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Kingnothing posted:Sound is not disabled as you can use voice over in recovery. To enter recovery press cmd+r at boot (or opt+cmd+r if that doesn't work), then just adjust the volume with the keyboard. Oh, I've checked that, it's showing clear. I made sure to basically strip away everything but the essentials to rule out something draining it at an abnormal rate.  I use the current version of 10.9, so it's not a weird beta issue either.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:14
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Does the condition of the battery show as normal when you option-click the battery icon in the menu bar?
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Aug 9, 2014 00:19
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Thauros posted:Oh, I've checked that, it's showing clear. I made sure to basically strip away everything but the essentials to rule out something draining it at an abnormal rate. Well, you're showing 5.5 hours remaining in there, which is quite a bit different from the three you claimed. Notice how Safari's average energy impact is a bit higher than the other stuff? My guess is extensions in safari, or having flash installed and running battery intensive apps, or maybe an issue with safari? That list also shows just energy of apps, it doesn't show how much system memory or cpu is being used.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:20
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Average energy impact is a really useful indicator. Based on my experiences, Safari will happily destroy battery life depending on the complexity of the sites you're on.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:47
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Just had a hard crash on an old G4 powermac running 10.5.8. Now on startup Ive been stuck on the apple screen with the hourglass for ~10min. Is it running fsck or something?
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Aug 9, 2014 01:47
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Shaocaholica posted:Just had a hard crash on an old G4 powermac running 10.5.8. Now on startup Ive been stuck on the apple screen with the hourglass for ~10min. Is it running fsck or something? It could be, or could have crashed at some point before or after that. If after a while it doesn't start, hard boot it, reset pram, and start in verbose mode (command-v at startup).
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Aug 9, 2014 02:40
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Facepalm Ranger posted:Thanks guys, going to get my lappy hard drive replaced so it'll atleast run again and when I go to Hong Kong later this month I'm gonna pick up a top end 13" retina, maybe with 1TB SSD and apple care (if it's really worth it), as it's around £500 cheaper than into home country. Applecare is definitely worth it on the newer machines. If your RAM goes bad, that's an entire logic board, for example.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:51
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Thauros posted:Oh, I've checked that, it's showing clear. I made sure to basically strip away everything but the essentials to rule out something draining it at an abnormal rate. That only shows you the apps you have - not everything on your system shows up there. Select View->All Processes to see everything.
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Aug 9, 2014 07:56
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Got my Mac Mini and it works absolutely beautifully. The seller, of course, also did a fresh install of the OS, so it's almost like a brand new computer and poo poo (especially since this thing is so fast compared to my old piece of poo poo laptop even though it's five years old). Yeah, the power brick is huge, but eh, you can't get everything. Thanks for the advice again, I'll look into upgrading the RAM and the SSD a bit later 
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Aug 9, 2014 11:44
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Nut Bunnies posted:Applecare is definitely worth it on the newer machines. If your RAM goes bad, that's an entire logic board, for example. That is terrifying to know...but good to know apple offer a premium service to fix any issues haha.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:32
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Does Apple remind you to renew your AppleCare?
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Aug 9, 2014 18:25
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fookolt posted:Does Apple remind you to renew your AppleCare? You can't renew it. You can buy it anytime in the first year, and it extends the care to three. After that you're on your own.
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Aug 9, 2014 18:48
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Eagerly awaiting my student loan monies so i can buy one of the price lowered MBPs, then anticipation is killing me.
