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Al-Saqr posted:EDIT edit: edited just as I posted, never mind
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Aug 10, 2014 15:16
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I am extremely sorry for posting an incorrect link earlier in the thread. I have no loving idea how I ended up linking to a new ISIS gorefest video, and I'm sincerely sorry for people who ended up seeing it. The following is a propaganda piece by ISIS. It is not filled with horrible things. It involves an interview with a white canadian who was a janitor and then decided to convert to Islam. He describes his motivations for joining ISIS. Then it is followed by battle footage, where his position is highlighted. Then it shows him getting blown up by artillery. Then it shows his corpse, and flashes words of praise. https://ia801509.us.archive.org/22/items/GhurabaAbuMuslimAlCanadi/GhurabaAbuMuslimAlCanadi.mp4 I don't know how I ended up linking that other video, because I've never seen it before and holy poo poo is it hardcore.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:31
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Martin Random posted:I am extremely sorry for posting an incorrect link earlier in the thread. I have no loving idea how I ended up linking to a new ISIS gorefest video, and I'm sincerely sorry for people who ended up seeing it. Dude you shouldn't apologize for posting something relevant to the thread, stuff like that is important to see and understand the real nature of the people you're dealing with. It was kind of worth seeing so that opinions can harden against ISIS. Wow, Watching the new canadian video is just depressing, especially the amazing HD montage in the beginning showing how awesome life in canada is compared the situation ISIS lured him into. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 15:34
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Al-Saqr posted:It was kind of worth seeing so that opinions can harden against ISIS. People were OK wit IS?
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Aug 10, 2014 15:38
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SeANMcBAY posted:This video is insane. I hope I'm not on some watch list now for looking at it. Christ. Being a British citizen in the states, I make it a point to add a courteous "hello NSA" comment as a matter of course at the end of every email I send to my dad, especially ones containing links to hour-long terror propaganda.  Al-Saqr posted:ISIS:-"HA TELL THE RAFIDI ARMY WHAT THEIR FATE IS" A lot of people who don't force themselves to look at this chaos cannot understand why people would willingly walk into their own death trenches. "Why don't they fight?!" they say. "If I were there I'd be somethingsomethingsomething," usually comes out of the mouths of officers. But when the options are lie down, close your eyes, pass on -or- kneel down, and slowly have your head cut off, the choice seems clear. i am harry fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 15:38
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Just The Facts posted:People were OK wit IS? a few idiots in this thread and on the internet were kind of waving away how bad ISIS is, this video should put those illusions to rest.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:47
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Al-Saqr posted:a few idiots in this thread and on the internet were kind of waving away how bad ISIS is, this video should put those illusions to rest. Agreed. IS is as close to unambiguously evil as you can get. I don't think the world has seen people this cruel, horrific, and villainous on the front page news since the Nazis.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:09
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I'd rather not watch that video, but is the Canadian guy from Calgary? It seems like most of the people who get radicalised and head to Syria or Iraq all come from there. I recall an article a while back talking to a really frustrated Calgary Imam about how he kept trying to get the government to do something about the individuals pushing his flock to go fight overseas (I think he blamed certain university professors) , but there was so much distrust all around no one was listening 
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Aug 10, 2014 16:12
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Agreed. Imagine if the internet existed then, or didn't exist now, how different our opinions might be when the information at our disposal comes primarily through the censored veins of news organs.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:18
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What do these educated first world recruits think they're fighting for? A modern and just Islamic utopia? Or do they just want to watch the world burn? The IS press dude in the VICE video said that conflict brings Muslims closer to god and something about always being in a state of conflict is a good thing. That's some Orwellian poo poo there.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:22
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Shaocaholica posted:What do these educated first world recruits think they're fighting for? A modern and just Islamic utopia? Or do they just want to watch the world burn? The IS press dude in the VICE video said that conflict brings Muslims closer to god and something about always being in a state of conflict is a good thing. That's some Orwellian poo poo there. Permanent revolution is not exactly a new concept, regardless of political leanings.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:25
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Agreed. I think there have been many periods of brutality like this in the news since then. Algeria? Rwanda? Latin America?
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Aug 10, 2014 16:26
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Agreed. The Rwandan genocide, the Khmer Rouges, Dick Cheney...
