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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Immigrants angle is down to a guy called Lawrence Miles Oh for gently caress's sake. Okay, it makes sense now. 
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Aug 3, 2014 02:09
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MrL_JaKiri posted:you like some Doctor Who episodes but don't like some other ones Whenever the new main Doctor Who thread gets made this should be the title.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:41
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Jerusalem posted:Whenever the new main Doctor Who thread gets made this should be the title. That or "LISTEN! (to Big Finish)"
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Aug 3, 2014 03:26
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Jerusalem posted:
Seconded
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Aug 3, 2014 03:30
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Doctor Who "Aliens of London" Series 1, Episode 4 This really is an absolutely wretched episode of television. Just completely unredeemable garbage in absolutely every way, pure and utter trash. The entire plot of this episode can be summed up accurately within a sentence: The Doctor and Rose arrive back on Earth, only to find out that a shadowy cabal of aliens in human skinsuits have infiltrated the highest levels of the British government and are planning an invasion of earth. This pathetic excuse of a plot thread somehow was dragged out and dragged out for forty-five loving minutes, and it's so very, very clear at numerous points throughout "Aliens of London" that they're simply stalling for time, as each scene goes on for minutes on end. The episode is just a loving quagmire; from minute ten of the episode, literally, the audience knows exactly what is going on but the episode just drags its loving feet from reaching the climax. This episode is all the worse because it's the first half of a two-parter, so much of the stalling is clearly to build to a forced and awful cliffhanger (The Doctor, and Rose, and Rose's Mom are about to die from the evil aliens! What will happen?!). This is storytelling at its most absolute abysmal, as everyone involved in this laughable excuse for an episode of television just threw their hands up and called it quits halfway through breaking it. There's no there there, nothing loving happens. Sure, the episode opens somewhat interestingly: Rose returns home, only to find that she has not been away for 12 hours, as the Doctor previously stated, but for twelve months. Her mom is, as expected, absolutely shocked that Rose is back, but the parental reunion is cut somewhat short as an alien spaceship crashes into Big Ben and lands in the River Thames. It's at this point that the episode completely turns to garbage (which is impressive, as it's barely five minutes in), because the Doctor and Rose are unable to make it through the police/military barricades surrounding the crash site to find out what, exactly, is going on. So, instead, Rose and the Doctor return to Rose's house to watch the proceeding events on the telly. Now, this is an altogether reasonable solution to an altogether logical problem, but at zero point before now has Doctor Who ever concerned itself with being reasonable or logical, and the fact that the main characters suddenly have to deal with completely mundane problems screams of both cost-cutting and barefaced stalling. So at this point we, the audience, spend literally ten loving minutes watching the heroes of the show watching television. At this point the episode has anti-stakes, it's so turgid and slow. It's all the worse because the aliens are revealed for who they are right in the middle of the television watching sequence- essentially they're babyfaced fat people in human skinsuits who've infiltrated the highest levels of the government -but because that sequence wasn't filmed on the television, we're forced to endure thirty-plus minutes of the Doctor slowly putting all the pieces together as we, the audience, desperately wish for forward action which never arrives. On top of it all, the episode is just plain stupid (and not fun stupid, offensively stupid), from start to finish. There's some female MP character who only exists to be an irritating nag who finds the top secret alien plans and their deep, dark secret, who then does absolutely nothing of value with this information until the very last scene of the episode. The aliens, themselves, constantly loving fart, which makes an already desperately uninteresting slog downright insulting as we're watching sub Three Stooges bits from the quote-on-quote "evil aliens". There's a whole sideplot about finding out about the (soon revealed to be a red herring) downed alien spaceship that ending with a pig puppet in an astronaut costume running around a lab. It's all unfunny, uninteresting, slow garbage. Worse, too, is the fact that when the show isn't clearly stalling to force a cliffhanger, or doing nothing whatsoever, or is actively patronizing its audience, its forced melodrama. They try to force a subplot about Rose's mom confronting her over being gone for a year, and Rose struggling with the resultant feelings of guilt, except none of it really works because Billie Piper isn't a good actress and nobody gives a poo poo about Rose's Mom, she's barely a character in the first place. This episode isn't even fun bad, like I was kind of expecting it to be about halfway through; like, so bad it's good. This episode doesn't have enough happen in it to be so bad it's good, so instead it's just boring, dull, glacial television. To the episode's credit, there's a little scene about midway through where Mickey shows how much he missed Rose for the year she was gone, that works at least relatively well and had some decent emotion throughout. Quite frankly, though, it was just too little, too late for an otherwise absolutely terrible episode of television. Christ. Grade: F Random Thoughts:
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Aug 3, 2014 04:28
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This thread is magical. 
