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skyliner posted:I agree with this. Genuine enthusiasm is a refreshing change from all the "YOLO" and "swag". This seems to be a developing trend with speedrunning as of late, skill and optimization taking a backseat to who's the most charismatic/loudest person.
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Nov 30, 2013 04:22
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UraniumAnchor posted:Bloopers (Mario Party 2) I just got around to watching the bloopers video and I've queued it up to the Mario Party 2 segment. Did anyone ever figure out the statistical probability of getting as far as they did in Bowser's Big Blast? I've never seen a round of that minigame last even close to that long.
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Nov 30, 2013 04:30
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timp posted:I just got around to watching the bloopers video and I've queued it up to the Mario Party 2 segment. Did anyone ever figure out the statistical probability of getting as far as they did in Bowser's Big Blast? I've never seen a round of that minigame last even close to that long. Some napkin math is telling me that when two players are left the odds of a round resetting are about 1/3. 2/3 for the first player to survive and 1/2 for the second player to survive. So 1/3^rounds, and I counted 8, so that would be about 1/6561. Could be completely wrong on that but it seems reasonable.
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Nov 30, 2013 05:36
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Lutha Mahtin posted:There weren't a ton of amazing GG games. And some were just rebadged Master System games. The Shining Force game gear games were great, but they're not very good for speed running.
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Nov 30, 2013 05:53
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UraniumAnchor posted:Some napkin math is telling me that when two players are left the odds of a round resetting are about 1/3. 2/3 for the first player to survive and 1/2 for the second player to survive. Something something Monty Hall problem.
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Nov 30, 2013 06:10
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Alteisen posted:This seems to be a developing trend with speedrunning as of late, skill and optimization taking a backseat to who's the most charismatic/loudest person. To be fair, the purpose of livestreaming a speedrun (instead of just doing it by yourself and posting the video) is to entertain the viewers. Charisma is a meaningful quality in a streamer, though I agree that awkwardness that stems from enthusiasm is way better than "look at this human being you guys" and trying really hard to be a bro.
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Nov 30, 2013 06:16
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uh ohSiglemic @Siglemic posted:shoutouts to @cosmowright for RUINING THE SPEEDRUNNING COMMUNITY FOR OWN PERSONAL GAIN what happened? edit: heh Cosmo Wright @cosmowright posted:@Siglemic what did I do now Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Nov 30, 2013 |
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Nov 30, 2013 06:53
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While Cosmo and Sig go at it, here's a really good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xx1Hl8MFAw
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Nov 30, 2013 07:00
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Looks like Cosmo is pushing for separate categories based on platform rather than just saying hey n64 is what we use deal with it.
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Nov 30, 2013 07:02
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If they don't split by console, how will I ever take the world record of SOTN with the Saturn version???? Really though splitting it is good, and for people who are new and just want to know what the best is just point them to the original. I imagine somebody new to speedrunning doesn't need to immediately know about the intricate details of the iQue and would be quite happy watching an N64 1.0 cart run.
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Nov 30, 2013 07:06
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heeheex2 posted:While Cosmo and Sig go at it, here's a really good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xx1Hl8MFAw Suddenly, Eminem's "Stan" started playing in my head...
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Nov 30, 2013 07:12
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Shots fired by Sig. He has a point though not everyone can afford to purchase a stupid Chinese import.
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Nov 30, 2013 07:25
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heeheex2 posted:While Cosmo and Sig go at it, here's a really good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xx1Hl8MFAw biinny has good fans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTVIjoeZEU
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Nov 30, 2013 07:30
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 Looks like it will end well.
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Nov 30, 2013 07:37
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It needs to be on a case by case basis with the decision being whatever the community that runs the game thinks. Honestly though, they just need something and it doesn't have to be perfect.
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Nov 30, 2013 08:01
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Why does Sig act like a dramatic emo douche, like his world is crumbling around him whenever Cosmo bellows a decree?
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Nov 30, 2013 08:11
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If people want to say "yo only this version counts" then cosmos idea seems to work for that, as it allows for you to filter by console then link to that as the "real" leaderboard. And if people want to post ique times, they can, and it wont affect your leaderboard in the least.
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Nov 30, 2013 08:13
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Crotch Bat posted:Why does Sig act like a dramatic emo douche, like his world is crumbling around him whenever Cosmo bellows a decree? Because his record is all he has, and lowly virtual console plebs are stealing it from him.
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Nov 30, 2013 08:20
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If I had to guess, it seems like Siglemic holds two somewhat incompatible positions: 1. The fastest time represents the best run of that game 2. N64 NTSC-J is the highest skilled version of SM64 because it has the most lag optimization He sees VC as a "lesser" version despite the fact that it's faster, so I guess VC runs that are faster than his time offend him. I could be wrong, though.
