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raditts posted:Trying to separate someone from their friends / people they know well and convince them that they are a failure and will never succeed without help from you and only you is like the textbook definition of manipulation, man. And call me crazy but a grown man manipulating a teenage girl puts you pretty deep in "evil dick" territory even before the whole hostile takeover thing. Besides, telling children what they ought to do is something all adults do. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 20:34
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There's a pretty big difference between suggesting something is the right course of action and forcing your brother to out his biggest shame to his daughter and then never defending him in any form while watching your niece send your brother out in the wilderness alone. It's not like Korra and Tonraq are just going to mend bridges the next day or anything, he's broken their relationship for at least a while to serve his own goals when it wasn't really necessary and could have been accomplished either without having to tell his past or at least keeping him around if he didn't interfere again.
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Sep 17, 2013 01:19
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tsob posted:There's a pretty big difference between suggesting something is the right course of action and forcing your brother to out his biggest shame to his daughter and then never defending him in any form while watching your niece send your brother out in the wilderness alone. It's not like Korra and Tonraq are just going to mend bridges the next day or anything, he's broken their relationship for at least a while to serve his own goals when it wasn't really necessary and could have been accomplished either without having to tell his past or at least keeping him around if he didn't interfere again. I give it 2 episodes tops before she and her father are reconciled
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Sep 17, 2013 02:19
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You don't have to be evil in the "I'm seizing personal power for my own glory, while creating a false crisis to justify it! Muahahaha!" Way to also be a bad brother and uncle. It's believable he'd sabotage his brother and niece's relationship for petty, family reasons. If anything, if he's being characterized as a severe, orthodox patriarch type who really believes draconian measures are justified to preserve spirituality, him doing nothing to mitigate their family issues makes sense. He probably disapproves of how his brother does things and feels validated to see Korea reject him too. Cue a dozen episodes in where he turns out pure evil anyway and staged everything for his own gain.
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Sep 17, 2013 03:15
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Baron Bifford posted:Korra has been wearing the same set of clothes since Episode 1. She didn't have any luggage with her when she came to Republic City and she isn't trying Republic threads. They must stink to high heaven. Or else she goes nude on laundry day. Not only that she sleeps ontop of a giant bear dog, which means she also smells like dog.
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Sep 17, 2013 04:04
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Wow, it really just struck me that Korra's spent most of her life completely isolated from most human interaction without any peers to interact with. For all that her hormonal teenage-ism makes me want to facepalm, it's kinda amazing she isn't even more socially retarded than she already is, isn't it?
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Sep 17, 2013 04:44
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Here's an interview with Mike, Bryan, and Janet: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/tv/l...+Top+News%29#/5 And it looks like the book 2 premier took a huge drop in numbers. It got 2.6 million viewers, which is lower than any episode of book 1. The question is if the change in time slot, book 1's story issues, or the long wait hurt it most. http://dongbufeng.tumblr.com/post/61435487868/book-2-premiere-of-korra-gets-2-6-million-viewers Edit: And another interview with Mike and Bryan: http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/legend-of-korra-creators-on-the-series-plans.html i hate meatloaf fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 05:01
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i hate meatloaf posted:And it looks like the book 2 premier took a huge drop in numbers. It got 2.6 million viewers, which is lower than any episode of book 1. The question is if the change in time slot, book 1's story issues, or the long wait hurt it most. http://dongbufeng.tumblr.com/post/61435487868/book-2-premiere-of-korra-gets-2-6-million-viewers lunar detritus fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 05:08
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gmq posted:If the numbers don't improve I hope it won't hurt the chances of getting the last two seasons. I think Nick has already ordered the last two seasons, so those shouldn't be in trouble unless they just like literally throwing money away. It may hurt the chances of any more Avatar-universe stuff, though, which would be terrible.
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Sep 17, 2013 05:35
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The Last Airbender the movie demands its sequel. 