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Aug 3, 2014 04:40
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Doctor Who "Aliens of London" Series 1, Episode 4 ...yup. Let me cut to the chase - why is this episode? Not what is it, that's been summarized well enough, but why did this two-parter have to land right after what could be considered the Doctor Who tutorial? What manner of prion writhing inside Davies' skull could have hatched the idea that ninety god damned minutes of cardboard side characters, a fatally top-heavy plot, and flatulent aliens would be an adequate follow-up? Let it never be forgotten that Doctor Who is a show for children, but for God's sakes, man, at least keep us safely at junior-high level. This episode lies in some shallow lagoon turned yellow with first-grader pee. The one high point lands right at the beginning, where Rose materializes, to her surprise and her mother Jackie's horror, a full year after she originally takes off with the Doctor. This little moment illustrates an important lesson that the show often reiterates and the Doctor's companions often forget - for all his quirky high-energy super-competence, the Doctor is really kind of a putz. He's an ADD-addled, millennium-old child gallivanting around in the time machine equivalent of a Ford jalopy, and despite his impressive record of world-saving he tends to badly inconvenience the people around him. The split-second reaction of Jackie, haggard in her dressing gown and surrounded by posters of her vanished daughter, might be her best-acted moment in the series (and God help us for that, because she's got plenty more to come). It's actually kind of wrenching, and puts a sour note on the Doctor's free-wheeling adventurous spirit. Of course, that all gets deflated in the very next scene by Rose, who acts like a petulant child who's been caught sneaking in through her bedroom window and sees absolutely nothing wrong with that. This episode is where a lot of Rose's worst flaws start coming into sharp relief: first, she's a blatant creator's pet, bludgeoning the script into compliance with her whims despite her thin personality and thinner acting chops. The burgeoning love triangle presenting itself here is especially ridiculous - the Doctor is nine hundred years old and knew this lady for four days, you'd think he would gently point out that he has seen the other fish in the sea up to and including Nessie and she might be scraping her buck teeth against the wrong tree, but no, we get to see the quiet feud between him, Rose, and Mickey develop in agonizing detail. Second is Rose's satellite cast - for quite a while, wherever she goes, Jackie and Mickey are rarely far behind, and both of them are far less tolerable than even Rose herself. Jackie's base setting is a shrill, unlikable nag (which is loving bewildering given that she has every reason to be furious at the Doctor and the show still never takes a second to see things from her end), and Mickey is a soppy hole in space in the rough shape of a person. The fact that he was hounded as a murder suspect for a year is quickly brought up and forgiven in the span of one disconcertingly toothy smile from Rose. There are species of lichen with more backbone than Mickey's got. Oh God, I'm like three full paragraphs in and I'm still not even at the plot yet. This is the kind of crap I meant when I said Davies is a prisoner of his own ambition; he wants to do these big epic stories, full of secondary characters and grand world-threatening opponents, but the bigger he goes, the worse his execution becomes. As the Doctor points out, this is the first example of wide-scale human contact with aliens, a momentous event both for Earth and for the TV series, and what we get is a terribly CGI'd spaceship, a pig in a spacesuit, and a gaggle of aliens who do have names but will, for expediency, be referred to as Fartbutts. The Fartbutts do bring a little jowly fun across with their performances, but the tooting gags are bargain-basement stuff and the aliens themselves are poorly designed even by this show's standards. This is our first contact? You can only make a first impression once! THEY LITERALLY STUFFED THE PRIME MINISTER'S LITERAL BODY IN A LITERAL CUPBOARD! There's not much else to say that can't be found in Occupation's wailing. Harriet Jones (Penelope Wilton) does turn in a decent performance in my opinion, and the dogged perseverance of one well-meaning clerk trying to do her job properly in the face of international upheaval definitely makes for a better little story than what we've got here. Beyond that, this two-parter almost turned me off the series as a whole (and what a loss that would have been, indeed, indeed), and given its place in the series, can't even be considered a misstep. This is like tripping over a rock hard enough to break free of Earth's gravity and fly into the sun. 45 more minutes to go.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:49
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Aliens of London is pretty terrible. If anyone but Eccleston had been the Doctor, I'd never have gotten into it. But, boy, is most of Eccleston's season terrible aside from his acting elevating the story. (Now I like all the Doctors, mainly for their acting.)
