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jeffersonlives posted:Yes, he was working house show loops squashing upper-mid and even higher faces at that point. Hart/Yokozuna had been the booked main event direction for spring 1993/Mania since basically a few weeks after Yokozuna came in in fall 1992. Thanks for the info. I didn't know Yoko was receiving that big of a push then. The only person I remmeber him squashing at that point was Virgil. For the HBK one, I honestly didn't think Diesel was going to beat Bret at the Rumble, and I figured the teased Bret/Luger match from WMX would happen at WM11.
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Sep 5, 2013 17:58
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Thanks for the info. I didn't know Yoko was receiving that big of a push then. The only person I remmeber him squashing at that point was Virgil. We're still in the "old" way here where those programs were being done at the houses and then the same match would be done on television after the house show matches were dried up, so some of the higher babyface squashes didn't show up on television until after the Rumble. But even before the Rumble Yokozuna had a few month run squashing guys like Bossman, Earthquake, Jim Duggan, and even Savage at the houses, which was a pretty big deal since the former three were fairly well protected and Savage was coming off being pushed as a top two face for a year.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:03
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jeffersonlives posted:The last guy they really booked like that at a high level was Umaga, and that pretty much worked. Trying to push guys like monsters when they do jobs on 9 straight PPVs or whatever Ryback was up to doesn't work, at all. It was 8 PPVs without a win (his first title match with Cena was a draw), book-ended by wins over Hawkins and Reks in a handicap tag and Jericho, but four of those were WWE Championship matches against Punk and/or Cena (one of which he got screwed in), the Rumble (which really shouldn't count), a WrestleMania match, and two six-man tags against the Shield during their megapush, where he was taking the losses beside Cena/Bryan/etc.. Umaga's PPV history during his initial push consisted of a win over Eugene, a draw with Kane, a win over Kane, a loss in a Survivor Series match, two losses to Cena for the title, a loss to Lashley at Mania, a win as part of a three man team in a handicap match, a loss in the rematch, and then a DQ loss to Santino before moving into the IC title picture. They were booked pretty similarly, and I would argue Ryback was actually made out to be more of a threat. The difference between Ryback and Umaga is that Umaga was a good worker and very agile for his size. Ryback is neither of those things and dangerously botches quite often. Paulocaust fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 18:04
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Paulocaust posted:Umaga's PPV history during his initial push consisted of a win over Eugene, a draw with Kane, a win over Kane, a loss in a Survivor Series match, two losses to Cena for the title, a loss to Lashley at Mania, a win as part of a three man team in a handicap match, a loss in the rematch, and then a DQ loss to Santino before moving into the IC title picture. Except nearly all of that isn't in Umaga's "initial push" at all, his initial push was beating and often squashing name guys on television for like nine months, and the cashout matches were the Cena and Lashley programs. Ryback went straight from squashing job guys (his last "program" before Punk was with Jinder Mahal) to losing on PPV (a lot).
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Sep 5, 2013 18:12
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Even when I was a kid I could tell Hawk was either drunk or high at Summerslam 92. He was about an 8/10 on the Jeff Hardy scale of being in no condition to compete. Crush had the stereotype look and size to be WWF champion in a post-Hogan era, even with the steroid scandal stuff, but for whatever reason it didn't end up going his way. Probably because of the aforementioned steroid stuff.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:14
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jeffersonlives posted:At the time they did the Flair to Bret switch, Crush was barely getting on television and was being tried out as the replacement for Hawk in the Legion of Doom, so I don't really buy any story that he was considered for the title. Maybe sometime in 1993 once he actually started getting pushed. That's pretty interesting, I'd always thought Crush was just a fill-in when Hawk ducked out after SummerSlam 1992. Then again, I'm surprised Animal didn't hold some sort of grudge against Hawk for him leaving. Everything seemed fine between them from what I've read and seen from their Japan stint. The WWF seemed okay with taking them back a few years later, but maybe that was out of desperation. On a side note: The Hell-Raisers looked cool. Too bad they and/or the original Road Warriors and TenKoji couldn't feud with each other in their primes.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:16
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Umaga was absolutely presented as a bigger threat than the Ryback, in part because he was a heel and in part because he beat higher-profile guys before he got to the WWE title picture. There was a span of a month where he pinned Cena, HBK, and HHH. The Ryback didn't really beat anyone high-profile, he just kind of moved into the main event when they needed him to.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:17
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I had no idea Brian Adams was almost put into LOD in addition to being a third guy/replacement in Demolition. Why was Ax supplemented and eventually replaced with Crush in the first place anyway? I've heard rumors of various health issues, which seems odd considering that 20 years later Crush is dead and Ax still wrestles in the same old gimmick occasionally. Thauros fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 18:18