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Sep 17, 2013 05:38
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Drifter posted:The Last Airbender the movie demands its sequel. Yeah, that way someone can say 'Uh-vatar' and stay true to the series. 
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Sep 17, 2013 05:41
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WendigoJohnson posted:Not only that she sleeps ontop of a giant bear dog, which means she also smells like dog. She did have her dressy outfit during the party thrown in her honor to get her on the Anti Activist team. And then there's her pro bending uniform. Other than that though...
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Sep 17, 2013 07:29
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Don't forget the Equalist disguise she used to get close to Amon.
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Sep 17, 2013 07:32
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Fried Chicken posted:I give it 2 episodes tops before she and her father are reconciled
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Sep 17, 2013 07:35
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Arbitrary Coin posted:Wow, it really just struck me that Korra's spent most of her life completely isolated from most human interaction without any peers to interact with.
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Sep 17, 2013 07:47
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Arbitrary Coin posted:Wow, it really just struck me that Korra's spent most of her life completely isolated from most human interaction without any peers to interact with.
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Sep 17, 2013 07:58
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Baron Bifford posted:This is ridiculous, as a kid she was only ever been restricted to the water tribes (for some reason, they decided to bring Korra's instructors to her rather than let the Avatar travel the world as per tradition) but never from social interaction in general. She still grew up in that White Lotus compound, though. She's not poorly socialized in a "feral child raised by wolves" kind of way, but she still is in a "homeschooled until the age of 17" kind of way. We haven't seen any indication that she had a peer group of friends her age. I mean maybe the White Lotus signed her up for the local Girl Scout troop or something, but that's beyond the bounds of what we've been shown in the actual show so far.
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Sep 17, 2013 08:06
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TheKingofSprings posted:Yeah, that way someone can say 'Uh-vatar' and stay true to the series. Uh-vatar: The Legend of Kahrra Directed by M Night Shyamalan Starring Kristian Stewart narrating as Korra
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Sep 17, 2013 14:04
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This show is really bumming me out. Korra just is not a very thoughtful character. She seems to swing from action to action with very little purpose. Maybe that is intentional characterization, but if so it is not fun to watch. When compared to Aang, Korra seems two-dimensional. What you see is what you get. My girlfriend has been making a lot of comparisons between Aang and Bobby Hill; both are goofy and sensitive, but with an unfaltering internal compass and incredible competency. Meanwhile, Korra is Joseph Gribble. I just wonder, what is this show trying to say? Most of the episodes from Book One had a distinct moral and it usually always landed. I'm trying to think of how Korra's internal ethos developed over the course of the first season, and I can't. Maybe, again, that's characterization. She's too stubborn and headstrong to be deterred by betrayal or difficult conflict. Also, all the Equalists just went away? Korra literally solved class conflict with a punch. Obviously Amon's philosophy had some problems, but there's bound to be disparity in a society where it seems like a solid quarter of the population has superpowers. That was a majorly cool idea and I was disappointed with the execution. Never once does Korra, as the individual with the greatest Bending potential in the world, stop to think for a moment about how much it would suck to be born without Bending, even after it was taken away from her. Really, I wish season 2 had opened with her still only in possession of Airbending. Another interesting idea the show walked away from. I have a couple little complaints. Bending seems to be experiencing a kind of 'power creep.' I liked the idea that all bending was based on certain movements and technique, but now it seems like a lot of that is being pushed aside in favor of flashy magic blasts. I love Aubrey Plaza's work and I do not care her character, which seems like it's the show's fault and not mine. I'm obviously going to keep watching. It was only recently that I realized I don't care for the direction of the show as it is. I just hope Korra starts doing something instead of being another participant on a conveyor belt of events.
