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tinkerttoy posted:What good roguelikes are there for Android that aren't Hoplite or Pixel Dungeon? There's a POWDER port, but it's not on google play. You have to search the web for it and it will come up. It's free.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:19
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Suddenly I have the urge to make an RoRRL Where do I start?
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Jul 21, 2014 04:30
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Tollymain posted:Suddenly I have the urge to make an RoRRL Download Unity -> Look up RL tutorials.
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Jul 21, 2014 05:43
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I know it's kinda old to the thread, but Rogue Legacy is coming out on PS4 soon, and I was looking for the Goonmind™ opinion. Worth full price? Replayable much?
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Jul 21, 2014 12:33
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I really enjoy Rogue Legacy, though I haven't beaten it yet. A while back, I posted that I really didn't enjoy Delver, but I tried it out again. I gave it more time than I had before, and once I got used to the fact that, as much as I wanted it to, it didn't control like Minecraft despite feeling like it should, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I didn't get very far, but that's ok; I'm glad I didn't come to the end of it or anything. Would recommend, at least with the mention that it is early access, so it's not finished yet.
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Jul 21, 2014 14:16
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The only thing rogue legacy has that makes it similar to other roguelikelikelikes is the word "rogue" in the title, but it's a fun game regardless of that, worth a few bucks. I dunno if I'd bother paying full price for it on ps4 though, seems like a steam sale/bundle sort of game to me, it's pretty repetitive in my eyes.
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Jul 21, 2014 14:21
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Bouchacha posted:Yeah Arcen acknowledged that it didn't really sell well enough to continue working on it, so it's abandoned: http://arcengames.com/followup-to-last-years-ai-war-postmortem-now-discussing-bionic-tlf-etc/ Hadn't seen that article, and it was a good read. It still boggles me that Arcen is confused as to why people who were originally excited for a prettier Valley 1 ended up really disliking Valley 2, even though they changed pretty much everything as far as play-style goes. There was just something about those weird recursive procedurally-generated maps from Valley 1 that appealed to my inner explorer, and that was totally missing from 2...
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Jul 21, 2014 17:40
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tinkerttoy posted:What good roguelikes are there for Android that aren't Hoplite or Pixel Dungeon? Uhhhhh. There aren't really many good roguelikes, what kind of roguelikes do you like?
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Jul 21, 2014 20:56
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Dungeon Crawl is on Android, not sure how well it plays.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:13
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Bouchacha posted:Dungeon Crawl is on Android, not sure how well it plays. It's playable but goes annoyingly slow if you're on a phone, since you don't have all your keys available at once. The touchscreen controls are also a little finicky, so a few missteps are common.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:37
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The best way to play crawl on your phone is with ssh to an online server, but its still not great. Brogue works a lot better on phone since there are many buttons needed in its interface.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:45
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Seedge posted:I know it's kinda old to the thread, but Rogue Legacy is coming out on PS4 soon, and I was looking for the Goonmind™ opinion. Worth full price? Replayable much? Depends on what you like. As mentioned it doesn't share a lot with traditional roguelikes beyond death being common. That said, I enjoyed it. It's a fun platformer without being too frustrating or easy. The whole "farting colorblind dwarf" thing isn't as big a part of the game as you might think. You get three character choices every time you start with a different combination of classes and traits so you'll usually be able to avoid any significant disadvantagous traits and picking the few significantly advantageous traits. The various runes and equipment you collect are much more important.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:26
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Seedge posted:I know it's kinda old to the thread, but Rogue Legacy is coming out on PS4 soon, and I was looking for the Goonmind™ opinion. Worth full price? Replayable much? Regardless of the debates over "what is a roguelike", permadeath is an essential element to the genre. Generally speaking, there must be a condition where you can lose the game and be forced to start over. In rogue legacy, when you die, not only do you keep everything you have, but it's actually the only time in the game where you can level up. The dungeon layout is randomized on each life, but your progress through it (boss kills) is retained. That said, it's an ok platformer.
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Jul 22, 2014 13:06
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Heads up, Crypt of the NecroDancer, the rhythm roguelike, releases on July 30th on Steam for $15. You can also get instant access now if you donate $100 to a thing they're doing called the NecroThon - charity drive/livestream competition thing, $75 goes to charity and $25 to the casters. quote:PLEASE NOTE: We are very aware that $100 is an insane amount to pay to get a game just a few days early! NecroDancer will be sold via Steam for only $14.99 on July 30th, which is very soon
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Jul 22, 2014 16:05
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EvilMike posted:Regardless of the debates over "what is a roguelike", permadeath is an essential element to the genre. Generally speaking, there must be a condition where you can lose the game and be forced to start over. In rogue legacy, when you die, not only do you keep everything you have, but it's actually the only time in the game where you can level up. The dungeon layout is randomized on each life, but your progress through it (boss kills) is retained. No permadeath in Tome4 you have lives. Or are you saying Super Mario is a roguelike?