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Red posted:Then again, I'm surprised Animal didn't hold some sort of grudge against Hawk for him leaving. Everything seemed fine between them from what I've read and seen from their Japan stint. This is totally me speculating, but even if Animal was pissed he probably knew that him and Hawk together were worth WAY more than either of them separately could be.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:21
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Red posted:That's pretty interesting, I'd always thought Crush was just a fill-in when Hawk ducked out after SummerSlam 1992. No, he was actually wearing the getup for a couple weeks. They were considering Crush and Animal's non-Johnny Ace brother for a longterm position in a new LOD team, but then Animal decided to cash out on his Lloyd's policy instead. Thauros posted:Why was Ax supplemented and eventually replaced with Crush in the first place anyway? I've heard rumors of various health issues, which seems odd considering that 20 years later Crush is dead and Ax still wrestles in the same old gimmick occasionally. Bill Eadie had heart problems that were ultimately corrected.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:22
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Man. Thinking that over - Adams was: - Demolition Crush, Junior S&M Fan - Crush, third Legion of Doom member - Crush, the nice guy who liked to Crush stuff and wear purple and yellow - Kona Crush, Evil Foreigner from Hawaii?? - Jailbird Crush, still on probation, sponsored by Clarence Mason - Nation of Domination Crush, hates whitey and Ahmed Johnson - Crush, leader of Biker Gang - Brian Adams, nWo member (along with VK Wallstreet, Vincent, and Stevie Ray!) - The Demon, trademarked by KISS, for like a week - Brian Adams, half of KroniK And that's not counting his indies gimmick(s), boxing, bodyguarding, or acting. He's had almost as many chances as Beefcake, and he's not even friends with Hogan.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:39
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jeffersonlives posted:We're still in the "old" way here where those programs were being done at the houses and then the same match would be done on television after the house show matches were dried up... This is one of the most interesting things, I think. In this day and age, with 12 PPVs a year, it seems almost unfathomable that you could have fairly big feuds that never made it to a match on TV or PPV. But that happened regularly back in the day. I'll always remember this one. Even with the lovely audio, you can tell there's a ton of heat in that arena - people are calling for IRS' blood. They never made it to a PPV, but I saw them in a steel cage match in my hometown. Hogan/Flair is probably a good example too.
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Sep 5, 2013 18:58
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Red posted:Man. Thinking that over - Adams was: He was friends with Savage. I imagine that could get you as many chances.
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Sep 5, 2013 19:07
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Red posted:Man. Thinking that over - Adams was: I think the most interesting part about guys like Beefcake and Crush is that, for the most part (Beefcake's short-lived Furface and Adams as the original Demon), both of these guys never were someone "different." It's not acknowledged that Kane was Fake Diesel/Isaac Yankem/Christmas Creature/Unabomb. Even Crush, motorcycle-loving DOA leader, was the same guy as the third member of Demolition.
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Sep 5, 2013 19:26
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One of my new favorite wrestlers after the year he's having is Katsuyori Shibata. What are some of his best matches to check out pre-2013?
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Sep 5, 2013 20:01
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Red posted:Man. Thinking that over - Adams was: Minidust fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 20:11
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I was a huge Crush mark in 1992, not even really sure why. Maybe it was his heavy guitar theme (which I believe was just Sid Justice's theme re-worked), or maybe it was his finisher. I remember hearing Cesaro on the Art of Wrestling talking about how into Crush he was, and how he would draw the Crush logo on his notebooks. (He also tells a story of after the "slam heard round the world" when Lex slammed Yoko, he and his friends would stay up making international calls, asking operators if they heard the slam.)
Cromulent fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 20:14
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thatguyclint posted:I think the most interesting part about guys like Beefcake and Crush is that, for the most part (Beefcake's short-lived Furface and Adams as the original Demon), both of these guys never were someone "different." It's not acknowledged that Kane was Fake Diesel/Isaac Yankem/Christmas Creature/Unabomb. Even Crush, motorcycle-loving DOA leader, was the same guy as the third member of Demolition. Was The Zodiac acknowledged as being Brutus while he was actually using that gimmick? I obviously knew it was him, and I know that they said it was him when he turned face again, but I didn't think we were supposed to know it was him at the time. I didn't watch WCW full-time back then though, so I might have been misunderstanding it.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:19
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Diabolik900 posted:Was The Zodiac acknowledged as being Brutus while he was actually using that gimmick? Yes and no. 
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Sep 5, 2013 20:27
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Has there ever been a woman wrestler who could legitimately be compared to CM Punk in terms of mic ability? I've been thinking about the couple dozen or so Diva vignettes and promos I've seen since I got into wrestling, and it occurred to me that there haven't really been many women in the WWE who ever really got great on the mic. I remember Ivory being pretty good, Trish being the best of a narrow field, and now AJ Lee, but not really anybody else. Is there any woman wrestler in any promotion who people could reasonably call the best?
