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David D. Davidson posted:Just wait you'll hate both Mangy Crackhead and Kat by the end of the game. Just put in spoiler and tell me why.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:18
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:2 dodge buttons. No lock-on button. Ninja Theory folks
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Dec 15, 2013 01:18
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Logical1234 posted:Just put in spoiler and tell me why. I would like it if you'd come to your own conclusions about this. Scalding Coffee posted:God Hand used the whole d-pad to dodge and had a taunt button. Gaming is devolving. God Hand was also an amazing and flawed game. And had some amazing ideas about difficulty.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:27
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Fine I'll wait. Though let me makes this clear: Dante is okay. He' still definitely cliche in many aspects at this point. I just notice that he does have some positives.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:32
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Yeah, I find myself warming to him with each episode but then something stupid happens to burn up some of that good will. Like in this last episode he seems to be a genuinely caring guy when talking to Spunk Witch, but then we get that stupid inner monologue with the Jesus metaphors and angel orgies. If they did less of that stupid stuff I might actually like the guy by now.
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Dec 15, 2013 02:55
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Lotish posted:Yeah, I find myself warming to him with each episode but then something stupid happens to burn up some of that good will. Like in this last episode he seems to be a genuinely caring guy when talking to Spunk Witch, but then we get that stupid inner monologue with the Jesus metaphors and angel orgies. If they did less of that stupid stuff I might actually like the guy by now. I kinda agree, I just don't hate him yet. I think a lot of it's that he's conversing with Kat, and actually interested in what she's saying. Old Dante would be hitting on her with goony one-liners. I like her way more than Trish so far  On the other hand it took a little while for Metroid: Other M to "Go directly to Hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200", so we'll see.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:13
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David D. Davidson posted:Mangy Crackhead Please stop doing this, it's dumb as hell. I mean none of your posts have been all that insightful despite you saying you'll be, like, the envoy of people who don't like DmC or whatever, but baby steps I guess.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:29
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Bellmaker posted:I kinda agree, I just don't hate him yet. I think a lot of it's that he's conversing with Kat, and actually interested in what she's saying. Old Dante would be hitting on her with goony one-liners. I like her way more than Trish so far Man the relationship between Dante and Trish in the first game creeped me out so bad. She was "better" in DMC 4 because they didn't remind you that she's a demonic copy of his mother (spoiling in case this thread ends up playing the original game); I still didn't like her but she was a much different character, much more like goofy DMC 3 Dante in spirit, just with gratuitous sexy poses.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:59
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Chaos Personified posted:If Dante is Tameem's ideal of a badass, then he really hasn't grown much past 13. It's a very common trait in game designers. It goes side by side with the need to make games serious drama and a dislike for any game that doesn't do the same believing that by not doing so the game is impeding games' acceptance as legitimate art form. Which is akin to thinking comedies are keeping art house movies from being taken seriously.
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Dec 15, 2013 04:06
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Lotish posted:Man the relationship between Dante and Trish in the first game creeped me out so bad. She was "better" in DMC 4 because they didn't remind you that she's a demonic copy of his mother (spoiling in case this thread ends up playing the original game); I still didn't like her but she was a much different character, much more like goofy DMC 3 Dante in spirit, just with gratuitous sexy poses.
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Dec 15, 2013 04:26
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For some reason I never put two and two together with Lady. DMC3 was the first one I played, and Lady was always a bit too assertive and completely uninterested in Dante for me to think of her as any kind of a sexual thing. I think this is because I've become so used to revealing outfits on female characters that I just don't notice it anymore, and so the only thing I noticed about her was the Rocket Launcher Bayonet. Which, as impractical weapons go, was always my absolute favorite in the series.
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Dec 15, 2013 04:42
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A Catholic schoolgirl with a skirt made of spare machine gun magazines.  It's been a while since I played DMC 3, but I remember liking Lady. Course, I also liked Lucia in DMC 2 for some reason. Lucia much more plainly has an interest in Dante by the end than Lady does; Lady is in a vulnerable place by the end of the game, but she closes the game out like she started--by blowing up demons instead of draping herself in Dante's arms or something. I liked that. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 04:44
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Lady having a Catholic schoolgirl design is something that I never really notice until someone points it out. Yeah, the short-shorts are unnecessary really but generally I notice the sheer amount of firepower she carries before I notice her clothing.
