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Eukodol posted:Seeing as how I'm in a thread with people who think Prometheus was a triumph of the human imagination and storytelling.... yeah, you're probably right. Oh God don't get me started on that train wreck.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:38
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No, Prometheus was a bunch of slasher trope rubbish mashed together with high production values and pretty camera direction. While this show does have some really bothersome illogical poo poo going on, it seems definitely much better plotted out so far. I was not a fan of Lost at all and I like this show, at least up to this point. The main character being such a doormat for plot events is really my big problem with it.Sten Freak posted:We got no conflict on screen for the GR stealing family photos so my hopes that them trolling the town's families with realdolls of their departed loved ones is probably going to be a letdown as well. This was another thing that bothered me a great deal, the only direct reaction we got (aside from the rock throwing incident) was Nora saying "Oh yeah they took some pictures, yeah whatever" Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 21:38
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Eukodol posted:Seeing as how I'm in a thread with people who think Prometheus was a triumph of the human imagination and storytelling.... yeah, you're probably right. Sorry that you are forced to post in this thread and watch this show man 
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Aug 22, 2014 22:26
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Tomahawk posted:Sorry that you are forced to post in this thread and watch this show man To be sure, I pretty much only watch this show because it's the lead-in to John Oliver. I will readily admit I hate-watch this show because it's just fun to slag on something that's this bad. But honestly I'm waiting for the bigger payoff: That once again it is revealed that Lindelof can't tie off a story in a satisfactory way and you are all left wondering what the hell you just watched. Lucy Van Pelt is only funny because Charlie Brown really thinks he can kick that football this time. If I'm wrong, I'll be wrong and entertained. If I'm right I'll have my fun along the way. There's really no downside.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:07
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Do you guys think the ATF is involved with the GR directly? It would explain their funding, and why everything was so hush hush when Kevin was speaking with the agent.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:17
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Verisimilidude posted:Do you guys think the ATF is involved with the GR directly? It would explain their funding, and why everything was so hush hush when Kevin was speaking with the agent. A bigger gov't agency coming to look for Patti is the only way to create any tension out of that plot line since Garvey is in way too good of a position to cover it all up if it stays local.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:22
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Verisimilidude posted:Do you guys think the ATF is involved with the GR directly? It would explain their funding, and why everything was so hush hush when Kevin was speaking with the agent. It seemed like the ATF guy Kevin talked to was pretty much in a hurry to erase all evidence of a person having been murdered, precisely because she was GR. Now, what does that mean? IDFK. Could mean either what you said or that they want the GR gone and didn't care that a GR member had been basically martyred.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:22
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Huge conspiracies with infinite resources and inscrutable goals is kind of a Lindelof trope, I'm not even giving a poo poo at this point. I won't be surprised if the ATF(EC) ends up just hanging around out there doing inexplicable poo poo for the entire series. The phone conversation Kevin has with the agent can't be taken at face value since Kevin's nuts so IT COULD ALL BE A DREAM DOODOODOODOO Leaving Kevin's sanity so much in doubt is a very convenient glory hole that the writers can stuff all sorts of bullshit into. I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's something meaningful going on there but I strongly doubt it.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:00
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One of the coolest parts of this show is the idea that certain sections of the US government have become just as crazy as the GR. The organized insanity is very disturbing to me.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:07
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:No but that's a great idea for a porno marketed to NRA sorts. I once saw a porn clip were a guy shoots a bear out of a tree (for real not fake) and then fucks the girl with him on its corpse.
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Aug 23, 2014 02:32
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I gathered that post-departure a whole lot of cults popped up. Some are harmless like the barefoot bullseye hippies. Some are like Wayne, compound savior types. And more than a few are really dangerous, well funded national groups like the GR. And in that kind of situation the government had declared a secret war/martial law kind I deal. Whatever it takes to make things seem normal. Which is where you get wholesale slaughters of compounds on flimsy legal justification.
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Aug 23, 2014 03:46
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D-Pad posted:I once saw a porn clip were a guy shoots a bear out of a tree (for real not fake) and then fucks the girl with him on its corpse. Yeah rub that bear.
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Aug 23, 2014 03:52
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oneof27 posted:I gathered that post-departure a whole lot of cults popped up. Some are harmless like the barefoot bullseye hippies. Interesting that you immediately write them off as harmless, because the show told you to. There's no way they won't go back to that group.
