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GM's own engineer who WORKED on that particular part had a Cobalt shut off on him because his knee brushed the fob in the ignition. It had nothing else on the keychain. GM hosed up bad and they deserve to be burnt at the stake for this one. They released a poorly engineered product that was a safety hazard and worse yet KNEW that it was a safety hazard and did everything possible to bury it (including suing families of victims trying to raise awareness of the problem.) gently caress em. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 17:17
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Tommychu posted:Hey what's the difference between GM and the USSR? One is a socialist union that ran car companies, the other is a car company run by socialists and unions 
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Sep 4, 2014 17:40
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GM embraces it's love-hate relationship with basically everything that it does. It does really cool poo poo like the Gen 4 motors... And then makes awful dogshit like the J body. They have a ton of potential and can be promising at times, but they just burn all of their pent up good will on awful bullshit that should have never left the drafting table/CAD station.
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Sep 4, 2014 18:45
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Anecdotal to be sure, but it just seems like they squeeze so many pennies on stupid poo poo that shouldn't be a problem on a modern car. Everyone I know with a GM vehicle (even on the ones generally praised for their quality) has had something stupid and random go wrong. Worst offender has been my dad's Traverse. It's basically been a borderline lemon. He had to have multiple wheels replaced under warranty for corrosion after barely a year of ownership. He had a recurring problem with windows randomly going down at highway speed (really annoying in the winter), no source of the problem had been found. He had an issue with the headlights going out and then resetting while driving. Right now, none of the left hand speaker channels work consistently and the dealer hasn't been able to figure out why. The latest issue is paint bubbling and rust on the roof after just 4 years. The thing checks all the boxes to get good reviews. It drives well, is comfortable, versatile, decent fit and finish, and gets decent gas mileage for its size. Too bad it's been a basket case for random poo poo.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:24
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The really lovely part is that they covered it up internally as well, so newer cars were designed with the corvair-like flaw. You'd think they could have shot out a memo saying "when you're designing your new car, maybe use an ignition cylinder out of a silverado." The fact that a part known by the company to be defective in 2001 made it into a car that debuted in 2010 is probably the worst part.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:25
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Phone posted:GM embraces it's love-hate relationship with basically everything that it does. It does really cool poo poo like the Gen 4 motors... And then makes awful dogshit like the J body. I don't think the J-platform was particularly bad at the time it was designed - the Mark 2 Cavalier was quite well regarded when released (and the Camira might have been if the build quality and engines weren't so bad) The problem there was continuing to use something from the early 80s right through the 90s and early 2000s
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Sep 4, 2014 19:51
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let's break up GM like we did AT&T 
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Sep 4, 2014 20:28
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Am I turning into an old man? I am absolutely in love with the 6 but the Miata is not doing much of anything for me.
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Sep 4, 2014 20:43
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travisray2004 posted:Am I turning into an old man? I am absolutely in love with the 6 but the Miata is not doing much of anything for me. My brother has a '14 6 and oh my god it's a fantastic car. Black on black, fully loaded. The rear camera has a really nice wide angle that makes reversing amazingly easy. Seriously, I had always hated rear cameras until I saw that one in action.
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Sep 4, 2014 20:45
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CornHolio posted:My brother has a '14 6 and oh my god it's a fantastic car. Black on black, fully loaded. The rear camera has a really nice wide angle that makes reversing amazingly easy. Seriously, I had always hated rear cameras until I saw that one in action. I went to test drive the new 3 earlier this week, thinking I couldn't afford the 6 and there was a 6 with 23.3k on the hood. I love the 3 hatch but a similarly optioned out 3 is 25.5k locally. I'll give up the 2 mpg for more space and an overly better value. E: The ND rear end would be perfect if they removed the side lashes and integrated the turn signals into the taillight and had reverse in the middle of them. travisray2004 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 20:53
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Any new word on the 6 getting a diesel in the US?
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Sep 4, 2014 21:54
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Not really: http://blog.caranddriver.com/dateline-diesel-mazda-continues-development-of-north-america-bound-oil-burner/
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Sep 4, 2014 22:04
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bull3964 posted:GM hosed up bad and they deserve to be burnt at the stake for this one. They released a poorly engineered product that was a safety hazard and worse yet KNEW that it was a safety hazard and did everything possible to bury it (including suing families of victims trying to raise awareness of the problem.) gently caress em. GM DID get burned at the stake for pushing poorly engineered, poorly built, unwanted garbage; they went bankrupt, and we bailed them out
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Sep 5, 2014 00:26
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Snowdens Secret posted:GM DID get burned at the stake for pushing poorly engineered, poorly built, unwanted garbage; they went bankrupt, and we bailed them out So did Chrysler, and Ford would have if they hadn't coincidentally taken an operating loan just months before.