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Dec 15, 2013 04:58
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Another positve I can point out: Visuals design is awesome. I love the concept of Limbo already. The moment you enter Limbo, all the lies are cleared away, and they show the ugly truth. That is great visual design, no matter what people say. Also I think that from the conversation in episode five, I get why this version of Dante is a dick Analysis time! Dante is anti-social, an rear end in a top hat, and all that crap because ever since he was kid in an orphanage, the people he trusted in that place turned out to be demons. Honestly, in a world where you can't tell who's a demon or not until they change, Dante of course would have trust issues. Being anti-social in this world probably keeps you alive. So honestly it no surprise that Dante's a dick. Kat on the other hand, was put on drugs, was taught that she was insane, and the fact is, it's implied she as tramua from something, the point where she would basically mentally go to Limbo to escape her nightmares. In other words, she's never been treated sane in her life, and demons have been destroying her life for years. Finally Vergil saves her, teaches her how to use her abilties, and basically is the only person who's ever given a drat about her in her life. Her issue probably is dependency on Vergil for stability, that's my best quess. She trusts Vergil to the end. So far, characters are actually a bit complex, and the theme of trust seems to be the thing for now.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:06
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Logical1234 posted:Another positve I can point out: Visuals design is awesome. I love the concept of Limbo already. The moment you enter Limbo, all the lies are cleared away, and they show the ugly truth. That is great visual design, no matter what people say. I'd be more impressed with the concept of Limbo if I hadn't both seen They Live, and played Bayonetta, where 'Purgatorio' functions very similarly (sans the world trying to kill you and demon text and so on).
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Dec 15, 2013 06:18
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Pesky Splinter posted:I'd be more impressed with the concept of Limbo if I hadn't both seen They Live, and played Bayonetta, where 'Purgatorio' functions very similarly (sans the world trying to kill you and demon text and so on). Well, you can say that about a lot of realms in between reality, floating walls and all that crud. What matters is that you add your own style to it. From what I've seen, Limbo seem's to be not be in another realm, but more of place like reality with physics and mass all messed up. The difference between reality and Limbo is creepy because of that similar look and feel to the area. Also, just because they borrowed the theme from something doesn't mean the visual design isn't good. It just means they had inspiration from something. I at least respect the visual design for what is, some pretty awesome imagery.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:43
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Veyrall posted:the only thing I noticed about her was the Rocket Launcher Bayonet. Well it's not impractical when you wind up shooting the creep who rescued you in the face from a 2000 story while he's still dangling you over the drop.  That must be one drat good Bayonet especially when you consider that she was able to jam it into solid stone and it could still hold her body weight. Anyways yeah I will give this game some credit the level design and art direction is pretty drat good. Shame about everything else though. David D. Davidson fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 06:56
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David D. Davidson posted:
That's just Ninja Theory in a nutshell.
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Dec 15, 2013 08:44
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I like that they ponder about all the hidden writing on Limbo is demonic text messaging of some sort. I'd like to think that Ninja Theory noticed that Demon/Dark Souls was popular, and at the last moment tried their own variation of spamming simple sentences and phrases on the floors. Also this level feels like some oh-so subtle "critique" on Soda drinking for some reason. I can just see Tameem sitting on his horde of overpriced bottled water, talking about how those filthy soda drinkers are just slaves to mass marketed obesity. 
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Dec 15, 2013 09:19
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Testekill posted:That's just Ninja Theory in a nutshell. No. Ninja Theory made Enslaved, which even though is based of a tale, it actually had a really interesting ending. And I've pointed out positives in DMC's Dante too.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:35
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I like how everyone keeps looking down on Dante for joining angel orgies when we all know that every single one of us here would do precisely the same thing if given a chance.
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Dec 15, 2013 11:37
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Yeah, I love STD's.
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Dec 15, 2013 12:06
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Aurain posted:Yeah, I love STD's. Can angels even get STDs? For that matter can Nephilim? You're probably safe with the boning angels, and if not well even fallen angels still have a lot of power and can probably easily deal with a disease or two.
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Dec 15, 2013 12:19
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Aurain posted:Yeah, I love STD's. STDs are a human affliction. You aren't human, Aurain. you are a son of lowtax!
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Dec 15, 2013 13:22
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My darkest secret revealed.  Besides, I'm pretty sure the angels would be carrying it dormant from Dante due to them being immune.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:19
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I'm sure Dante's Nephilim immune system can overpowere an STD or two. He can make bullets out of thin air after all.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:23
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Neruz posted:I'm sure Dante's Nephilim immune system can overpowere an STD or two. He can make bullets out of thin air after all. Now you're making me picture his T-cells bullet-surfing on the gonorrhea virus.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:08
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Angel STDs? Really? Also not ragging on angel orgies as a concept. Im ragging on them as a background story element. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 16:11
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Oxxidation posted:Now you're making me picture his T-cells bullet-surfing on the gonorrhea virus. Normal white blood cells are amorphous masses that just blob around but Dante's form into multiple limbs that flail wildly with various swords and guns. The virus is not equipped for getting shot in the face. Rigged Death Trap posted:Angel STDs? Really? You'd rather they were depicted in game?
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Dec 15, 2013 16:33
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Neruz posted:You'd rather they were depicted in game? He'd rather they didn't exist just as a device to make Dante look ~cool~.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:01
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Schubalts posted:He'd rather they didn't exist just as a device to make Dante look ~cool~. So how would you introduce angel orgies?
