock it out fast and with chest missles, but the problem only seems to be getting bigger. the drugs are becoming less effective as the body resists. He meets a young girl with stars in her eyes and starts a relationship. But it's her doom. She wants to be cool, she wants to impress him and her adoptive dad figure, Stacker "The Booze marshall" Pentecost. The Stack is an elite man, top of his game, and he hits the hard poo poo on the side. He doesn't want anyone to know about it though, so he plays off his nosebleeds. Mako knows though. But she sees it the wrong way. She thinks it's what he has to do to succeed at being so awesome. Together, Beckett and Mako begin a downward journey into addiction. Two nerdy guys who want to fit in end up addicted to Blue, a very potent form of meth. Their dealer of the meth is undone by his own cowardice and inability to take his own product seriously. The booze and drugs take Mako and Beckett to dizzying heights before dropping them. From then on all they do is descend. Deeper. Deeper. The Stack reveals his problem will likely kill him. The punk guy who bullies Beckett gives up on his dad, who after injury gets out of the way. he saw the bottom coming up. But Mako, Stacker, Chuck and Beckett can't. They just go deeper. Then all at once they get hit harder than ever before, and everyone loving dies. But did they? Maybe she and Beckett lived, waking up in the hospital. Maybe the positive feeling at the end is genuine. Maybe, even when you are that gone, you have hope to live on. Maybe Beckett saw in Mako what the impact of everything was, and he got her out in time, saved her, possibly sacrificing himself. He was going to just die down there, at the bottom of the bottle, but he saw Mako, he saw her lose everything and he didn't want to be the last thing she lost. He found his way too the top after that final Jaegerbomb. Maybe now, he found a reason to live. I mean seriously it's like blatantly onscreen, I can't believe anyone missed it. Each punch is a shot. Each drift is a snort, I mean look at how the imagery resembled the quick drug edits of Requiem for a dream. Each chest missile shot an upper. Each Plasma cannon shot a painkiller. Each Giant Sword is a needle. It all makes you feel so awesome, so good. Hits you so hard. The bigger the dosage (Imax? 3D? 2D?) the harder it hits, AND WE LOVE IT. We are Raleigh Beckett. He is not a blank, lame character. He is us. We are him. We are the addicted.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:33
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Ferrinus posted:Yes he did. He did say that. He says we terraformed the- what is even your frigging point, buddy, I literally don't remember your objective here. I'm pretty dumb but wasn't CO2 levels much higher when the dinosaurs were on earth? What exactly did we do to the planet to make it more livable for the Kaiju and aliens.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:34
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Ferrinus posted:Yes he did. He did say that. He says we terraformed the- what is even your frigging point, buddy, I literally don't remember your objective here. I forget too. Let's talk about sequels titles instead: Pacific Rim 2: Kaiju Boogaloo E: NoneSuch posted:I'm pretty dumb but wasn't CO2 levels much higher when the dinosaurs were on earth? What exactly did we do to the planet to make it more livable for the Kaiju and aliens. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that CO2 was higher before the dinosaurs started walking around. The high CO2 levels are what allowed plants to flourish early on. In turn, the large number of plants increased the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Higher amounts of oxygen allows for larger animals, which is why we find the fossils of huge, fuckoff scorpions but none exist today.(source: half listening to a David Attenborough documentary on evolution or something) its all nice on rice fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 20:34
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Pacific Rim 2: NOW IN SPACE Pacific Rim 2: NOW THROUGH TIME Pacific Rim 2: ROCKET PUNCHING SATAN IN THE BALLS
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Jul 18, 2013 20:36
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If the sword is a phallus then what does it mean that Strike Eureka has labia-shaped knives?