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Aug 3, 2014 04:58
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:This poo poo is fuckin weird, I was expectin a bunch of "THIS SHOW RULES gently caress YOU OCC" and instead it's "yeah doctor who sucks a lot/mostly but once you get to know him he's a really lovely guy. I got this bruise from walking into a cabinet, it's bigger on the inside... E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:Christ. Now you know why.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:12
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One more episode until the show comes to you in the rain and tries to apologize about how it's changed for the better and doesn't drink anymore.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:36
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Like I said Season 1 is really weak for the most part. I guess they wanted to play it safe for the first season for both budgetary reasons and also they weren't sure this show would ever take off. This two parter is proof of that. It's a fairly generic plot with a fairly forgettable solution. gently caress I don't even remember how this even ends to be honest.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:29
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A show about crazy science fiction adventures in space and every single episode thus far has been set on Earth except the one that merely revolved around it.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:42
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David D. Davidson posted:Like I said Season 1 is really weak for the most part. I guess they wanted to play it safe for the first season for both budgetary reasons and also they weren't sure this show would ever take off. This two parter is proof of that. It's a fairly generic plot with a fairly forgettable solution. gently caress I don't even remember how this even ends to be honest. It ends with an improbable feat of hacking that makes no loving sense and demonstrates little understanding of what hacking is, because of course.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:44
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The funny thing is, I don't even think this is the worst "hilariously incompetent aliens surreptitiously try and conquer the Earth" episode, or even two-parter. God bless you, Oxxipation.
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Aug 3, 2014 09:01
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First Bass posted:The funny thing is, I don't even think this is the worst "hilariously incompetent aliens surreptitiously try and conquer the Earth" episode, or even two-parter. God bless you, Oxxipation. gently caress, you had to remind me.
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Aug 3, 2014 09:09
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Conversation between me and my goon DW fan friend who is way smarter than me but won't post in this thread for some reason!!!!!!! Some of this might be stuff you only find out in part 2, I can't rememberquote:Bown:
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Aug 3, 2014 13:23
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Bown's friend posted:RTD never bothers figuring out how a post-alien world would be This would be my number one problem with the RTD years if it wasn't for that awful poo poo at the end of season 4 with Rose on the beach. He wanted to create a post-alien world where the cat was out of the bag and everybody now knew and accepted that alien life forms existed and were aware of Earth and that some of them were pretty hostile with bad intentions.... but he also wanted the modern day London of the show to remain basically a mirror image of the real world.
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Aug 3, 2014 14:25
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If it wasn't for the nostalgia factor I think I would have quit watching after this episode. But it gets better! Or at least the decent episodes feel awesome when stuck between poo poo...
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Aug 3, 2014 16:23
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That is an awfully tortured justification for farting aliens.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:42
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Spatula City posted:That is an awfully tortured justification for farting aliens. For all bad things in Series 1, I blame Keith Boak, who directed Rose and this two-parter. His behind-the-scenes attitude convinced Eccleston to leave and he introduced loads of dumb, childish jokes like farts and burps into the episodes he directed.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:53
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He didn't introduce them as far as I know (that would involve a lot of script changing), but he played to them a lot.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:25
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:
To be fair you get the same sentiment from Trek fans too ("Oh yeah, just skip the first 1-2 seasons of TNG/DS9 and then it gets really good!").
