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Keeping salaries hidden and relying on negotiations means that often people are getting bonuses for negotiating skills rather than their job performance (unless, I guess, they are working as a negotiator). This can lead to inadvertent systematic problems. For example, women are generally socialized not to negotiate hard. AND, people are socialized to see a woman who negotiates hard as being a bit of a bitch. The result: women don't negotiate as much, and if they do, they are more likely to suffer negative consequences. I am sure there are similar results with other groups -- for example, I imagine someone who's whole family works in high-end professional careers, say, will be more likely to negotiate than someone who comes from a background where negotiating just isn't possible -- even if they are both equally "deserving" of a raise. Obviously negotiating is never going to go away, but I am in favor of making salaries public. This doesn't exclude having performance-related pay (achieve x sales/year and get y promotion), or negotiating bonuses -- it just means that the employer needs to justify why that person deserves the bonus and the next person doesn't.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:55
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Guinness posted:Well, they have a somewhat different problem. Really high performers might resent that they know they are getting paid the same as the average guys at the same level and have no power to do individual negotiation or get raises/bonuses above and beyond whatever the collective bargain is. Or worse yet, that they're getting paid only marginally more than the low performers that will never get fired because the union makes it such a hassle to get rid of people. Union employee here, and yeah, the performance thing is def a factor. I push harder and outsell other employees, but everyone ends up making the same, and really the one who makes the most is the person who has been there the longest either way. That being said, I would say the trade off is worth it for the better benefits and value you get there.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:58
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Just had a few beers last night with a friend from the neighborhood. He was telling me he's got 200k in private student loans for a graphic design degree from some private art school that he never completed. He's got 2 kids and is living paycheck to paycheck working a McJob, and they are about to start garnishing 10% of his wages. I guess he should have known better, but I still feel bad for the guy.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:12
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Jesus. I have two associates, a BA, and 3/4s of a master's from high ranking public universities in non-academia career driven programs and I'm only in the hole like $60k for the whole thing  Thank god someone told me about the horrible consequences of for-profit "colleges" and private student loans, and that my institutions work hard to give their students enough federal aid to prevent Sallie Mae, Wells Fargo, and whoever else from cashing in on us. E: I should also add that I had no parental support and was only able to start making enough money to support myself through part time work near the end of the bachelor, so I know it can be done with McJobs and loans for living expenses. My career is also based on social welfare, so seeing clients throw their money and indenture themselves for Heald College or ITT Tech makes me sick on an almost weekly basis because they don't know Medical Transcription certificates are worthless and can be had for $100 in books from the near-free community college. Information is power, and information is reserved for the offspring of the educated 
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Jan 23, 2014 21:41
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Allowing teenagers to unknowingly throw themselves into financial slavery is probably one of the worst aspects of our society. My sister passed up free tuition at a top 50 public school to move across the country and incur $90k debt and she won't have a job when she graduates  .
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Jan 23, 2014 21:54
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My coworker got a Master's Degree from a for-profit college and years later is still in debt over 100k in student loans. She didn't need the degree to get hired here. She does a good job, probably makes around 60k-ish. But ever since she started here a couple of years ago, she's been making a drive in from about 2 hours away. That's four hours per workday to get from home to work and back again, assuming there's no traffic. Even with one work from home day, that's 16+ hours a week! Between gas, vehicle wear and tear, and personal sanity, the cost seems unsustainable. But again, she's been doing it for years, no signs of stopping.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:14
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I had a brief stint working for a startup online college and they are exactly as horrible to their employees as they are to their students. Very similar to a high pressure sales environment, except instead of sales it's enrollments. We were selling $20,000 AA degrees, the kind you get at community college. It was absolutely disgusting and I'm quite proud that I never managed to sign anyone up. I think some part of the back of my brain realized what a poo poo deal I was selling these people and made me terrible at pitching the "dream" of online college to them. What a load of horseshit they told us to say too, how it would get them a better job and how it would make them more money. Preying on people's fears. Absolutely sickening. For-profit education is one of the worst things about our society, no questions asked.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:36
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Got two BSes and one semester left to a Masters that I will never complete, and if I had to do it again, I would have just went to comunity college. It made no difference in my emplyment or my job path after I was initially hired. School debt sucks.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:41
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WampaLord posted:For-profit education is one of the worst things about our society, no questions asked. For-profit healthcare is another.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:46
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Tony Montana posted:For-profit healthcare is another.  Don't stop being awesome in BFC and in the Star Trek thread. I really enjoyed your points that you made over the last couple of pages, I had a similar debate with the BFC hivemind in SlowMo's thread.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:48
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Even non-scam colleges have programs that are for-profit. Like they have programs they care about, and others that only stay around with low admissions requirements for the easy money. A number of big schools care a lot about undergrad and PhD programs, while treating terminal masters programs as cheap sources of income to pad their budgets.