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Jul 18, 2013 20:39
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NoneSuch posted:I'm pretty dumb but wasn't CO2 levels much higher when the dinosaurs were on earth? What exactly did we do to the planet to make it more livable for the Kaiju and aliens. Presumably the Independence Day aliens also love radiation and aerosols and styrofoam. Poster Dammitwho mentioned earlier how this film was laden with ID4/Jurassic Park refs and that deserves more discussion IMO
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Jul 18, 2013 20:39
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Bongo Bill posted:If you start this argument, you'll eventually have to deal with the fact that there are no pan-dimensional alien killing machines in reality; the only intelligent others that exist here are also humans - so for the lesson about uniting against the other to be applicable to reality, it would necessarily apply to uniting against a human enemy. No, this is silly. The lesson is to unite against something that threatens the survival of the species. That could be global warming, nuclear waste, the Yellowstone caldera exploding, or being stepped on by a kaiju. There's nothing in the movie - and nothing in the kaiju - that's meant to be human. They have the wrong number of eyes and limbs. They are monsters. They are disaster made flesh (hence the category system). They are not shown, shot, or portrayed to be human in any respect. The movie specifically calls this out with "you can fight the hurricane" and yet somehow here we are, comparing them to the always-human "other".
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Jul 18, 2013 20:40
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Febreeze posted:I mean seriously it's like blatantly onscreen, I can't believe anyone missed it. Each punch is a shot. Each drift is a snort, I mean look at how the imagery resembled the quick drug edits of Requiem for a dream. Each chest missile shot an upper. Each Plasma cannon shot a painkiller. Each Giant Sword is a needle. It all makes you feel so awesome, so good. Hits you so hard. The bigger the dosage (Imax? 3D? 2D?) the harder it hits, AND WE LOVE IT.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:42
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Ferrinus posted:Poster Dammitwho mentioned earlier how this film was laden with ID4/Jurassic Park refs and that deserves more discussion IMO I know we all heard the Godzilla roar when they did the snippet of the second Kaiju attack, but I swear I heard JP dinosaur sounds more than once. I plan on seeing PR at least one more time in theaters. Does this mean I need to find a venue larger than MAX? its all nice on rice fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 20:42
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Jefferoo posted:This again plays into my initial post - that Pacific Rim is a film that hates people like SMG, the Philosopher and the people who idolize him. It celebrates collective, organized human effort to achieve impossible goals - like going into space, walking on the moon, and killing gigantic monsters. There is no philosophy, there is only the work and doing what must be done. For example, Pentecost's monologue to Raliegh here: It hardly celebrates those things. In fact, the text of the film basically punishes those efforts. The building of the wall(s) is an even bigger and organized human-wide public works project (it even employs poors!) yet it fails miserably. The Jaeger military goes from like 40 to 4 offscreen, and what started as a collective, organized human effort to achieve impossible goals ends up barely succeeding with a suicide mission. While nations and people certainly do come together to do things, the entire world is destroyed if not for Raleigh, Mako, Stacker and Australian Kid. This wasn't a 60's style space race culminating in Apollo 11.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:45
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Pope Mobile posted:I know we all heard the Godzilla roar when they did the snippet of the second Kaiju attack, but I swear I heard JP dinosaur sounds more than once. Only if you're looking for a big hit how deep into the poo poo are you, man
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Jul 18, 2013 20:47
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No, this is silly. The lesson is to unite against something that threatens the survival of the species. That could be global warming, nuclear waste, the Yellowstone caldera exploding, or being stepped on by a kaiju. "In his analysis of Christ’s dictum, Žižek asks ‘who is the neighbour?’, and he turns to Jacques Lacan’s answer that “the neighbour is the Real.” Yet the Real of the neighbour includes all his/her traumatic vulnerability, frailty, obscenity and fallibility. Žižek thereby concludes that the injunction to ‘love thy neighbour’ and correlative preaching about equality, tolerance and universal love “are ultimately strategies to avoid encountering the neighbour” (Conversations with Žižek, p.72, 2004). To Žižek, idealistic proclamations of love actually preclude the possibility of loving the neighbour as a Real, traumatic, inaccessible other. In his depiction of the neighbour as a ‘concretization of the Real’, Žižek argues that access to the Real is therefore not impossible – it is to be