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LividLiquid posted:Are you not? You seem to be arguing that Rock's return should have been promoted ahead of time. I'm taking the opposite position. It's the return of the guy who is the biggest mainstream star in the history of wrestling, of course you should promote it. Look how promoting Batista's return helped that insane first hour number and Batista isn't in the same realm of a star. It makes sure more people are watching your product and can get psyched to buy things later. There's plenty of surprises you can do. You don't announce a major heel turn like we saw on Raw, it is one of those things that organically happens on the show. You can bring guys in for a nice surprise if it isn't going to make a difference for your business. Bringing in the Rock unannounced for WM is a great example, it was a surprise and wouldn't have helped buys at all, but it sent the crowd into a frenzy since only a couple places reported he'd be on the show. John Cena's return is another great example, Rumble 08 was already a really strong show from the business side, his return wouldn't help much. By making it a surprise you created a huge moment on a show that was already poised for success. You only get one chance to bring the Rock back into WWE after years and years away, you should milk it for all it is worth. Saying "Promote the return of THE ROCK" isn't saying "NEVER DO SURPRISES." Don't be dense.
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Jun 6, 2014 06:53
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Fair enough. I'm not trying to create that false dichotomy. I still disagree, and think it was the right move.
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Jun 6, 2014 07:01
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I’m going to try to ask this question without coming off as sexist or misogynistic. Has Stephanie McMahon had…um…”work” done?
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Jun 6, 2014 12:53
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CobiWann posted:I’m going to try to ask this question without coming off as sexist or misogynistic. Breast implants. Maybe a nose job.
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Jun 6, 2014 12:57
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edit: nvm
Cromulent fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 13:48
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In the 80's, the WWF gained a degree of notoriety for hiring wrestlers from other territories and promotions. But which promotion / territory produced the greatest number of stars for the WWF?
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Jun 6, 2014 14:01
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Ghostpilot posted:In the 80's, the WWF gained a degree of notoriety for hiring wrestlers from other territories and promotions. But which promotion / territory produced the greatest number of stars for the WWF? 
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Jun 6, 2014 14:06
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Ghostpilot posted:In the 80's, the WWF gained a degree of notoriety for hiring wrestlers from other territories and promotions. But which promotion / territory produced the greatest number of stars for the WWF? AWA had Hogan, Sheik, Rockers, Slaughter, Scott Hall.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:10
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edit: oops
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Jun 6, 2014 14:10
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:AWA had Hogan, Sheik, Rockers, Slaughter, Scott Hall. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 14:31
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:AWA had Hogan, Sheik, Rockers, Slaughter, Scott Hall. Also Curt Hennig, who was one of their last world champs. E:FB by a sec
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Jun 6, 2014 14:31
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Yeah, I was going to say AWA. Watching a late-period AWA broadcast is the equivalent of "Who's going to be in WWF next year?"
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Jun 6, 2014 14:41
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Yeah AWA seems to have gotten raided by Vince worse than anyone. Rick Martel's another AWA guy that hadn't been mentioned yet. As far as other big WWF stars of the period and their last major territoral stops go: Ted Dibiase - Georgia and UWF Randy Savage - Memphis Piper - JCP Rick Rude - JCP Warrior - World Class Jake the Snake - Mid South, but seemed to travel through all the major southern territories rather regularly Besides Andre, by the late '80s there really didn't seem to be a lot of people left from the old WWWF before Vince took over from his dad. Ken Patera's the main one that comes to mind. Thauros fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 15:50
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How were the ratings for Eric Bischof's debut on RAW? I thought it was neat how they had him appear backstage out of nowhere, and then left just enough time for people to hear about it and tune into the show, before unveiling him in the ring, and explaining what the hell was actually going on.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:23
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CobiWann posted:I’m going to try to ask this question without coming off as sexist or misogynistic.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:30
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Minidust posted:There was actually an in-ring segment with Stephanie and Jericho in which it was very specifically addressed, complete with before and after pics on the tron. It was like a more awkward version of a typical McMahon humiliation segment (and of course my mom was in the room when it originally aired). Let the boobies hit the floor.
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Jun 6, 2014 16:30
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Didn't Cena make reference to them this week on Raw? Someone did recently, anyway.
