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Fuego Fish posted:Doesn't Microsoft own Crimson Skies, actually? I know they put out the Crimson Skies video games. Maybe they should do that, shouldn't be any harder than doing CGI for magic cowboys. They may not own the TV rights to it. The legalities of the various FASA IPs are a tangled mess.
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May 1, 2014 17:24
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd be all over a Battletech show if they could do that.
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May 1, 2014 17:53
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PresidentBeard posted:What was bad about Deadlands depiction of Native Americans? This is coming from someone with only minimal exposure to Deadlands asking an honest question, not someone denying that it happened. The short version: a whole lot of generalizing, mixing of disparate cultures and traditions, some Magical Nature Savages bullshit...you know, standard 90s minority problems as applied to Native Americans, except they're a major group within the setting.
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May 1, 2014 17:55
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So this popped up. 
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May 1, 2014 18:13
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Mors Rattus posted:The short version: a whole lot of generalizing, mixing of disparate cultures and traditions, some Magical Nature Savages bullshit...you know, standard 90s minority problems as applied to Native Americans, except they're a major group within the setting. There's an F&F review of both Deadlands and the Native American Splatbook that I think touches on some of this too. I can't quite remember, it might have just addressed how wonky shamanism was out of the corebook.
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May 2, 2014 01:54
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Pet peeve of mine. Shamanism is a real religion native to northern Europe and Asia (primarily in Siberia and neighboring areas). One can describe religions as shamanistic that share certain believes/practices with Shamanism. There are only three tribes in North America that practice what could be termed shamanism, and none of them are mentioned in Deadlands, except the Inuit. The shamanism magic fluff actually fits with real world shamanism beliefs fairly well, but it has basically nothing to do with native beliefs. There's a lot in Deadlands I like, but the treatment of natives in the fluff isn't great. I'm only familiar with Reloaded, but I'm given to understand that it was even worse in the older material.
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May 2, 2014 02:37
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Dude I do not care, if a Deadlands show actually happens I will watch every drat episode for sure. And I hate television! They are capturing the vital "Quarex" demographic.bunnielab posted:Related question, how does current body armor work for large chested women? Do they just cram into a compression top and wear a slightly larger size or what? The discussion a few weeks ago about about how there is no actual legitimate one-stop source for RPG news came to mind when I saw this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tabletop-season-3-with-wil-wheaton I mean, even assuming they make their RPG Episodes stretch goal, it would still hardly be anything resembling a one-stop source, but having a (presumably) professionally-produced show about tabletop RPGs is surely a step in the right direction?
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May 2, 2014 22:55
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They just made the RPG stretch goal, and he normally gets interesting guests so I'd love to watch it, as long as they pick something better than Pathfinder or Next. I have no real confidence in them doing so, though.
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May 2, 2014 23:00
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Wheaton is a huge Fiasco fan.