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Sep 17, 2013 16:47
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Rincewind posted:She still grew up in that White Lotus compound, though. She's not poorly socialized in a "feral child raised by wolves" kind of way, but she still is in a "homeschooled until the age of 17" kind of way. We haven't seen any indication that she had a peer group of friends her age. She didn't seem to interact much with the Firebenders she was duelling with in Episode 1 Book 1, and neither does she seem to interact meaningfully with anyone else her age in the Southern Water Tribe in the same episode. Somberbrero posted:Korra just is not a very thoughtful character. She seems to swing from action to action with very little purpose. Maybe that is intentional characterization, but if so it is not fun to watch. When compared to Aang, Korra seems two-dimensional. Ah ha! I think I've figured this out. I have a small theory on how Korra-Mako (and Korra as well!) works based on this understanding of how she relates to people. I remember reading that there's this untested personality typology that basically posits two polar character types: narcissists and codependents. Narcissists are those who are emotional vampires which require wholehearted validation from people and typically come from growing up spoiled; codependents are the complete opposite, they're people who dedicate their lives to satisfying other people's emotional needs and typically come from families which neglect the children. While most people have both tendencies, problematic individuals swing to either extremes and result in not knowing where to draw the line or have boundaries. As a result, they're a natural pair when it comes to relationships since one only wants to take and the other only wants to give -- but it can be the most tumultuous of relationships as well, kind of like two ball bearings circling a funnel. So basically, Korra's the narcissist because she's been spoiled by the White Lotus Society, knowing that she's the Avatar. Narcissists can be extremely headstrong, but deep down inside they crave for their ego to be fed (think Korra challenging Amon on Aang Island) and often blame others when things don't go their way (think Korra confronting Tarrlok). That's why Korra felt extreme grief when she lost her three original bending powers -- the source of her ego could no longer be validated for herself. On the other hand, Mako's the codependent because he's relatively neglected, street rat orphan and all. Codependents are martyrs: they put their own feelings and needs on the backburner and focus on the needs of the dependents first and foremost (in this case Bolin). That's why in Boko 1 when Korra asks Mako what he thinks is [edited back in because hanging sentence] the right thing to do, he just defers to 'whatever you want'. It doesn't matter what he thinks or wants, as long as he's there supporting her as 'The Avatar's Boyfriend' -- what an important job indeed! Thus, all of LoK Book 1 really is just Mako transferring his codependency from protecting/supporting younger Bolin to protecting/supporting Korra -- which also seems to explain why Bolin just doesn't seem to get the same sort of love from Mako now in Book 2. That's why he becomes all overprotective for Korra. On the other hand, he has to leave Asami because she's able to draw her own boundaries (I get the impression when she goes racing with Korra, she does it because she derives her own personal satisfaction from it) and doesn't need that much external ego validation, so she gets dumped for Korra. Ditto for Korra/Bolin too. What this implies is that we have an extremely unbalanced Avatar on our hands here, folks. She was probably unable to master the spiritual aspects of Airbending because of not realising the emotional crutch she carries; in addition to meditation being an exercise of self-validation rather than external validation. She was attracted to pro-bending because of the immediate ego validation from her teammates and the crowd. She abandons Tenzin for Unalaq as teacher because Unalaq knows how to dangle what she emotionally desires (more power and the corresponding ego boost) compared to Tenzin's and Air Nomad inner peace. Personally, I'd like to see her fall to the Dark side. Rise, Darth Korra. [stealth edit because of hanging sentence, drat my copyediting skills] Flat Banana fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 16:54
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i hate meatloaf posted:Here's an interview with Mike, Bryan, and Janet: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/tv/l...+Top+News%29#/5 From there: quote:MDM: Even with P.J. [Byrne's] character Bolin, in Book 2, he’s awesome, and he does the wackiest stuff we’ve ever done with him, but we grounded it in, he’s a little bit lost, and he’s just trying to figure out what the hell to do with his life. And he kind of gets sucked into a certain job that leads to a lot of laughs and fun.
