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GilliamYaeger posted:http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/dmc-devil-may-cry Still not good enough for Capcom: "Lets be honest they were great games (averageing in the low 80's on metacritic) but not perfect. We're now aiming to make the perfect DMC game that gets 90's" You have to remember that most reviewers play the game over the course of a few days or even just one day. So there isn't much time to properly learn a game's finer points or see if the game's depth has lasting value before the review embargo lifts. That's why we see so many publishers push corridor level design/simplified mechanics/forgiving difficulty/cinematic focus. Big budget games need to appeal to wide audience which includes game reviewers who usually don't want to be frustrated by the game. You could look at Devil May Cry 3 as a game with depth that allowed for lengthy replay value but its initial reviews suffered because quite a number of the reviewers had a hard time finishing it and some were stuck at the first boss (I'm looking at you Greg Kasavin!). With bonus royalties and potential sales tied to good scores, you see games focused tested to milk every last point. You even see some publishers have review events since the environment someone plays the game in (and the NDAs they sign) has a tremendous impact on the score they give. Anyway, some people are speculating that Ninja Theory is making a sequel to DMC with online co-op. They've been hiring people for co-op game design and network programming. Capcom said they wanted to have online/co-op for all their big games, including Devil May Cry, and they even experimented with it in DMC3 with the Arkham fight and the Doppelganger style. It could just be for an unrelated project since they said they want to become a two team studio.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:14
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 Yeah. That was a thing. Might as well talk about some cut content of this shitastic level. There was a removed enemy/level-set piece(?), called The Giant.  Like the mask from the other cut content, it also can be seen in the game's CA unlockables. It was apparently meant to destroy part of the city (in limbo) by swimming like some whale into the buildings, or through the air of something (There's a similar whale-beast, the Leviathan in DMC3). Don't know why it was removed, in place of a level that is mostly cutscene and platforming, and pretty much nothing else. Filler, I guess. Everything here-on-after is pretty much, "How the gently caress do we conclude this poo poo? Oh, who cares?" DLC Spoilers. The did, however, reuse part of the model as a new enemy. [e]: Sunning posted:Anyway, some people are speculating that Ninja Theory is making a sequel to DMC with online co-op. They've been hiring people for co-op game design and network programming. Probably for an unrelated project. I'll be very surprised if this gets a sequel, considering how toxic its reception was initially, and how forgotten it's become in the year since release (aside from when it gets brought up as a way not to reboot things). I recall Capcom saying they would want NT to do the sequel too, which NT hasn't committed to; they're currently working on some mobile Beat 'em Up game. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 17:19
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Hi guys, what's up-... Oh, yes THAT scene.  I mean, aside from the initial disgust, anger, and streams of, "Why???", Vergil finally gets off his rear end and does something after making Dante do all the work and it's... sniping a hostage and her child. Class act NT. Maybe there wasn't as much outrage against this scene as one think there would be since Lilith and demon fetus were trying to kill Dante a level ago, so out they in the most undignified way possible. 
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Mar 11, 2014 17:53
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Compendium posted:Hi guys, what's up-... Oh, yes THAT scene. Saying that what just happened is justified (and I'm not suggesting you are) because "oh they were a boss fight just then" is at once loving stupid and just a little bit disturbing. It was the main excuse for the scene back when the game's apologists were out in force, yes, but they were wrong then and they're wrong now.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:58
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Sunning posted:Still not good enough for Capcom: Christ Capcom if you want better reviews and thus a better Metacritic score then you have to pay off more reviewers or market the game better and generate more hype. Game quality beyond a base level does not really matter if you want bigger numbers. I guess the stuff in the article itself was PR bullshit so it's a moot point, but it's still irritating. EDIT: That Scene is at worst offensive and at best hack writers playing with toys they don't understand in an attempt to be edgy. Pity it didn't work and people have all but forgotten about the game- what a shame. Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 18:02
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Monkey Fracas posted:Pity it didn't work and people have all but forgotten about the game- what a shame. No, not really, no. The only way it can be considered a shame is that, now that it's all but disappeared from the public consciousness, NT might be trusted with a project of this scope again.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:08
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Monkey Fracas posted:That Scene is at worst offensive and at best hack writers playing with toys they don't understand in an attempt to be edgy. Pity it didn't work and people have all but forgotten about the game- what a shame. The worst "review" was the one that proclaimed that Antonides was "The Savior of Devil May Cry". It was just four pages of cock-sucking, and pretending the other games didn't exist. It did result in a nice edit that I don't have access to at the moment - Dante's line from DMC4 "Don't look so big from where I'm standing. Now it's just you and me, Mr Saviour". I don't find the scene offensive, it's laughable. You can see where they're trying to come from, and what they're trying to do...but it falls flat on so many levels. Not to mention how it's never brought up again, despite Dante's misgivings with it, (aside from the later "Wet Chunks" line) and that he should be furious with Vergil for putting Kat's life in danger. And yet...nothing happens. Dante never chews Vergil out for it, and it doesn't affect their relationship (such as it is) in any way. It's just "What the gently caress!? Why?" "Coz I had to" "Oh, okay, we cool bro."