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May 3, 2014 01:02
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Darksaber posted:They just made the RPG stretch goal, and he normally gets interesting guests so I'd love to watch it, as long as they pick something better than Pathfinder or Next. I have no real confidence in them doing so, though. Tabletop has already done episodes of Dragon Age and Fiasco (the Fiasco episode is probably one of the best they've done). Wil Wheaton also wrote the foreword for the Fiasco Companion - so I have confidence that it won't just be Pathfinder or Next. Edit: Also both Wil Wheaton and Felicia Day know a bit about what will screen well (which is why they don't play Dominion on Tabletop) - so I'm expecting games that play snappily like Apocalypse World (possibly bowdlerised) ore ones with effective visual representations like Dread rather than something big and clunky. Although there will almost certainly be a Big Minis game in there. neonchameleon fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 02:55
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PresidentBeard posted:What was bad about Deadlands depiction of Native Americans? This is coming from someone with only minimal exposure to Deadlands asking an honest question, not someone denying that it happened. It relies heavily on the Magical Native American stereotype, and several of their adventures have a wise Indian shaman dispense wisdom in cryptic ways to the PCs as part of the adventure plots. Although magic aptitude is not tied to race, it is explicitly stated that Native American beliefs in the supernatural and spirits gave them an advantage over white settlers who weren't as superstitious. Despite the fact that there are European magical traditions present (holy Christians performing miracles and card-slinging gamblers making deals with the devil in exchange for magic) in the game, and in real US history many white Americans still had religious beliefs with supernatural elements. Look at many Christians in the West today, who believe in an afterlife and communion with God; it's little different than belief in a spirit world. There's also a general mishmash of divergent beliefs, cultures, and traditions into a sameyness in both the overarching game mechanics and fluff text. Also, the Reloaded Edition claims that the historical racism does not exist anymore on a societal scale and Deadlands was more progressive, notably for African-Americans: they gained freedom and voting rights and integration. However, all the hatred, racism, and worst of the American-Indian Wars is still present, and racial resentment between white settlers and Indians is a visible background element in one of their adventure paths (Last Sons). I don't remember the specifics, but it's also implied that Chinese immigrants are still more or less segregated from the rest of society. In Deadlands, history progressed as normal until this evil Native American shaman named Raven unlocked the Reckoners from the spirit world. Raven's entire tribe fell victim to genocide in the 1700s, and he had to turn to powerful trapped evil beings to halt the tide of US enroachment on the continent. Problem is, the Reckoners feed off of everyone's fear, and with them brought monsters and magic back into the world (it existed before, only in minimal amounts), turning a lot of places to poo poo. However, the supernatural can be used for good ends, which means that many Native American shamans' traditions became more powerful and used it to turn back the tide. There are 2 Indian nations, the Sioux Nations and the Coyote Confederation. Raven has a powerful contingent of supporters known as Ravenites, who are unhappy with the stalemate, and want to drive the whites from America even if it means plunging the world into a bleak, evil chaos. Sitting Bull, the leader of the Sioux Nations, is secretly a Ravenite. This is quite a mischaracterization, as Sitting Bull's top priority in real life was ensuring the safety of his people. His nation is literally the best thing going for the Native Americans in terms of halting US invasion, so I don't think he'd throw all caution to the wind and pursue a losing battle (spirits and magic can only do so much). Keep in mind that despite all this hidden supernatural stuff going on, historical figures are more or less themselves. Abe Lincoln's a walking corpse and believed murdered, but he still wants to unite the Union and Confederacy. Brigham Young and the Latter-Day Saints are now their own country as well (Deseret), but they're still fervent believers who set up in Utah to follow Joseph Smith's example. Famous outlaws such as Billy the Kid continue robbing and killing people for money. The famous figures' core ideals are still intact, but not for Sitting Bull. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 05:29
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So a certain RPG author is being associated with a product pitched as a "child-friendly over the edge", and as a "children's adventure project". An author who wrote "Hentacle", the game (and its expansion "Sloppy Seconds"). Who wrote "The Slayer's Guide to Women". The man who titles his blog posts, unironically, with things like "In Defense of Rape". Sometimes this industry just has to be witnessed to be believed.
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May 5, 2014 18:53
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I was wondering what Grimjim was up to these days, that's fantastic.
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May 5, 2014 19:10
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Kai Tave posted:I was wondering what Grimjim was up to these days, that's fantastic. FMguru fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 21:05
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As an addendum, the cover for "Sloppy Seconds" features someone drowning in semen. Let's write for kids!
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May 5, 2014 21:12
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FMguru posted:That's almost as good as the guy from the old Grognards thread who kept insisting that Gor would make a great setting for kids.
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May 5, 2014 21:25
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MadScientistWorking posted:Aren't they the same people? No; Uri Kurlianchik was the guy who did Gor for Kids.
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May 5, 2014 21:30
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On the Edge? The last game of that I was in may have been one of the least child-friendly games I've ever been in. Maybe we can come up with other less child-friendly games, tho? Child-friendly Unknown Armies. Child-friendly Exalted. Child-friendly Cthulhutech?