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Aug 23, 2014 04:52
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oneof27 posted:I gathered that post-departure a whole lot of cults popped up. Some are harmless like the barefoot bullseye hippies. Some are like Wayne, compound savior types. And more than a few are really dangerous, well funded national groups like the GR. And in that kind of situation the government had declared a secret war/martial law kind I deal. Whatever it takes to make things seem normal. Which is where you get wholesale slaughters of compounds on flimsy legal justification. Maybe Dean's really the Jack Bauer of this world and he shoots dogs to stay sharp while he's on his undercover mission against the Maplewood GR.
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Aug 23, 2014 05:55
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savinhill posted:Maybe Dean's really the Jack Bauer of this world and he shoots dogs to stay sharp while he's on his undercover mission against the Maplewood GR. Yeah the Maplewood chapter is definitely the worst chapter in New York's tiniest town.
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Aug 23, 2014 06:02
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Flesh Forge posted:Interesting that you immediately write them off as harmless, because the show told you to. There's no way they won't go back to that group. I just made an inference, based on the barefoot/hippy connotation and their general attitude. In the absence of other evidence I filed them under harmless. Edit: I would say the they were shown being harmless, as opposed to being told they were harmless.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:40
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Professor Shark posted:One of the coolest parts of this show is the idea that certain sections of the US government have become just as crazy as the GR. The organized insanity is very disturbing to me. I think it is more like it is in real life; the government has a huge hands off approach when it comes to non violent cults (maybe not in the Leftovers universe, as they have renamed the ATF the ATFEC). Sure, they might poke that hornets nest with a stick from time to time, but they are very wary of bad press, negativity, and, possibly, martyring cultists, thereby exploding their cult messages to the forefront. I think the government wants these cults to continue going (close monitoring of course) to !) see what their end game is and 2) maybe they actually know something. They only went after Wayne because of the armory he had for whatever reason.
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Aug 23, 2014 17:41
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Eukodol posted:But honestly I'm waiting for the bigger payoff: That once again it is revealed that Lindelof can't tie off a story in a satisfactory way and you are all left wondering what the hell you just watched. Lucy Van Pelt is only funny because Charlie Brown really thinks he can kick that football this time. Well don't worry you'll be proven "right" because 1) it's been said (repeatedly) from the beginning that solving the central mystery wasn't going to be the purpose of the show, and 2) Lindelof's entire oeuvre has been about how people deal with the unanswerable questions in life (although he is finally being upfront about not answering questions). Eukodol posted:Is it me or are the most vociferous supporters of this show also the ones who seem to be completely blindsided by basic human interactions? Eukodol posted:Seeing as how I'm in a thread with people who think Prometheus was a triumph of the human imagination and storytelling.... yeah, you're probably right. Jeez bud, how does it feel to be so much smarter than everyone?
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Aug 23, 2014 19:45
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Guy A. Person posted:Well don't worry you'll be proven "right" because 1) it's been said (repeatedly) from the beginning that solving the central mystery wasn't going to be the purpose of the show, Where!? has it been said in the show? Has anything *in the show itself* stated that the central mysteries will not be solved? Do I really need to chase down every internet rabbit hole to truly grasp the awesomeness of the Lindelverse? Is there some magic button on my remote which can stream the commentary track rather than the dialogue? I'm sure Lindelhof can talk a mean game and has an incredible intention to excuse every flub made... but at the end of the day the show has to stand by itself as a wholly made object independent of any ancillary work or words. When looked at that way I see 8 episodes so far and only 2 of which were worth a drat. Guy A. Person posted:Jeez bud, how does it feel to be so much smarter than everyone? I'm not smarter than you, I just have different (read: better  ) tastes in television.
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Aug 23, 2014 22:22
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Eukodol posted:Where!? has it been said in the show? Has anything *in the show itself* stated that the central mysteries will not be solved? Do I really need to chase down every internet rabbit hole to truly grasp the awesomeness of the Lindelverse? Is there some magic button on my remote which can stream the commentary track rather than the dialogue? I'm sure Lindelhof can talk a mean game and has an incredible intention to excuse every flub made... but at the end of the day the show has to stand by itself as a wholly made object independent of any ancillary work or words. When looked at that way I see 8 episodes so far and only 2 of which were worth a drat.
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Aug 23, 2014 22:25
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Eukodol posted:Do I really need to chase down every internet rabbit hole to truly grasp the awesomeness of the Lindelverse? You know he's adapting a book, right? They're verging a little and they're going to have to start their own story to continue seasons, but the central story isn't his.