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Mar 11, 2014 18:21
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This scene wasn't so much offensive as just offensively awful. It's this ridiculous hostage / drug deal style standoff between SWAT and what are essentially 2 superheroes but they try to play it off as completely serious. I literally could not stop laughing all the way until Virgil took the shot, then I just laughed harder.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:26
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Garrand posted:This scene wasn't so much offensive as just offensively awful. It's this ridiculous hostage / drug deal style standoff between SWAT and what are essentially 2 superheroes but they try to play it off as completely serious. I literally could not stop laughing all the way until Virgil took the shot, then I just laughed harder. Indeed. I really didn't have that big of a problem with what happens in the scene (people seem to forget that both the child and the mother were demons, not humans), just how ridiculous it all was, complete with the stupid Hollywood style shootout that ensues. To think that actual adults thought, with a straight face, that this scene was 'edgy' with 'Shakespearean level writing' is the most unfathomable of all.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:43
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Oxxidation posted:No, not really, no. I hope NT is relegated to designing background art in video games forever and they just never make another game on their own. Every loving game they have made is a pretty game with bad/boring gameplay. For chrissakes I think they basically modified the control scheme from Heavenly Sword a bit and used it for this game. The "platforming" sections are similarly lifeless- lock on, press button, move yourself/thing. Why did it take so long for people to admit that this was a mediocre/bad game?
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Mar 11, 2014 18:45
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Mr. Neutron posted:Indeed. I really didn't have that big of a problem with what happens in the scene (people seem to forget that both the child and the mother were demons, not humans), just how ridiculous it all was, complete with the stupid Hollywood style shootout that ensues. Yeah, killing pregnant creatures is a-ok as long as they aren't human.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:47
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Mehuyael posted:Yeah, killing pregnant creatures is a-ok as long as they aren't human. Especially if they begin to sob disconsolately just before they get capped in the skull! Lilith did more to make the audience sympathize with her in that split-second then the rubber-faced bros did for the whole game, but she is a Bad Guy so anything that happens to her is a-ok.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:54
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Mr. Neutron posted:Indeed. I really didn't have that big of a problem with what happens in the scene (people seem to forget that both the child and the mother were demons, not humans), just how ridiculous it all was, complete with the stupid Hollywood style shootout that ensues. Fine, let's assume they are Evil and Demons and that makes it Okay to kill them out of hand. You need to be a special kind of rear end in a top hat to shoot the baby, give the mother enough time to realize what just happened, then shoot the mother. Pureauthor fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 18:57
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Mehuyael posted:Yeah, killing pregnant creatures is a-ok as long as they aren't human. As long as they are demons (you know, unnatural creatures that want to exterminate all of humanity without slightest remorse)...then yes? (I actually do not know much about DmC backstory but I presume that is what demons usually do) This is a rather dumb discussion to have though, let's drop it. The lovely game sure is not worth it.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:58
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Mehuyael posted:Yeah, killing pregnant creatures is a-ok as long as they aren't human. He does have a point; just the level before, we were beating the poo poo out of them with a giant axe. The problem here, is the way they portray Lilith - she's vulnerable, scared, and acts with human emotion, sobbing, and so-forth. It's a complete reversal from the campy, over-the-top, boss that we've seen prior. She gets the audiences'...sympathy, pity maybe, despite what she is. Sometimes, even a devil may cry when...its demon babby is no-scoped. Either way, NT are trying to create actual drama, with something so ridiculous, and in such a ridiculous way, but played in a completely straight manner. It's absurd.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:59
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Pureauthor posted:Fine, let's assume they are Evil and Demons and that makes it Okay to kill them out of hand. That story about them wanting the protagonist of Enslaved to kick a guy off a plane for no reason because they thought it would make him look cool like a badass, ya'know? seems especially relevant here.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:59
