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Assuming that the information is accurate and means that there's scum in AU, Legion, and MediFed (which I firmly believe there is), I guess we can try to narrow it down some for each empire. For Legion, I'm fine clearing f_v based on Ernie's town behaviour. I don't believe that she's the scum. I'm torn between Crazyeyes and 50 though since both are exhibiting some pretty suspicious and anti-town behaviour. 50 saying that because his team probably won't meet their wincon he doesn't care about scumhunting anymore is quite anti-town and his repeated insistence that there's no possible way his empire could have scum because...reasons? also doesn't make sense. Crazyeyes seems convinced that it was the diplomats for whatever reason I don't understand. He says he isn't denying that there's scum in Legion, but when evidence is presented to him that there must be, he tries to find an alternate explanation. It doesn't make sense to me and seems to only be distracting from the conversation since it seems pretty obvious where this information came from (if not why it was given to us). They're both pretty suspicious, but I think 50's actions are more indicative of someone whining when things are going badly for them while Crazyeyes looks like he's trying to steer the conversation in non-useful ways. ##vote Crazyeyes As for scum in AU, I don't think Sandwolf did it. Like others have said, he could have covered in multiple ways from his role as diplomat. Also his reaction to the picture felt very genuine. He was both very surprised and very confused by what it meant. Byers wasn't there at all during the conversation and the person who put the picture in came in, dropped it, and left. It was information which pertained almost entirely to Legion and MediFed (with Jake thrown in) which was the topic of conversation because we were discussing the deal capps offered. So presumably the person who did it was there during that conversation. Since obviously I'm excluding myself since I'm town that leaves Hal and bowmore. Between them I'm not sure who could be the scum. They both reacted in similar ways to the information and I've had no previous reads on them so on its own I have a hard time narrowing it down. MediFed I'd have to take a closer look at since I'm not sure about them.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:11
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Also since a majority agreed in the doc to share it, here it is.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:12
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That's not my nation power. My empire can confirm.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:15
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Eight Dollars posted:Talk me through these. If Sandwolf did it, why all the crazy secrecy? How would he get the information? Unless 50 has claimed to you in the doc that he gave a whole bunch of secrets away to an enemy for nothing, how are you coming at it this way? You are asking me to explain why I think a scum Sandwolf would do something (this is not to say Sand is scum, but I have not ruled it out). I cannot do this. I can say that if I were going to orchestrate something so preposterous as this supposed leak (which we haven't seen any actual proof of, yet), I would certainly try to be the last person people thought about when it came up. That being said I have no idea why it went down as we think it did. It would be very helpful if we could actually see the image in question, though. QuoProQuid posted:Sorry to come back to this, but I just realized that your reaction to people casing and calling you out for scummy behavior was not to address those cases, but to attack the idea of equal scum distribution as though it clears you of anything. You mistake me at every turn. I am not even remotely attempting to address the cases on me. Such a defense would no doubt be taken as me either trying to backpedal or be further used and twisted to incriminate me, therefore I will not even attempt to do so. I don't think me correcting you clears me of anything. I do think it had to be said, though. Asiina posted:Also since a majority agreed in the doc to share it, here it is. I will confirm that is my power. It also seems in line with what 50 and Ernie both shared in the doc.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:22
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Asiina posted:As for scum in AU, I don't think Sandwolf did it. Like others have said, he could have covered in multiple ways from his role as diplomat. Also his reaction to the picture felt very genuine. He was both very surprised and very confused by what it meant. I will say that I reached the same conclusion as Asiina regarding the African Union. As mentioned previously, the Sandwolf-Asiina-Byers debacle looked like town players stumbling over each other and being stoked by scum. Hal's had a few posts that have given me a bad feeling, so I am inclined to suspect him. His resistance to posting that Excel sheet is also suspect in my mind. bowmore has flown under my radar and I need to reread his content. Is that picture original or did you upload it to imgur?
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Jun 12, 2014 00:24
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Having seen the image in question, I am compelled to revise my previous statements. It is not a diplomat (unless 50 is scum). I was led to believe it was Empire Win conditions leaked, not actual player roles.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:25
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QuoProQuid posted:Is that picture original or did you upload it to imgur? Original, it was posted from imgur in our doc.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:26
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Asiina posted:Also since a majority agreed in the doc to share it, here it is. "8bux" has been only used twice during the entire game. on page 1 Meinberg posted:... on page 34 Ixtlilton posted:Ah, so there's the kill they can possibly influence, even if it might eventually take out one of their own, vs. one they can't at all. Got it. The whole leak thing seems pretty nonsensical to me, outing that you have people in three empires for that return just seems like terrible play. 8bux's thing to verify it's a real leak is a good idea.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:29
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QuoProQuid posted:I will say that I reached the same conclusion as Asiina regarding the African Union. As mentioned previously, the Sandwolf-Asiina-Byers debacle looked like town players stumbling over each other and being stoked by scum. Hal's had a few posts that have given me a bad feeling, so I am inclined to suspect him. His resistance to posting that Excel sheet is also suspect in my mind. bowmore has flown under my radar and I need to reread his content. It was originally uploaded to imgur. I didn't know if it would be deleted so I immediately reuploaded it to make sure I didn't lose it. That's my reuploaded version. I went through the revision history and this is the original: http://imgur.com/CqVvvs2
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Jun 12, 2014 00:29
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That's... weird. That leak is at least wrong or off about multiple of our powers - like a game of telephone kind of thing.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:44
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Asiina posted:Also since a majority agreed in the doc to share it, here it is. Almost as if it were copied out of a PM or something. 