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Sep 17, 2013 17:25
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:What about the Equalists? I'm totally cool with the equalists totally vanishing from the series, it was a good plot point and without their leader alive and well they don't really have anything to rally around so it does make a fair bit of sense for them to drift apart. My issue with that is, as far as anyone knows both Amon and Tarlok are still totally alive? I mean, obviously the audience knows full well that they're both dead as dirt but unless my memories failing me they both died in a speedboat, shooting along the water, in the middle of the ocean far, far away from anyone else. There's no logical reason for the everyday citizen to assume that they died, just that they'd fled the city and gone into hiding elsewhere. No one saw them both die so it seems like the equalist movement could totally have momentum or a resurgence given that everyone in it would all believe (or at least hope) that their leader was still alive. Of course that's not counting the revelation that he was a waterbender but still... Like I said, I'm just about to watch the first two episodes and I'm not 100% certain if I'm remembering that scene correctly so if there's some blindingly obvious flaw in my reasoning I'd love to see it pointed out.
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Sep 17, 2013 17:26
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Yeah, presumably the revelation of his hypocrisy in such a public manner demolished the movement's morale. And since he was the only one who actually could de-bend, they'd have to resort to flat-out murdering benders... Which would presumably drive off a lot of the Equalists that weren't total believers in the cause; hell, didn't some of them express some amount of discomfort at the prospect of publicly executing Tenzin and his kids in the first finale? I can't watch at the moment.
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Sep 17, 2013 17:34
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I'm pretty sure the equalists more or less got what they want, what with there being an elected president and all.
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Sep 17, 2013 17:36
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I think the bigger point with the Equalists is that their dangerous, violent leader is gone; so while they probably still exist and are working for equal rights and representation, there is no need for the police and especially not the Avatar to get involved. Also, from Korra's perspective she has left Republic City, so even if the Equalists are still around and making the occasional ruckus she is not there to see it. So it is not like we are seeing council meetings and Republic City politics and the Equalists have just completely evaporated from the scene or something egregious like that. ^ Also what gannyGrabber said. Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 17:41
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^^^ Yo you don't have to spoiler that. I think I already said it in here, but upon getting notice of three seasons ordered I would have rather gotten something more akin to the original series. A long, overarching goal and mini-goals in between. This would hopefully let the characters breathe and allow for some characterization other than the breakneck pace we've been getting.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:01
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Flat Banana posted:Some sharp analysis That's pretty drat good. It goes to explain a lot, like Mako and Asami not working out, Bolin seeming more pointless, Korra's intransigence... even the Anakin Skywalker comparison is apt. She probably won't go all Dark Side though, except maybe as some brief low-point before finally learning something. It does go a long way to explain why she's such a frustrating character, though, her fundamental flaws are too deeply buried for us to see any progress on. The whole of season 1's washed over her and done nothing to help her overcome her own issues, and season 2's starting with fresh problems that they've created. In terms of character development, she's basically still at square one. Also like that note about them shying away from having her lose all bending except air and having to relearn. It seems like any interesting consequence from season 1 were just discarded, from the Equalists to people having lost their bending power, which when coupled with the lack of character development means the show could've basically started now, here with season 2 and would be no worse for wear.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:30
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gannyGrabber posted:I'm pretty sure the equalists more or less got what they want, what with there being an elected president and all. Guy A. Person posted:I think the bigger point with the Equalists is that their dangerous, violent leader is gone; so while they probably still exist and are working for equal rights and representation, there is no need for the police and especially not the Avatar to get involved. And now, thoughts on the first two episodes as I have them (spoilered stuff is generally pretty light but I figured there are still people like me who want to go in completely blind): *Bumi's kind of annoying. *Wow, schlocky Aang carnival merchandise, that's so...realistic. Like, I could absolutely see people commoditizing him like Jesus is in the real world. *I was wondering how they