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I'm worried that the whole thing about the movie might be an allegory for the current Monobear murdering the cast of DR1 in order to control the island; we had Togami, Naegi, Kirigiri, Toko, Asahina, and Hagakure survive. Togami was murdered in the first trial of this game. Leaving five, killing the scarecrow, the tinman, and the lion leaves just two. Which could be Monobear and Monomi as the DR1 survivors.
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Feb 22, 2014 19:11
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Picking up on my previous point about the blood on the slippers and ladder... While it's possible these two things are unrelated, it seems too convenient a coincidence to think that. The positioning could certainly indicate that Ibuki really did kill herself. I see two, equally puzzling possibilities as to what those clues might mean: 1) Ibuki really was ordered to kill herself, and walked through Saionji's blood on her way to the ladder. The killer must have been in a hurry, or they wouldn't have missed the blood on her slippers and on the ladder. The killer was careful to try and wipe up the blood left behind from killing Saionji, and if the purpose of the hanging was to make people think 'Oh, she was hung so Ibuki died first', leaving the blood behind was a pretty massive fuckup. Perhaps this means the video was both real, and live? At the very least, live or recorded, we know someone else was present to send the call and blow out the candle. If the killer was in the club when Hinata got that incoming call, it could not reasonably have been someone from the hospital. For some reason, after sending the video and confirming Hinata was on his way, they removed the camera and hid or fled, only leaving behind the broken monitor. More on this later... 2) The killer planted the bloody slippers and even marked the ladder with blood. Now this seems really odd. If the purpose of hanging Ibuki was to make it look like a copycat murder, why would you intentionally plant evidence proving otherwise? But... what if the murder only needed to look like a copycat crime? That is to say, what if the murderer wanted the fact that it wasn't really a copycat crime to come to light? What do they have to gain by this? Are they trying to frame someone by building an association between the movie and the murders? Raenir Salazar posted:I'm worried that the whole thing about the movie might be an allegory for the current Monobear murdering the cast of DR1 The characters in the movie are allegories of the people involved in this crime. It even pointed out two of them- Ibuki was the Scarecrow (Fever made her do whatever she was told, like hang herself), and Saionji was the Cowardly Lion (as soon as the fever broke out she started demanding everyone be quarantined, avoided everyone etc). After the last case, I'd have to say that Mahiru was almost certainly the Tin Man. Hell, the killer even broke a camera in her place, making sure not to break it until after the Hinata saw Ibuki dead, to fill out the quota of victims and the correct order. And, of course, that puts Mikan in the role of Monobear. This kind of dovetails with what I wrote above in option 2- did the killer create a false copycat crime in order to create this kind of association in our minds? Or, is everything as it seems, and there is some other, perfectly innocent (relatively speaking) explanation for how Ibuki got the blood on her slippers and the ladder? ApplesandOranges posted:While I don't disagree it might come into play, the issue is that it was optional dialogue - Hinata could have not talked to Saionji at all. It might be important as a reveal of what Saionji was doing, but I'd rather that optional dialogue not play a major part in the case. Just a guess, but it's probably something that would have been explored in more depth during free time if we hung out with Saionji enough times. While a camera did come into play during this case, it's not the sort she was probably looking for and is likely just coincidental.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:14
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Knicknevin posted:Perhaps this means the video was both real, and live? Two problems: First, the ladder in the video doesn't have a bloodstain on it, so if it's the same ladder that we see in the club (which, to remind, it doesn't have to be since two stepladders are missing from the storage room), the bloodstain would have to have gotten on there in the scant few minutes between Hinata seeing the footage and entering the club. Second, if it was real, then there would be no need to blow out the candle prior to seeing the actual suicide; just show Ibuki hanging herself and erase all doubt as to how she died. Edit: I should say that I think the most likely reason the blood got on her slippers is the killer did order Ibuki to climb the stepladder and put her neck in the noose, but that the killer had to raise the lighting rig themselves to actually kill her. Knicknevin posted:That is to say, what if the murderer wanted the fact that it wasn't really a copycat crime to come to light? [...] The characters in the movie are allegories of the people involved in this crime. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest this Princess Bride-esque next-leveling is required, and I doubt this plot could take any more convoluting. Besides which, we still don't have the foggiest why any of this is necessary. Does it matter in what order they died? We've been looking at this thing from a lot of angles by now, and nothing makes more sense no matter what order you assume the killings took place in. To say that the seemingly pointless effort to confuse the order of deaths is just a ruse to cover up the equally pointless fact that the order of deaths is actually what it seemed to be all along... I mean, it's all pretty incredible. It would take a lot for me to believe it, is what I'm saying. Anyway, about allegories... it works for Ibuki, but only tenuously for Saionji. It's a much better fit for Owari, and the heartless tin-man could possibly fit Komaeda, though I admit it's a stretch; Ugh, there's still so much that doesn't make sense about this case. So many things the killer did that seem to serve no purpose. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 00:33
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Two problems: First, the ladder in the video doesn't have a bloodstain on it, Well, one of my other theories is that the blood got there when Ibuki kicked out the ladder. And the other is that the blood was placed there intentionally after she was hung. So... quote:Second, if it was real, then there would be no need to blow out the candle prior to seeing the actual suicide; just show Ibuki hanging herself and erase all doubt as to how she died. I think the point here was to get Hinata to rush out and run directly to the club. If he saw Ibuki kill herself he would have probably run upstairs to get Mikan before anything else. And whether she's being framed or not, the killer doesn't want this: If she was staging the video upstairs Hinata would literally walk in on it, and if she's being framed he gives her an alibi. By creating an imminent threat, Hinata can only go dashing to the club praying that he gets there in time. Any other action might cost Ibuki her life. quote:Does it matter in what order they died? Well, if the intent is to create the illusion of this being a copycat murder, then the killer at least needs to create the appearance of trying to obey the order from the movie. quote:Ugh, there's still so much that doesn't make sense about this case. So many things the killer did that seem to serve no purpose. That's why I think there is, as you put it, some Princess Bride-esque next-level scheming at work here. Either the killer in this case literally outsmarted themselves, Celes style, or else some next level poo poo is going on and it's only being made to appear that way. And to meta game a bit, since we already had a 'killer whose overly elaborate multiple homicide scheme blew up in their face' in the same chapter of the first game, I'd like to think that this time around it's just being made to appear the same as Celes' plot, but beneath the surface something else is lurking. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 01:24
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Knicknevin posted:Well, if the intent is to create the illusion of this being a copycat murder, then the killer at least needs to create the appearance of trying to obey the order from the movie. I wonder about the movie. People have said Mio's supposed to be standing in for the lion, but I'm not so sure. I think the three victims of Despair Fever are the scarecrow, the (crybaby) cowardly lion, and the (liar) tin man. ...I wonder if that's what Monomi was trying to say when Kuzuryuu cut her off.