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Aug 10, 2014 16:34
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Agreed. Imperial Japan, really. Nazis were terrifying because they industrialized and impersonalized murder. This poo poo is right up there with some of the worst stuff I've heard of Japan doing in the Philippines. E: Yes, good point, Khmer, Rwanda.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:37
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Shaocaholica posted:The IS press dude in the VICE video said that conflict brings Muslims closer to god and something about always being in a state of conflict is a good thing. That's some Orwellian poo poo there. The mind can reach a flash point from suffering, like a jogger's high. Spend your first 12 years of life in utter poverty, watch your father's body be split in half by an explosion, progressively lose all your friends to war, and deep cracks form in your mind. If you fill those holes with something like Allah, then whenever the tingling pain rises up in your heart and numbs your soul, you tell yourself it's the touch of God, and you begin to find comfort in it. Look at the Belgian preacher in the second VICE vid. He cries at the end. You'll see it. i am harry fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 16:43
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In Iraqi political news, the 15 day deadline for nominating a prime minister triggered by the election of Masum as president is due to expire tonight. The Shia block still can't agree on a candidate, some observers think Ibrahim al-Jaafari may be nominated as a compromise candidate. Remember that guy? The guy the US forced out of the PM spot for being too cosy with the Sadrists? This is going to turn out just swell...
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Aug 10, 2014 16:44
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Svartvit posted:I think there have been many periods of brutality like this in the news since then. Algeria? Rwanda? Latin America? ...Khmer Rouge, North Korea the list isn't that short. Unfortunately troubled states seem to be able the perfect environment to foster these sort of groups as when things are going badly people tend to be more accepting of extreme ideologies, and damaged individuals naturally seem to rise to potions of power.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:47
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i am harry posted:Imagine if the internet existed then, or didn't exist now, how different our opinions might be when the information at our disposal comes primarily through the censored veins of news organs. Hell even then it is a question of context, Madeline Albright openly stated on camera she was just fine with 500 000 Iraqi kids dying over the course of the sanctions on Iraq. Now that is in no way a defence of ISIS but it does seem, in general terms, that who commits the atrocity defines how bad it is and how angry people get. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
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Aug 10, 2014 16:49
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quote:16.40 In America, Republican senators appear to be queuing up to make political hay out of the Iraq crisis. Yeah, I don't see how 'aggressively arming' a group to combat another group could possibly turn out bad for us. 
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Aug 10, 2014 16:51
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Dr.Caligari posted:Yeah, I don't see how 'aggressively arming' a group to combat another group could possibly turn out bad for us. When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. However, to put my cards on the table, that doesn't mean you should throw the hammer out of the toolbox.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:54
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I fully support bombing ISIS because of what they do to innocent people, but John McCain's perpetual war-boner is the saddest loving thing
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Aug 10, 2014 17:02
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ProfessorCurly posted:When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. What about when you're a lizard wearing a flesh suit of an old white man who has intentionally and remorselessly ruined everything it touches for its own ultimately marginal if not downright worthless gain?
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Aug 10, 2014 17:03
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Hell even then it is a question of context, Madeline Albright openly stated on camera she was just fine with 500 000 Iraqi kids dying over the course of the sanctions on Iraq. Now that is in no way a defence of ISIS but it does seem, in general terms, that who commits the atrocity defines how bad it is and how angry people get. There is a pretty big difference between withholding assistance/limiting economic access - indirectly resulting in otherwise avoidable deaths through a lack of outside help - and flat out intentionally murdering the gently caress out of droves of people.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:50
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Elsewhere, votes have been counted in the Turkish presidential elections, and Erdogan is the winner, with 53% of the vote after 95% of the ballots have been counted.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:53