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Aug 23, 2014 23:04
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Eukodol posted:Where!? has it been said in the show? Has anything *in the show itself* stated that the central mysteries will not be solved? I think you can just look at Lindelof's track record and waive any expectation that the metaplot will be particularly good or internally consistent. It's an interesting character-driven show and it doesn't really have to be anything more than that, although I'll get annoyed and drop it if they pull the IT WAS ALL A DREAM schtick very often. The Dave posted:You know he's adapting a book, right? They're verging a little and they're going to have to start their own story to continue seasons, but the central story isn't his. To be fair, the TV adaptation doesn't seem to be following the book (SPOILERS AT THAT LINK) very closely, and the ways in which it deviates the most (Kevin being nuts and IT WAS ALL A DREAM) are things that are what a lot of people are going to consider Lindelof's embellishments, whether that's fair/true or not. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 00:08
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The Dave posted:You know he's adapting a book, right? They're verging a little and they're going to have to start their own story to continue seasons, but the central story isn't his. Fair enough. At this point I don't think there could ever be a satisfactory answer to why the 2% took off or that it is even relevant to the story at all (my opinion: it's not). To me the big mystery is not the disappearance but rather why everyone's reaction to the event is to be a complete rear end in a top hat to everyone else. - Garvey, when he's lucid, seems to be the town's punching bag. When he's not drunk and threatening dry cleaners under color of authority he's taking crap from all quarters (Wife wants divorce, daughter doesn't respect him, subordinates at work go over his head, mayor gives him poo poo etc.) In a lot of ways he probably should have started showing signs of cracking up a lot earlier. - Wayne is the puppetmaster of his own personal underground network of pregnant women. Sure he can hug the pain out of folks but from his little talk with Nora you can tell that he has big big plans and basically sees everyone around him as a means to an end. - Matt... well Matt's chasing his white whale. - GR troll society at large in order to goad people into killing them. - The Twins are kind, but so far they have been portrayed as not having the requisite brain cells to be cruel or vicious. The problem I see with this is that there is no explanation for any of this behavior. Do I expect everyone to be nicey nicey? No. But I do think the addition of character to play the straight man amid the sea of lunatics might be helpful to the narrative. I don't really find any of these characters at all relatable (OK for a minute there I could relate to hard-luck Matt, but then he shoved his head up his rear end and went crusading). So in the end it's a collection of characters that defy you to identify with them all acting horrible to each other for reasons unknown. How is this different from Real Housewives? One question I would like to pose is this: Instead of people disappearing into thin air, what if a Godzilla, or aliens or a suffocating shower of chicken fillets came and removed 2% of the population. Would you still find the show appealing?
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Aug 24, 2014 00:17
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It's OK if they never draw the curtain back. Look what happened when X-Files drew the curtain back: loving BEES.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:20
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Eukodol posted:One question I would like to pose is this: Instead of people disappearing into thin air, what if a Godzilla, or aliens or a suffocating shower of chicken fillets came and removed 2% of the population. Would you still find the show appealing? I was pretty much taking your posts at face value since I've hate-watched shows and talked poo poo about them in TVIV or with friends myself, but jesus christ, dude, just shut the gently caress up. Edit: Also, I completely disagree. If 2% of the world's population just insta-disappeared in a flash, it would ROYALLY gently caress people up. You'd have people who would try to move on (especially if they weren't as directly affected), you'd have people who'd just snap, you'd have people who wouldn't think much of life anymore and be aimless, you'd have people who are angry, you'd have cults popping up who claim to (or actually do??) know the meaning/reason/whatever the hell. This town is a snapshot of how people are coping with and reacting to a very strange event. That's the point of the show. If you just want answers, then stop watching or shut up about it and get the gently caress over whatever PTSD Lost gave you. If you're watching a character drama with an interesting premise, maybe you'll enjoy it. Otherwise, DVR John Oliver and you won't have to watch this horrible program anymore. Christ. Shadow fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 00:29
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Flesh Forge posted:It's OK if they never draw the curtain back. Look what happened when X-Files drew the curtain back: loving BEES. I don't remember any beads? \ /
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Aug 24, 2014 00:52
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Professor Shark posted:I don't remember any beads? \ Umm, it's obviously beds, dude. Have you ever seen a bead with a curtain? Jeez, some people are bad at watching tv.