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Jul 23, 2014 08:21
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Yep, that's what he's saying. What a jerk!
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Jul 23, 2014 09:29
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Turtlicious posted:No permadeath in Tome4 you have lives. Or are you saying Super Mario is a roguelike? oh my loving god
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Jul 23, 2014 10:08
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Turtlicious posted:No permadeath in Tome4 you have lives. Or are you saying Super Mario is a roguelike? Well if you put it that way... brb programming SuperMRL, where the character sprite changes color and is assigned a new name every game.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:55
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Mercury_Storm posted:Well if you put it that way... Now just change the ?s to give randomized loot...
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Jul 23, 2014 10:56
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Turtlicious posted:No permadeath in Tome4 you have lives. Or are you saying Super Mario is a roguelike? There's a one-life mode in ToME if you want to be special.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:57
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German Joey posted:oh my loving god Here we go! I hope the insane guy that had a list with like 20 things a game needed to qualify as a roguelike weighs in again!
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Jul 23, 2014 12:20
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I would play the poo poo out of a Super Mario roguelike. That said, that game doesn't exist so far.
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Jul 23, 2014 13:21
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The problem with defining roguelike is that we haven't even properly defined "Genre" or "Game" yet, and probably never will.
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Jul 23, 2014 13:50
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I would play the poo poo out of a Super Mario roguelike. You could play Super Mario RPG and erase your save if you ever lose a battle! Clearly a roguelike.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:44
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Can we ban the word 'roguelike' from the roguelike thread?
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Jul 23, 2014 15:45
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Farquar posted:Can we ban the word 'roguelike' from the roguelike thread? I'd prefer auto-replacing all instances of it with "festooned abacus" tbqh
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Jul 23, 2014 15:49
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Farquar posted:Can we ban the word 'roguelike' from the roguelike thread? Procedural Death Labyrinths for everyone!
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Jul 23, 2014 16:13
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I was being ironic. Sorry.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:24
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Oh hell 14 new posts in the GOD DAMMIT ok. Now considering adding a Festooned Abacus to dmans-- not before I get Doomtalker in 
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Jul 23, 2014 17:25
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Festooned Abacus is pretty rad tbh.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:40
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Potsticker posted:Festooned Abacus is pretty rad tbh. I'm voting for this, honestly.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:44
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Turtlicious posted:No permadeath in Tome4 you have lives. Or are you saying Super Mario is a roguelike? There is permadeath if you run out of lives and there is a hardcore option where you only have 1 life. Regardless of which mode you play, it's possible to lose the game. Normal mode just makes it take longer. Have you actually played rogue legacy? When you die in that game, you don't lose _anything_, and it is literally impossible to, because the entire progression mechanic is tied to dying. I'm not arguing this is a bad thing, just that there is no in-game way to actually lose. EvilMike fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 18:27
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As a counterpoint to this thread's comments; I had someone seriously state that T4 does not fit their personal definition of Roguelike(in the ToME chat room on IRC yet.) I summarily laughed my rear end off at him, mostly because he randomly volunteered this out of the blue and was, to my mind, clearly looking for a fight about it. Basically what I'm saying is this should be the standard reaction to these discussions. Just laugh. Good stuff can definitely come out of them, and I'm always fascinated by some of the things people consider intrinsic to Roguelikes and can't help but ask some questions. But mostly they're just silly rehashes of the same definition clashes. (Having hit on one of those fascinating questions right now; How much death do you need to count as permadeath? Nethack has Amulets of Life Saving, for example. T4 does have an infinite lives mode, that requires donations to unlock, and hence gets played far less. Does having any form of post-death progression cheapen this? It's perfectly possible to have something like Dungeonmans Academy that is much higher powered. In fact, you can pretty much stomp the earlygame of Desktop Dungeons thanks to the town mechanic, and that progression is largely required for some of the most insane dungeons. Etc. etc., you get the idea of why this interests me now probably.) Rogue Legacy is a fun Metroidvania with procedural generation in dungeons. It sadly is lacking on depth and could have used some more bake time, or possibly a sequel, so that there's more gear traits and the like to make strategic play more interesting. If you are looking for shared elements between it and Nethack, it will probably come up a bit short. That's a good assessment of it, to me.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:05
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as I will keep repeating, it's a lot closer to rogue than it is nethack, because it has the word rogue in the title multiple but still finite lives are fine, after crawl is still a roguelike when you play felids... Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 19:17