found through the neighbour – but is traumatic and threatening. Encountering the Real via the neighbour confronts us with the raw and vulnerable nature of human being, and such an encounter is often avoided in favour of more acceptable and idealistic generalisations of humanity. Jacques Derrida concurs with this when he states that “The measure is given by the act, by the capacity of loving in act… living is living with. But every time, it is only one person living with another”, concluding with the assertion that “A finite being could not possibly be present in act to too great a number. There is no belonging or friendly community that is present, and first present to itself, in act, without election and without selection” (The Politics of Friendship, p.21, 2005). That is, ‘friendly communities’ pick their members with care, to screen out the unsuitable or unlovable. [...] This argument is also central to the work of Julia Kristeva as explored in Strangers to Ourselves (1991), where she relates the drive to demonise the other back to an unconscious process whereby we externalise the ‘foreigner’. She says: “Strangely, the foreigner lives within us: he is the hidden face of our identity… by recognizing him within ourselves, we are spared detesting him in himself.” (Strangers to Ourselves, p.1). Kristeva also looks to psychoanalysis as an aid to transcending the projection of the foreigner/other as a monster, and she recalls that Freud did not talk about foreigners, but about the uncanny strangeness of ourselves: “The foreigner is within me, hence we are all foreigners. [Yet] If I am a foreigner, there are no foreigners. Therefore Freud does not talk about them. The ethics of psychoanalysis implies a politics: it would involve a cosmopolitanism of a new sort that, cutting across governments, economies, and markets, might work for a mankind whose solidarity is founded on the consciousness of its unconscious – desiring, destructive, fearful, empty, impossible.” (Strangers to Ourselves, p.192)." (http://philosophynow.org/issues/77/Zizek_on_Love) SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 20:48
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Febreeze posted:Only if you're looking for a big hit How much is Too Much?
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Jul 18, 2013 20:50
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Pacific Rim 2: Dinos vs Kaiju
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Jul 18, 2013 20:51
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Pope Mobile posted:How much is Too Much? Some people only find out when it's too late.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"In his analysis of Christ’s dictum, Žižek zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Jul 18, 2013 20:54
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Bonaventure posted:zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Youtube comments are for youtube, silly person.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:58
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The dinosaurs defeated them. We didn't. We needed the dinosaurs. Pacific Rim 2: Back to the Cretaceous
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Jul 18, 2013 20:59
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Bonaventure posted:zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz this is a pretty cool post, guy
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Jul 18, 2013 20:59
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Waffles Inc. posted:this is a pretty cool post, guy Glad it makes you feel something.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:00
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Pope Mobile posted:The dinosaurs defeated them. Pacific Rim 2: Jurassic Park IV
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Jul 18, 2013 21:00
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The hero worked as a welder, Mako was an orphan, Stacker alludes to a rough past, Cerno Alpha and its crew evoke specifically Soviet glory, Crimson Dynamo is from the PRC and the Australians are obviously working class. The PPDC is working class heroes top to bottom, and the world is saved through their collective efforts. Meanwhile this is a world where the government pays the poor in food stamps to do fatal work on a wall that doesn't work (and might have been a scam all along) in the path of monster attacks while the rich flee to the interior. Problems the ruling classes created and couldn't solve facilitated the Kaiju invasion. The face of the US government looks like Mitt Romney. The one openly greedy character, Hannibal Chau, is a ridiculous blowhard who dresses like a cartoon pimp and gets eaten by a baby monster. 
sean10mm fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:01
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sean10mm posted:The hero worked as a welder, Mako was an orphan, Stacker alludes to a rough past, Cerno Alpha and its crew evoke specifically Soviet glory, Crimson Dynamo is from the PRC and the Australians are obviously working class. The PPDC is working class heroes top to bottom, and the world is saved through their collective efforts. I honestly thought that the screen was going to read "President Mitt Romney" during that conference.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:07
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