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Craptacular! posted:EDIT: And if the Doctor's mad amounts of chalkboard calculations are about Gallifrey, then he sure didn't spend all that time on the Planet Christmas to much good use, did he? He was actively defending it against every evil alien race in the universe, he didn't have the time. And maybe Trenzalore had no chalk.
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Sep 8, 2014 03:09
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pgroce posted:I disagree that this episode "saw him as a hero." A hero participates directly in the action and moves it along; the Doctor didn't do that. He was more a witness, or maybe a prophet. (The bad kind who's wrong most of the time, it turned out.) Maybe "saw him as heroic?"
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Sep 8, 2014 03:21
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For all the Capaldi "good doctor/bad doctor" talk, reemeber that he has been quoted in interviews after they had filmed this whole season, that he is still working out how to play the Doctor, and I'm sure the writers are also getting into a groove. Next season you'll be bale to make a better call as things will be more consistent.
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Sep 8, 2014 03:50
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Spatula City posted:Seems to me like Twelve's a lot harder to pin down as just one or two characteristics. But if there was one word I'd use for him, it's "honest". "The Doctor Lies" was a line repeated annoyingly often in a GRRM-esque way during Eleven's run, but it strikes me that it might no longer be true in this incarnation. Everything I've observed in Deep Breath and Into the Dalek remains true, and it seems like for a change Moffat's developing a really solid character arc. Hey, I liked the Cracks! I will admit that I enjoy the 'puzzle box plots', and I think of all of them in New Who, the Cracks were the best one. It fits a few things that are important for that sort of overplot: -It presents a twist with enough evidence that we can understand where it's going. Where the Impossible Girl plotline, or the whole thing with River Song, or even Torchwood failed was that we just didn't have the evidence to know what they were doing. The Cracks had enough plot going on with them that we could figure out at the very least what they were, if not the exact reason they exist. Looking back to the RTD stories, Bad Wolf did this wonderfully; Harold Saxon did well enough, but I personally think just didn't have enough spotlight for it. I think Saxon would've worked out really well if we saw or heard him directly in episodes before Utopia, rather than just always hearing about him. -The Cracks help the plot. Something I think Moffat can do really well is some high-grade time fuckery, and the Cracks let that happen a lot. But every time they turned up in series five, it was in service to the main plot of the episode. Sometimes they invent the problem like in the Eleventh Hour, sometimes they provide the solution like in the Angels two-parter, but they never get in the way or weigh down a plot. The same can't be said about the Impossible Girl plot or River Song. In the RTD era they're mostly fairly out of the way and don't influence the story at all until they become the focus (excepting that Torchwood and Saxon both blow up alien spaceships on Christmas), which is fine enough in this way, but they run into the third important element. -They remain relevant. The important part of these overplots is foreshadowing and establishment, laying out the pieces so that they can come together in a satisfying way in the finale, and the Cracks do this perfectly. They get enough time to showcase what they are, what they can do, and how they raise the stakes. Of all the previous, non-Cracks plotlines, it's honestly probably the River Song one that does it best, because as much as she steals the spotlight, and as bad as she was sometimes, she at least got enough focus for us to understand it. The Impossible Girl got that spotlight, but didn't do anything with it, and RTD's overplots almost universally were just too far in the background to do it (Bad Wolf got as much focus as it needed). For what it's worth, while we're not far enough into the Promised Land story to really make any verdicts, it's shaping up to be one of the good ones. It's getting just enough focus every week for us to learn more about it and let it get established, while not getting in the way. That could all go out the window between now and the payoff, but right now it's got the right idea. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 04:06
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I won't say there are no exceptions, but I generally think a mystery shouldn't run for more than one season. The Cracks in Time went on for way too long.
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Sep 8, 2014 04:16
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Jurgan posted:I won't say there are no exceptions, but I generally think a mystery shouldn't run for more than one season. The Cracks in Time went on for way too long. But it went exactly one season. We found out about them in The Eleventh Hour and they were resolved in The Big Bang.
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Sep 8, 2014 04:30
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I really don't like the sort of half-heartedness they do the arcs with. I'd either prefer stories and no season plot, or just go full on Buffy and adopt the "half-arc" where you dedicate 1/4-1/2 of the episodes per season directly to the overarching plot. The cracks were about the best you could get with the way they do it because they were intricately woven into the very beginning of the season and Amy's life story. I just think this stuff with 30-second Missy teases and peppering "Bad Wolf" in random places is a really silly way to go about a season arc. Even in the really "big" arcs they tried to develop like River, it always comes down to some extremely vague hints once per episode or so and then a massive twist or infodump as a payoff. Admittedly, this is more difficult than it was with Buffy because each season of Buffy had 22 45-minute episodes to play with, and Doctor Who has just over half that. Still, I think it would serve them better to either drop the vague, detached buildup and only do standalone stories or else dedicate maybe one or two extra episodes per season to the meta-plot.