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SageAcrin posted:Rogue Legacy is a fun Metroidvania with procedural generation in dungeons. If you're looking for a term that's gotten overused to the point of meaninglessness, "Metroidvania" is far more of an offender than "roguelike" IMO. Where in Rogue Legacy do you get powerups that specifically enable you to access parts of the map that were previously inaccessible? You can go anywhere with a level-1 character if you're good at dodging. My personal definition (  ) of "Metroidvania" is "an exploration-centric game in which you gain new abilities that in addition to making you more powerful also allow you to access more of the map in an organic fashion" but these days it's applied to literally every game whose content-gating mechanic is more complex than "find the blue key to open the blue lock", regardless of how heavily they constrain your exploration or how blunt the gates are. Not that I'll claim that the Metroids and Castlevanias don't have very blunt gates at times (open green doors with super missiles, etc.), but ideally the gates should have some degree of verisimilitude to them.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:59
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i know the roguelike debate is overplayed, and im sure the metroidvania one is too, but the debate over which of the two is more commonly misused is just starting to sizzle
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Jul 23, 2014 20:04
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To add to the flames of 'what is or isn't a roguelike' I want to point out a cool as hell game I got yesterday called Abyss Odyssey. It's developed by a Chilean dev studio called ACE Team and is published by Atlus. The general idea is that it's a procedurally generated platformer where the combat is reminiscent of Super Smash Bros., oddly enough. Nearly every enemy is like a slightly weaker fighting game character in themselves and the combat revolves around using all the tools at your disposal to fight them, because they're going to use their own. There's three characters to play as, each with a fighting style unique to them. You can also get up to 6 different 'special skills' for each and can equip up to three at a time. The SSB comparison really hits hard there in that they're assigned to directions you press when you press the special attack button, and using skill points you can even upgrade them as you please to add different stuff as simple as more damage or even defensive frames when you're in the middle of the animation for it. The crazy part is that you can acquire the souls of your enemies during a runthrough and use them to actually play as basically every enemy in the game, and each has a relatively unique playstyle as well along with three special attacks of their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtKd6paqhEg It was a bit of a slow burn at first when I was learning the mechanics, but once I started unlocking the other characters and getting the hang of it it got to be really fun. A really cool bit is that the devs are tracking how many times players have beaten the final boss overall and once it reaches a certain number one of his masks will break and they'll release new content into the game to...do something, I suppose. No one's really sure what it'll consist of, and the first mask is about halfway broken. To be honest, if Rogue Legacy has been brought up more than a few times then this is more than worthy of a mention at the very least. (I've had more fun with it, as well.) Thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3651072
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Jul 23, 2014 20:26
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Klaus Kinski posted:Here we go! Yes, a list so insane and convoluted that it consists of a single line: if the game plays and feels similar enough to the game "Rogue" then it is in the "Roguelike" genre, if it does not then it is not.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:33
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I still think the only reason these absurd lists about what is and what is not a roguelike exist, and of course all the haggling and bickering about them, is because - making a generalization of us here - roguelike gamers live and die by stressing rules to their extremes. So, when some rear end in a top hat markets his fps, or a platformer like Rogue Legacy, as a "roguelike" to leverage the word roguelike's reputation of meaning "carefully designed + hardcore" to the gaming community at large, the average roguelikers response is to go "*pushing up glasses* Well you see here, by bylaw 3.4.5.23 of Section 13 of the second editon of the Berlin Interpretation Accords, your game fails to live up to necessary and sufficient condition regarding the..." instead of just smashing the dude's head to a pulp like that guy from Riki-Oh, figuratively speaking. Once a list has been established, the marketeer has a way to rule-lawyer their way to a sort of neutral "he-said-she-said" position where the formerly defacto argument of "your game is obviously loving nothing like any commonly accepted roguelike and therefore is not a roguelike?" matters not at all any longer.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:52
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quote:If you're looking for a term that's gotten overused to the point of meaninglessness, "Metroidvania" is far more of an offender than "roguelike" IMO. Where in Rogue Legacy do you get powerups that specifically enable you to access parts of the map that were previously inaccessible? You can go anywhere with a level-1 character if you're good at dodging. Well, Fairy Chests are often not accessible with your base loadout. (Even some normal chests aren't.) Still, fair enough. Let's toss some more hilarious things in here, like how Zelda is/is not an RPG or why Racing is a genre separate from Sports. Strictly defining genres to the point of setting down an absolute coda of laws for it is for the birds. The extremely obsessive compulsive birds. (I'm personally just not into it, but I like reading people's reasoning when there's actually a logic chain behind it.) SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 23:35
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