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Nov 30, 2013 08:36
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Violently Car posted:If I had to guess, it seems like Siglemic holds two somewhat incompatible positions: Well, with SM64 the best times have always been on N64 except for a brief moment in time where Hyassin had a better time. Japanese VC is also the Shindou version, which is actually slower than N64, so the fastest version isn't really readily available to them at all. I also think there's a difference between a game being faster because one version has a glitch that the other doesn't, and being minutes faster because there's less lag. In the end though, nobody really cares anymore because Sig is the best player with the best run of the game.
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Nov 30, 2013 09:22
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Add fields for version/platform on the leaderboard and let people sort how they choose. It's useful information.
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Nov 30, 2013 09:50
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I can't wait for the day I get to speedrun *GAME* in the version 1.0 HD widescreen category on the Funstation 3.
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Nov 30, 2013 12:25
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argondamn posted:Honestly though, they just need something and it doesn't have to be perfect. Yeah, they're really fussing about trying to get it to be absolutely perfect when the inherently muddy and confusing nature of version differences across thousands of games makes that goal absolutely impossible. Like, this is a fight you cannot win, the only solution that won't come across as making sweeping decisions for a bunch of people who may not like your decision is just to declare open season for all versions, include filters for version and let the community make of it what they will. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I think all this stalling and trying to hash out how to make it perfect is a complete waste of everyone's time when perfection in this case is impossible, intangible even.
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Nov 30, 2013 12:51
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Yeah, they're really fussing about trying to get it to be absolutely perfect when the inherently muddy and confusing nature of version differences across thousands of games makes that goal absolutely impossible. Even the entire "100%" concept and its myriads of varying interpretations (or other challenge categories) clearly steps back from the "primary" goal of finishing* a game as fast as possible* in favor of showing off more of the game and more skill. Trying to homogenize all these established conventions (what counts as 'finishing', what is allowed) just seems ignorant.
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Nov 30, 2013 13:32
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I think separating by console makes the most sense, obviously it gets a lot more complicated when you look at the PC though. I've been watching some guy speedrun mario golf and it looks like he's got the world record in the US, Japan and Euro versions. If you want to be king big dick of Mario 64 then get the WR in all versions and don't try to proclaim there is only one version and one way to play.
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Nov 30, 2013 16:34
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Crotch Bat posted:Why does Sig act like a dramatic emo douche, like his world is crumbling around him whenever Cosmo bellows a decree? He's also only like 18 so yeah.
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Nov 30, 2013 16:45
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Cosmo has it right and Sig is just being a giant sperg lord. You will never be able to pacify the whole community with a sweeping decision from a single game scenario.
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Nov 30, 2013 17:34
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Just split them, how hard is that!?
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Nov 30, 2013 18:18
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What is the standard rule for running a game that was released on multiple platforms naturally? Surely someone runs a recent game that has a PC/360/PS3 release? What happens then?
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Nov 30, 2013 18:19
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Usually there's a preferred version (like one version has a trick that just doesn't work, making the game almost non viable.) Other times, you get stuff like Meatboy where there's just 2 categories because the games are different enough to have different routes. Really it's down to the community of people playing it. Often it's just a handful of people playing (glover) or they all decide on a standard version (metroid prime), or else you get into these giant slapfights where you have hundreds of runners for a game like SM64 or OoT.
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Nov 30, 2013 18:27
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Volt Catfish posted:He's also only like 18 so yeah. Sig's like 22ish, iirc. I think you guys are entirely failing to see Sig's point of view at all just because he was being sorta dramatic about it. Cosmo literally bought an iQue just to "make this discussion happen"/cause drama so I don't think it's bad that some people are upset. People who watch streams are super obsessed with a lovely concept of "World Records" and that's where most of this comes from anyway; most runners really just want improve their run regardless of what title it would have. e: Eh, this drama is stupid. http://www.twitch.tv/502marathon The 502 marathon is going on -- no donations to get anyone to AGDQ or anything like that, just a group of dudes all playing their speedgames back to back and hanging out. Check it out. ToastyPotato posted:The VC versions of Sonic games have been out for a while right? Did that cause any drama? 2D Sonic games use in-game time, Sonic Adventure 1/2 have slight version differences and the PC versions are considered different because of loading times most. Brett824 fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 30, 2013 |
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Nov 30, 2013 18:49
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I'm pretty neutral on it but I think I get Sig's pov? Maybe? I mean, I can see how it would kind of suck if you end up fracturing games into a million categories to account for every possible version of the game + every possible hardware combo, as opposed to having standardized hardware and software versions for simplicity. But this whole issue only seems to focus around N64 games because I have never seen the drama spill over here for anything other than Mario64 and OOT. The VC versions of Sonic games have been out for a while right? Did that cause any drama?