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Aug 4, 2014 23:47
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computer parts posted:To be fair you get the same sentiment from Trek fans too ("Oh yeah, just skip the first 1-2 seasons of TNG/DS9 and then it gets really good!"). This also extends to "But the classic stuff is ace!" "Hey wasn't there some mildly to majorly racist stuff in X EPISODE HERE and some sexist stuff everywhere?" "Yeah but"
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Aug 5, 2014 00:14
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VagueRant posted:A show about crazy science fiction adventures in space and every single episode thus far has been set on Earth except the one that merely revolved around it. This is a money thing, partly. Staying on Earth saves cash and at the outset there were a lot of real concerns about how you could do a show with even vaguely contemporary production values on a reasonable budget.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:35
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And partly because RTD's general point of view was "the Zogs on Planet Zog are being threatened by the Zog-monster - but who cares?"
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Aug 5, 2014 00:41
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Maxwell Lord posted:This is a money thing, partly. Staying on Earth saves cash and at the outset there were a lot of real concerns about how you could do a show with even vaguely contemporary production values on a reasonable budget. And it's still a step up from shooting 70% of the show in quarries.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:41
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thexerox123 posted:And it's still a step up from shooting 70% of the show in quarries. Cardiff is better than a quarry?
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Aug 5, 2014 00:55
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Irish Joe posted:Cardiff is better than a quarry? Cardiff is a very nice place. Sunlight until 11 PM in the summertime, beautiful bay... you could do worse!
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Aug 5, 2014 01:12
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DoctorWhat posted:Cardiff is a very nice place. Sunlight until 11 PM in the summertime This is an attribute of all of the UK, including its quarries. I dare say it's actually less true of Cardiff than the quarries, since Cardiff made the poor decision to be in Wales and is therefore more likely to be getting rained on at any given time than the quarries.
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Aug 5, 2014 02:42
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Doctor Who "World War Three" Series 1, Episode 5 It's amazing how absolutely bad the second part of the two-parter is, in the exact opposite way that "Aliens of London" was absolutely terrible. "Aliens" was an episode built entirely around stalling, around steadfastly refusing to explain anything beyond its initial premise, instead focusing on red herrings and forced melodrama. We never get an answer for why, exactly, the Slitheen have spent all this time on a ridiculously convoluted plan, why they've endured the skinsuits and the attendant farting that comes from wearing them (because of the gas transfer, the episode strenuously notes, to the point of self-parody). What's their endgoal, why have they spent so much time infiltrating the British government? Well, "World War Three" answers all of those questions, and more. In the abstract, the Slitheens' plot is actually kind of interesting- essentially, they want permission to fire nukes to "counter the alien threat" (which, as noted previously, was a red herring cooked up by the Slitheen), but instead they'll aim those same nukes at other nuclear powers, kickstarting the titular World War Three. After the Earth is reduced to radioactive dust, the Slitheen plan to swoop in and sell off the glowing husk off as essentially one huge oil mine, to other interstellar companies looking for cheap fuel. There's a lot of conceptually interesting stuff, there- obviously the conflict is meant to be one huge (rather unsubtle) analogy to the Iraq War, and even the character design on the Slitheen- them being quite literal fat, piggish politicans- plays into this narrative nicely. The problem with this idea is the fact that it's all conceptually interesting. In execution, "World War Three" is a mess of idiotic plot points and brazen character idiocy at every turn. To contrast to the in my opinion much superior episode "Unquiet Dead", the plot of this episode is roughly as idiotic and plothole-filled as the former- well, maybe a little more, to be quite honest -but with "Unquiet Dead", the writing staff was completely and utterly aware of how little sense the overall plot made and