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Aug 24, 2014 01:00
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grate deceiver posted:Umm, it's obviously beds, dude. Have you ever seen a bead with a curtain? Is that what was going on???
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Aug 24, 2014 01:03
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Professor Shark posted:Is that what was going on??? Just stop asking questions and enjoy the bed, you're not getting any answers christ
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Aug 24, 2014 01:52
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LOST really hosed me up
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Aug 24, 2014 02:11
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homo punching bag posted:Just stop asking questions and enjoy the bed, you're not getting any answers Think he was kidding bruh
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Aug 24, 2014 04:52
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Eukodol posted:One question I would like to pose is this: Instead of people disappearing into thin air, what if a Godzilla, or aliens or a suffocating shower of chicken fillets came and removed 2% of the population. Would you still find the show appealing? Shadow already gave a good response, but it's the simple fact that there truly is no logical explanation for the disappearance of the 2% that is what drove a good amount of people batshit. If a meteor came and knocked out a couple hundred million people, most people would just mourn for a while and talk about how much that sucked and then move on. But wouldn't 2% of the world vanishing into the air kind of turn the world view of the average person, particularly those who are religious, completely upside down? In short, grate deceiver posted:
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Aug 24, 2014 06:50
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life is killing me posted:Think he was kidding bruh I don't exactly get the joke but they both are. Menamino posted:Shadow already gave a good response, but it's the simple fact that there truly is no logical explanation for the disappearance of the 2% that is what drove a good amount of people batshit. If a meteor came and knocked out a couple hundred million people, most people would just mourn for a while and talk about how much that sucked and then move on. But wouldn't 2% of the world vanishing into the air kind of turn the world view of the average person, particularly those who are religious, completely upside down? Yeah the lack of closure is a pretty central (and obvious) theme.
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Aug 24, 2014 07:24
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I was just trying to make an Arrested Development joke but it went all wrong so I just rode the bus to it's terrible and off-point conclusion.
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Aug 24, 2014 10:33
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I like this show, but my favorite part so far has been the large group of idiots who wrote it off after two episodes, complained repeatedly about how dumb and stupid everything was while storylines were still in their infancy, then watched as others joined in on the hate without realizing how stupid they look.
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Aug 24, 2014 17:54
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IMB posted:I like this show, but my favorite part so far has been the large group of idiots who wrote it off after two episodes, complained repeatedly about how dumb and stupid everything was while storylines were still in their infancy, then watched as others joined in on the hate without realizing how stupid they look. Painting everyone who has issues with the show with some giant "stupid" brush just makes you look stupid, this show has it's issues and pretending it doesn't won't make them go away.
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Aug 24, 2014 18:43
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socialsecurity posted:Painting everyone who has issues with the show with some giant "stupid" brush just makes you look stupid, this show has it's issues and pretending it doesn't won't make them go away.
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Aug 24, 2014 20:23
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Gorn Myson posted:And you sure as gently caress won't find anyone being able to correctly identify and analyse these issues on TV IV though. But we can at least try. And for that I wrote a horrid little strawman dialogue for cheap humor. So in answer to everyone's question as to why I keep watching: The show inspires. It may inspire me personally to do really dumb things but it inspires nonetheless. M: Hey, W. How's that screenplay? W: It's coming along nicely. It's going to be a Godzilla reboot. M: Er, didn't we just experience a Godzilla reboot? W: Yeah but the studio thought it did really well so we're doing another one. The working title is "The Amazing Godzilla: Aftermath" M: "Aftermath"? W: Yeah see, in this reboot we're not going to give Godzilla an origin as it's not even relevant to the story we are trying to tell. In fact, we're not going to focus on Godzilla at all! Instead the story objective is to explore the lives of the shattered people left in the wake of a Godzilla attack. M: I dunno. Sounds like a bit of a downer for a giant monster movie... W: That would be because it is NOT a giant monster movie. It's going to be an intense character drama about the utterly wrecked people whose lives have been destroyed by a 900ft tall lizard-thing that jumped out of the ocean one day, wiped out millions of people and disappeared back beneath the waves without a trace. That sort of thing would really wreak havoc with your head. M: Well the part about the destruction sounds awesome. W: Are you even listening to what I'm saying? No, the story opens a couple years AFTER the attack and focuses on the survivors. We will not be producing a massive CG city attack sequence. It will save bucketloads of cash that the way... M: Uh huh, So what are you going to be doing with all the money you save by not making exciting action scenes? W: Well, for starters we are going to need to buy a tractor trailer's worth of Real Dolls. M: What the hell!? W: Giant lizard attacks will make you do crazy things, man. These are desperate people in need of closure! M: I don't even... hold on... 