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That's actually less of a margin than I expected, though obviously he still won.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:54
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Warbadger posted:There is a pretty big difference between withholding assistance/limiting economic access - indirectly resulting in otherwise avoidable deaths through a lack of outside help - and flat out intentionally murdering the gently caress out of droves of people. If I remember right (and I quite possibly don't) I heard a lot about specifically restricting desperately needed medicine, essential food products, etc. I was a kid back in the late 90's when the whole "End the Iraqi sanctions" line was publicly audible, but still not exactly popular, and I distinctly remember seeing a lot of pictures that highlighted the extreme poverty and sickness that supposedly the sanctions put millions of kids in. In hindsight, I really don't know though, as certain events that Iraq would go through in the next few years overshadowed that period. edit: Brown Moses posted:Elsewhere, votes have been counted in the Turkish presidential elections, and Erdogan is the winner, with 53% of the vote after 95% of the ballots have been counted. Is there any chance at all that Erdogan, in his push for increasing presidential power, might overreach? Or possibly the details get bogged down in parliament and MP's aren't able to agree? I'm not intimately familiar with Turkish politics, so I'm wondering how being so open about running for an executive office with the express desire to gain more power for the position really works. In America he'd be laughed out of the race, of course, but does the AKP have enough power in parliament to do this? Does this require a herculean effort in Turkey, similar to a Constitutional amendment in the US would be? What are his chances? Bastaman Vibration fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 17:55
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Warcabbit posted:Imperial Japan, really. Nazis were terrifying because they industrialized and impersonalized murder. This poo poo is right up there with some of the worst stuff I've heard of Japan doing in the Philippines. I don't know, the fact that this is being carried out by a pseudo-state rather than an out-an-out state authority somehow makes it even more terrifying. Imagine being somewhere in reach of IS control. Not only are you probably dealing with random Shi'ia insurgents (or depending on your location, spill-over insurgents from Syria) shooting you dead, now you've got the threat of - any day now - you might be strung up and crucified or your head carved off like a pumpkin and served on a platter or your entire brain being ejected from your head  or being pressed into concubinage by the hundreds etc. by the radicalest of radical Islamist Sunni for breathing in the general direction of heresy. It's not mechanized state-run brutality like with Imperial Japan or the Khmer Rouge or even with Rwanda, this is just utterly terrifying to even imagine having to deal with.Like, really. There's a scale of fear between routine state-run terror and out-of-the-blue genocidal slaughter. Both are unfathomably horrible, but... God drat. Or, for a closer example, pre-occupation Iraq under Saddam. That regime was utterly terrifying and mind-breaking to live under, but that too was mechanized and ran with a sense of order. Now people are being slaughtered in grisly animal abandon. It's gone from nightmarish to mind-bendingly hellish with Satan laughing somewhere in the distance. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 17:58
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dinoputz posted:If I remember right (and I quite possibly don't) I heard a lot about specifically restricting desperately needed medicine, essential food products, etc. I was a kid back in the late 90's when the whole "End the Iraqi sanctions" line was publicly audible, but still not exactly popular, and I distinctly remember seeing a lot of pictures that highlighted the extreme poverty and sickness that supposedly the sanctions put millions of kids in. In hindsight, I really don't know though, as certain events that Iraq would go through in the next few years overshadowed that period. Not giving a hostile regime access to outside medicine, food, and money does not really equate well to being a band of armed thugs shooting, bombing, and decapitating people. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 18:00
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Brown Moses posted:Elsewhere, votes have been counted in the Turkish presidential elections, and Erdogan is the winner, with 53% of the vote after 95% of the ballots have been counted. Hmm, I was really thinking people were getting tired of him becoming a little more fundamentalist. No laughing in public for women and such.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:01
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It seems like a lot of ISIS videos just re-use the same clips: -Gunning down cars as they pass, same yellow Chrysler 300 -night raid in US equipment with silencers -making the old guy dig his own grave -beheading the police chief -etc. You'd think all these advances would be producing new footage. Of course, in a few weeks we will probably see it.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:02
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Sooo don't air drops sorta give away where everyone is hiding?