focused on character interactions. In comparison, "World War Three" is so self-satisfied with its rather rote political analogy that it places the plot front and center, so the audience is forced to question the logic- or rather, the complete and utter lack of logic -the episode provides. And the thing is, with this episode there's just so many logical fallacies. This isn't a needle in a haystack- this is hay in a needlestack, and roughly as painful. I have so many questions after viewing this episode: Why do the Slitheen spend so much of their collective time this episode telling the Doctor what their evil plan is? For a group meant to be cartoonishly calculating, this seems like an utterly asinine decision to make. Why is every single access code that the Doctor needs, from a top-secret information database to access to the Royal Navy, to, quite literally, the ability to fire missiles remotely, the word "buffalo". I mean, I understand being able to ingeniously hack to get the information needed is just a trope at this point but that's just flat-out lazy storytelling, making every password exactly the same and The Doctor able to automagically know what that password is for no adequately explained reason. The narrative conceit of "needing the UN for approval to launch nukes" (this is why the Slitheen launched the red herring spacecraft, so the UN would be scared into giving approval) sounds fishy as it's being said- I'm sorry but I doubt any nuclear power, especially one of the five permanent members of the fuckin' UN Security Council needs permission from the UN to launch nukes, since that completely and utterly defeats the point of both nukes as a force deterrent and MAD as an operational philosophy. And finally and most importantly, the climax of the episode is centered around blowing up Downing Street (which all the Slitheens have foolishly gathered in one office of) to rid the Slitheen threat, except right after the episode treats the event as if the problems have been resolved- but, at no point was it revealed to the world at large what the Slitheens actually were, so as far as anyone is aware all of Britain's leadership just got blown up by a missile just as they were about to launch an offensive strike against aliens. Like...wouldn't anyone be mislead into thinking that the aliens just attacked first, like...a pre-emptive strike? It's rather insane that everyone regards Britain's seat of power being destroyed with, at most, a shrug of their shoulders "Let's get some tea, shall we?" I mean, I know the British are a serious and guarded people, stiff upper lip and all that, but that's just loving absurd. It's all the worse since the inciting, (false) event for why the Slitheens-in-disguise need "nuclear permission" boils down to "We found a super weapon in space that will destroy us all", which the global community buys without a second thought, implying that every other global superpower doesn't have as powerful satellites or telescopes or some poo poo that Britain does. And again, I wouldn't have cared about all these plot holes if the episode didn't place them front and center. The episode is so self-satisfied with crafting a (to its eyes) brilliant, bulletproof narrative, that when it's revealed to be a papier-mâché piece of garbage, the entire episode falls apart because that's all this episode gives a poo poo about. When the episode isn't focused on its utterly garbage plot, its focused on the adventures of Mickey and Jackie, which is so utterly boring as to not even warrant a mention- despite a full quarter of its running time spent on a nowhere sideplot between the two of them. It's all the more a shame because when it's not focused on its ridiculous nonsense narrative payoffs and the adventures of human voids Mickey and Jackie, there's some good stuff in there. In particular, the scene where the Doctor decides to shoot a missile at Downing Street (which he, Harriet, and Rose are all trapped in) has some really good interplay between the three characters, capped off with this remarkably powerful line: "Do you think I don't know that? Because this is my life, Jackie. It's not fun, it's not smart, it's just standin' up and makin' a decision. Because nobody else will." Within that line, The Doctor is able to accurately sum up his conflicting feelings about the danger he's putting Rose in, but the inherent necessity of that danger. It's a powerful statement, and is a nice thesis for Doctor Who as a whole. Unfortunately, that line can't save an otherwise terrible episode that makes narrative missteps at literally every turn. Grade: F Random Thoughts:
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Aug 5, 2014 03:56
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:[*] This is the end of Mickey, and his boring-rear end unimportant sideplots right? Right?... Yeah don't worry, there's no more Mickey.
