Faithless posted:Is the movie Gutterballs any good? This is from a while ago, but... honestly, I'm of two minds about it. On one hand, the director is an incredibly nice guy, but on the other, the movie itself is actually kinda terrible. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 00:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 02:13 |
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:I'm irrationally angry about it being based on real-life pseudoscience frauds who encouraged and deepened idiotic ideas that people still hold. That's pretty much where I am on it. It's a shame that it's supposed to be good because I'm still pretty sure I'm not going to able to enjoy it because I'll just get annoyed at the movie for glorifying utter bullshit. Like I get annoyed when fictional movies portray the stuff paranormal investigators as something that's real that has any basis what so ever (like in Episode 50), but it's WAY worse when it's based on "real" events (like Paranormal Entity 3).
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 01:05
|
|
|
axleblaze posted:That's pretty much where I am on it. It's a shame that it's supposed to be good because I'm still pretty sure I'm not going to able to enjoy it because I'll just get annoyed at the movie for glorifying utter bullshit. How is a ghost movie that claims to be based on real events any different from a ghost movie that doesn't make that claim? It's all fiction, after all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 01:24
|
|
|
Drag Me To Hell, Trick or Treat, and Attack the Block all seem like perfect horror movies for 12 year old girls. I can't really imagine anyone else liking them much
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 04:54
|
|
|
Trick or Treat isn't really that appropriate for a 12 year old. The others are but I think you are forgetting some crucial scenes in that film.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 06:15
|
|
|
This trailer for The Conjuring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-jRz7HWqs is one of the most effective short-form horror films I've ever seen, and I hope to God the rest of the movie lives up to that standard. Seeing it tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 07:02
|
|
|
Jonny Angel posted:This trailer for The Conjuring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-jRz7HWqs is one of the most effective short-form horror films I've ever seen, and I hope to God the rest of the movie lives up to that standard. Seeing it tomorrow. Its gotten fantastic reviews, and James Wan seems to make genuinely effective horror movies. I'm actually keen to see it in theatres. Let us know how it is!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 08:50
|
|
|
caiman posted:How is a ghost movie that claims to be based on real events any different from a ghost movie that doesn't make that claim? It's all fiction, after all. Well what I think at least the original poster was saying is that the story of the movie IS actually based on real life events. The real life careers of two charlatans who exploited the deaths of other people in order to make money instead of going out and getting a real job like the rest of us.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
It's based on the same couple that conspired with the Lutz family to bullshit everyone about 112 Ocean Avenue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 14:10
|
|
|
I've already posted about them in this thread re: The Conjuring, but yeah, the Warrens were hacks. New-Age Christian hacks, and even hacks that maybe believed what they said, but hacks nonetheless. Everything they investigated follows a basic pattern: a family is having spooky things happen, the Warrens get called in, the Warrens sense one or multiple ghosts in the house, but inevitably deduce that there is in fact a demon hiding behind it all, entrapping or controlling the human souls. They collect their check and the family either moves or falls apart. The family the events of The Conjuring supposedly happened to didn't go public until 2011 in this book, long after the events themselves, so if I was prone to being more paranoid I'd suggest that this all was made up very recently and the family in question got Lorraine Warren/the estate to let them use the names (because the Warrens were not exactly quiet about their cases normally). e: Still, the movie may be good. There was a special advance screening here last week and I didn't find out about it until the day after!  