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Sep 5, 2013 20:35
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I remember when Sullivan first brought out Zodiac, he vaguely hinted at it with stuff like "We will destroy Hogan with Hogan's best friend!" or somesuch.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:38
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It took me a LONG time before I realized that the Disciple was Brutus Beefcake. A LONG TIME.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:38
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Castomira posted:Has there ever been a woman wrestler who could legitimately be compared to CM Punk in terms of mic ability? Sherri Martel.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:38
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Castomira posted:Has there ever been a woman wrestler who could legitimately be compared to CM Punk in terms of mic ability? I've been thinking about the couple dozen or so Diva vignettes and promos I've seen since I got into wrestling, and it occurred to me that there haven't really been many women in the WWE who ever really got great on the mic. I remember Ivory being pretty good, Trish being the best of a narrow field, and now AJ Lee, but not really anybody else. Is there any woman wrestler in any promotion who people could reasonably call the best? Vicki Guerrero
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Sep 5, 2013 20:47
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Supreme Allah posted:Vicki Guerrero Vicki rules a lot. She's really good but I don't think she's even close
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Sep 5, 2013 20:58
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Supreme Allah posted:Vicki Guerrero As good as she is, I'm trying not to compare wrestlers to managers with this question.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:04
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Vickie is godawful on the mic. She's a fun heel character but she is horrific at cutting promos.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:31
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I'll take your word for it, I don't really listen to what she says, I just get consistently amazed by the heat she pulls.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:46
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How much physical training do managers generally get, compared to wrestlers? They're not doing a lot of fighting but it's still taken as a given that you'll eventually be thrown out of the ring or bodyslammed or otherwise taking bumps.
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Sep 6, 2013 00:33
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I just started checking out wrestling podcasts, and I can't help noticing Art of Wrestling's archives on welovecolt and on itunes only go as far back as episode 21. Is there someplace I can listen to the first 20 or did something happen there? (Probably not a  issue since it's free anyway)
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Sep 6, 2013 00:48
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Cromulent posted:I was a huge Crush mark in 1992, not even really sure why. Maybe it was his heavy guitar theme (which I believe was just Sid Justice's theme re-worked), or maybe it was his finisher. I remember hearing Cesaro on the Art of Wrestling talking about how into Crush he was, and how he would draw the Crush logo on his notebooks. (He also tells a story of after the "slam heard round the world" when Lex slammed Yoko, he and his friends would stay up making international calls, asking operators if they heard the slam.) Watching wrestling as a kid, at least as someone whose friends didn't watch wrestling, I never was able to watch it consistently. I was limited to watching whatever show was on Saturday, playing video games, as well as renting the rare PPV at the video store. I didn't realize anything about Raw, nor would I have been allowed to watch it even if I did (one TV in the house). So, I became marks for guys for reasons that were not related to their actual performance in the ring, but because of their look. Crush was one of these guys, as was Hakushi. I only started to like Hart because I found out that he was from Canada. Also, because of King of the Ring 1995, I thought Savio Vega was a bigger star than he ever was.
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Sep 6, 2013 00:56
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Maxwell Lord posted:How much physical training do managers generally get, compared to wrestlers? They're not doing a lot of fighting but it's still taken as a given that you'll eventually be thrown out of the ring or bodyslammed or otherwise taking bumps. Generally managers were always fully trained wrestlers who had more ability talking than working, whether they had become too old or they were never good at it in the first place. I'm talking about the oldschool manager role of kayfabe handling matchmaking and contracts as well as doing the talking for their clients. I'm pretty sure the handful of people who want to come up as managers still go through the same stuff.
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Sep 6, 2013 01:05
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Fang Blade Havoc posted:I just started checking out wrestling podcasts, and I can't help noticing Art of Wrestling's archives on welovecolt and on itunes only go as far back as episode 21. Is there someplace I can listen to the first 20 or did something happen there? (Probably not a  on http://www.digitalcolt.com/
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Sep 6, 2013 04:45
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What happened to the 2011 Money in the Bank thread? I can't find it in the archives.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:00
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birdlaw posted:What happened to the 2011 Money in the Bank thread? I can't find it in the archives. Archive threads are listed by time of last post, and the 2011 MitB thread was bumped a few months after. Not sure exactly when though.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:01
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Sir Jebus posted:Archive threads are listed by time of last post, and the 2011 MitB thread was bumped a few months after. Not sure exactly when though. Found it in October, thanks!
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Sep 6, 2013 15:05
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Thanks for bringing that thread up. Enclosed, I found this: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3425528&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=24#post393656865 Banjo posted:If Daniel Bryan becomes WWE Champion I will never post again  ?
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Sep 6, 2013 15:14
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Jack Krauser posted:Thanks for bringing that thread up. Enclosed, I found this: I hope not, I like banjo 
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Sep 6, 2013 18:03
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Speaking of MITB 2011, I was watching random WWE Daniel Bryan clips and wow has he changed a lot since the time he debuted. Compare DB's transformation from NXT to today and a guy like Kofi Kingston, who hasn't changed one bit in what feels like 10 years. Of course I'm sure it's not all Kofi's fault, if he had been given MITB and a World Title Reign I'm sure they'd do something different with his character too.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:04
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Do Alberto Del Rio and Sin Cara have heat with each other stemming back to Mexico? If so, are there any details on why?
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Sep 6, 2013 19:14
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