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Aug 5, 2014 04:05
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Doctor Who "World War Three" Series 1, Episode 5 The problems with "Aliens of London" persist in this one, though since it's now the follow-through to a very lengthy, stupid build-up, this means we get a lot of "action" sequences that are anything but thanks to the limited budget and cramped sets. A goodly chunk of this episode is chase scenes (as usual), except now they take place in the hallways of Downing Street and Jackie Tyler's kitchen nook, neither of which could comfortably accommodate three people standing shoulder-to-shoulder, so we get a lot of screaming and camera-waving as a substitute for anything interesting happening. The Doctor spends most of the episode locked in a cupboard (a metaphorical cupboard, not the literal one the Prime Minister's corpse was shoved into). The Slitheen/Fartbutt suits are cumbersome and inexpressive. We spend some time watching Mickey pro-actively surf the Internet. It's all dreadfully dull. Occupation covered the numerous plot pratfalls in this thing - I'm not certain if knowing the least thing about Parliament or the structure of the UN would make events seem more or less retarded, though I imagine the margin would be so thin as to be irrelevant in any case - but I need to re-iterate how ridiculous it is that the Slitheen are effectively the first alien contact with Earth; Davies will later try to pretend none of this ever happened in an episode that's somehow significantly worse in several ways, but the lovely Ms. Jones is shown spilling the beans about all the chicanery that went down in Downing Street, so the Slitheen should, by all rights, be a part of the larger human consciousness by now. What do you think would happen when a proper alien invasion happens, thousand of ships belching smoke and plasma, buzzing for the surrender of Earth in languages best left unheard? There's going to be one guy in the back who'll nervously raise his hand and go, "Er, you're not like the last bunch who came here, are you? They were fat and green and farted a lot, but we managed to kill them with pickles." And then the whole affair will be spoiled for everyone. Thanks, Rusty. Eccleston tries his best with what he's been given, but he can only act so much when the plot around him won't slow the gently caress down. His little nods and winks bring some much-needed charm to the episode, and the scene where he, Rose, and Harriet frantically deduce the Slitheen's species as one rips down Jackie's door was memorable if not exactly brilliant. On the other hand, the Terrible Trio of Rose/Jackie/Mickey spend most of the episode in their usual drawling daze, only waking up for the final act. The post-explosion scenes are the only decent ones of the episode, regardless of what Occupation thinks (Occ thinks many wrong things, like "Gamzee was the best troll in Homestuck"). With Davies' madcap bullshit finally receding, the actors get a chance to actually act for a little bit, and the way Jackie gradually warms up to the Doctor only to have the moment cut short when Rose immediately takes off again with barely a word of explanation is a little bit heartbreaking. This is the first time (though I might just be projecting) that Rose's "TIME ADVENTURES WITH HOT ALIEN NORTHERNER" kick is actually shown to be a negative thing, instead of just a plot point to be breezed over - even the Doctor is unable to say with a straight face that he'll be able to keep her out of mortal peril, but she's so busy mooning over him that she completely neglects the people who've cared for her all her life, whereas she's known the Doctor for just, ooh, let's call it the better part of a week. As I've said before, my main issue with Davies is that he almost always wants to go big, and the bigger he goes, the dumber he gets, and rarely in a fun way. This two-parter sums up how he means to go on for the rest of his tenure, barring a few moments of actual skill/brilliance, depending on who you're asking. Sprawling, bloated, ramshackle plots, way too many side characters, huge stakes that are ultimately glossed over or at least never given the gravitas they deserve. Lots of heart, very little brain. At least he'll tone down the farting from this point on. Little spoiler for you all, right there. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 04:18
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But he doesn't tone down the big. Also the thing Occ is wrong about with Homestuck is having read any amount of Homestuck especially enough to have an opinion about any of it, right
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Aug 5, 2014 08:16
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based on occ's grades, it looks like Last Man Standing is the better show. 
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Aug 5, 2014 19:17
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jneen posted:based on occ's grades, it looks like Last Man Standing is the better show. The next few episodes may even out the ratings a bit. They're through the worst stretch of this season, at least.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:20
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thexerox123 posted:The next few episodes may even out the ratings a bit. They're through the worst stretch of this season, at least. Oh, he's going to freak the gently caress out about Bad Wolf.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:24
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I was trying to remember what's so bad about Bad Wolf and then I remembered and ohhhhhh no
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Aug 5, 2014 19:50
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If any of you mutters one syllable about it I will wreak a terrible revenge, so help me God.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:21
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Oxxidation posted:If any of you mutters one syllable about it I will wreak a terrible revenge, so help me God. Oh let me guess: it's an episode of doctor who
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Aug 5, 2014 20:22
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:Oh let me guess: it's an episode of doctor who The Big Bad Wolf is made real due to a TARDIS malfunction and he beats up Charles Dickens for making that "What the Shakespeare!" joke. Guest starring Tim Allen as the wolf, who for some reason spouts random phrases related to gender essentialism as the Doctor pats him on the back and shares a beer. Sorry, oxxidation, I had to spoil it.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:33
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