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Aug 9, 2014 18:53
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Riven posted:You can't renew it. You can buy it anytime in the first year, and it extends the care to three. After that you're on your own. They certainly won't remind you about extending it when your complimentary year is about to run out.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:04
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They used to. I remember someone called me back in 2005 or something that my year was coming up.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:17
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I don't understand how this is supposedly the most solid trouble free hardware you can buy but everyone always recommends you pay for Apple care too? It sure ain't cheap. *edit lol the gross margins on Apple Care are 90-95%. That is not worth it at all. Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 19:36
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Pryor on Fire posted:I don't understand how this is supposedly the most solid trouble free hardware you can buy but everyone always recommends you pay for Apple care too? It sure ain't cheap. Yah, I have no idea why people keep recommending AppleCare, it really makes no sense at all to me.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:40
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ShadeofBlue posted:Yah, I have no idea why people keep recommending AppleCare, it really makes no sense at all to me. Apple takes care of you when you have AppleCare. Fan dies, hard drive dies, your trackpad isn't as clicky as it used to be, your power adapter starts fraying, etc. Realistically AppleCare paid off massively for me once, but then on this latest MBP all I got out of it was a new power adapter and a new fan, which would have been less than the cost of AppleCare. The repair they did for me on my old laptop would have cost >$1k out of pocket though so I'm still ahead. You're buying peace of mind, I guess. Apple products are expensive to begin with, and people "insure" expensive products when they can afford them... Personally, I'd buy AppleCare on Mac laptops because they're super-expensive and somewhat failure-prone especially when used heavily, but not for poo poo like iMac or iPhone or whatever. But that's just me.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:57
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Hardware is still hardware and all equipment can fail. Even though Apple general has more stringent requirements on their suppliers, poo poo happens. Due to how Apple designs their hardware with so much integration small failures can lead to big repair bills so the payoff with AppleCare, should you need to use it, is often greater than an extended warranty from other hardware manufacturers. Many people buy AppleCare to bolster resale value when they eventually trade up their laptop 2 years later.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:02
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I'm not saying that Apple's hardware never fails, but on average you will save a ton of money by never buying AppleCare.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:12
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ShadeofBlue posted:Yah, I have no idea why people keep recommending AppleCare, it really makes no sense at all to me. Hell, I got an email a few years ago reminding me about AppleCare when my iPod Nano was almost a year old. The computer or device has to be registered with Apple, but they do send out email reminders.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:15
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ShadeofBlue posted:but on average you will save a ton of money by never buying AppleCare. Based on what? Have you done statistical analysis on number of repairs needed by Apple computers and their costs compared to cost of AppleCare and adjusted for resale value during AppleCare duration? Or is this just "I feel this is true but have nothing to back it up with"?
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Aug 9, 2014 21:03
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On my 2007 iMac and 2009 MBP, the CD drive broke, and I had tons of battery trouble on earlier white MacBooks. Power button fell of my first iPhone 3G, and stopped working on my 5. I've had some kind of repair on almost every product from them after the original warranty time but within AppleCare. I haven't used PC stuff outside of work since 2004, and I understand it's become much more reliable. But other than those hardware hiccups, all of which we're handled in a maximum of a one hour appointment, I've never had issues like I used to have before I entered the Apple ecosystem.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:33
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GokieKS posted:Based on what? Have you done statistical analysis on number of repairs needed by Apple computers and their costs compared to cost of AppleCare and adjusted for resale value during AppleCare duration? Or is this just "I feel this is true but have nothing to back it up with"? The (somewhat broken) logic is that extended warranties are insurance, and companies set prices on insurance such that it is profitable, meaning on average people pay out more than they receive in return. Say (simplified example) 50% of a product line breaks, costing $600 in repairs; that's $300 per user on average so the price of an extended warranty might be set at $350. A bad deal for the user in the long term, since they're overpaying $100 for every 2 widgets. That must apply to third-party "warranties," but first-party warranties can take advantage of a different math. Because the party doing the insuring is also the party doing the repairs, they aren't paying retail price for those repairs - whereas the warranty-less user would be. To call back to the earlier example, the repair might cost the user $600, but maybe it only costs the manufacturer $400 in parts and labor; that means (if they want) they can sell first-party extended warranties profitably for $250, and the user would save $100 for every 2 widgets compared to retail-price repairs. So whether first-party extended warranties are worth it or not depends on how much the manufacturer marks up repairs, whether cheaper repairs/replacement parts are available elsewhere, and how much of a markup the manufacturer puts on those warranties. People who make blanket statements that extended warranties are always a ripoff are using bad logic. As far as Applecare is concerned, I don't know any exact numbers , but nearly everyone I know with a MacBook has taken advantage of it at least once, if not two or three times (drive failures, saggy hinges, unclicky trackpads, bad batteries, graphics glitches, wifi failures, etc.). Laptops take a lot of abuse and, as FCKGW alludes to, Apple's are so tightly integrated that repairs tend to be expensive. I always recommend Applecare on laptops.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:43
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Yeah those slot-loading drives loving sucked, my iBook G4's was working for maybe a year before it stopped reading anything and just spun, spun, spun then spat it out. Apple does have QC issues from time to time. I guess I'm being an apologist by saying that all other tech companies do too, you just don't hear about it as much, but they're just as vulnerable. They're pumping out shitloads of units, something's bound to go wrong for some acceptable percentage of the customers. *shrug* That's business. They could do better, but do you really want these things to be even more expensive? Heh.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:45
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I should also mention I've only ever paid student pricing on AC, which is close to 40% off I think usually, which changes the math drastically.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:51
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Yeah, my question was mostly rhetorical in nature, because I'm pretty sure he's just making that assertion with nothing to back it up. And you're right, the value proposition definitely changes when it's a first-party warranty extension. And yeah, Apple laptops are not actually an outlier in terms of reliability - every study I've ever seen on laptop reliability (whether from industry research groups, or 3rd parties that directly deal with repairs such as Square) has shown that MacBooks are better than some, occasionally worse than others, but not significantly different from the industry at large. So buy a MacBook because you like the OS / features, not because of a nebulous "it's more reliable".