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Feb 25, 2014 15:39
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I think people are trying to read too much into the movie (I also thought the same of the game). The thing to keep in mind is that Monobear made the movie, but he didn't commit to the murders. What matters about the movie is less what's actually in it, and more how people will react to it. And unless the murderer is completely insane, I don't see how this movie could have influenced their choices in any way except a cover-up. In other words, maybe Monobear intended them to represent so-and-so, but it does not and cannot matter because it's not actually important. Edit: For the record, I think Sonia is most likely to be completely insane. Clarste fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 18:30
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Okay, fair enough. We can't really know what Monobear has in mind when he makes up his 'motives', so we can't really read too deeply into the movie. But... in the first game at least, every motive was pretty... tailor made. You can't help but feel like Junko, having spent two years getting to know everyone and learning their secrets, knew exactly what buttons to push and who would spring into action when they were. I feel like this game is the same. Each of the motives connects to the pasts of the people in question: Hanamura's worry for his mom, the murder of Kuzuryuu's sister and the associated coverup, and now... what exactly? To me it looks like it's supposed to be a history of someone, probably Mikan, betraying each of her friends in turn, on a quest to... grift old people for money and valuables? (Hey, in-home caregivers grab anything not nailed down if you don't find a trustworthy one) I can't agree that the characters in the movie are supposed to coincide with the fever victims since the movie came out days before the fever. Granted, Monobear might have predetermined who would be infected somehow, but that smacks of a level of meddling that he doesn't usually indulge in unless he's trying to get someone specific killed (like Kirigiri). Well, regardless of what the movie is supposed to be telling us the killer seems to be trying to make us interpret it as I said above. Given who our primary suspect is, and who the victims are, and that symbolically destroyed camera (what other point of breaking it is there? It's not like it being broken changes anything), I just can't help but feel like this case is going to tie in closely with the previous one.
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Feb 25, 2014 23:10
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I wouldn't put it past Monobear to ensure the right people got infected, i.e. the people he felt would create maximum havoc. But nevertheless I think it's more likely that the movie was designed to provoke some particular person into action, much like the arcade game in a previous case. To most viewers, the movie comes across as a banal puppet show devoid of any meaning or content, other than to stroke Monobear's ego. But maybe to the right person, the movie has a hidden meaning, and whatever that is, it may have made that person sweat and decide to start killing, either because the movie revealed something that incensed them, or because they want to keep something hidden. Maybe one of them has killed before, in the manners shown in the movie? That would make them very nervous indeed, but I'm not sure why it would make them target anyone for killing, unless they suspected that person knew, too. Maybe there's another secret connection between two characters. Like, what if Saionji saw the movie, saw similarities to something in her past, and confronted the culprit with it? Maybe that's why she needed a camera - hoping to coax a confession out of that someone and record it? Instead, she gets a knife to the jugular, and the culprit ends up having to stage an elaborate coverup. Heck, Saionji could have been dead for days for all we know.
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Feb 26, 2014 08:49
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Saionji confronting someone over a murder in their past is a little too close to the situation from last trial for comfort. It's a nice theory to give her a non-murder motive of leaving her room, don't get me wrong. But, especially considering what happened to Koizumi and Saionji's mindset up until she died, performing the same act that got her best friend killed was probably not high up on her To Do list. If we had had different evidence during this investigation, you could have maybe put out the idea that this quarantine situation was in part some kind of stake out/sting operation planned by Saionji --she's actually sick of killing, sick of trials, so she tries to work out a situation with cameras that oust killers before or during their dirty deeds-- but she would have had to have been alot more active--and noticed as being such by the others-- for the player to try to pick up on anything like that. But... regarding your other question of how long she's been dead... Unless we get clues that Kuzuryuu's been up to no good and his wounds started opening up again, Ibuki was around Saionji's corpse before the blood dried; some of it's on her sandals. That means she died on the same night as Ibuki, IE the third night of the quarantine, in the same location. We really need to search that drat hospital; the suicide video really, really has to be faked because of Hinata's actions after leaving Nagito's bedroom.
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Feb 26, 2014 16:20
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Whoops, I'm posting a little late, but I've finally now just had time to catch up. I'm not sure anyone has ever talked about this before, but, jokingly, I had to ask myself, "What if to graduate from Hope's Peak, they have to go through this as a "last test" sort of thing?" As in, the higher ups pull the soon-to-be graduates into this little game of theirs (they'd have the means and the resources, considering the kind of special students they've helped hone and train, so that's really not a problem) and it's basically, the strongest survive and are allowed to graduate because they were talented enough to make it through something so awful. That they're obviously so full of strength and hope that they're allowed to leave because they're the kind of person Hope's Peak needs. The kind of student that will have fame and glory and bring a good name to the school, blah blah. Doesn't really explain the first game, but I really have no idea why the second game would be like this, except for the few "hope rehab" theories I've read. Eh, mine's just a very bizarre and out there theory that I like to muse about from time to time.
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Mar 7, 2014 21:41
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Probably jumping the gun but this LP's still going on right? I kinda missed if it was stopping due to the official translation or not.
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Mar 7, 2014 22:05
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Probably jumping the gun but this LP's still going on right? I kinda missed if it was stopping due to the official translation or not. They said that they would at least finish this chapter but otherwise there's no solid answer.
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Mar 7, 2014 22:06
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I don't want to speak too much in his place, but Oren's been pretty busy with his own life stuff. 
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Mar 7, 2014 23:08
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HelloWinter posted:I don't want to speak too much in his place, but Oren's been pretty busy with his own life stuff. I'd be a shame, though, you guys have been pulling some seriously awesome work. Lesbighost posted:Whoops, I'm posting a little late, but I've finally now just had time to catch up. Eh, I don't believe you could make most of each Hope's Peak's promotions vanish without having some rather serous eyebrows raised.