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May 5, 2014 21:35
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Alien Rope Burn posted:On the Edge? The last game of that I was in may have been one of the least child-friendly games I've ever been in. Maybe we can come up with other less child-friendly games, tho? Child-friendly Unknown Armies. Child-friendly Exalted. Child-friendly Cthulhutech? The problem with Cthulutech and Exalted is that they're uncomfortably friendly to children.
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May 5, 2014 21:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Child-friendly Cthulhutech? Isn't this just Ettin's Nyarlathotech hack with the genre switch set to Slice of Life or Toyetic Monster/Henshin Show? And an optional dusting of Scooby Doo on top?
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May 5, 2014 21:53
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Davin Valkri posted:Isn't this just Ettin's Nyarlathotech hack with the genre switch set to Slice of Life or Toyetic Monster/Henshin Show? And an optional dusting of Scooby Doo on top? Yeah, it's not that the concept itself is so outlandish as it is the dude attempting it.
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May 5, 2014 22:03
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Error 404 posted:Yeah, it's not that the concept itself is so outlandish as it is the dude attempting it. To be fair, many people considered "child-friendly" had child-unfriendly past acts. Pee Wee Herman wanked on a cinema. Mr. Rogers sniped seventy Victor Charlies in 'Nam. Doctor Seuss did racist caricatures of the Japanese. The guy who wrote the Wizard of Oz advocated the genocide of Native Americans. Hans Christian Anderson was one of the suspects of being Jack the Ripper during his stay in London, and is suspect of murdering twenty people in Denmark. The Grimm Brothers were part of a satanic cult and conducted many massacres in the Black Forest.
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May 5, 2014 22:12
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What the hell kind of biographies have you been reading?! The only one of those that seems true is the Dr. Seuss one (Geisel did do some WWII propaganda posters), and all the rest are the sort of thing disproven by 30 seconds on Wikipedia (Andersen, for instance, died a good decade before Jack the Ripper was active). Or is that 
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May 5, 2014 22:16
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Mr. Rogers sniped seventy Victor Charlies in 'Nam. Fred Rogers never served in the military. He studied music in college, went into TV in the 50s in an effort to make it better for kids, became a minister and...and basically everything about Mr. Rogers was and had always been exactly what it appeared to be. And pretty much all that can be said about the Grimm Brothers is that they made some of their poo poo up.
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May 5, 2014 22:16
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Guys, it's a joke. A bad joke.
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May 5, 2014 22:17
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Mr. Rogers sniped seventy Victor Charlies in 'Nam. This is off topic, but I will suffer no besmirchment of Fred Rogers: http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/mrrogers.asp. Edit: Goddamn you guys were on it.
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May 5, 2014 22:19
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Mors Rattus posted:Fred Rogers never served in the military. He studied music in college, went into TV in the 50s in an effort to make it better for kids, became a minister and...and basically everything about Mr. Rogers was and had always been exactly what it appeared to be. Dude might be thinking of Bob Ross, but yeah. Even if Hans Christian Anderson had been Jack the Ripper, I would still have more faith in his childrens work than in loving James Desborough's.
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May 5, 2014 22:20
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Davin Valkri posted:Or is that Well yeah (Pee Wee and the Wizard of Oz parts are true, though. L. Frank Baum was kinda racist!).
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May 5, 2014 22:22
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Yeah in all likelihood Jack the Ripper was exceptionally mentally ill. Desborough has no such excuse. Hell outside of murdering prostitutes and possibly being anti-Semitic old Jack might have been a pretty cool dude.