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Dec 15, 2013 18:28
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I wouldn't introduce them at all. I especially wouldn't introduce them purely to try to make the main character more appealing to 13 year olds.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:36
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Logical1234 posted:Also, just because they borrowed the theme from something doesn't mean the visual design isn't good. It just means they had inspiration from something. I at least respect the visual design for what is, some pretty awesome imagery. The only ones I like are the first area carnival-pier area, and two, very striking, levels from later on. Honestly I feel they underutilize their strongest element in this game. Same for enemy designs also - there's three I think are really decent. Crabtree posted:Also this level feels like some oh-so subtle "critique" on Soda drinking for some reason. I can just see Tameem sitting on his horde of overpriced bottled water, talking about how those filthy soda drinkers are just slaves to mass marketed obesity. I think what annoys me most about the whole "This video game is a social commentary" thing, is that they don't really use it to actually 'comment' on things. They use the images, sure. But they seem to have very little meaningful opinions on them. For example, the whole Order, using the imagery of Anonymous (and the V for Vendetta mask), and having zero things to actually say on that. It's "gently caress soda because...uh...demons". On that note, it's never brought up ingame, but this is Vergil's backstory; quote:While Dante was admitted to an orphanage run by demons as a child, Vergil was adopted into a rich family. Highly-gifted, Vergil wrote a security encryption program that made him a multi-millionaire before he was even out of school. Why this isn't ever brought up I don't know. Neruz posted:You'd rather they were depicted in game? Left trigger for ANGEL DICK, right for DEMON DICK. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 18:37
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Pesky Splinter posted:Left trigger for ANGEL DICK, right for DEMON DICK.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:45
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Schubalts posted:I wouldn't introduce them at all. I especially wouldn't introduce them purely to try to make the main character more appealing to 13 year olds. Well then I'm afraid you don't want to be hanging around in the apocrypha and inspired works because it has a lot of implied and outright stated sexing in it.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:20
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The fallen angels from the poo poo they are referencing were dudes thanks to the eras they were created in having the rule that power = masculinity. Everybody forgets that thanks to Victoria's Secret popularizing PG-13 sexy angel motifs on their television specials though.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:44
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Pesky Splinter posted:I think what annoys me most about the whole "This video game is a social commentary" thing, is that they don't really use it to actually 'comment' on things. Look man, there is a deeper meaning that you just have to literally find in yourself by ripping a hole into your chest. Like our many still images ripped off of Classical paintings will show you. If you can't understand it, than maybe deep in your heart, you really are crazy. :Smug Dante: "Pesky Splinter" posted:
I want to know why every Mother in this game has to be killed and almost every backstory father needs to be enslaved, likely to Sadomasochism demons. It's getting to be a really creepy pattern in this game where every mother needs to be revenge motivation for someone. Of course, Virgil - being a rich New England dork, needs two mothers to seek revenge over because whatever. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 19:56
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To draw parallels between what happened to Sparta to Vergil's adopted parents, also laziness. This doesn't bother me. Instead what bothers me about this is that it actually makes a pretty big plot hole even wider. How come Mundus doesn't know about Vergil? I mean yeah he only believed that there was one child but still why didn't a brilliant kid making a revolutionary new surveillance system and becoming a multi-millionare and later disappearing followed by receiving threats from a masked man who knows the truth about everything not give Vergil away so much sooner? All MC has been doing is getting shitfaced and and having angel orgies. It just doesn't make sense.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:12
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Neruz posted:Well then I'm afraid you don't want to be hanging around in the apocrypha and inspired works because it has a lot of implied and outright stated sexing in it. Biblical apocrypha? poo poo, the Bible itself has enough sexual themes in it. I don't have a single problem with sexual themes. I wouldn't introduce angel orgies into any material I could write for, because it feels like nothing more than audience titillation nowadays. And if I ever did, it wouldn't be explicit descriptions of an angel orgy, it would at most be a bullet point on a list of what angels got up to after God stopped watching over them/controlling them. Anyway, the point of contention is an angel orgy that is never brought up before or after it occurs, in DmC: Devil May Cry, a videogame in a series that had not had explicit sex before. "Those fallen angels sure are horndogs. Dante sure is lucky to get in on that former-divine sexing. Let's watch, so we can see just how lucky Dante is."
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Dec 15, 2013 20:13
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SirDan3k posted:The fallen angels from the poo poo they are referencing were dudes thanks to the eras they were created in having the rule that power = masculinity. Everybody forgets that thanks to Victoria's Secret popularizing PG-13 sexy angel motifs on their television specials though. No-oo, the angels in question were things like flaming wheels covered in eyes and interlocking golden gears that shon with the light of the sun, poo poo like that (which explains why Nephilim were things like a 9 cubit tall giant). Angels were very specifically not human because Man was made in the image of God remember? The humanoid angel we know today was popularized during the renaissance
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Dec 15, 2013 20:13
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