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Pesky Splinter posted:He does have a point; just the level before, we were beating the poo poo out of them with a giant axe. Context matters. In the boss fight they were trying to kill Dante. No one would have blinked if he finished them right there and then. What Vergil on the other hand is doing is shooting a defenseless mother and her child who they were handing them over as part of a hostage negotiation for no reason.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:01
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Mr. Neutron posted:As long as they are demons (you know, unnatural creatures that want to exterminate all of humanity without slightest remorse)...then yes? Yeah, there isn't such a thing as a good demon in the DmC world. You didn't see a single one in the game.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:05
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Mr. Neutron posted:As long as they are demons (you know, unnatural creatures that want to exterminate all of humanity without slightest remorse)...then yes? They're apparently using humans like cattle, herding them and controlling them, to get their souls or something. I guess making them drink Slurm to get fat gives fatter souls or something. Oh, and they've been doing this for over 5,000 years, so effectively control humanity and human development 100%. Quite why they have to do this in secret, despite, you know, controlling all of humanity, is never raised. Killing them off would be a bad thing for them. Xoidanor posted:Context matters. In the boss fight they were trying to kill Dante. No one would have blinked if he finished them there. Oh, yeah. I don't disagree. Killing a monsterous giant-tumor-blob-babby with umbilical Mother attachments, is vastly different from shooting a defenceless pregnant woman. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 19:07
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Mr. Neutron posted:As long as they are demons (you know, unnatural creatures that want to exterminate all of humanity without slightest remorse)...then yes? Counterpoint: Sparda. Dante and Vergil's father.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:13
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Schubalts posted:Counterpoint: Sparda. Dante and Vergil's father. Yes but I am pretty sure that at this point in the story, Lilith has been unambigiously designated as playing for the Evil team. See her attempt to kill Dante a level or two back. My point is, this scene only gets the reactions it does because Lilith looks like a human (and is being presented as such). If she looked like the Succubus from the earlier level, noone would give a poo poo she and her child gets killed.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:20
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Mr. Neutron posted:Yes but I am pretty sure that at this point in the story, Lilith has been unambigiously designated as playing for the Evil team. See her attempt to kill Dante a level or two back. It's okay to murder someone if he's proven to be evil then?
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Mar 11, 2014 19:24
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I think my favorite part of that scene is when all the SWAT open fire on the heroes from about 10 feet away in an open field with machine guns and miss completely. They don't even try to dodge or have kat use some semen magic to make a shield or anything, just a group of soldiers all aiming at the ground, even when kat just loving stands there and dante has to slooooolwly come and princess carry her away, being shot at the entire time. darealkooky fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 19:31
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They actually do hit Dante, a few times, but he takes zero damage from it, and barely even flinches, a trait that the original Dante shares, funnily enough.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:47
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Mr. Neutron posted:As long as they are demons (you know, unnatural creatures that want to exterminate all of humanity without slightest remorse)...then yes? Nothing in this game says the Demons want to kill humans off. They''re more into the control and obey me style of evil. They want to rule, but they never show any sort of violence towards humans. They are evil dicks, but with regard to humanity, they prefer control and domination over death and destruction.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:47
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It's the delay that gets me. Vergil murders an unborn child, purposefully gives the mother time to despair and then kills her too. It was purely vindictive and cruel. It's obvious it wasn't about necessity, Vergil wasn't doing what he thought was the "right thing". He wanted her to suffer. Mundus, too. And we're supposed to brush it off. Like, it's a difference of opinion, a brotherly spat about methods and means. Tameem and NT thought that killing a child and then finishing off it's wounded, heartbroken mother would be grounds for a minor disagreement. Oxxidation posted:Especially if they begin to sob disconsolately just before they get capped in the skull!