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May 5, 2014 22:22
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Mr. Maltose posted:Guys, it's a joke. A bad joke. The post is pretty bad too  In unrelated and far more interesting news, Last Stand Reinforcements has funded  I only wish I could have helped 
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May 6, 2014 06:02
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Darren MacLennan posted:No; Uri Kurlianchik was the guy who did Gor for Kids. They've also leapt to each other's defense, incidentally.  The reason Desborough keeps getting work is a lot of people (in the RPG industry and elsewhere) don't associate people's work with their beliefs. When someone tasks him to write an RPG for children, they're thinking it doesn't matter that he's an MRA weirdo, or that he wailed about people victimizing him with threatening messages while simultaneously dismissing fans of his sending rape threats to women who criticise him as "not real threats", or that he's written skeevy books about how weird chicks are, added rape jokes and called it "satire", or even that time he posted a 15-minute YouTube video about being banned from RPGnet, because they think that's totally not going to leak into this. Plus geek social fallacies, a lot of gamers are faster to call out people being Also a lot of people in the RPG industry are bad at setting standards, and when they do they can be bad at enforcing them because telling other nerds to stop doing a thing is hard, you guys (cf. nWoD going from "There will be no variable target numbers" to "I checked thoroughly to make sure it was virgin design space to work with!").
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May 6, 2014 09:43
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Also who starts their art budget at $400 for all that poo poo? If you're asking someone to associate with one of the saddest men in gaming the least you can do is not rip them off. 
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May 6, 2014 10:08
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Ettin posted:Also who starts their art budget at $400 for all that poo poo? If you're asking someone to associate with one of the saddest men in gaming the least you can do is not rip them off. That's like big money for indie RPG industry standards, haha.
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May 6, 2014 10:29
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Well yeah (Pee Wee and the Wizard of Oz parts are true, though. L. Frank Baum was kinda racist!). While I'm not 100% sure what the phrase "wanked on a cinema" might mean, I think it's worth clarifying that Paul Reubens was arrested for masturbating in a porn theater meant for masturbating.
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May 6, 2014 11:51
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ravenkult posted:That's like big money for indie RPG industry standards, haha. Well that's kinda hosed by regular standards Also just to be clear this problem isn't limited to lovely dudes or people nobody's heard of. Just the first one off the top of my head: to my knowledge Dungeon World's Sage LaTorra has never publicly voiced support for or even mentioned Inverse World despite openly wishing there were great DW supplements, but he has griped about the creators severing ties with a guy who decided to help with an "edgy" RPG project with a skeevy rape game in it. If you actually wanted to hurt your chances in the RPG industry a nice fast way is calling out bullshit and people who accept it.
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May 6, 2014 12:06
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Hopefully some day there'll be enough people in the hobby willing to say "gently caress this" to that kind of poo poo that it won't be 
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May 6, 2014 12:23
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Ettin posted:Well that's kinda hosed by regular standards For the record, he and Adam Koebel have both also backed Inverse World's kickstarter. So they clearly do endorse it. Just, they refuse to actually say anything about it or acknowledge its existence anywhere.
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May 6, 2014 12:54
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Davin Valkri posted:The only one of those that seems true is the Dr. Seuss one (Geisel did do some WWII propaganda posters), He also worked on the Private Snafu cartoons and Your Job in Germany. There is such a thing of context, and I wouldn't condemn Geisel based on his propaganda work given that, but there's some pretty unacceptable stuff by modern standards. Ettin posted:If you actually wanted to hurt your chances in the RPG industry a nice fast way is calling out bullshit and people who accept it. It's troublesome in many industries, really, but the fact that it's getting called out at all is a big shift. Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 14:06 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 13:21
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Tollymain posted:Hopefully some day there'll be enough people in the hobby willing to say "gently caress this" to that kind of poo poo that it won't be Things are getting better! Some reminders: Uri Kurlianchik used to write columns for WotC's website and was booted when it came out that he was an apologist for domestic violence, Gareth-Michael Skarka is mostly known these days as an internet tough guy who doesn't finish things on time, Trollman was never rehired by Catalyst for Shadowrun and has basically been reduced to posting homebrew his own forum, and every RPG forum that matters (RPGnet and ENWorld in particular) has been revising and updating its rules to cover sexist bullshit.
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May 6, 2014 13:43
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Hey, at least if Desborough doesn't get dinged for having written multiple products depicting underage girls getting raped by tentacle monsters before moving on to a kid-friendly project, we'll have a new dipstick to measure the industry's poo poo with compared to all this progress we're having.
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May 6, 2014 13:57
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