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Sep 8, 2014 04:30
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jng2058 posted:But it went exactly one season. We found out about them in The Eleventh Hour and they were resolved in The Big Bang. They were still showing up as late as The Time of the Doctor. They should have been done with after The Big Bang, and they certainly shouldn't have been The Doctor's Greatest Fear.
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Sep 8, 2014 04:47
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Jurgan posted:they certainly shouldn't have been The Doctor's Greatest Fear. While I agree with this only because I think it worked a lot better when left up to the imagination... what would actually be worse to the Doctor than his TARDIS blowing up and destroying all of spacetime?
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Sep 8, 2014 04:50
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Jurgan posted:They were still showing up as late as The Time of the Doctor. They should have been done with after The Big Bang, and they certainly shouldn't have been The Doctor's Greatest Fear. The only Crack after The Big Bang was the one in Time of the Doctor. I agree that they shouldn't be his 'greatest fear' (although it does make some sense that the Doctor's greatest fear would be something like that), but the Crack turning up in Time of the Doctor made sense as sort of a shorthand. We knew from their season that the Cracks vary in symptom, but that they are a stressed gap in the space between universes. The one in Time was something different, causing the same effect.
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Sep 8, 2014 04:52
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I loved this episode, I love Doctor Who, I love Capaldi, I loved River Song, I loved the cracks, I've loved all of Moffat's megaplots save Clara's— though I do love her character now—, and as any wrestling fan in this thread can attest, I hate most things. This thread confuses me.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:02
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The Crack in Time of the Doctor was definitely intended to be distinct from those from season 5 (basically the Time Lords finding the scarred over remains of the events of season 5 and using it to their own benefit) but I do think bringing it back in muddied the waters a bit, especially since they made the cardinal sin of showing the crack as what the Doctor saw in The God Complex, which was far better left to the viewer's imagination. Edit: LividLiquid posted:I loved this episode.... This thread confuses me. Because this thread largely loved this episode too? 
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Sep 8, 2014 05:06
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Did I ever tell you folks about what happened at the World Tour screening when the Doctor said "Oh captain my captain"? The whole theater just... sighed. It was like the room itself shuddered sadly.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:11
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Jerusalem posted:Because this thread largely loved this episode too? Most people who even liked the episode crapped all over the spoon scene, which was weird for me, because it was my favorite scene. I'm not saying "STOP THE NEGATIVITY!" so much as I'm wondering if I watch Doctor Who differently than some, and differently than I watch most other media. It would make sense. I came to as an adult who works in film, sort of, so I'm more forgiving of a lot of things now that I understand the realities of production. Most things I get angry about when I watch, I've liked since I was young. I think I've grown more accepting of small flaws, but selectively.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:13
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LividLiquid posted:I binged it. The thread, I mean. I'd say many people in the thread loved the episode, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "largely." OP posted:The First Law of Doctor Who fans says: "No substantive discussion group shall be entirely able to agree on the merits of any given story, not even the 'except X, that just plain sucked/rocked' corollary to this law." 
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Sep 8, 2014 05:18
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Now that Capaldi is embracing his inner Pertwee, I eagerly await the weekly "I sees somethin' in me fields last night" yokel.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Now that Capaldi is embracing his inner Pertwee, I eagerly await the weekly "I sees somethin' in me fields last night" yokel. I'm upset we haven't seen a single grumpy old country poacher stomping about in his gumboots yet.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:54
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LividLiquid posted:I binged it. The thread, I mean. I'd say many people in the thread loved the episode, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "largely." I cannot remember an episode of Doctor Who that this thread has been more positive about, excepting the 50th maybe. Maybe it was because I was a bit cool on it at first (the ending was a bit too silly for me at the time (I've since re-watched and reconsidered- the silliness totally works)), but I was struck by the total lack of dissent until like the day after it aired, and even then it was just one or two people going "meh". I remember one guy said the spoon bit was a bit silly, and one other person agreed... and all of a sudden "most people who liked the episode crapped all over the spoon scene"? Did you think the one guy who disliked Capaldi (poor madman...) and went on and on about it was actually half a dozen different people? Are you sure you weren't reading another forum? Like, don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be dickish about this, but ultimately I think you being wrong is a good thing, even from your perspective. And you could not be more wrong. (Unless I've been reading another thread or something. I guess I could be far off. It's not like I did a statistical analysis on the tone myself.) I guess it's a fantastic example of how you notice posts you disagree with more than ones you agree with or something? I don't know, it's amusing whatever the case.