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Nov 30, 2013 19:07
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As a complete outsider to all this, excluding people in an attempt at standardising seems bad. As others have mentioned, having fields for version and category and having filters seems like the way to go.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:35
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Brett824 posted:
THat's cool. I have been getting increasingly disgusted by the amount of people who are begging for money. It reminds me a lot of how the SC2 community was at its height and it went balls deep trying to monetize everything and get as much out of the viewers as it could only to fall flat and die off as fast as it started leaving a lot of people with nothing. I just think the naked cash grabs that these streamers are doing is gross really. I swear there will be several thousand people at AGDQ based on the number of streams I see begging for money to go.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:38
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Peewi posted:As a complete outsider to all this, excluding people in an attempt at standardising seems bad. I just don't understand why you wouldn't do it this way. That way if you only consider N64 runs legitimate thats all you have to look at. If someone else wants to see the best time on all platforms they can see that. There's literally no good reason to exclude people based on their platform.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:47
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Ramadu posted:THat's cool. I have been getting increasingly disgusted by the amount of people who are begging for money. It reminds me a lot of how the SC2 community was at its height and it went balls deep trying to monetize everything and get as much out of the viewers as it could only to fall flat and die off as fast as it started leaving a lot of people with nothing. I just think the naked cash grabs that these streamers are doing is gross really. I swear there will be several thousand people at AGDQ based on the number of streams I see begging for money to go. I think the donation begging can get gross, but I don't think asking for money to go to AGDQ is one of those things. The ones that I've watched have always asked for an amount to cover their expenses and then the rest gets donated to AGDQ. Moltov even took the donation link off of his page 2 hours into his 24 hour stream when the amount he asked for passed. I don't see a problem with asking your viewers if they're willing to pay to see you showcase the run they've probably been watching you practice for months at AGDQ. That's just my opinion though! I guess if you think you shouldn't be able to go to AGDQ unless you can pay out of pocket even though you have an audience that will send you, then it's probably still gross to you, and I can understand that.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:53
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katkillad2 posted:I think separating by console makes the most sense, obviously it gets a lot more complicated when you look at the PC though. I've been watching some guy speedrun mario golf and it looks like he's got the world record in the US, Japan and Euro versions. If you want to be king big dick of Mario 64 then get the WR in all versions and don't try to proclaim there is only one version and one way to play. I think this is my favorite post on the subject. I understand that learning two versions of the same game can make an absolute world of difference in the way you run it, but come on. If your thing is "competitively speedrunning Super Mario 64" I expect you to be able to do it on any version. They're different, but it's not exactly apples and oranges. 99% of the skills needed to run one version are transferable to another. I also like this post because it made me watch some Mario Golf speedruns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN28cLivpuc  Ramadu posted:THat's cool. I have been getting increasingly disgusted by the amount of people who are begging for money. It reminds me a lot of how the SC2 community was at its height and it went balls deep trying to monetize everything and get as much out of the viewers as it could only to fall flat and die off as fast as it started leaving a lot of people with nothing. I just think the naked cash grabs that these streamers are doing is gross really. I swear there will be several thousand people at AGDQ based on the number of streams I see begging for money to go. Most streamers I've seen have been really humble about people donating, and will outright discourage people from breaking their own bank to donate.
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Nov 30, 2013 20:12
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habanero walrus posted:I think the donation begging can get gross, but I don't think asking for money to go to AGDQ is one of those things. The ones that I've watched have always asked for an amount to cover their expenses and then the rest gets donated to AGDQ. Moltov even took the donation link off of his page 2 hours into his 24 hour stream when the amount he asked for passed. I don't see a problem with asking your viewers if they're willing to pay to see you showcase the run they've probably been watching you practice for months at AGDQ. That's just my opinion though! I guess if you think you shouldn't be able to go to AGDQ unless you can pay out of pocket even though you have an audience that will send you, then it's probably still gross to you, and I can understand that. It starts to get gross when you see threads on SDA asking for advice on how to get your viewers to pay for your marathon trip, it's even more gross when people do them so close to marathon time when travel expenses increase in price exponentially, that 900 flight could've been 300 if you had planned the trip ahead. If people actually planned ahead their trips the number of donation marathons to get to a *GDQ would go down exponentially.
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Nov 30, 2013 20:37
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Uhh apparently Zoasty is having a marathon as well. http://www.twitch.tv/zoasty
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Nov 30, 2013 20:49
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Alteisen posted:Uhh apparently Zoasty is having a marathon as well. Looking forward to that "blind blind any%" Super Metroid run later.
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