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Aug 10, 2014 18:02
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Just The Facts posted:Hmm, I was really thinking people were getting tired of him becoming a little more fundamentalist. No laughing in public for women and such. Why would you think that? The opposition is completely disjointed whereas he still has a solid base.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:05
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:Sooo don't air drops sorta give away where everyone is hiding? For the most part ISIS is already aware of where they are hiding, but they lack weaponry to attack the positions.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:09
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i am harry posted:Imagine if the internet existed then, or didn't exist now, how different our opinions might be when the information at our disposal comes primarily through the censored veins of news organs. That was kind of my point, not that the other genocides/massacres didn't exist or weren't talked about in the news. That's why I am, at least, overjoyed by the ray of hope Brown Moses's Bellingcat project seems to pose. If the work and efforts of people like Brown Moses can be magnified and multiplied exponentially, then we could see something akin to Muckraker Era 2.0 in terms of exposing lies and corruption on a broad scale.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:09
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Just The Facts posted:People were OK wit IS? extreme anti-americanism can sometimes mean people are somewhat "pro-"isis because it fits their anti-american agenda... kinda
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Aug 10, 2014 18:22
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Warbadger posted:Not giving a hostile regime access to outside medicine, food, and money does not really equate well to being a band of armed thugs shooting, bombing, and decapitating people. I posted that video in response to a discussion about why those who support and join ISIS may see their actions as something other than atrocities. 500 000 dead kids is an inarguably awful thing and yet the US Secretary of State, and given it didn't lead to her losing her job the US public too, found they could view it as something other than an atrocity too. As you apparently agree, one person's atrocity is another's necessary evil.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:24
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TheRamblingSoul posted:That was kind of my point, not that the other genocides/massacres didn't exist or weren't talked about in the news. A good example of what we're doing is the project we'll be doing with the OCCRP and Hacks/Hackers. Basically it involves training loads of journalists and investigators to do investigations into cross border crime and corruption using open source tools, and we already know it works, and there's loads of information out there to investigate, it's just there's not enough people trained to do it. We'll also be documenting the training on Bellingcat, providing guides, case studies, etc, and we've already been invited to take the project to New York, so we'll set up the London group soon, then the New York group next. Once we get things going the hope is we can keep expanding to cities across the world, training more and more people, who themselves will go on to train other people. Something else I'm putting together is an "Investigators Toolkit", bringing together all these tools that are out there, but no-one is aware of, and showing how they can be used to do different types of investigations. I'm also already talking about doing more lectures in universities and even schools now, so there's plenty to do.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:28
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A bit late to the party, but:A Buttery Pastry posted:Actually, they're the best Protestants. Only evidence you need is the fact that these countries are majority Lutheran; Denmark, Namibia, Norway, and Sweden, all of which are stable multi-party parliamentary democracies. this has nothing to do with our horribly outdated and conservative state churches, and everything to do with our history of labour struggles.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:28
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I posted that video in response to a discussion about why those who support and join ISIS may see their actions as something other than atrocities. 500 000 dead kids is an inarguably awful thing and yet the US Secretary of State, and given it didn't lead to her losing her job the US public too, found they could view it as something other than an atrocity too. Not really. It's much easier to see something as not-an-atrocity when it's a question of people dying in mundane ways that may or may not have been prevented had there not been a blockade on foreign goods. There is a huge disconnect in that example between the actions and the deaths, and a great deal more room for denial of both impact and responsibility. Not so much when it's a case of mass executions and random murder. There is no question whether ISIS is responsible for the deaths of the people it shoots/stabs/etc. Beyond that, murders/executions are far more visible deaths than kids dying more often than usual due to illness. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 18:35
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dinoputz posted:Is there any chance at all that Erdogan, in his push for increasing presidential power, might overreach? Or possibly the details get bogged down in parliament and MP's aren't able to agree? I'm not intimately familiar with Turkish politics, so I'm wondering how being so open about running for an executive office with the express desire to gain more power for the position really works. In America he'd be laughed out of the race, of course, but does the AKP have enough power in parliament to do this? Does this require a herculean effort in Turkey, similar to a Constitutional amendment in the US would be? What are his chances? I'm not sure what Erdogan could do to overreach at this stage - he got 53% of the godamaned vote, that's an increase on what the AKP got back in 2011 (49.8%). I think an important thing to remember is that pretty much all parties agree that the current constitution, imposed after the 1980 coup, needs to be reformed - there has been a cross party commission to try to draft a new constitution for years but it collapsed at the end of last year as the major parties couldn't agree on what specific reforms were needed. At the moment the AKP do not have the 3/5ths majority needed to push a draft constitution to a referendum, Erdogan is gambling on a combination of a continued upswing in AKP votes in next years election and support from Kurdish parties to get him the majority he needs to put his draft to the popular vote. He can argue he tried the cross-party approach but this failed due to the intransigence of the Kemalist establishment, his base will eat that up. Until then he is squaring up for a battle with the Judiciary anyway, the courts recently struck down his attempts to increase government control over the legal system so he's itching for a fight. He's probably expecting legal challenges to start coming his way pretty soon, he thrives on combative politics so he's probably relishing the chance to get a good rant going. Also, I can't remember if this was brought up in the thread before or not, but this is probably my favourite Erdogan quote from the campaign: RTE posted:Let all Turks in Turkey say they are Turks and all Kurds say they are Kurds. What is wrong with that? You wouldn't believe the things they have said about me. They have said I am Georgian. Excuse me, but they have said even uglier things. They have called me Armenian. What a fucker.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:36
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