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Aug 9, 2014 22:00
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GokieKS posted:Based on what? Have you done statistical analysis on number of repairs needed by Apple computers and their costs compared to cost of AppleCare and adjusted for resale value during AppleCare duration? Or is this just "I feel this is true but have nothing to back it up with"? How about you, do you have any statistics to say that AppleCare is worth it? I have as much to back it up as anyone else in this thread, which is just anecdotes. Choadmaster posted:As far as Applecare is concerned, I don't know any exact numbers , but nearly everyone I know with a MacBook has taken advantage of it at least once, if not two or three times (drive failures, saggy hinges, unclicky trackpads, bad batteries, graphics glitches, wifi failures, etc.). Laptops take a lot of abuse and, as FCKGW alludes to, Apple's are so tightly integrated that repairs tend to be expensive. I always recommend Applecare on laptops. Out of about 14 Apple computers that my family and friends have bought over the years that I can remember, I can think of 3 that had issues that needed expensive repairs. All 3 of them were repaired for free despite having no AppleCare because they were part of recall/extended repair programs (G3 iBook hinge, MacBook top case, MacBook Pro Nvidia graphics). The one time someone I know did buy AppleCare, they didn't end up doing anything with it.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:26
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ShadeofBlue posted:How about you, do you have any statistics to say that AppleCare is worth it? I have as much to back it up as anyone else in this thread, which is just anecdotes. Then don't buy it. Most people in the thread seem to have a positive overall applecare experience. Probably some of it has to do with the volume of usage and the willingness to get small things applecared rather than just dealing with them (clickiness of trackpad).
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Aug 9, 2014 22:28
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ShadeofBlue posted:How about you, do you have any statistics to say that AppleCare is worth it? I have as much to back it up as anyone else in this thread, which is just anecdotes. I don't. But I also didn't proclaim that buying it/not buying it will definitely save people money like you did either. GokieKS fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:30
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pseudanonymous posted:Then don't buy it. Most people in the thread seem to have a positive overall applecare experience. Probably some of it has to do with the volume of usage and the willingness to get small things applecared rather than just dealing with them (clickiness of trackpad). Well, it's great if they have a good experience, but I wouldn't call it worth spending hundreds of dollars to change the clickiness of my trackpad.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:31
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ShadeofBlue posted:Well, it's great if they have a good experience, but I wouldn't call it worth spending hundreds of dollars to change the clickiness of my trackpad. That's called an anecdote, and they generally aren't considered "data." To use another anecdote, AppleCare covered the cost of replacing the logic board in my Mac Pro twice, at just over $900 each time. That's why I'll keep buying it, data or no. Everyone else is free to make their own determination.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:40
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I can't say one way or the other whether AppleCare is worth the cost or not. What I can say is that I've had plenty of people come through the shop that wished they had purchased it when they could have. I see people always stating that they get AppleCare for their notebooks, but not desktops. I would actually argue for the opposite. With the notebooks, you have the option for a flat rate mail in repair, which is typically not much more expensive than AppleCare would be. With an iMac, you don't have that option, and when the LCD or the logic board goes out, you're looking at a pretty drat expensive repair.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:54
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empty baggie posted:I can't say one way or the other whether AppleCare is worth the cost or not. What I can say is that I've had plenty of people come through the shop that wished they had purchased it when they could have. What is this 'flat rate repair'? I spilled juice on my old Macbook Pro. The mobo was OK but the keyboard and trackpad were hosed. I paid $400 to replace those, and then got it in writing that my warranty has been fully restored as they repaired the liquid damage. Two months later, the mobo dies, they blame liquid damage, I said "uh uh! You told me I'd be warrantied!" and so they did it. What "flat rate" out of warranty can cover an entire mobo swap on an MBP? Have things changed? I'm not being antagonistic I'm just wondering.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:58