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Jun 6, 2014 17:08
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Frankenstein Dad posted:Didn't Cena make reference to them this week on Raw? Someone did recently, anyway. It was indeed Cena, during his overly long promo about how he should be champion or whatever.
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Jun 6, 2014 17:13
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This may be either obvious or unanswerable, but: What's the impetus for the whole "try and force X to get over" versus letting things happen organically? Is it really just Vince needing to be in control of everything? It really stands out as odd when something occurs that happens to capture everyone's attention, and then they'll either veer in an opposite direction, or more recently, run it so hard into the ground that I can't help but believe they're doing it on purpose. Which loops back around to the "why", since it seems that those are the things you're trying to create and monetize. I don't get it, but maybe there's nothing there to "get".
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Jun 6, 2014 17:38
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Part of it is long term planning. Though you can't often tell, most programs, especially the main event/title programs, are booked long in advance. So it's easier to plan long term if you have an idea of who is going to be pushed and who isn't. If you just toss poo poo at the wall and wait for fans to latch on to something, you'll be changing your booking so fast that it will be hard for anything to make sense (this often happens anyway, but that's another story). Plus, they start advertising cards for house shows and such quite a while before the actual show. So they need to have some idea of what programs will be running, which they couldn't do if they made frequent changes on the fly. That's part of it, anyway, The thing about Vince's control issues are a huge part of it too.
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Jun 6, 2014 17:48
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FakePoet posted:This may be either obvious or unanswerable, but: Vince thinks he understands what will draw the most money rather than grabbing the crowd's attention momentarily.
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Jun 6, 2014 17:55
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FakePoet posted:It really stands out as odd when something occurs that happens to capture everyone's attention, and then they'll either veer in an opposite direction, or more recently, run it so hard into the ground that I can't help but believe they're doing it on purpose. Which loops back around to the "why", since it seems that those are the things you're trying to create and monetize I think they run certain things so hard into the ground because they assume wrestling fans are idiots and need to have everything spoonfed to them.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:33
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triplexpac posted:I think they run certain things so hard into the ground because they assume wrestling fans are idiots and need to have everything spoonfed to them. That's why you get so many "She's so whacky!" "It's fun to dance!" "This is humorous and you should laugh" moments.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:12
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I remember during Summerslam 2012 they had some band play and all the divas came out and danced and Michael Cole was dancing and it was just horrible. What I'm saying here is stop having musical performances during wrestling unless its a wrestler being played down.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:17
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Just don't have musical performances in general. I don't need to hear Lemmy slurring his words for twenty minutes because he forgot the lyrics while HHH is being slowly wheeled to the ring on a giant throne or something.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:30
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MrBling posted:Just don't have musical performances in general. I don't need to hear Lemmy slurring his words for twenty minutes because he forgot the lyrics while HHH is being slowly wheeled to the ring on a giant throne or something. I do. I need this very much.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:31
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My most hated booking trope is the "beat the champion to get a title shot" thing. Is there anyone in particular on the creative team who keeps pushing this? Like, I'm hoping it's not a big HHH thing, and we're bound to see more of it when he's in charge. Just wondering if there's anyone to blame or if it's just general laziness with the booking.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:34
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Minidust posted:My most hated booking trope is the "beat the champion to get a title shot" thing. Is there anyone in particular on the creative team who keeps pushing this? Like, I'm hoping it's not a big HHH thing, and we're bound to see more of it when he's in charge. Just wondering if there's anyone to blame or if it's just general laziness with the booking. In NXT, the champions (particularly the NXT Champion) frequently get long showcase matches ending with clean wins. I can't remember the last time any of the champions lost in non-title matches.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:37
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Minidust posted:My most hated booking trope is the "beat the champion to get a title shot" thing. Is there anyone in particular on the creative team who keeps pushing this? Like, I'm hoping it's not a big HHH thing, and we're bound to see more of it when he's in charge. Just wondering if there's anyone to blame or if it's just general laziness with the booking. There's probably someone specific to blame, but I'm gonna blame Dunn since it seems like something he might want. "To make it seem more dramatic, the audience knows that Champ Grapplesman could lose against Challenger Jobsclean, so they'll want to tune in for their next performance!" Basically it's just easier to assume all bad with WWE stems from Kevin Dunn in some way, as if he is the cancer infecting Vince's decisions.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:48
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oldpainless posted:I remember during Summerslam 2012 they had some band play and all the divas came out and danced and Michael Cole was dancing and it was just horrible. AMERICA! AMERICA! AMERICA! AMERICA! AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAA~
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Jun 6, 2014 19:52
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Minidust posted:There was actually an in-ring segment with Stephanie and Jericho in which it was very specifically addressed, complete with before and after pics on the tron. It was like a more awkward version of a typical McMahon humiliation segment (and of course my mom was in the room when it originally aired). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZU1r9xuppc The whole segment involving Jericho, Rock, Steph, Booker and Rhyno.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:54
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I think Stephanie just really loves her huge fake tits and insists everyone she feuds with mentions them in their promos.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:54
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Let the boobies hit the floor. It seems like our little Million Dollar Princess sure has groooown in the past year! I don't really have anything to add, I just loved the Jericho-Stephanie feud. Misogynistic? Maybe, but it's Stephanie and she hammed it up real nice.