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Sep 5, 2014 01:34
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Ford's still paying off those loans, too lol if the economy held together another year or two, GM and Chrysler probably would have secured regular loans, too, as all 3 were already taking steps to modernize Ford got exceptionally lucky e- also Chrysler wasn't really helped by Mercedes raiding their corporate accounts Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 01:42
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Snowdens Secret posted:GM DID get burned at the stake for pushing poorly engineered, poorly built, unwanted garbage; they went bankrupt, and we bailed them out "Burned at the stake" as in civil and criminal penalties for the culpable parties, not more financial penalties. They also went bankrupt due to mismanagement, not because of their actual products.
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Sep 5, 2014 01:55
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VikingSkull posted:Ford's still paying off those loans, too lol I remember stories from a couple of higher ups at a Japanese automaker or two saying that the bailout probably kept the whole industry from going down. But, GOVERNMENT MOTORS  bull3964 posted:"Burned at the stake" as in civil and criminal penalties for the culpable parties, not more financial penalties. I also remember seeing lots of people thinking there would be criminal charges filed against people from GM. I told them they'd be just as severe as the ones for the tobacco executives.
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Sep 5, 2014 02:21
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VikingSkull posted:Ford's still paying off those loans, too lol Ford realized they were a bloated piece of poo poo in 05, and started cutting the fat. They even had a bitchin name for it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_Forward Chrysler was done dirty and dumped a couple months before poo poo hit the fan. GM sailed strait into the storm with their head firmly up their rear end.
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Sep 5, 2014 02:23
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bull3964 posted:"Burned at the stake" as in civil and criminal penalties for the culpable parties, not more financial penalties. You could argue mismanagement is a GM product
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Sep 5, 2014 02:26
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I'm really liking that this whole " we were on the cusp of victory until Daimler treacherously stabbed us in the back!  " excuse for everything bad Chrysler ever did is really starting to take hold.
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Sep 5, 2014 02:45
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Throatwarbler posted:I'm really liking that this whole " we were on the cusp of victory until Daimler treacherously stabbed us in the back! It's more like "We were treading water and maybe even making a little forward progress until Daimler stole our life preserver and pissed in our face".
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Sep 5, 2014 03:03
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Throatwarbler posted:I'm really liking that this whole " we were on the cusp of victory until Daimler treacherously stabbed us in the back! Before daimler we got the viper. After daimler we got the hellcat. During daimler, we got the PT cruiser. I rest my case.
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Sep 5, 2014 03:08
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Powershift posted:Before daimler we got the viper. hosed up if true
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Sep 5, 2014 03:11
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fknlo posted:I remember stories from a couple of higher ups at a Japanese automaker or two saying that the bailout probably kept the whole industry from going down. But, GOVERNMENT MOTORS I've been working at a large auto auction for 15 years now, and this is accurate. As it was, we cut like 40% of our employees, and my department went from getting around 150-200 cars a day to, I poo poo you not, zero on a lot of days. We barely survived. There's no way that Chrysler and GM going under wouldn't have destroyed the lives of millions of people, myself included. We only started to get consistently somewhat busy starting last year, and we average 75-125 cars a day now. 6 years later and we've yet to get back to where we were. That's not even touching on how many of our smaller customers went under due to being unable to secure financing for their customers anymore, or if they were a small new dealer, they had their franchise yanked out from under them and consolidated under some of our larger customers. Powershift posted:Ford realized they were a bloated piece of poo poo in 05, and started cutting the fat. They even had a bitchin name for it Yup, GM is incredibly stupid, and has been for decades at this point. Wheeee posted:It's more like "We were treading water and maybe even making a little forward progress until Daimler stole our life preserver and pissed in our face". More or less this. They didn't buy Chrysler specifically to steal money, but they sure as poo poo used Chrysler's assets to pad their books, and weren't very good stewards of either Chrysler's slowly building success or the brand itself, for that matter. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 03:13
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bull3964 posted:"Burned at the stake" as in civil and criminal penalties for the culpable parties, not more financial penalties. What country do you think you live in? This is America, executives don't go to prison for that sort of thing. We've decoupled the executive class from any consequences should they gently caress up.
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Sep 5, 2014 03:32
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VikingSkull posted:I've been working at a large auto auction for 15 years now, and this is accurate. As it was, we cut like 40% of our employees, and my department went from getting around 150-200 cars a day to, I poo poo you not, zero on a lot of days. We barely survived. There's no way that Chrysler and GM going under wouldn't have destroyed the lives of millions of people, myself included. This is what people who bitch about the GM bailout don't understand. These companies are so ridiculously massive and employ the services of so many other supplier companies that Ford, GM, or even Chrysler going under would be an unprecedented loving disaster in America. Does GM deserve to die? Yes, absolutely, but it would destroy tens of thousands of lives to let the company go under. Honestly GM should have been seized and nationalized and run like a Canadian crown corporation, just as the major telecoms should be in North America.