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Mar 8, 2014 02:08
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Probably jumping the gun but this LP's still going on right? I kinda missed if it was stopping due to the official translation or not. Well, I suppose if they do stop the LP, we'd only have to wait until this fall for the game to come out. That's a shaky estimate at best, considering most games always get pushed back to a different release date than the original that was set. Fingers crossed oren can continue, but, eh, the man has a life, so it's understandable if he decides to stop the LP... especially considering the game is getting localized.
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Mar 8, 2014 02:29
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HelloWinter posted:I don't want to speak too much in his place, but Oren's been pretty busy with his own life stuff. Oh it's fine! Just haven't seen this on the front page in awhile and when it was up earlier I just wanted to make sure 
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Mar 8, 2014 07:06
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I'm doing my best to work on the update this weekend - for what it's worth, it's a long one (about two regular updates long), going all the way through the rest of the investigation part.
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Mar 8, 2014 07:10
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orenronen posted:I'm doing my best to work on the update this weekend - for what it's worth, it's a long one (about two regular updates long), going all the way through the rest of the investigation part. Is it because you noticed both prior investigations were 5 parts and really really wanted to keep the trend?
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Mar 8, 2014 07:16
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alcharagia posted:Is it because you noticed both prior investigations were 5 parts and really really wanted to keep the trend? It's also possible that there weren't any good cutoff points where the update could be split before the end of the investigation. Still, looking forward to seeing this chapter through.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:36
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I'm really excited for the next update. With all the speculating we've done, I have to feel like the last bit of investigation should offer up something that might make it possible to zero in on a single hypothesis as the most likely. Right now it's all over the place and everything seems stupid.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:14
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Right now it's all over the place and everything seems stupid. My only real solid take on the whole thing is that the killer is either setting someone up, or else they are totally insane and don't even care about getting away with it, and this whole routine is just for their own amusement. But that feels just a bit too... Junko. The killer in this case just did way, way, way too much pointless or self destructive poo poo for this to feel legitimate. Unless the mastermind in this game is going down already. Which would be... interesting, to say the least. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a second person on the island being quite THAT crazy.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:49
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Knicknevin posted:My only real solid take on the whole thing is that the killer is either setting someone up, or else they are totally insane and don't even care about getting away with it, and this whole routine is just for their own amusement. But that feels just a bit too... Junko. From the way Komaeda reacted, and my guess is that he's telling the truth in this matter, the main thing is that the culprit is motivated by despair and not by hope. We also know that Komaeda has a really loose definition of hope which appears to include something along the lines of "a person who despairs about the situation they're in, weakens under the pressure, and just wants to get off the island" if Hanamura can be taken as a guide. Which means that we've got to be dealing with something dramatic and out of the ordinary here. The options I can currently imagine for the culprit are (a) Junko-style Despair for amusement (b) someone who's despairing so much they don't even expect or want to get away with it and escape (if so, why the elaborate murder scene?), and (c) someone who committed at least the first murder by accident rather than design. But there must be other options. I still don't understand how Komaeda was instantly able to guess the culprit's motivation just from looking at the scene, unless he had already solved the case, pinpointed the culprit, and worked out the motivation from there.
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Mar 8, 2014 22:21
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I suspect Komaeda has figured everything out, or he wouldn't have said anything. But as I said before, I believe the reason he called this a murder of despair is that whoever's doing this is not doing it based on love or ideals. Hanamura and Peko both, essentially, killed for love. Whoever murdered Ibuki and Saonji did so from far darker motivations. And no, it's not a Junko-type thing. Several ideas. 1. Vengeance 2. Paranoia 3. Pure Calculated Survival. I like the third a lot. The killer selected easy targets, because they wanted off the island, believing its dangers were such that they could no longer be guaranteed survival any longer should they fail to act, and letting their morality fall by the wayside. They wanted the murders to look personal, by tying them to the contents of the movie. They went to great lengths to obfuscate almost everything about the murders. I would not be surprised if there's a frame job in place on someone. This was pretty much premeditated by someone who set out deliberately to kill at least one person for no other reason than to leave the island. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it until contradictory evidence presents itself. 
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Mar 8, 2014 23:02
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Van Dine posted:I still don't understand how Komaeda was instantly able to guess the culprit's motivation just from looking at the scene, unless he had already solved the case, pinpointed the culprit, and worked out the motivation from there. You know, what's bugged me, probably the most out of everything: There seems to have been no effort made to frame anyone for this crime. Or if there is, we've not seen the evidence of it yet- unless my theory about Mikan being subtly framed actually holds water. Like, when Celes carried out her crazy plot, she made considerable effort to cast suspicion onto Hagakure. Granted, she overdid it and he was effectively cleared even before the trial, but the point is that an effort was made. Clues were left out, scattered about for Naegi to find, all to build a case against Hagakure. But in this case, it's like the killer doesn't even care about casting blame. Or, the killer wants there to be no real suspects at all. We can't even suspect Ibuki, who could have easily been blamed and had this wrapped up as a murder/suicide, because the killer went out of their way to give her an alibi. Why? No, really. Why? I can't think of any motive to do this other than to just maximize the group's despair and force them to make a hasty or unclear decision in the trial. And between Monobear and whoever is behind him, and Komaeda (who would say 'it's all so you can overcome this despair in the name of an even greater hope' or some poo poo), I'm finding the idea of there being a third person who'd do something like that in the group a rather hard pill to swallow.
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Mar 9, 2014 04:38
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Knicknevin posted:We can't even suspect Ibuki, who could have easily been blamed and had this wrapped up as a murder/suicide, because the killer went out of their way to give her an alibi. Why? No, really. Why? Well, for the culprit the most dangerous thing of all is the truth. If Ibuki did kill Saionji (even under instruction) then perhaps this bit of misdirection is just one more thing that needs solving. If nothing makes sense, how could the culprit possibly lose? Hell, there's even the possibility that the culprit could help to 'solve' the Saionji murder while framing someone else for Ibuki's murder. It's still to early to tell but all things considered making sure the crime scene is one big clusterfuck isn't a completely terrible strategy.