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Jun 6, 2014 19:54
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So apparently Roddy Piper punched Vince Russo on television, in the middle of shooting about how he ruined wrestling and contributed to Owen Hart's death? I somehow have not heard about this before. What was the internet reaction when this happened? Or the industry reaction for that matter? (I assume none to the latter since it was on TNA)
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Jun 6, 2014 19:55
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MassRafTer posted:Vince thinks he understands what will draw the most money rather than grabbing the crowd's attention momentarily. So it's in large part a lack of understanding on my part (which I assumed was highly likely to begin with). To dovetail into another conversation that recently happened, due to my growing up watching in the 90's the lack of real "surprises" (or at least what I knew as such) is one thing I really miss, but I've always attributed that to the folding of WCW coinciding with the advent of the true "internet wrestling community", even if they did exist in some form earlier than that. I think it's fairly obvious however that the environment has changed, seemingly permanently, as far as those things go. In any case, I do find the inner workings of these things at least as interesting as the actual product. That being said...do you think he does? I mean, he obviously has a track record, and seems remarkably adept at adapting to the times.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:05
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oldpainless posted:I remember during Summerslam 2012 they had some band play and all the divas came out and danced and Michael Cole was dancing and it was just horrible. Blast Fantasto posted:So apparently Roddy Piper punched Vince Russo on television, in the middle of shooting about how he ruined wrestling and contributed to Owen Hart's death? I somehow have not heard about this before. Cromulent fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 20:31
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I think Vince just really loves Stephanie's huge fake tits and insists everyone she feuds with mentions them in their promos.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:33
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Blast Fantasto posted:So apparently Roddy Piper punched Vince Russo on television, in the middle of shooting about how he ruined wrestling and contributed to Owen Hart's death? I somehow have not heard about this before. Its a dogshit promo with seemingly no purpose like much of Piper's post-WWE career. A few weeks later he comes back and insists all wrestling promoters are evil because they don't provide health insurance and the "independent contractor" excuse is total bullshit. He's correct, of course, but since he probably didnt clear that promo with anybody the announce team has to paint him as a delusional old man because TNA isn't going to suddenly change the status quo over a Roddy Piper promo.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:35
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Bard Maddox posted:In NXT, the champions (particularly the NXT Champion) frequently get long showcase matches ending with clean wins. I can't remember the last time any of the champions lost in non-title matches. Paige lost to Charlotte in a tag match pretty much immediately after winning the Divas' belt. Though it was taped before she won the Diva belt, she was definitely the NXT Women's champ at the time. EDIT - Just noticed "clean" in your post now, I have no idea if it was a clean win or not.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:38
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oatgan posted:Its a dogshit promo with seemingly no purpose like much of Piper's post-WWE career. A few weeks later he comes back and insists all wrestling promoters are evil because they don't provide health insurance and the "independent contractor" excuse is total bullshit. He's correct, of course, but since he probably didnt clear that promo with anybody the announce team has to paint him as a delusional old man because TNA isn't going to suddenly change the status quo over a Roddy Piper promo. Haha, I had a sneaking feeling it was something like that. I was gleaming this whole thing from his Wikipedia page, which treats it as a legitimate, lurid shoot. With a ton of [citation needed]'s thrown all over it of course.
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Jun 6, 2014 21:09
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