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Sep 8, 2014 06:42
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CobiWann posted:utterly ridiculous but insanely delightful sword vs. spoon duel "insanely delightful" Definitely some serious spoon hate in this thread.
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Sep 8, 2014 07:20
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I didn't like the swordy-spoony scene, but not because of its ridiculousness. It was just kind of painfully shot, since they had to obscure the fact that a spoon is an awkward as poo poo weapon to be dueling with and the fact that they couldn't actually shoot the duel in a realistic way (partly because of probable lack of training, partly because, again, spoon). The duel with the Sheriff was just fine if a little shaky, but the one with the Doctor didn't really work.
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Sep 8, 2014 07:26
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It worked for me because Robin was clearly having a great time and mostly just playing around with this mad old bastard with the blue box he just encountered in the middle of the forest. Obviously a sword is going to win any point of contact with a spoon, but Robin was just having a bit of a laugh. A laugh. Ha. HA! HA HA!  Edit: But seriously, it's pretty much the old story of Robin and Little John bumping into each other on a log over a river and both refusing to back up, so they fight until one ends up in the water at which point they become fast friends. It's a sunny day, Robin's in a good mood and wants to have some fun, and if this mad old duffer wants to pull out a spoon then he'll play along because it's not like there's much else to do in the forest in 1190....ish.
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Sep 8, 2014 07:44
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Jerusalem posted:I'm upset we haven't seen a single grumpy old country poacher stomping about in his gumboots yet. Or UNIT soldiers asking if they can have a "NAAFI break" yet, for that matter. 
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Sep 8, 2014 07:49
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Jerusalem posted:Edit: But seriously, it's pretty much the old story of Robin and Little John bumping into each other on a log over a river and both refusing to back up, so they fight until one ends up in the water at which point they become fast friends. It's a sunny day, Robin's in a good mood and wants to have some fun, and if this mad old duffer wants to pull out a spoon then he'll play along because it's not like there's much else to do in the forest in 1190....ish. As a child I listened to Jim Weiss audiobooks of stuff like Robin Hood ad nauseum so this was a story I knew very well. You know, come to think of it, that's probably why I took so readily to Big Finish audio stuff. I had the Narnia books on abridged cassette, too. And some old recordings of The Shadow. Incidentally, my mom having grown up with The Shadow and the like was a large part of how I got her listening to Big Finish. Which reminds me: TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD: MY MOM LISTENS TO BIG FINISH, WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE!?
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Sep 8, 2014 07:50
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This episode really felt like it needed two episodes. Everything after Capaldi gets captured the final time was way too rushed and while I enjoyed the episode on a whole, nothing involving the golden arrow made sense, which my viewing companion complained about loudly through the whole thing, leaving me to take the moderate stance on the issue. I think I can understand where people don't see Capaldi as The Doctor. In this episode he's basically a big whinging baby who gets dragged around, makes a fuss, argues and doesn't really do anything until the peasant revolt-- which again was blazed through and really needed some room to breathe. It certainly didn't seem to be the same Doctor we saw at the end of the first episode and throughout the second. If Matt Smith was an old man in the body of a young one, Capaldi in this episode was a petulant child in the body of an old man. Clara continues to be brilliant, though I thought the dress didn't suit her quite as much as the green victorian number in the first episode. Her and Robin Hood absolutely owned the entire episode, with a good showing by the Sheriff. The robots were really neat. I liked the design a lot. It had a very "Doctor Who" feel to it to me. While I wouldn't call Robot of Sherwood a great episode, it was very entertaining. Of course, I say the same thing about Minuet in Hell, so-- Three episodes in and I'm a little disappointed in Series 8. The writing has been quite rubbish, Capaldi hasn't yet reached me in his portrayal of the Doctor, and the arc storyline (while thankfully having very little focus this episode) hasn't yet given me a reason to care about it.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:00
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Jerusalem posted:I'm upset we haven't seen a single grumpy old country poacher stomping about in his gumboots yet. And there's the recurring cameo for Craig Ferguson.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:00
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DoctorWhat posted:TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD: MY MOM LISTENS TO BIG FINISH, WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE!? Convince Occupation to listen to one, then we can talk.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:02
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Potsticker posted:I think I can understand where people don't see Capaldi as The Doctor. In this episode he's basically a big whinging baby who gets dragged around, makes a fuss, argues and doesn't really do anything[...] The Doctor actually regenerated into Clara and then went and picked up that dipstick from Pompeii as her cover. Then used Time Lord science-magic to falsify his memories.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:05
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Jsor posted:The Doctor actually regenerated into Clara and then went and picked up that dipstick from Pompeii as her cover. Then used Time Lord science-magic to falsify his memories. I could get behind this theory-- except that Clara hasn't touched the Sonic Screwdriver and I'm afraid that I cannot fathom a post-revival Doctor that doesn't have his or her hands glued to that silly piece of technology.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:08
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BSam posted:Convince Occupation to listen to one, then we can talk. Ohohohohoho, my dear, dear BSam, it's only a matter of time... yes, a matter of time...