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Jan 23, 2014 23:05
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Jeffrey posted:Even non-scam colleges have programs that are for-profit. Like they have programs they care about, and others that only stay around with low admissions requirements for the easy money. A number of big schools care a lot about undergrad and PhD programs, while treating terminal masters programs as cheap sources of income to pad their budgets. These are the types of masters students that I tend to interview that bomb really, really hard, too. 
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Jan 23, 2014 23:06
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Jeffrey posted:Even non-scam colleges have programs that are for-profit. Like they have programs they care about, and others that only stay around with low admissions requirements for the easy money. A number of big schools care a lot about undergrad and PhD programs, while treating terminal masters programs as cheap sources of income to pad their budgets. Aren't law schools usually huge profit centers, too?
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Jan 23, 2014 23:15
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Jeffrey posted:Even non-scam colleges have programs that are for-profit. Like they have programs they care about, and others that only stay around with low admissions requirements for the easy money. A number of big schools care a lot about undergrad and PhD programs, while treating terminal masters programs as cheap sources of income to pad their budgets. Which is why it makes me laugh that the 20% of my master's program that signed contracts with the state to get a free degree are considered money grubbing pariahs who "aren't in it for the right reasons." The attitude of some professions towards financial solvency in academia is just mind boggling. I even got asked by my internship director if I was only going into my speciality because it had a stipend attached; as if that would be a bad reason if I were otherwise capable and competent and content. I sell community college and state public schools HARD to any teenage clients I encounter. One of my clients is filling out his FAFSA with me next Wednesday to go to a state school on a full ride 
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Jan 24, 2014 00:07
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Jeffrey posted:Even non-scam colleges have programs that are for-profit. Like they have programs they care about, and others that only stay around with low admissions requirements for the easy money. A number of big schools care a lot about undergrad and PhD programs, while treating terminal masters programs as cheap sources of income to pad their budgets. On the other hand, there are huge revenue generators that subsidize the rest of the university that they DO care about. The dean from my alma mater's business school came and spoke at a conference I went to. He told us about how there are only three "cash flow positive" colleges at the university, and those subsidize the other ones. (law, biz, med) Public funds and tuition combined only provide about 40% of the operating budget. They are "cash flow positive" because of alumni gifts. So it's sort of unsurprising that some of the business school grads end up hitting the lottery and becoming bazillionaires and kicking some back to the school. That's why almost all the buildings at universities in Oklahoma and Texas are named after oil tycoons.
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Jan 24, 2014 23:05
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Someone in this thread said /r/personalfinance was a treasure trove... and they did not lie.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:00
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Tales Of Desire posted:My coworker got a Master's Degree from a for-profit college and years later is still in debt over 100k in student loans. She didn't need the degree to get hired here. She does a good job, probably makes around 60k-ish. But ever since she started here a couple of years ago, she's been making a drive in from about 2 hours away. That's four hours per workday to get from home to work and back again, assuming there's no traffic. Even with one work from home day, that's 16+ hours a week! Between gas, vehicle wear and tear, and personal sanity, the cost seems unsustainable. But again, she's been doing it for years, no signs of stopping. I will never understand the mindset of the long distance commuter. I used to work with someone who was making about 35k and commuting an hour's drive each way (Beeton to Toronto, for Ontario people), on public transit, so it was like 2 hours each way. And she lived on a street up there, not like, a farm or something. Granted, she had kids, and wanted a house, but there were closer places: she could have gotten a second job in the time she was commuting and paid the minor difference. My old boss at a different gig was similar: he'd come an hour's drive via transit, usually took him two hours and change: when it was snowy and he couldn't get transit he'd drive: once it took him 5 hours to get into the office. Again, he just lived on a normal street, by himself. You're literally pissing away 20 hours of your life every week.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:54
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And I thought one of the guys who works night shift here was nuts! He lives in Chicago, but we're located over an hour north(so probably a 1.5 hour commute on the way in, since it's at night, and god knows how long when he's going with rush hour traffic to get back each morning). He's currently living with his parents, so he might not have to pay rent, but the time savings alone seem like it'd merit moving up here. (Not to mention reduced gas spending and wear & tear on his car) And the rent up here for a 1br apartment is fairly reasonable for what this line of work pays. At least the guys taking public transit can read a book or something on their way to work. 