H.P. Shivcraft fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 14:31
|
|
|
I don't see why people are so hung up on the Warrens thing. Texas Chainsaw Massacre didn't actually happen either, but it's still a good movie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 14:37
|
|
|
Coffee And Pie posted:I don't see why people are so hung up on the Warrens thing. Texas Chainsaw Massacre didn't actually happen either, but it's still a good movie. Huh? I thought the last three posts answered this. The movie could be great, thats not the point. Do you get pissed off when you see some psychic string a grieving family along by telling them they can contact their missing loved one? The Warrens were similar because they exploited actual real life murders to make themselves famous and make money. There are still assholes out there doing the same things that they did and stories like theirs help to continue fooling gullible, vulnerable people into paying for bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 14:50
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Huh? I thought the last three posts answered this. The movie could be great, thats not the point. Do you get pissed off when you see some psychic string a grieving family along by telling them they can contact their missing loved one? The Warrens were similar because they exploited actual real life murders to make themselves famous and make money. There are still assholes out there doing the same things that they did and stories like theirs help to continue fooling gullible, vulnerable people into paying for bullshit. I don't really get pissed because I think that is the persons way of grieving and dealing with tragic loss, which is an extremely personal thing. I'm also assuming people in these situations don't call their psychic over on a weekly basis to play catch-up with the dead.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
Parachute posted:I don't really get pissed because I think that is the persons way of grieving and dealing with tragic loss, which is an extremely personal thing. I'm also assuming people in these situations don't call their psychic over on a weekly basis to play catch-up with the dead. This isn't the place for a debate about this so I'll drop it, but I really, really couldn't disagree with you more about that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
I just hope it is a well made haunted house movie because that is rare and I like haunted house movies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 17:33
|
|
|
Jonny Angel posted:This trailer for The Conjuring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-jRz7HWqs is one of the most effective short-form horror films I've ever seen, and I hope to God the rest of the movie lives up to that standard. Seeing it tomorrow. Quite a few similarities to The Orphanage going on in there, not that that's a bad thing. Really hated Insidious but think I'll give The Conjuring a go - looks like it might have some nice spooky scenes. What's gonna be the next traditional playground game to be exploited by ghosts? Ouija-Hopscotch maybe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Coffee And Pie posted:I don't see why people are so hung up on the Warrens thing. Texas Chainsaw Massacre didn't actually happen either, but it's still a good movie. It's more about glorifying cheats then it is about being annoyed because it happened. I think I said this in another thread, but to me it's like someone making a movie about Bernard Madoff and this great investment scheme he came up with that saw huge returns on his clients or to use a less extreme example, a movie about Uri Geller and how he managed to be that rear end in a top hat skeptic James Randi in court. I don't like the idea of fraudsters getting movies made about how awesome they are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:41
|
|
|
axleblaze posted:It's more about glorifying cheats then it is about being annoyed because it happened. I think I said this in another thread, but to me it's like someone making a movie about Bernard Madoff and this great investment scheme he came up with that saw huge returns on his clients or to use a less extreme example, a movie about Uri Geller and how he managed to be that rear end in a top hat skeptic James Randi in court. I don't like the idea of fraudsters getting movies made about how awesome they are. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Warrens screw up a seance and release the demon in this house? Are we sure they're being glorified in this movie and not shown as hacks that are messing with something they can't understand? I honestly don't care either way, it looks scary as poo poo, and there's no way I'm letting what little morals I have get in the way of seeing it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 21:03
|
|
|
A little it sensationatistic but a decent article on The Conjuring, The title of the piece is The Conjuring is Rght Wing , Woman Hating , and Really Scary. http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/the_conjuring_right_wing_woman_hating_and_really_scary/ I thought it was a interesting article and write up. Anway I am definitely going to see film now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 23:15
|
|
|
Hollis posted:Trick or Treat isn't really that appropriate for a 12 year old. The others are but I think you are forgetting some crucial scenes in that film. What about trick 'r treat? Dylan Baker has always scared me after seeing him in Happiness for some reason. Also, I'd recommend Childs Play as that worked on scaring my sister for life around that age.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 03:30
|
|
|
Dunno if anyone else posted yet but The Bay is up on Netflix. I'll be checking it out as there was a fair amount of chat about it earlier.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 03:50
|
|
|
Hollis posted:A little it sensationatistic but a decent article on The Conjuring, The title of the piece is The Conjuring is Rght Wing , Woman Hating , and Really Scary. I just got back from a viewing. I didn't pick up on much of the alleged ring-wing/misogynist stuff at all, although it is certainly Christian in that there's a lot of the usual crucifix/holy water/exorcism stuff. I suppose it can be construed as "anti-female" because the villain(s) are women, but that's a huge stretch and looking too deeply into things. As the author of this article admits, I highly doubt the producers themselves even intended to include such a message. Anyway, I liked it, but I have a self-admitted weakness for haunted house movies. It's cliched- literally think to yourself right now about what could happen in the movie, and it will happen- but for some reason I still thought it was good. Vera Farmiga is a great actress and almost entirely carried the film on her shoulders. a rare good quote from the comment section: quote:
Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jul 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 03:59
|
|
|
Just got back from The Conjuring. The article posted above about its awful, backward gender politics and social commentary is spot on, and the concerns some of you have raised about the glorification of snake-oil are also well-deserved. Going in, I was completely prepared to look past that aspect of the plot- after all, even if the actions of people like the Warrens are immoral, are hoax exorcisms / hauntings really a pressing social issue? But, the Warrens really are presented as infallible, holy knights in shining armor here, and the only appearance of any skepticism you'll see in all 112 minutes of its runtime is Ron Livingston's character saying to Ed Warren: 'I was pretty skeptical at first... but now... I'm not.' It's pretty gag-worthy. If you do the mental gymnastics required to look past those issues, there is a little bit left to take in. There are a couple of good scares, and the casting / camera work manage to elevate it above many of its possession-flick counterparts. Like Insidious, there was a lot of potential there that just had too much holding it back (reprehensible thematic elements this time around, a goofy third act in Insidious).