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Sep 5, 2014 03:40
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Throatwarbler posted:I'm really liking that this whole " we were on the cusp of victory until Daimler treacherously stabbed us in the back! You realize that, pre-merger, Chrysler had the largest cash reserves of any automaker on the planet. Right?
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Sep 5, 2014 03:42
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Seems pretty clear if GM is too big to fail then it stands to reason we should, as it has already been suggested, break it up Bell-style and spin them all off as their own entities.
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Sep 5, 2014 03:49
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KakerMix posted:Seems pretty clear if GM is too big to fail then it stands to reason we should, as it has already been suggested, break it up Bell-style and spin them all off as their own entities. I don't think it was just a "too big to fail" thing. The banks loving everyone and then making money unavailable for anyone would have started a complete collapse from the top without the bailout. Like right now if GM went under it would be really bad but I think the industry itself would survive. This was not the case in 2008. fknlo fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 03:57
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Speaking of banks, we let GMAC get spun off and then bailed that out, too.KakerMix posted:Seems pretty clear if GM is too big to fail then it stands to reason we should, as it has already been suggested, break it up Bell-style and spin them all off as their own entities. Step 1 would be to split off Pontiac and Oldsmobile
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Sep 5, 2014 04:02
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KakerMix posted:Seems pretty clear if GM is too big to fail then it stands to reason we should, as it has already been suggested, break it up Bell-style and spin them all off as their own entities. The problem with that plan is that the only things GM has that are worth anything are the Corvette, Camaro, and trucks. Their trucks basically sell due to incentives and redneck brand loyalty as they're inferior to Ford and RAM, the Camaro is a fat turd that sells based on past brand strength, and the Corvette is legit pretty awesome but is a low-volume car that isn't worth much outside of the context of a brand halo. None of the pieces of GM are worth poo poo, better to just nationalize the whole thing, completely gut the management from top to bottom, and rebuild the company.
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Sep 5, 2014 04:13
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Some serious butthurt going on in this thread. Could be solved if everyone drove a Miata.
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Sep 5, 2014 04:26
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Wheeee posted:This is what people who bitch about the GM bailout don't understand. These companies are so ridiculously massive and employ the services of so many other supplier companies that Ford, GM, or even Chrysler going under would be an unprecedented loving disaster in America. Does GM deserve to die? Yes, absolutely, but it would destroy tens of thousands of lives to let the company go under. The way the bankruptcy was handled left a bad taste in the mouths of many. It was like they chucked the book out the window and made things up as they went along. If the government said "we're going to bail you out by providing you with loans/secured debt/whatever but you've got to restructure," that'd be fine. The way it went along though seemed convoluted and arbitrary at best, and a lot of people got screwed. And I don't think the choice was really "bail out the automakers or they'll shut their doors," and both 43 and 44 said this bail out was going to save jobs. Instead, the same cuts that would've happened either way, happened, and in some cases were more dramatic than probably would've happened if GM had proceeded through a normal corporate bankruptcy, especially in the "hidden indirect costs". Losing two of the big three would've been devastating, but I don't think that's what was going to happen either way. A lot of people thought the writing was on the wall for Chrysler, granted (especially when Cerberus stepped in), but there was no way GM would've shut it's doors during a bankruptcy. Also, there's the fact that GM's corporate culture doesn't really seem to have changed since before the bail out. And if you nationalize GM all you're going to get is American Leyland.
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Sep 5, 2014 04:49
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The US will never nationalize anything other than vital infrastructure. If the choice was nationalize GM or let them die, they would've died. poo poo, look at the reaction to Obamacare, and that's a relatively important aspect of society, healthcare. Now imagine that fight, but over a company that makes bleh cars with two or three actually valuable nameplates.
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Sep 5, 2014 04:55
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Also, Volvo should have bought SAAB, and
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Sep 5, 2014 05:27
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On a lighter note, the results from C&D's 8th lightning lap are in.  The 918 is an untouchable space car as expected, the NISMO GTR beat out the Viper TA, and the Camaro Z28/Corvette Z51 mostly cleaned up what was left. I'd like to see the Z06, both Hellcats, and the other two hyper cars in the next one. If the 2015 Viper TA 2.0 gets Trofeo R's and the 6 piston Brembos, it should beat the NISMO and might even fend off the hefty Z06. With the Miata twins and Mustang coming out next year, there's no better time to be an enthusiast.
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Sep 5, 2014 08:45
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atomicthumbs posted:Also, Volvo should have bought SAAB, and No, you see, Volvo should've bought Volvo so that
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Sep 5, 2014 13:43
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Goddamn that Z/28 is a savage beast.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:09
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Good god the 918 is in a completely different league. Shedding 7 seconds off the 2nd place car is seriously fast.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:41
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VERTiG0 posted:Goddamn that Z/28 is a savage beast. No, you see Wheeee posted:the Camaro is a fat turd that sells based on past brand strength Is the GTI they ran a mk7? If so, that's a pretty sad showing.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:46
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