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Mar 9, 2014 05:09
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 Sorry to have kept you waiting. Let's investigate the hospital!  Ikoroshia  Hey... you were the one who made those camera sets, weren’t you?  So what? S’not like I put any hidden contraptions in ‘em... What, you think I’m the culprit?! You found them at that strange shopping district, didn't you? I remember there being mountains of gadgets over there...  Yeah. Had to modify ‘em a bit, though. But, what if there were other sets there too? Would someone be able to use a third set to communicate with the hospital?  No way. Impossible. See, the camera and the monitor come in a set and are used together. Whatever the hospital camera shoots gets displayed on the hospital monitor... And whatever the music club camera shoots gets displayed on the music club camera. That's all. ‘Course, that on its own’s not much of a communications setup... so I switched the cameras between the sets. And that's why we could see footage from the hospital at the music club, and vice versa, right? Both devices in the pair are keyed with unique ID numbers that can’t be changed... they use ‘em to recognize each other. So, even if you brought in a third camera, say, you still wouldn't be able to send footage to either monitor.In other words... even if there are other sets around, it would’ve been impossible to communicate with them.   ...But switching the cameras wasn’t all I did, y’know? I also extended their broadcast range. If I hadn't done that, we wouldn'ta been able to use ‘em. ...Oh, right. Good job.   It feels like it's been a long time since I was last here... even though it's really only been a couple of days.  There's a camera set on the counter. It’s useless now that the set at the music club is destroyed.   Hey, Hinata-kun. I have a question. You found Mioda-san's body in the music club, right? But, why did you go to the music club in the first place? Did you have a reason? Did you... see something on the monitor, perhaps?  Oh! I’d kinda like to know that myself. If the camera had any recording capabilities I'd probably be able to extract the footage, but it's just a cheap home model. ...Tell us what you saw, Hinata-kun. Yeah, you’re right. I did see something on the monitor... Re: Despair Syndrome It showed the music club stage. It had that black curtain hung up in the back... But... the only illumination was by candlelight. It was pretty dim. There was a rope hanging from the ceiling, and a stepladder directly under it. A...And then... Someone wearing a hospital gown with a bag over their head appeared... Their face was hidden, so I couldn't tell who it was, but now I know it was Mioda... She walked straight to the stepladder, and then, without even hesitating... ...She climbed it. Then, she took the rope in her hand... ............ ...And that's all I saw. The candle must have gotten blown out at that time. The screen suddenly turned black, and I couldn't see what was going on anymore. Ikoroshia Yeah, that’d happen if the candle was the only light in the place... Y’know, some newer security cameras come with infra-red vision, so they can still see in the dark... ...But these ones’re pretty old. I don’t think they have that...  ...Ah! Hold it right there! Did you say you couldn't tell the bag person was Mioda-san back then? Yeah... So, you had no clue who it was, but since it seemed like they were about to commit suicide... ...You ran all the way to the music club to try and stop them. ...I didn't make it in time, though.  Still... if she climbed the stepladder all on her own... That’d... make it a suicide, right? I mean... she hanged herself, didn’t she?Did Mioda... really commit suicide?  What do you think, Nanami? ............ Are you absolutely sure Mioda-san climbed the ladder on her own? Yeah, I'm sure. In that case... ............ Hmm... Hmmmmmmmmmm... Hey, you don't have to think about it so long. If you don't know, just come out and say it. Yeah, he's right. I don’t think we can really make any conclusions right now.  Feh! ............ Oh, I just remembered. I wanted to investigate the conference room on the second floor. ...I'll be back soon.   ...’Sup with her...? Just takin’ off like that all of a sudden...Did she mention the conference room? What's so important over there? Also... was I just imagining it, or... ...Did she just get a little miffed at us?  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Footage from security camera Let's move beyond the reception area and into the hospital.   Sigh... Finally, I feel like my old self again...  Hinata! Come help me with my rehabilitation! If you win, I'll let you touch my boobs! I... think I'll pass.I'm glad she’s alright... but I kinda hope the aftereffects stick around a little while longer. ...Not that I’d dare say that out loud, of course. By the way, what are you doing here?  See, I never really got sick or injured before, so I had no idea, but...  Those hospital gowns are super-comfy! So, I thought I'd come back and get one! Wait... are you going to be wearing only hospital gowns from now on?  Well, that was the plan, but it seems they're all gone. There was one assigned to each hospital room, see? So I thought the one from the empty room would be available, but... ...It wasn't there?  Yeah, exactly. Mioda died in hers, so all I found was Komaeda's used one. Maybe I should use that one! They’re one-size-fits-all, after all! ...Wait. What about the one you were wearing?  Wear the same clothes I just took off? That’s icky!Um... Surely it’s not as bad as wearing someone else’s unwashed clothes? Oh well. I can’t stay here much longer. I left Tsumiki all alone in the music club! Dammit, I should get back over there! I think putting Owari in charge of guarding the crime scene might’ve been a mistake. It’s a good thing I already finished investigating over there...  There's nothing helpful in the patient rooms, so let's move into the second floor. We haven't really explored it until now. And here's a map we haven't seen yet.  There are two rooms we can investigate on this floor. This is the door to the rest ward we've been in before. It's the smaller room, on the map's bottom left corner. This... isn't a regular hospital room. It must have been a resting ward.Even so, there are medical instruments thrown around everywhere. It's more like a storage room than a lounge... If this is where the hospital staff are supposed to rest, it must be a really tough job. Still... if the hospital has a room like this... that’s more evidence that this place used to be inhabited. Seriously... what's up with these islands?  There's a bed here... It looks like the ones in the hospital rooms, but I guess this one is meant for resting. No time for rest right now, though. Back to the investigation.  Medical instruments, nursing care goods, and boxes of what look like medicine are lying around. Seems this room was also used for storage. ...But, nothing here looks relevant to the investigation. Onto the second room. This is the larger one, on the map's upper left corner. Music fades out ............What the hell...? It's dark. I can't see anything. Um... Where's the light switch...? ...Don't turn it on. ...Huh? N...Nanami? Are you in here? ...If you turn the light on, you're going to see me... exposed. It's embarrassing. E...Exposed...?! Hey, Hinata-kun... ...You may turn on the light, but first you have to rip both your eyes out. ...So, how about it? Are you gonna rip them out? Why would I?! ............ Sigh. Too bad. ...So much for my practical joke.Then, the next second, I heard the sound of a curtain being pulled...  ...And a strong, bright light burned painfully through my eyeballs. Somehow, I managed to squint my eyes and get used to the light...  