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 04:13
|
|
|
Edwardian posted:Any recommendations of good horror movies for 12-year-olds? I have 8 of them sleeping over for my daughter's birthday, and they want to watch scary movies and scream all night. A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and Killer Klowns from Outer Space would work great for 12 year olds, because they're horror/comedies that are still incredibly effective at scaring viewers at that age.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
Turns out The Bay was...not that great. I appreciate the found footage effort but it was really pretty ridiculous. Its message was INCREDIBLY heavy handed almost to the point of comedy. When the climax was unveiled I really had to roll my eyes a bit as they had been showing you exactly what was coming for quite a while. Knowing that the situation was going to resolve itself (in a bad way) should lead to the audience being fearful but in the end I feel like it just provided a convenient scapegoat ending that handled itself. The whole shakycam thing got a bit annoying as well. At this point it's not adding realism it's just adding a ridiculous dynamic to make it seem more "real". Checking Rotten Tomatoes has it rated at 77% which is absurdly high IMO but I can see how people jumped on the theme of the movie as "thought provoking". I personally felt like I was watching Fahrenheit 911 while driving down a bumpy dirt road but YMMV.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 05:17
|
|
|
Captain Mog posted:I just got back from a viewing. I didn't pick up on much of the alleged ring-wing/misogynist stuff at all, although it is certainly Christian in that there's a lot of the usual crucifix/holy water/exorcism stuff. I suppose it can be construed as "anti-female" because the villain(s) are women, but that's a huge stretch and looking too deeply into things. As the author of this article admits, I highly doubt the producers themselves even intended to include such a message. Furthermore the female characters, to me, seemed stronger than the male characters. I don't think digging up old lore about witchcraft that's been around forever is inherently sexist but that's just me. It didn't make me think that it was a giant step forward for the genre but it's much much less sexist than pretty much any other mainstream horror movie to come out this year other than Mama, maybe. Also I can't take that article's thesis seriously one bit when it's written by a dude and includes the line "Farmiga’s portrayal of Lorraine Warren as a tightly wound but oddly sexy psychic moonbat, with her Scottish-noblewoman wardrobe torn from the covers of romance novels, is very much worth the price of admission."