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Mar 11, 2014 20:06
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Schubalts posted:Counterpoint: Sparda. Dante and Vergil's father. One of the things that bug me about this reboot is just how irrelevant Sparda is. In previous games the plot always revolved around some legacy or artifact of Sparda. It made him interesting even though we barely knew anything about him. Here he is just Dante's dad, locked away somewhere.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:20
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Nihilarian posted:And we're supposed to brush it off. Like, it's a difference of opinion, a brotherly spat about methods and means. Tameem and NT thought that killing a child and then finishing off it's wounded, heartbroken mother would be grounds for a minor disagreement. To be fair, I see this as being entirely in Dante's character.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:30
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notZaar posted:One of the things that bug me about this reboot is just how irrelevant Sparda is. In previous games the plot always revolved around some legacy or artifact of Sparda. It made him interesting even though we barely knew anything about him. Here he is just Dante's dad, locked away somewhere. That's really the issue of NT wanting to have their cake and eat it; Sparda is a major thing in the originals, ergo, they must include him in their "reinterpretation". Problem is, they don't want to tell the story of a deified rear end-kicking demon who saved humanity, no, they want to have a story about their character standing up against the man, and the evils of commercialism. But they've also got to stick him in somewhere, so I guess Mundus' BDSM basement dimension, it is then. v  vPotentially, the one cool new thing they could have done, by having Dante and Vergil interact with Sparda - something not seen in the originals - completely wasted.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:41
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Anyone trying to argue any sort of emotional attachment to anyone in this game is a complete joke. You need actual characterization and motivation for that. Nobody has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're not just complete assholes deserving nothing more than a trip to the recycle bin because they should have scrapped any ideas they made for these characters. The only thing they wrote, copy, then pasted into everyone's personality trait is: Vapid and unlikable.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:30
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When I finished watching that hostage exchange standoff, I was in awe that this sort of thing was happening in a Devil May Cry game. It wouldn't even be hard to make it more interesting; have Lilith signal to the SWAT to start firing the moment she passes the witch, she breaks into a run. You have Dante and Vergil trading shots with the SWAT, throw in slow-motion showing that bullets are colliding and bouncing off each other in mid-air, Kat magicking up self-defense and retaliation like Vergil tosses her the spraycan and spraying a quick line makes a wall that bounces bullets back or something, even have Dante alternating between spinning his sword and his guns to block shots. Bam, there you go, a more fun sequence to watch. But then I guess Tameem couldn't kill an unborn baby and the mother in that scenario. 