Ikoroshia...And saw Nanami, who had just pulled back the curtain that was covering the windows.   ...Surprised? "Surprised" isn’t the right word... More like... I don’t have a clue what just happened.  Well, I do. ...So? The curtain in this conference room is light-resistant. There's a projector here... so they must have fussed over getting the place dark. See? It's a black, light-resistant curtain, and it reaches all the way down to the floor. A light-resistant curtain, huh? So that's why it was pitch-black in here. But... why does that matter? ............ ...Not telling. I'm still investigating.She did get a little miffed back there, didn't she. Okay... But, what about all those things you said? You know, about how it's embarrassing and something about a practical joke...? Oh. I was just bullying you.Yep. Totally miffed. And acting like a kindergarten kid.  Anyway, I guess that's it for the hospital investigation.I should go somewhere else. Hinata may think so, but there are a few things to examine in this room. Most importantly, it's very difficult to spot, but there's something on the ceiling.  It's difficult to spot even in the closeup, but that's another Hidden Monobear!  Folding desks. They probably use them when there's a meeting in this room. I can't say they’re very interesting, though.  That's a fairly big window... It makes the room feel larger than it is.   There's a projector here. Well, this is a meeting room so it's not unusual. I don't think this would be helpful for the investigation, though. I should look somewhere else.  So, that's the light-resistant curtain. That's why it was so dark in here. And now we're really done with the hospital. There are still places to investigate, though! Now I think about it... I don’t think I’ve ever seen the inside of one of these rooms. I don't even know where Saionji's room is. ...I guess the quickest way is just to ask someone.    ...I know you're here. Show yourself! ...Huh? Are you talking about me? Hmhmhm... Did you really think you could hide from me?...No? Um... Can you tell me which room is Saionji’s?  You will find what you seek beyond the middle door... over there. But be warned... Within that portal lie sights that can change a man... Be sure to pray to your loved ones before you enter... and consider preparing a change of underwear. Heh heh heh...I'd love to know how his parents and teachers deal with all this.    Hey, Hinata... I have one more question for you. When you first found Mioda's body, what was it like? It was just like it was when you got back there with me. She was hanging on a rope from the lighting rig. When I first found her, there was no announcement, though. That's why I ran out to tell everyone. Then, I met Nanami right here at the motel, and when we started going back to the club...  ...That's when you bumped into Tsumiki and me, huh. Then we all went back to the club, but for some reason the door wouldn't open. We had no choice but to open it with force... And found that while you were gone Saionji was also killed. Yeah, exactly. Now, here's the important part. When you came to the motel, did you encounter anyone other than Nanami? Hmm, let's see... Are you deaf?! I found a body!! A...A...A...A body...? KYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! You lie... It is the work of the fever - the strain that renders your every word a falsehood. It has claimed you too! Yeah, Tanaka and Monomi were also here. But... you didn't see Souda or Sonia anywhere? Are you saying... one of them did it? Well, think about when Saionji was killed. It must've been sometime after you found Mioda's body, and before we broke into the club. The people whose whereabouts are a mystery during that time are the most suspicious, naturally. I guess you're right, but... By the way, I don't think I’ve told you my alibi yet. This morning, I went to the hospital right after Monobear's morning announcement woke me up. When I got there, I found Tsumiki standing outside freaking out. When I asked her what was going on, she told me Mioda was missing. That's when you two split up and went searching for her, right? Yeah. I went circling the island, and when I got to the motel I found the rest of you. Did you meet anyone while circling the island? No. I went through the movie theatre and the shopping district, but there was no one there.  Well, I guess that means I don't really have an alibi either. But, you've got the wrong idea if you think I'm suspicious. The time Tsumiki and I were searching separately doesn't really amount to much...  No one would be able to kill Saionji, let alone tape her to the pillar in such a short time.Was it even really possible to do all that during the time I was away from the club? Still... that's what happened. Saionji was killed, and we found her body.   What the hell...? Do you still suspect me?  Well, I'm used to it. Not much I can do about it, I guess...  Don't worry, though. You won’t get dismembered and buried in concrete just because of suspicions.That’s... reassuring. I think.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Kuzuryuu's Testimony   * rattle rattle * The door seems to be locked, but...  I have the key Saionji had hidden in her kimono. And I’m pretty sure... * click * ...So this is the key to her room....Okay. Let's see what's inside.  So this is where Saionji was living... She was only here for a couple of days, so it doesn’t really feel... lived in. It's... kinda sad.   ...Oh? Was this room open? No... I used the key that was in Saionji's kimono to open it.  Oh... I see... ............ ...What's wrong? No, it's nothing... Only... I think this may be my fault. I can't help but feel that way...Her fault? What does she mean? Before we ask her, let's check out the room. We can start by twisting the camera to the left, which reveals...  The final Hidden Monobear for this chapter! As a bonus, an achievement for discovering half of the game's Hidden Monobears.  There's a mirror here, but... it’s tiny. And covered in rust. Hardly even worth calling it a mirror, really.   Looks like the bed’s been made...I guess she wasn’t taken while she was sleeping then.  After we came to this motel, Saionji-san locked herself in this room. Was she so scared of despair fever that she avoided the rest of you, too? Yes... At least, that was what she said, but... ...I think there was something else. Something else? What other reason could she have?  ...Her wardrobe. Her... what? Um... yesterday, I came here trying to call her out. She’d been locked in here for so long, I thought she ought to at least come outside for some air... The door to her room was always locked, but for some reason I found it open. So... I happened to see her. Re: Desire for Execution She was in tears, struggling with her obi. She had taken a shower - I suppose she was sick of smelling bad - but it looked like she was having trouble tying her obi afterward... I think that without Koizumi-san to help her... she was still very bad at it. So... she didn't come out of her room because she couldn't change her clothes...? You may think an obi is not a big deal, but for her it was serious problem. Saionji-san said that Koizumi-san taught her how to tie her obi. Koizumi-san was kind to her and showed her how to do it herself... That's why... she desperately wanted to be able to tie her obi all on her own. I'm sure... she wouldn't have been able to forgive herself if she couldn't do it. And without even understanding her feelings, I... ...What did you do? ............   S...Saionji-san... Do you, perhaps, find it difficult to put your kimono on? W...What are you talking about, you idiot?! It's not a problem at all! I mean... Big sis Koizumi taught me how to do it. I...I can do it on my own now. Um... in the case, how about trying to do it in front of a mirror? There was a big one in the music club's storage room, wasn't there? If you try it in front of a mirror, I'm sure it will be easy for you. Besides... staying inside your room all day isn't good for your health... She... pushed me out of the room back then, but...  