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 05:24
|
|
|
Got back from The Conjuring a few hours ago. Here's my thoughts: What an incredibly sincere movie. It's something that honestly took me aback, especially given how part of what kneecapped Wan's previous effort in Insidious was its surrender to goofy, distanced camp in its final act. The Conjuring is incredibly old-school and completely unashamed of it, from the moment you get an opening expository text crawl of yellow Courier text on black background that culminates in the movie's title in huge typeface. If you're looking for anything revolutionary as far as the film's structure goes, look elsewhere: this is just an incredibly earnest, well-crafted haunted house picture. James Wan is still one of the best directors working today as far as shooting horror setpieces goes. My favorite part of Insidious was the "tiptoe through the window" daylight sequence with the child ghost, and The Conjuring has plenty of sequences like that. There's just so much palpable joy in the work on screen, all the building of tension and misdirections and releases. Importantly, the movie also asks you the audience to make a sincere emotional connection with its characters, and the strength of its third act is predicated entirely on whether you make such a connection. If you've got a very legitimate reason for not making that connection, e.g. "The real-life Warrens are loving hacks who took advantage of a lot of desperate families", I can easily see how the movie's conclusion would read as incredibly cheesy and manipulative. But essentially everyone in this movie is very likable, and I managed to divorce my feelings about the real Warrens from these two fictional characters, so for me it was incredibly tense, full of stakes, and satisfying. Left me feeling a lot of positive things that I don't really associate horror films, even really good ones. It's hard for me to judge right now whether I feel like it's as regressive as the linked article warns! I will note that, in the movie's defense, it passes the Bechdel test with flying colors, makes all its female characters interesting and easy to like, and repeatedly rejects the kind of "It's not safe for you, woman! I, the man, will solve the problem while you are at some safe elsewhere!" rhetoric that's soured the final act of at least one major blockbuster this summer. It definitely does try to enshrine the strength of traditional family structures, but not in a way that feels spiteful towards alternative ones, and not in a way that's as coercive and Stocholm-syndrome-esque as the recent Mama. I really, really enjoyed myself. It's gonna take a while for me to suss out how much I actually fault the movie for its admittedly not-very-progressive politics, but I suspect it isn't gonna ruin the experience for me. Go see a really earnest, frightening love letter to classic haunted house films! It's called "The Conjuring".
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
I love CD, but damnit if we don't suck the joy out of everything. Now I'm going to feel like I'm betraying my country, and crossing a picket line to get a third trimester abortion just going to see a silly haunted house flick. I promise I'll self flagellate after viewing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 14:03
|
|
|
I am comfortable with the supposedly regressive sexual politics in Mama as well as the "surrender to goofy, distanced camp" in the incredibly sincere Insidious (seriously how dare you). I'm almost expecting it to be too exactly like what I'm anticipating, like Pacific Rim which I saw and remember nothing about a week later.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
schwenz posted:I love CD, but damnit if we don't suck the joy out of everything. I saw this movie last night with my insanely liberal, high school teacher of English literature girlfriend. When I showed her the article this morning, her response? "People can find politics in anything. It was a storytelling choice - witches are primarily female, especially in New England lore, the mother stays at home in the 70's so she's the more 'familiar' threat to the daughters and therefore scarier, and is it a surprise that people who work with the Church might be religious?" She latched onto my arm about 20 minutes in last night and didn't let go. If I had clapped my hands this morning before leaving for work, she would have screamed bloody murder, then killed me. The Conjuring is the best 1970's horror movie made in the 2010's. Little blood/gore, lots of atmosphere, VERY tense, and the jump scare with the policeman and the maid got me drat good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 14:19
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:as well as the "surrender to goofy, distanced camp" in the incredibly sincere Insidious (seriously how dare you) Sorry man, the pair of goofy comic relief assistants that show up with the paranormal expert really took me out of it. They do become involved in a couple of scary moments, but their presence and continual petty banter does suggest a bit of a "Haha, relax, it's just a little horror movie, ghosts are silly and people who care about ghosts are silly" mentality. Similarly, I dunno what the gently caress to make of the red-faced demon's appearance in the Further. Quite possible that it was soured in the context of already feeling like the film had started to chicken out, and that if I watch it again he won't seem as goofy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
I had never heard of The Conjuring before reading about it in this thread last night, but Jesus Christ that trailer was one of the creepiest, most ominous things I'd seen in a long time, and that was just the trailer. If the whole movie delivers on the tone that trailer holds, then it just jumped way up on my "must watch" list.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