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Jan 25, 2014 01:17
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I love audiobooks and podcasts and sometimes wish I had an hour-long commute so that I could get caught up with my TAL backlog. A fifteen-minute train ride gives me no time for Ira!
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Jan 25, 2014 01:56
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tuyop posted:I love audiobooks and podcasts and sometimes wish I had an hour-long commute so that I could get caught up with my TAL backlog. A fifteen-minute train ride gives me no time for Ira! That's the one thing I miss about my long rear end commute, the podcast and reading time that I had (I took public transit). But the time that I got back from reducing my commute to 20 minutes each way instead of 2 hours each way (I have no idea how I put up with that for 5 months) was life-changing. If you have a long rear end commute, please consider moving. Commutes are the most stressful thing and they'll wear you down.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:09
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On average my commute is 3.5 - 4 hours a day. 2 weeks into the job I was already looking at apartments in walking distance.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:26
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Long distance commuter checking in. I travel 2hrs each way into NYC. There's an hour on the train, which I spend tethered with my laptop, then 30 minutes on the PATH, which is usually standing room only, so I'll listen to audio books. The rest of the time is walking or transferring. It sucks, but I really don't want to move right now, and a crash pad isn't feasible. On the plus side, work is understanding and I don't have to spend 9 hours in the office when I can get work done on the train. Yes, I can work from home. No, I don't do this, because I have a tendency not to be productive when I work from home, so I force myself to go in.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:58
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tuyop posted:I love audiobooks and podcasts and sometimes wish I had an hour-long commute so that I could get caught up with my TAL backlog. A fifteen-minute train ride gives me no time for Ira! If only there were some way to get ready 45 minutes earlier as if you did have an hour long commute, and sit and listen to it in your living room.
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Jan 25, 2014 04:00
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SpelledBackwards posted:If only there were some way to get ready 45 minutes earlier as if you did have an hour long commute, and sit and listen to it in your living room. Yeah but I can be doing productive stuff that requires concentration then (which is why I wake up like four hours before I have to be at school). They're great for housework, though.
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Jan 25, 2014 04:15
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THE RED MENACE posted:Allowing teenagers to unknowingly throw themselves into financial slavery is probably one of the worst aspects of our society. My sister passed up free tuition at a top 50 public school to move across the country and incur $90k debt and she won't have a job when she graduates When I lived in san francisco and walked by the Art Institute building and saw all the happy confident early 20 somethings smoking out front my heart would sink for them. And I was loving homeless at the time.
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Jan 25, 2014 04:18
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THE RED MENACE posted:On average my commute is 3.5 - 4 hours a day. 2 weeks into the job I was already looking at apartments in walking distance. I'm applying for management jobs at my company, currently commute 35 minutes and was worried that 45 minutes would be more than I should bother with. I guess I could be in a worse situation if I end up driving that much.
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Jan 25, 2014 04:22
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Twice in my life I've had a waking commute. One was 20 minutes through downtown, the other was ten minutes walking down the hill in my neighbourhood. Awesome. It takes me longer now, but it's on transit. Glad I live in an area where I don't have to drive.tuyop posted:Yeah but I can be doing productive stuff that requires concentration then (which is why I wake up like four hours before I have to be at school). They're great for housework, though. Hell, for me there are just too many distractions at home. Last month I ditched the smartphone and got a kindle, and I wish my commutes were longer. Love it. I'm behind on podcasts now, but as you've said, they're great for housework, which has actually helped me be more motivated for that. I used to listen to TAL while at the gym, but that's been quite a while... ... So, uh, to stay vaguely on topic. My brother ignored all advice to get his house inspected before he bought it. I don't know the terms of his mortgage, but I'm sure they weren't good. A few years later, after a replaced roof and who knows what else, he abandoned the house and declared bankruptcy. He told our mother that he sold it.