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Sep 8, 2014 08:13
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DoctorWhat posted:Ohohohohoho, my dear, dear BSam, it's only a matter of time... yes, a matter of time... Full disclosure, I am currently listening to one (The bonus release "The Four Doctors" which is fun), but yeah, I'd love to see the day that Occ is such a Who fan that he will eagerly devour the Big Finish audios. (Edit: The Four Doctors was quite good, if slightly "timey wimey" for want of a better word, but the final few minutes is brilliant when the doctors all interact briefly.) BSam fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 08:17
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Goddamn, Spare Parts was loving incredible. It completely lives up to its reputation. Now I'm listening to The One Doctor and it's so charming hearing Biggins ham it up.
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Sep 8, 2014 09:13
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Jerusalem posted:The Crack in Time of the Doctor was definitely intended to be distinct from those from season 5 (basically the Time Lords finding the scarred over remains of the events of season 5 and using it to their own benefit) but I do think bringing it back in muddied the waters a bit, especially since they made the cardinal sin of showing the crack as what the Doctor saw in The God Complex, which was far better left to the viewer's imagination. To be honest, that and Clara's plea to the Time Lords were some of the things that a decent script editor could've picked up and changed. I would've much liked it if Clara quoted the Doctor's "my real name is not the point" line from Name of the Doctor.
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Sep 8, 2014 10:04
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I'm on board for an irreverent DWwiki penned by goons. Will happily do some of the writing/entries for it. There should definitely be a 'continuities' division, for the Doctors/stories. Consider the 8th Doctor and his multiple strands of history. TV adventures - 2, but he also has a Big Finish background and an EDA books background, so those need to be addressed as separate things, instead of trying to jam them together haphazardly into one whole.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:35
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The_Doctor posted:I'm on board for an irreverent DWwiki penned by goons. Will happily do some of the writing/entries for it. I agree with this whole heartedly.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:02
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I watched Black Orchid because someone told me it had a cricket bit in it and I would like it. My review is that it had a cricket bit, and I liked it.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:40
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Brett824 posted:I watched Black Orchid because someone told me it had a cricket bit in it and I would like it. My review is that it had a cricket bit, and I liked it. The commentary is hilarious - they all hate it and constantly slag off Matthew Waterhouse's non-stop eating.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:42
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OOC: Doctor: WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S ONLY A FLESH WOUND!?
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Sep 8, 2014 14:42
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thexerox123 posted:While I agree with this only because I think it worked a lot better when left up to the imagination... what would actually be worse to the Doctor than his TARDIS blowing up and destroying all of spacetime? The War Doctor. The entire arc of series 7 was about him running from his past, so what could be scarier than coming face to face with it?
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Sep 8, 2014 15:40
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Jurgan posted:The War Doctor. The entire arc of series 7 was about him running from his past, so what could be scarier than coming face to face with it? Destroying the whole universe before you even get a chance to reconcile with your past! 
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Sep 8, 2014 15:43
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thexerox123 posted:Destroying the whole universe before you even get a chance to reconcile with your past! Yeah, this sort of thing is why I think there's some merit to the Cracks being the Doctor's biggest fear. They're a problem of his own creation (at least, he'd probably blame himself for them), that menace not in a quantifiable way like the Daleks, but by enforcing unreality on their victims. For the Doctor, someone so heavily focused on understanding and helping (case in point: The Robot of Sherwood, actually!), I can understand the Cracks terrifying him. They do something unfathomable to their victims, something that even he can't fix, or even really grapple with. I still don't think it should have been shown, because it would be so much stronger if left to our imagination. But since my imagination probably would've produced the Cracks if I'd put thought into it, I can see why it works.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:03
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