'attacks' denotes plural, so is Godzilla going to be coming back for another attack? W: *sigh* I had really hoped that we could move PAST the fantasical elements of my narrative as they are NOT central to the plot, but to answer your question: It will add to the feeling of dread and unbalance if we simply assume the possibility that it could happen again at any time. Might not though, you never really know. M: So a Godzilla of Damocles? W: Nah, I just don't want to paint myself into any corners since we're just leaving the door open for a sequel. M: Good call. So what do all these characters do in the wake of a Godzilla attack? W: Oh they totally freak the gently caress out! Everyone is consumed with grief when faced with the massive devastation but it manifests in all sorts of ways! A whole number of various cults sprout up because of the attacks. Like this one cult is all nihilistic and acts out in ways in an attempt to get other people to kill them. M: Sorta like a severe case of survivor's guilt? W: I'm trying not to weigh my story down with pop psychology terms. M: Oh... W: I've already written this one heavy scene where a cell leader in that cult gets kidnapped and almost killed but her captor has a change of heart. Once she regains her freedom however she grabs a broken piece of glass and rips out her own throat! M: Jesus! W: I know, right? M: Why would she do that!? W: She went nuts after she witnessed a Godzilla attack! It was a one-time event that was totally outside her understanding up until that moment! Dammit, pay attention already! Why do hosed up people do anything? They're hosed up! M: Okay okay, what are some other cults like? W: Well there's this one cult of personality centered around this one guy who can remove people's emotional pain. M: How's he do that? W: He hugs them. M: He just... hugs them? W: They're magic hugs. M: Magic hugs? W: Because he's a magic man. M: I thought you said you were trying to not introduce fantastical elements? W: No, I said I wasn't going to FOCUS on fantastical elements. You really suck at listening to stories, you know? Anyways he could be magic or he could be a nutter with a messianic complex and really awesome bodywork skills. I haven't really figured out how I want that particular thread to go. And there's going to be so many other messed up people! Like this one woman who compulsively pierces her body after witnessing Godzilla sharpen up a telephone pole and stab himself in the dick with it! M: I don't follow that logic at all! W: Lemme finish! Godzilla then plucks up her husband and uses him as a Prince Albert. She watches her husband die drowning in lizard dick blood! M: I... I take it all back. I am soooo glad you are not filming the attack sequence. W: Yeah, that might be a little too over the top. I might have to rework that part. M: Good. W: Instead she just pays whores to shoot her in the chest. M: Jeez! Out of curiosity how'd you come up with this concept anyways? W: Funny you should ask. I couldn't sleep one night so I went to my kitchen to make a snack. Upon opening the fridge I noticed that the carton of 2% milk had gone bad so I grabbed it and dumped it out in the sink. I started rummaging through my pile of leftovers when it hit me that maybe those leftovers were alive when I wasn't looking. They were alive and I just swept in and removed their beloved friend 2% Milk. How would they grapple with that emotionally? M: Why didn't you write that story? W: Because stories about talking food is kiddie poo poo, Godzilla sells. M: And the truck full of Real Dolls? W: They'll be used in two short but pivotal scenes... but after the wrap they will be taking center stage at Casa de W for private parties lasting until morning. M: You're sick, man.
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Aug 24, 2014 21:18
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^ tl;dr socialsecurity posted:Painting everyone who has issues with the show with some giant "stupid" brush just makes you look stupid, this show has it's issues and pretending it doesn't won't make them go away. I'm fairly certain that whining and bitching after episode two because mysteries aren't being solved and you're still not sure what's going on is a sign of being a pretty loving stupid person. If you don't like the show, you don't like the show. Nothing wrong with that. The issue has been a few people who want everything wrapped up tightly or need everything spelled out otherwise "this show sucks." Anyway, I'm off this topic. The preview for the last two episodes looked quite climactic. Looking forward to tonight's!
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Aug 24, 2014 21:21
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Shadow posted:^ tl;dr Who said this though? Could you go back and quote some people because most of the bitching I remember wasn't about mysteries not being solved after episode 2 is how nobody really liked any of the characters which was solved somewhat with episode 3 focusing on Matt.
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Aug 24, 2014 21:34
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