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Mar 11, 2014 21:31
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tlarn posted:[Actual fun stuff that would improve everything ten-fold] But that's not serious and gritty enough. We need serious faces, and serious situations, dammit!  Actually, following your idea, have the level be about chasing her down. While she tries to unleash the baby again, and summons demons or something. That way they could keep in killing them. Anything other than what it ended up as - stop the Vergilmobile from crashing! Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 21:57
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Even if they hadn't decided to depict a scene where the protagonist's brother blows out a pregnant demon woman's womb with a sniper rifle, giving her enough time to suffer before ending her too and he'd just shot her in the head, whhhhyyyyyyyy. Virgil you literally just tried to get yourself, Dante and Kat killed, you didn't even pick a good time to betray Mundus nor did you pick a good way to do it, and what the jesus gently caress did Lilith do to you to deserve that extra bit of torture? She has instigated absolutely nothing in the plot why did you have to torture her like that. Seriously Virgil I thought you're not supposed to be a demon. Everything about that scene was dumb, what happened, why it happened, how it happened, who did it, everything.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:25
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Sunning posted:Anyway, some people are speculating that Ninja Theory is making a sequel to DMC with online co-op. They've been hiring people for co-op game design and network programming. Capcom said they wanted to have online/co-op for all their big games, including Devil May Cry, and they even experimented with it in DMC3 with the Arkham fight and the Doppelganger style. It could just be for an unrelated project since they said they want to become a two team studio. I really doubt it's for another DmC game. This one was so bad it wasn't even mentioned in the book or retrospective thing Capcom did for the DMC series. That and they had to adjust their sales figures from 4mil to 1.15mil  And as it was mentioned earlier, Ninja Theory is working on phone games now. Hopefully they will stay there.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:58
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The biggest problem I have with this scene is how loving badly this scene played out. It just happens. MC doesn't call him out on it or anything. and in the next level MC and Vergil are all buddy-buddy like it never happened. I mean just compare it to Jessica's death in Saints Row 2. There are two ways that I thought that it could have possibly played out that would have made a bit more sense to me: 1. Everything plays out like it but the ending cutscene to the level is different. Instead of just Mundus walking away from the window what we get is something else. So team Good Guys go back to their hideout and MC just decks Vergil. He begins yelling at him about how he killed a pregnant woman and accusing him of ratting in the Order. Vergil responds with the usual "necessary Sacrifices" and "I did what I had to." Thing start getting intense It appears that MC and Virgil are about to throw down. And then Kat interrupts them and informs them that she has a plan to get into mundus's office and kill him. MC however wants none of this poo poo and is ready to walk. Until either Kat give him the Puppy dog eyes or Vergil points on that MC's in to deep and that Mundus will hunt him down and kill him slowly for what he did and that MC's only choice is to kill Mundus. The cutscene end with MC relenting but adding at the end that "when this is all over, I never want to see you loving face again." Then the NExt Level plays out with there being a clear tension between MC and Vergil. 2. The exchange goes off without a hitch until the very end. Mundus the orders his goons to kill MC and Vergil. During the ensuring shootout Dante takes a bullet in this shoulder throwing off his aim causing him to accidentally kill the unborn child. The Good Guys don't see this however because they're too busy getting the gently caress out of there. In the ending cutscene Mundus then kills Lilith for failing to protect his heir. Then the next level plays out as it does only without MC or Vergil knowing that they're responsible for the unborn child's death until Mundus informs them of this. Both of these would have worked a lot better than what we get and still would have if the Dark and Gritty tm tone that they were going for.
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Mar 11, 2014 23:33
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That really felt like partway through development someone played Bayonetta and insisted they do a witch time segment despite Limbo not working that way at any other point in the game. 
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Mar 12, 2014 00:10
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Let this be a lesson to every publisher in existence: The same fate fell on other games before DmC. Anyone remember the original remake of Prince of Persia, with it's lighthearted tone and charming characters, before Warrior Within's opening cutscene has the main character calling someone a bitch? They took that idea and multiplied it, condensed it, until they have what you see here. It's like publishers just want to throw money away by completely abandoning any fanbase they had, in the hopes that, what, they'll lure in an even larger demographic? That they'll capture an even larger fanbase, without any thought or concern to the existing one? Just throw your money, IP and any future products away. It'll save time. Who still thinks this is A Good Game? Raise your hand.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:14
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I mean, for a second there I thought Vergil was going to shoot Kat because it was a trick by Mundus and it wasn't really her but nooooooope How the hell did that gun even work anyways? Dante was playing ping-pong with their skulls last level and they came out of that none the worse for wear WHYYY 
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Mar 12, 2014 05:14
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Bellmaker posted:I mean, for a second there I thought Vergil was going to shoot Kat because it was a trick by Mundus and it wasn't really her but nooooooope Cutscene injuries are much more powerful compared to gameplay injuries. Alternatively, those bullets were way edgier than the normal ones you're shooting so actual power.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:27
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While we're on the subject of gunfire, I love the how despite the sheer volume of bullets flying through the air, people only get hit when Vergil takes potshots with The Abortioner 3000. Also, that loving car. I was laughing for something like five minutes straight when I first saw that big V in the middle of his dashboard. loving seriously, Ninja Theory? GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 05:56
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