were going to give Korra more capable opponents to fight. It seemed like with her gaining use of all the elements by the end of book one and how combat ready she already was to start with she'd just crush any normal person who went up against her, the spirit shadow thingy put up a good fight. * "Spirit?! Why are you angry with us? What have we done to offend you?" *Bitchslapped* Oh god I laughed like a fuckin' hyena. * All this whinging about who Korra learns with...why is it even there? She's what, 17? Why the hell can't she do both? Go train with Northern guy for awhile until she feels she's grasped it, then go finish mastering airbending. Not like one precludes the other. * I hope we see more of Tenzin's sister, she seems nice and is more tolerable than Bumi. * Will air acolytes ever stop seeming like creepy Aang fanboys? * "Avatar Aang had other children?! The world is filled with other airbenders?!" "...We're not airbenders." "Oh, oh I'm so sorry." Goddamn if the show didn't solidify the above even more with those lines. * Calling it now, Northern water tribe guy is either going to turn out to be well intentioned but harsh or the root of all evil for this season with absolutely no middle ground between those two options. * "Well, what do ya know-" "Go away Mako. Good to see the humor's intact in this season. * "What are those?" "Dark spirits..." Korra, he just finished telling you that there's no such thing and that all the spirits are a mix of good and bad.  * Okay, I'm starting to love the two creepy northern tribe kids. * Untouched, pristine forest in the middle of an arctic wasteland? Sure, go ahead and damage it you moron, I'm sure there's nothing mystical about it * I didn't notice it in the first fight but are the spirits animated in a different way than everything else? If they are that's a remarkably subtle way of showing how out of place they are. *"Why are you initiating physical contact with another woman?" Okay, yeah. I love the creepy northern tribe kids. * Suddenly, WARSHIPS! Goddammit northern guy, I was hoping we could have a good guy who wasn't nice this season  Why've you gotta go all religious zealot on us?Whelp, Looking back these notes are...interesting. Anybody have thoughts on them? Edit: Flat Banana posted:
InequalityGodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 18:39
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Somberbrero posted:This show is really bumming me out. If only. I would love to see Korra do some pocketsand-bending.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:51
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I find the constant demands for Korra to suffer, lose all her powers, fall to the dark side, and in general to have the universe poo poo on her constantly kind of out of line for Avatar: The Last Airbender. The closest to that was Zuko and he began as a literal villain who had to fight very hard to make up for his mistakes. The characters were flawed and remained flawed for long periods of the show, showing only gradual development punctuated by large bursts of growth which usually came near the end of the season or during major character-focus episodes. Zuko was, again, probably the best developed of the lot.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:56
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Feeble posted:Good point. I never even thought of how the electoral process would be a big step forward for equality. My memories a bit hazy but wasn't the council of book one nothing more than one of each type of bender? I can see how that seems a bit unequal. I just really hope they acknowledge at some point that for all they know he's still alive and could still be a threat. It would just seem really, really out of place to me for the first major villain of the series to basically be forgotten. Yes and no: the council in book one was a representative each for the Fire Nation, Earth Kingdom, Northern Water Tribe, Southern Water Tribe, and Air Nomads, with the last obviously a sort of hopeful future thing with Aang trying to rebuild that culture. It was a holdover from the time when the United Republic being made of but separate from the existing elemental nations was still a new and experimental idea, and by the time of Korra had outlived its usefulness since it wasn't very representative and because nation of origin wasn't the main thing people were identifying with anymore whether benders or non-benders. At the time of Korra all members were benders, though this historically was not always the case and in fact the only past council members we know of were non-benders. This current situation was very useful to Amon, both to get the right sort of scapegoating going to drive his followers, and to make the council members reasonably frightened as individuals in a way that made them behave unreasonably as authority figures.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:59
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Somberbrero posted:This show is really bumming me out. Honestly, with the Republic City Hustle episodes... I was hoping they were going to put Bolin in the area of unfaltering internal compass. I thought they demonstrated he had good trust in the people he deemed as good and it turned out better for them. (I personally liked the Toza plot) He may not be as smart as Sokka, like doing the job for Shady Shin, but it looked like he was still shrewd enough to make good judgments and is brave enough to try. I miss the team problem-solving dynamic. This storm and stress poo poo should be over with by now.