Perhaps... she took what I said to heart, and...! ...And went to the music club to try and put her kimono on?That... does sound plausible. Besides... she locked her room and stuffed the key inside her kimono... None of that makes any sense if she was taken against her will. ...So she had to have gone out on her own! Did you tell this to anyone else before the murders? Or... did someone overhear your conversation...? No... I haven't told it to anyone until now, and I don't think anyone was eavesdropping.No one knew...? So... how did the culprit know Saionji would be at the music club? ............Something... isn't right.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Sonia's testimony  Ikoroshia I don't think there's anything else suspicious in this room...Nothing is out of place, and there are no signs of a forcible kidnapping. So, no hints over here. Well, can't be helped, I guess...* ding dong ding dong *    Yoo-hoo! How are you bastards doing?! This is Monobear! Feeling great! You know? Our school trial is about to start! So, come join me at the usual place. Gather at Monobear Rock, ASAP! Upupu, see you soon! Re: Despair-Syndrome I guess it's time... ............So it's that time again. We have to go back to that place... ...Now's not the time to get scared. I have to find out why Mioda and Saionji are dead... ...I have no choice! Re: Despair SyndromeAfter hearing Monobear's announcement, everyone gathered in front of Monobear rock. And then...  Re: Mr. Monobear's Lesson You're all here! You bastards really can't wait to get to court, can you! Miss Monomi's Practice Lesson You fiend! Wait just one second!!  You again? You're just here to play the role of my dimwitted sister, so don't interfere. I'm not dimwitted!  I demand an answer! What happened to Nidai-kun?!  Oh, I see. You just came here to avenge him, huh?  Avenge?! You're talking as if he's dead!!  "As if", you say? ...Oops, I almost said too much again. Anyway, unfortunately, Nidai-kun won’t be able to join us for today's proceedings. Please understand.  W...Well, then! I shall be going up ahead! Wait! Don’t just wun away!! Re: Despair Syndrome D...Did you all hear that, guys...?  Don't worry... No way's Nidai's dead. He's... just trying to upset us.  Yeah, that's right. There's not even a slight chance that he's dead.  Yep. We should worry about our current situation instead.  If things don't go right, it’ll be all of our lives on the line, not just Nidai-kun's.  H...How can you be so cheerful...?! Hmmm... That's a very good question. I guess I'm just excited that I'm about to see poetic justice in action.  What... are you talking about?  You'll figure it out before long. So... Let's go. Yeah! Let's get this over with! Yeah... Let's.   Uyu... I couldn't be of any help this time... I couldn't even tell you what their times of death were... I'm sorry for being such useless trash...  It... really was my fault that Saionji-san is dead.  But if so... I shall certainly reveal the truth behind these murders! Let’s go!   ............ Let's go. We don't have time to stand here and do nothing. It may be sad, but we have to face forward... This time, we can end this.  I'm sure you know this already, but don't let Monomi fool you. Everything she says is just her trying to fool us. Or, would you rather be fooled...?  Why are we still here? Let's get this over with, already! I wanna be back here when ol' man Nidai gets back!   What the hell were they talking about? Is Nidai really... Monobear's just trying to confuse us... Just... try to concentrate on the trial. Yeah, I know...   Hmph. The appointed hour draws near...  Long have I kept my true power sealed... but if unleashing it will help avenge our fallen comrades, then so be it.   Just as I thought, these murders are... ...Oops. I think I'll continue this thought when we're in court, Hinata-kun.Dammit. Just when I thought he couldn't get any worse...     We stepped onto the escalator, heading into Monobear Rock's big open mouth... That was when it sunk in... There were fewer people next to me than ever before. But now's not the time to get depressed. If I lose sight of what's going on, I won’t be able to do what must be done. Once everyone was inside Monobear's big mouth...  Music stopsThe elevator began to descend deep underground, as it always had. No one spoke a word. There was no sound, except for the elevator, going deeper and deeper down.  Down and down, deeper and deeper... until finally, it stopped. The door opened slowly, as if teasing us. The light flowing in from the other side encroached on the darkness inside the elevator. And then... I stood again inside the courtroom.  Ocean Breeze Dead End  Oh, my. The number of empty seats have certainly increased. So much open space!  Two of my students died together... And Nidai-kun is also gone...  Is Nidai-kun weally not participating?! If he's alive, call him over! Oh, aren't you tired of that already? How could I be?!  Well, then. Let's begin!  Another fun school trial starts now! Please sit back and enjoy it to the very end!! Music fades outAnd so... the curtain opened on the third school trial.  Re: Despair-Syndrome"Super High-school Level Light Music Club Member" Ibuki Mioda... She may have been a little loud, but she always knew how to set the mood. When I spent time with her... All my troubles and worries flew away.  "Super High-school Level Classical Dancer" Hiyoko Saionji... In spite of her cute face, she was selfish and rude. And yet... she tried to change. After Koizumi's death she really did try to improve herself. The culprit who killed our two dear friends... is among us.  Tropical DespairAs always... I find it difficult to believe, but...  But... whether I believe it or not, the truth remains.  If we don't discover that truth... We can never escape from this hell. And so... I must find it. For myself... For the sake of my friends... And for the sake of the dead. And so, it begins... A school trial where hope and despair swirl together. It starts now.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:27
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Well that confirms a lot of suspicions, the missing hospital gown being the smoking gun. May I suggest that the projector was used to play back a recorded video as a communicator transmission? I don’t know where they would get a camcorder, except that I think Saionji was looking for a camera earlier in the chapter, which may prove to be the answer. Tsumiki would have to be in on such a scheme. Kuzuryuu is the obvious choice of accomplice, and it fits Komaeda’s quip about “poetic justice”. I don’t know what to make of Nevermind’s reveal, except that it explains how Saionji might leave the room voluntarily. I’m surprised we didn’t find out anything more about the goo on the club door.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:54
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And here we go.orenronen posted:As always... I find it difficult to believe, but... Nice touch with Nidai's portrait there. Since his fate is still uncertain at the moment, his picture is grayed out rather than blue(for the living) or red(for the deceased). It'd be an interesting twist if he turned out to be the culprit, but there isn't really any evidence pointing in that direction. It would just be too much of a swerve at this point.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:56
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I really love what they do with those graphics before the trial starts. Really hits how many of them are gone.