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Jan 25, 2014 04:44
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borodino posted:When I lived in san francisco and walked by the Art Institute building and saw all the happy confident early 20 somethings smoking out front my heart would sink for them. And I was loving homeless at the time. This picture should have been painted (?) by Normal Rockwell.
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Jan 25, 2014 05:19
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That was the best thing about working at sea, you'd have someone wake you up half an hour before your watch, and if you didn't feel like showering, you'd go back to bed for another ten, fifteen minutes.
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Jan 25, 2014 05:22
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MickeyFinn posted:This picture should have been painted (?) by Normal Rockwell. Here's a comic similar in concept. I live about an hour by walking/transit from my work. Then again I live in Australia where we have only a few cities with sprawling metropolitan areas, so moving somewhere closer to work isn't really an option. I know a few who travel 4+ hours a day to get in to work because they live so far away. Then again, Australia has a massive housing affordability problem, so no surprises why people live so far away when the average house price nowadays is 6x the median salary. Twenty years ago it was just 3x the median salary.
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Jan 25, 2014 08:12
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An old friend of mine just got the same highest paying job he's ever had (something like 3.5 grand a month) and decided to buy a brand new, completely decked out 2014 f250 He still lives at home, is 24, and has to drive over 100 miles round trip to his job. He doesn't even need a truck for anything. He doesn't even hunt. Now I don't know his financing on it or interest but I really doubt he put a decent down payment on it because he bout it 2 months after getting the job. Sure he can probably afford it but to choose a truck over a house/apartment , is being poo poo at money.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:10
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Inudeku posted:An old friend of mine just got the same highest paying job he's ever had (something like 3.5 grand a month) and decided to buy a brand new, completely decked out 2014 f250 Is it just me, or are down payments a thing of the past for cars? When I bought a car 10 years ago, putting $10k down was a normal thing. I bought my wife's car 2 years ago and they didn't even mention a down payment.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:25
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OneWhoKnows posted:Is it just me, or are down payments a thing of the past for cars? When I bought a car 10 years ago, putting $10k down was a normal thing. I bought my wife's car 2 years ago and they didn't even mention a down payment. It's definitely not a thing most people consider when deciding on a car. Even the super-discount 10k Hyundai plastic car market seems all 0-down. But they still put it in the dealership ads so it must be a factor in someone's mind.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:34
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Inudeku posted:An old friend of mine just got the same highest paying job he's ever had (something like 3.5 grand a month) and decided to buy a brand new, completely decked out 2014 f250 I guess it's up to you what's important, but living with your parents? Seriously?
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Jan 25, 2014 18:41
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Tony Montana posted:I guess it's up to you what's important, but living with your parents? Seriously?
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Jan 25, 2014 18:49
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I mean, I have no problems with people needing to stay with their parents be it that they're going to college full time and want to focus on that rather than work full time too, or can't afford to move out but when someone does it just because it's trash. Grown men with decent paying jobs should move out. All he does is work and play Xbox. He's willingly driving 500 miles a week in a f250 just because he wanted a truck he had no use for. Edit: moving back home to save money for your family is a very valid reason.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:49
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I think it would be pretty nice to move in with my parents when we have kids. Their house isn't nearly big enough but my grandmother lives with them as well. Having three generations all together like that is a pretty romantic idea. I call it the paleo budget.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:04
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Inudeku posted:Grown men with decent paying jobs should move out. I've got coworkers who have lived at home for the first couple of years out of college with well-paying engineering jobs and god drat have they been able to save a lot of money. They're able to drop nice down payments on houses at the age of ~25 and I won't lie: I'm a little jealous that they're able to live rent free for those first few years and stash a ton of money, especially with rent being so expensive in Orange County. That said, there's no way in hell I could live with my parents -- I wanted out at 18 and I'd never go back. But if you've got a stable family life and are willing to put up with the lack of privacy for a few more years, I don't think it's crazy for employed graduates to stay at home for a bit longer and stash tons of cash. Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 19:30
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Grown man living in his fathers basement apartment checking in. Its downtown, a 15 minute walk from work, and I get along with my parents. gently caress every person who says I should move out. The only way I'm ever leaving this apartment is when I have the down payment on a house.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:36
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I'm a recent grad still living at home and it enables me to live debt free with a savings/take-home at 72%  . Moving out would cost me at least $1k/month to live in west LA and that's a conservative estimate.
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Jan 25, 2014 20:44
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