JP Money posted:Turns out The Bay was...not that great. I appreciate the found footage effort but it was really pretty ridiculous. Its message was INCREDIBLY heavy handed almost to the point of comedy. When the climax was unveiled I really had to roll my eyes a bit as they had been showing you exactly what was coming for quite a while. Knowing that the situation was going to resolve itself (in a bad way) should lead to the audience being fearful but in the end I feel like it just provided a convenient scapegoat ending that handled itself. This is how I felt. It's funny how a lot of critics will like a movie just because it coincides with their politics. It's not, as you say, "thought provoking" if it just panders to the same thoughts you had while going in there. The word for that, especially in this case, is "boring." I think my major problem with it is that instead of just showing you the evils of chicken poop and pollution with the narrative, they have the main character literally stare into the camera and tell you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
Jonny Angel posted:Sorry man, the pair of goofy comic relief assistants that show up with the paranormal expert really took me out of it. They do become involved in a couple of scary moments, but their presence and continual petty banter does suggest a bit of a "Haha, relax, it's just a little horror movie, ghosts are silly and people who care about ghosts are silly" mentality. Similarly, I dunno what the gently caress to make of the red-faced demon's appearance in the Further. Quite possible that it was soured in the context of already feeling like the film had started to chicken out, and that if I watch it again he won't seem as goofy. Goofy, sure, but I didn't feel alienated or condescended to by it - the silly ghostbusters get really scared by the goings-on once stuff gets going. Sure, it's silly "g-g-ghosts!" stuff but I don't think the film is being snotty or sarcastic about it, least of all the commitment to the red imp demon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 15:34
|
|
|
Completely fair! There's actually a character in The Conjuring that fulfills a similar role, a cop that the Warrens bring on to protect/help with the investigation. His role is a little more subdued than that of the assistants in Insidious, and I feel like the characters in the respective movies are near each other but on opposite sides of some personal bright line for me of "How silly of a character am I willing to accept the introduction of in the later parts of a horror film?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 15:46
|
|
|
To your credit that's a reasonable and agreeable take on how loony Insidious gets, my issue is that I feel like the comedic escalation works for the movie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 16:00
|
|
|
I liked Insidious but I completely get why people don't like it. The two halves are almost completely different movies and the first half is more what alot of people wanted out of it so when it shifts I can see why some people would be really annoyed. As I said, I liked it but I will also say that I did like the first half more than the second.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 16:02
|
|
|
schwenz posted:I love CD, but damnit if we don't suck the joy out of everything. Just go see whatever you want. There are bad people somewhere in the mix in anything in which you partake in life. There are bad who benefit from the movies you go see, TV you watch, clothes you wear, food you buy, etc. The same people who have some moral conviction about seeing this movie are inadvertently supporting all kinds of stuff with which they disagree. But this is a derail. The movie is still getting great reviews and I plan to see it on Sunday 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 17:56
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:The Conjuring is the best 1970's horror movie made in the 2010's. This is pretty much the perfect description of the film. The general atmosphere was perfectly chilling and some of the shots, like the scene where the Warren's daughter is walking down the hallway of their home or the spirit rocking in the chair with Annabelle... only to have Annabelle's head turn instead of the spirit's were some of the best I've seen in a horror film in a long time. And there were a lot more, too! In short, this was a really gorgeously shot flick that also had a drat good grasp of how to build a massive amount of tension with (mostly) practical effects.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 02:13 |
|
|
CobiWann posted:I saw this movie last night with my insanely liberal, high school teacher of English literature girlfriend. Further, if we read meaning in the way something appears in a film, even if we take the position that it is `merely' depicting something---that is, if we choose to accept the palpable falsehood that fiction can hold a mirror up to `reality' and give us only a pure reflection that is in no way distorted by the mirror or the decision on what to mirror in the first place---then this still doesn't address the point of contention unless we accept that the thing being depicted, even if it is being presented as an completely uninflected image of `reality', is likewise devoid of meaning. That is, if I say there's a political message in a film and you say that the elements I point out are present in the `real world', this doesn't address my contention. Elsewhere in CineD I once said that one of the central messages (if we want to think of it that way) of Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket (1987) was that the military sublimates the adolescent sex drive into violence, and cited various parts of the dialogue to support this. One of the responses was that Marines actually talk that way. Which is true, but it doesn't change the argument; it merely argues for the argument's plausibility. Finally, I think embedded in the complaint is the belief that detecting problematic political or social messages in a text is an invitation to terminate discussion. E.g., if so-and-so says some film is misogynistic and we accept that, then we're forced to declare the film anathema and cast it in fire or something. So if we don't want to do this, we end up heatedly defending it by arguing that it isn't misogynistic (or whatever). But it's not that straightforward. Great films can have troubling content. Bad films can have great politics. Most films are somewhere in the middle. Observing what a film is saying---overtly and by implication---isn't something we do so that we can apply a moral purity test to the work so we can decide whether or not we should act like we enjoyed it. It's something we do because we should approach both what we like and what we dislike with intellectual honesty and with awareness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 21:46
|
|