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Sep 17, 2013 19:18
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ImpAtom posted:Zuko was, again, probably the best developed of the lot. I found myself way more into in what Zuko was doing for a good chunk of Book 2. Kind of hoping we get a side story out of Tenzin's group that's half as interesting as the Zuko stuff. It seems like they're setting something up with Jinora but that could just be more to do with that statue being weird than her actually having some kind of important role.
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Sep 17, 2013 20:23
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WhiffleballDude posted:I found myself way more into in what Zuko was doing for a good chunk of Book 2. Kind of hoping we get a side story out of Tenzin's group that's half as interesting as the Zuko stuff. It seems like they're setting something up with Jinora but that could just be more to do with that statue being weird than her actually having some kind of important role. I hope Jinora ends up with an interesting role, just to move at least one of Tenzin's kids beyond comic relief. I don't know if this show will have anyone like Zuko though - Zuko was an interesting character that had good development, but so far there aren't any long-term villians set up in that vein.
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Sep 17, 2013 21:19
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Little do you realize that the whole show is a long-term descent into darkness for Bolin
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Sep 17, 2013 21:30
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imperialparadox posted:I hope Jinora ends up with an interesting role, just to move at least one of Tenzin's kids beyond comic relief. I don't know if this show will have anyone like Zuko though - Zuko was an interesting character that had good development, but so far there aren't any long-term villians set up in that vein. I don't think this show will have any villains like Zuko, but then, Zuko was never really villainous to start with - he was just on their side, rather than an actual villain himself. It was obvious from pretty early in book one that he had doubts about the Fire Nation and would probably switch sides eventually. I imagine Tenzin is taking his place in Legend of Korra, being the sub-plot of the show, though with a smaller amount of it given the lower episode count. I'm definitely finding his story to be more enjoyable and intriguing than Korra's at the moment at least.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:14
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Flat Banana posted:So basically, Korra's the narcissist because she's been spoiled by the White Lotus Society, knowing that she's the Avatar. Narcissists can be extremely headstrong, but deep down inside they crave for their ego to be fed (think Korra challenging Amon on Aang Island) and often blame others when things don't go their way (think Korra confronting Tarrlok). That's why Korra felt extreme grief when she lost her three original bending powers -- the source of her ego could no longer be validated for herself. Flat Banana posted:What this implies is that we have an extremely unbalanced Avatar on our hands here, folks. She was probably unable to master the spiritual aspects of Airbending because of not realising the emotional crutch she carries; in addition to meditation being an exercise of self-validation rather than external validation. She was attracted to pro-bending because of the immediate ego validation from her teammates and the crowd. She abandons Tenzin for Unalaq as teacher because Unalaq knows how to dangle what she emotionally desires (more power and the corresponding ego boost) compared to Tenzin's and Air Nomad inner peace. Also, Korra, while proud, does not strike me as a narcissist in the clinical sense.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:36
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Baron Bifford posted:She abandons Tenzin for Unalaq because she wants a change of pace. Also because she got her as whupped by a spirit who shrugged off her most powerful attacks, so she decides it's more important to fix this gaping hole in her repertoire rather than refine what she has already mastered. I feel like you're watching a completely different show from everyone else.
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Sep 17, 2013 23:36
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raditts posted:I feel like you're watching a completely different show from everyone else. How the hell did you get any of that from what's going on, Bifford?
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Sep 17, 2013 23:47
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I am intensely curious about Tenzin's siblings. Bumi being the only non-Bender in his family must be goofy as he is for some reason. Maybe it's Sokka's fault. As for Kya, there's not much to say for her other than she's the middle between uptight Tenzin and crazy Bumi, so she's reasonably well adjusted. I do also want to see the siblings in action and hope to be in awe by it. The Tenzin subplot looks to have a lot of potential. Perhaps even more than the A-plot.
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Sep 18, 2013 00:20
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