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Pivo posted:What is this 'flat rate repair'? Apple offers a flat-rate mail-in repair option. It's like $280 for a 13" for example, but you wouldn't actually qualify for that pricing because you spilled something into it, which would bump it up to a higher tier. I believe MLB damage bumps it up to Tier 4, which would be $775 i think. The cheaper mail-in option only works if the issue is deemed manufacturer defect, which is the same thing AppleCare would cover anyway. Accidental damage bumps the price up. I'm sure I'm not explaining this perfectly but that's the gist of it. E: and yeah, if you paid for the repair and they told you AppleCare was reinstated, the MLB failure should be on them. empty baggie fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 23:01
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empty baggie posted:I can't say one way or the other whether AppleCare is worth the cost or not. What I can say is that I've had plenty of people come through the shop that wished they had purchased it when they could have. People who are happy without AppleCare probably won't end up in your shop, though. They're at home enjoying their functioning computers. The last time this topic came up I pointed out the bathtub curve. Warranties cover manufacturing defects, and these occur at the highest rate during the first few months of operation. After that the failure rate drops to nearly nothing for a few years, then as components age the curve goes back up again. So, your 1 year warranty already covers the highest-risk part of the curve: high failure rate, and the hardware hasn't depreciated yet so it would be very expensive to replace or fix. When you buy AppleCare you are insuring medium-to-low risk parts of the failure curve. This plus the fact that Apple actively tries to sell you AppleCare (email reminders have already been mentioned, and Retail Store employees are pushy about it when they are pushy about literally almost nothing else) strongly suggests to me that Apple makes a tidy profit off the program. If you can afford to self-insure over years 2 & 3 you will come out ahead. On average, not every time, but that's what being able to self-insure implies. Mileage varies, insert anecdata here, etc etc. Also I think the only way to truly solve this problem (in the USA) is a federally mandated 3- or preferably 5-year warranty period on all electronics, but I'm not exactly holding out hope for that in our neo-gilded-age political climate.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:19
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BobHoward posted:People who are happy without AppleCare probably won't end up in your shop, though. They're at home enjoying their functioning computers. Well, of course. That's why I say I can't recommend one way or the other (though I would be more inclined to purchase it myself for iMacs and Mac Pros, just because the cost of repair in many cases is not economically feasible). We do have a pretty high attach rate though. Most people who are purchasing a computer in our store are also buying a warranty, whether it be AppleCare or our own more expensive warranty which covers 2 incidents of accidental damage (with a deductible). That really doesn't mean anything though, just stating for the record. We only make about $20 per computer on average; the real money is in warranties.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:27
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I have major liquid damage on my MBP, and 2 years of AppleCare to go. I always assumed there's no way they'll cover it. Correct?
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Aug 10, 2014 01:01
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Cingulate posted:I have major liquid damage on my MBP, and 2 years of AppleCare to go. I always assumed there's no way they'll cover it. Correct? Unless you live too far away from an apple store you can always bring it and get their opinion for free. Personally I'd just bring it in under the pretence of wanting a repair quote, but secretly hoping the genius will take pity on me for being such a nice guy who's not just bumbling in and demanding a warranty repair because I was stupid enough to take a bath with my £1000 laptop 
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Aug 10, 2014 01:14
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empty baggie posted:I can't say one way or the other whether AppleCare is worth the cost or not. What I can say is that I've had plenty of people come through the shop that wished they had purchased it when they could have. A flat rate repair is about the same cost of AppleCare if you don't factor in student pricing ($280 flat rate vs $183 for student AppleCare). This also doesn't factor in the possibility of having more than one flat rate repair, or the fact that only USA and Japan get the flat-rate option. Cingulate posted:I have major liquid damage on my MBP, and 2 years of AppleCare to go. I always assumed there's no way they'll cover it. Correct? They will not. If it's major liquid damage (can you be a little more specific?), even if you get someone sympathetic at an Apple Store the repair facility will call you and give you the liquid pricing once they see it in there.
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Aug 10, 2014 01:44
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