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Jun 12, 2014 00:47
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QuoProQuid posted:I will say that I reached the same conclusion as Asiina regarding the African Union. As mentioned previously, the Sandwolf-Asiina-Byers debacle looked like town players stumbling over each other and being stoked by scum. Hal's had a few posts that have given me a bad feeling, so I am inclined to suspect him. His resistance to posting that Excel sheet is also suspect in my mind. bowmore has flown under my radar and I need to reread his content. My resistance to posting it is in reality that should have been decided by the empires who were affected by it and not me. What do I have to gain personally from keeping it from you if I am scum? Excuse me for not wanting to out the powers of what is likely 7 town players because YOU want to see it.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:47
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Juanito posted:Ernie's ability is the only one written in the second person. Ernie aka FV
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Jun 12, 2014 00:48
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Juanito posted:random fact: Both Rarity and Meinberg have used 8bux in the doc.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:48
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Clearly we should lynch Meinberg based on these facts
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Jun 12, 2014 00:49
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DGK2000 posted:Both Rarity and Meinberg have used 8bux in the doc.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:49
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Also, out of everyone in my doc, only Meinberg wasn't around when I corrected it from a nightvig to a dayvig.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:49
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Hal Incandenza posted:Clearly we should lynch Meinberg based on these facts
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Jun 12, 2014 00:50
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Hal Incandenza posted:My resistance to posting it is in reality that should have been decided by the empires who were affected by it and not me. What do I have to gain personally from keeping it from you if I am scum? The less information the town knows, the easier it is to manipulate them. The issue is not me seeing it. The issue is that you were willing to allow the scum to have exclusive information. That's not pro-town in the slightest.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:50
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Juanito posted:Except that Meinberg is listed there too, and his name is misspelled as Meinburg. Nobody has misspelled it in this game, with the exception of the mod in the OP (it's since been fixed). Maybe Meinburg is his name in real life!
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Jun 12, 2014 00:51
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Juanito posted:Ernie's ability is the only one written in the second person. Especially since I can find no place in our doc with that phraseology. So it is unlikely someone else copied it from there.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:51
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QuoProQuid posted:The less information the town knows, the easier it is to manipulate them. The issue is not me seeing it. The issue is that you were willing to allow the scum to have exclusive information. That's not pro-town in the slightest. Isn't it all but a given that the scum were going to know everyone's power anyway? Unless people aren't telling their own empire I guess.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:52
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Ernie-Meinburg-bowmore book it.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:53
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Hal Incandenza posted:Ernie-Meinburg-bowmore book it.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:55
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Juanito posted:I'd also go for anybody who used '8bux', not '8Bux' though. wait are there more of those?
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Jun 12, 2014 00:57
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Hal Incandenza posted:wait are there more of those?
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Jun 12, 2014 00:58
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8bux as it is written in the image.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:58
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My basic thoughts on the image is that the scum is hella stupid and I want nothing more than to poo poo all over them for making that post.Hal Incandenza posted:Isn't it all but a given that the scum were going to know everyone's power anyway? No, because Hal Incandenza posted:Unless people aren't telling their own empire I guess.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:00
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Juanito posted:Except that Meinberg is listed there too, and his name is misspelled as Meinburg. Nobody has misspelled it in this game, with the exception of the mod in the OP (it's since been fixed). Meinberg is also one of the people with a completely wrong power so ???
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Jun 12, 2014 01:03
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Eight Dollars posted:Meinberg is also one of the people with a completely wrong power so ???
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Jun 12, 2014 01:05
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You do realize I don't have access to either of those docs, right?
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Jun 12, 2014 01:06
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Ixtlilton posted:You do realize I don't have access to either of those docs, right?
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Jun 12, 2014 01:06
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Yeah that's mostly for the general peanut gallery. Capps, did you tell anybody these powers were ours?
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Jun 12, 2014 01:07
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Juanito posted:Which docs? The one from the screenshot? The one it was posted in, and the other empire doc with the powers are from.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:07
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Ixtlilton posted:You do realize I don't have access to either of those docs, right? Anyone could forward a link to the doc. I know the Imperial doc can be shared via "anyone who has link" level access.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:08
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Ixtlilton posted:The one it was posted in, and the other empire doc with the powers are from.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:09
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Eight Dollars posted:Yeah that's mostly for the general peanut gallery. nope
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Jun 12, 2014 01:09
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Crazyeyes posted:Anyone could forward a link to the doc. I know the Imperial doc can be shared via "anyone who has link" level access. That would be a modkillable offense.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:09
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Ixtlilton posted:That would be a modkillable offense. Yes it would. I think it unlikely that is what happened for that reason. I agree with Juanito. More likely a scumdoc screenshot after the info is compiled.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:11
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Crazyeyes posted:Anyone could forward a link to the doc. I know the Imperial doc can be shared via "anyone who has link" level access. Except official docs have mod information in them, which is forbidden. This is clearly somebody's (scum's) notes.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:11
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