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Mar 19, 2014 08:01
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Something is seriously suspicious about Monobear being coy about Nidai for some reason. I think for sure the recording took place in the conference room that Nanami was exploring and she's determined that. I believe its implied they can't "record" the footage to be played back later, meaning this wasn't pre-recorded. However its possible a second set was found that recorded the conference room while displaying it in the lobby. They're close enough they don't need extended range and don't need swapped cameras for 2 way communication; and then smash the original or both sets. I'm not sure if there is a need for their to be a second set, but its a possible response to "Well if there's a second set and their range wasn't modified then how could they be used HUH!?" to which the answer is "The second set was used in the hospital". So the timing of the fake murder is exactly when Hinata saw it. So it remains to be determined if the actual murders were done at that time, which is what the raised temperature is meant to obscure, they died perhaps an hour or two before Hinata saw the broadcast and the fake wallpaper was torn down when he went to the hotel and back and the door used glue to make it seem like its a locked room mystery with the drum sticks pre broken and planted. Komaeda doesn't seem to be involved because of his dialogue and if we assume he was genuinely knocked out of action. Both Tsumiki and Kuzuryuu seem the most suspicious followed by Sonia considering the red flags just raised. Gundam I refuse to believe did it, there's nothing in particularly implying Souda unless he's lied about virtually everything, Nanami has nothing implying her and she's been the most helpful as per usual. Nidai, Akane and Komaeda were out of action or accounted for in some way. I'm not really sure how to narrow it down further from there without more thought, this investigation actually seemed kinda short? Also Nanami can be really mean when she wants to be! 
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Mar 19, 2014 08:01
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think for sure the recording took place in the conference room that Nanami was exploring and she's determined that. I believe its implied they can't "record" the footage to be played back later, meaning this wasn't pre-recorded. However its possible a second set was found that recorded the conference room while displaying it in the lobby. They're close enough they don't need extended range and don't need swapped cameras for 2 way communication; and then smash the original or both sets. If you get a third set, you can smash it and leave it in the club while using the original set for the transmission. Smashing the decoy set makes it so that no one can try to use it and discover it’s not paired with the one in the hospital. In fact, I can’t think of any other good reason to smash it.
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Mar 19, 2014 08:08
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All signs seem to point towards Kuzuryuu or Mikan, huh? The door to the club was rigged in a way to throw suspicion off those who first entered it by making it look like the culprit was still inside, and now it looks like the culprit filmed the initial video in the hospital to try and confuse the time of death. Given that the hospital was under quarantine and everyone else was out with Despair Fever, Kuzuryuu or Mikan seem to be the only possibilities. There's an outside chance it's a double bluff, and someone from outside sneaked into the hospital to film the scene and stole the extra gown, but there isn't much that points to that yet. Maybe the line about two Miodas, but that could as easily be Despair Fever talking. I'm curious about what's up with Komaeda, though. He's been upset about this case, and he seems to believe this one is different than normal in a way he doesn't like. What exactly that indicates it's hard to say.
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Mar 19, 2014 08:34
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ZCKaiser posted:I'm curious about what's up with Komaeda, though. He's been upset about this case, and he seems to believe this one is different than normal in a way he doesn't like. What exactly that indicates it's hard to say. The feeling I'm getting from is this that Komaeda knows who the murderer is and more importantly knows that a murder occured for something beyond Hope because if it was Hope he'd be all for it. Which implies one of two things to me: A) The murderer was under the influence of Despair Fever or otherwise acting out of despair. B) One of the murderers (probably Saionji's) was committed by accident/unintentionally/otherwise something that wouldn't qualify as an intentional act to escape. The fact that Saionji's murder seems to contract all the alibis being set up might go along with this because all Saionji's murder does is devalue the first alibi. Based on what we got, I'm pretty comfortable in saying the murderer was Mikan. I get the feeling it sort of went like this: Mikan (maybe under Despair Fever or maybe via some motivation we haven't had explained yet) plans to kill someone. Ibuki is her target and she prepares the murder alibi (and possibly murders Ibuki in advance?) While she's setting up the crime scene Saionji wanders in, sees her, and is murdered to keep her quiet. From there there Mikan is forced to set up a fake hiding place for Saionji's body and finish the alibi setting up. Maybe she wore the gown herself (which is how the blood gets onto the shoes.) The rest is just further setting up the alibi.
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Mar 19, 2014 08:52
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I kind of feel really bad about Saionji's death if this is the truth. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's also kind of ironic that she would have been fine had she not listened to anyone and just stayed in her room.
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Mar 19, 2014 09:09
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Oh boy, my favorite thread is back in action.  So! Lots of new information here. I think we can safely say the footage was A) Live, since Souda confirmed the cameras don't have recording capabilities, and B) Filmed in the upstairs conference room, as it matches the floor, is lightproof, and out-of-the-way enough yet not cluttered like the rest ward. We also know where the hospital gown that was used in the footage came from. However, I don't buy the decoy camera theory. There is no evidence pointing towards it, and at least one piece of evidence against it: Remember when Hinata first entered the club? There was debris on the floor, but only of the receiver unit. The camera was missing and only appeared later, when Saionji's corpse was discovered. If there was a decoy set involved, the killer could have just smashed a complete set and eliminated any chance of someone detecting the shenanigans. However, I feel like we're no closer to resolving the timing difficulties. Now that we have Kuzuryuu's testimony as an evidence bullet, it seems to me we're going to have to use it to disprove the idea that Tsumiki did it. The relevant piece of information in the testimony is that the two were only separated for a short time, and there is just so much the killer would have to have done in that short timespan. By the way, where did the stray stepladder go? It's not visible in any of the pictures of the rest ward or the conference room.
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Mar 19, 2014 09:35
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Raenir Salazar posted:Something is seriously suspicious about Monobear being coy about Nidai for some reason. In theory it could just be that Monobear's keeping the characters in suspense before returning a healthy Nidai to them, or that he's dead and Monobear wants to wait for a moment where it'll cause maximum despair and derail sensible arguments in the trial. But I think you're probably right and that there's something more to it. Maybe over the course of the trial there'll be a point where the characters have "proved" that none of them there could have done it and that there were no suicides, and Monobear will try to get them to vote for Nidai. It would be quite a victory for despair if Monobear could turn the class against Nidai in Nidai's absence and get them to vote for him, especially since Nidai only got injured because he was being a good guy and trying to protect one of the others.
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Mar 19, 2014 09:59
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Investigation aside, I'm getting more suspicious about Nidai's disappearance. If there was some kind of mastermind over all the students, the pretense of taking yourself out, bazooka style and then taking yourself away for hospital treatment would be a great way to get yourself out of the game and fully oversee the whole thing. I'd rather that not be the case, since Nidai is a great character and he honestly doesn't seem composed enough to be the mastermind. That or he'd come back next chapter, everyone expects him to survive til endgame, and he gets offed quickly in a vulnerable state. Against all odds I hope he's good, alright and that he'll survive til endgame. 
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Mar 19, 2014 10:08
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:However, I feel like we're no closer to resolving the timing difficulties. Now that we have Kuzuryuu's testimony as an evidence bullet, it seems to me we're going to have to use it to disprove the idea that Tsumiki did it. The relevant piece of information in the testimony is that the two were only separated for a short time, and there is just so much the killer would have to have done in that short timespan. By the way, where did the stray stepladder go? It's not visible in any of the pictures of the rest ward or the conference room. I think it should be noted that what the evidence bullet specifically disproves is that there was enough time to kill Saionji and string up her body. The evidence we have pretty clearly points to the opposite: That Saionji was murdered and hidden beforehand. So what it disproves is that the murder occurred at that point but the murderer had to have done the 'unveil Saionji and lock the door" in the timeframe between when Hinata left and Hinata returned. That's not even up for debate.
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Mar 19, 2014 10:11
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ImpAtom posted:The feeling I'm getting from is this that Komaeda knows who the murderer is and more importantly knows that a murder occured for something beyond Hope because if it was Hope he'd be all for it. B would be interesting if it were to be the case. I had my suspicions before, and after this update I'm also fairly certain that Saionji was probably murdered due to having the misfortune of stumbling upon the killer some of his preparations. The curtains on the pillar were pretty clearly used to make it seem like her murder had just occurred, when in reality she'd been dead for awhile. Also worth noting about Komaeda: ever since he's decided there's something wrong about this case, he's been much more like his pre-reveal self. Maybe he's more stable when he has a more concrete goal or motivation?
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Mar 19, 2014 10:11
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ImpAtom posted:the murderer had to have done the 'unveil Saionji and lock the door" in the timeframe between when Hinata left and Hinata returned. That's not even up for debate. The murderer or an accomplice, yes, of course. But the question isn't whether they did it, but who did it. The dominant hypothesis right now, with additions from what we just learned, seems to be the following: 1) Saionji goes to the club to practice tying her obi in front of the mirror. 2) While Saionji is in the storage room, Tsumiki exploits Mioda's despair fever to drag her over to the club and the two begin to arrange for Mioda's apparent suicide. At this point, Tsumiki believes Saionji is still in the motel. 3) Saionji manages to tie her obi, although on her front since she was practicing with the mirror. She exits the storage room and runs straight into the crime scene in making. Alternately, someone goes into the storage room to fetch the stepladder and runs into her there; I prefer the former because of the blood on the stage. Tsumiki freaks out and slashes Saionji's throat to keep her from ruining everything. 4) Tsumiki and Mioda cover up Saionji's corpse behind the fake paper pillar. Mioda gets blood on her slippers. A patch of blood on the stage is cleaned up, though not completely, and at some point the stepladder gets blood on it. Tsumiki kills Mioda by hanging, possibly by ordering her to stand on the ladder with the noose around her neck and then raising the rig. (How exactly did blood get on the stepladder, and where was Saionji killed?) 5) Tsumiki smashes the receiver unit and takes the camera from the club, along with the remaining stepladder. She raises the temperature in the club to make determining time of death difficult. She also goes to the supermarket, grabs a heavy curtain and places it behind the dead Mioda to obscure the colorful curtain behind it, in order to make the club match the conference room. (This step could have been done earlier, while Mioda was still alive, if she needed her help to do it.) Tsumiki rigs up the fake crime scene in the conference room on the second floor, taking the hospital gown from the empty room. 6) Tsumiki crawls into bed with Hinata, and when he awakes, she points him to the lobby. Once he has left, she rushes to the conference room to stage the suicide. (Where did her bandages go? They are not visible in the video.) Hinata freaks out and runs to the club. 7) Tsumiki quickly dismantles the crime scene and hides the evidence. (Where did she hide the noose, gown and stepladder? No littering, remember.) 8) Tsumiki leaves the hospital and waits for Kuzuryuu to arrive, then puts on her little act. They split up. Meanwhile, Hinata is running to the motel and meets Gundam and Nanami. 9) Here's where things start getting strained. Tsumiki has to run back up to the conference room to fetch the camera; she brings it to the club, and smashes it, leaving the debris on the floor. She then removes the paper pillar and stashes it in the storeroom. On the way out, she plants the mysterious resin and drumstick. (Did she have time to do all this in the short time between Kuzuryuu and her splitting up and making it to the motel? What was the point of the resin and drumstick in the first place?) 10) Everyone meets up at the motel. Nanami, Tsumiki, Kuzuryuu and Hinata break back into the club and discover the crime scene. Everyone else arrives, and our investigation starts. Sounds about right? It's a plausible series of events, short of the problems with timing and hiding of evidence. E: Added a few additional unsolved questions. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 10:36
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