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Zonekeeper posted:Also remember that the destruction by the post-Freeza villains was mostly localized to Earth. Had Cell or Buu gone on a universe-wide destruction spree, I'm sure Bills would have heard of them. Freeza had a wide enough sphere of influence that about a quarter of the known universe (most of the northern quadrant) was directly under his control. I give you Cell, but Buu literally killed 4/5 of the god kings of the universe. He should have heard of that. Interestingly, DB and DBZ mirror each other in villain structure. It starts with a power hungry dictator and his minions (Freeza and Pilaf), then face technology based villains (The Red Ribbon Army and the Red Ribbon Army's science projects) and concludes with them going up against a supernatural, demonic foe (Piccolo and Buu)
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Sep 15, 2014 12:37
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Didn't Supreme Kai just end up botching up and breaking the legendary Z Sword? That's pretty important. And terrible.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:00
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The Z Sword was a legendary useless piece of poo poo that was only useful because it released an old man once you broke it.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:06
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The sword was legendary because a Kaioshin was sealed inside. Just another thing that the other four forgot to tell him about. And technically, it did grant Gohan ultimate power, just in a roundabout way.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:10
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On the other hand, the jackass basically had Gohan try to bat a chunk of adamantium out of the air with the sword and it never crossed his mind that this could go wrong in any way. Supreme Kai is what would happen if the universe was a family owned business and everybody died except the teenage son who gets blazed all day.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:16
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If only Supreme Kai got blazed all day.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:18
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There was nobody to tell him how.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:38
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Supreme Kai is what would happen if the universe was a family owned business and everybody died except the teenage son who gets blazed all day.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:39
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Yeah that's the thing that bugged me most about the new movie, that the god of loving destruction used a pissant like Freiza as his metric for badass. Dude was garbage, and he must have known about Buu. Yeah I was pretty upset at that too. Way I see it, the entire Buu ordeal got bottled up and dealt with during Bill's slumbering years. Last time he bothered to hit the snooze button Freiza was the top dog in the playground. Buu is an ancient threat, probably long before Freiza's race even existed; that's when warriors had to be chiseled out of granite in order to compete with the mud thrown back in those days. Freiza is akin to one of those forgettable presidents you learned about in history class that had no massive conflicts to make their regime seem interesting.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:52
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Parrotine posted:Freiza is akin to one of those forgettable presidents you learned about in history class that had no massive conflicts to make their regime seem interesting. That kind of downplays the achievement of Goku/Trunks defeating them. I'd say they are at least a Caligula. Or someone like that. Caligula is the only "famously evil ruler" I can think of right now, it's not a perfect fit.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:07
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Ivan the Terrible? When you think evil rulers, shouldn't the guy with the title of "the Terrible" always be first? P.S. I know nothing about Ivan the Terrible.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:15
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Freeza's more like an evil Alexander the Great to Cold's King Phillip. Just replace military genius with superpowers.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:18
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The fact that Freeza retroactively becomes a nobody is one of the weaknesses of the series, imo. Freeza was awesome. And then Supreme Kai comes along and is like "Oh, we could all beat him with a single blow". And later still, Beers comes along and it turns out Freeza was his lackey or something?
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Sep 15, 2014 17:46
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Yes the power creep for bioth the antagonists and protagonists is one of the series biggest weaknesses, but that is hardly news.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:48
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Frieza and his family of mutants were the most powerful dudes in space, he's a good person to measure against. It's just that the Goku and fam's presence on Earth inspired stronger enemies to be made or resurrected.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:19
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Frieza was the strongest normal person around. There was no reason to measure the strength of everyone based on a single magical pink monster.
MastG fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 21:23
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Supreme Kai probably wasn't even aware Frieza could transform considering how bad he was at his job.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:11
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Supreme Kai is just like every other character that isn't a saiyan. Impressive when first introduced but ultimately doesn't mean poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:56
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Supreme Kai was impressive?
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Sep 16, 2014 00:09
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His mohawk was pretty sweet.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:10
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I rocked all my friends as Supreme Kai in DBZ Budokai 2.  And wasn't he actually the best at instant transmission too? Like he didn't even need to sense a power level to go that place or something?
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Sep 16, 2014 00:13
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Beef Waifu posted:His mohawk was pretty sweet.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:25
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nonrev posted:I rocked all my friends as Supreme Kai in DBZ Budokai 2. I'd argue the worst because he did it all of 3 times and ran out of power.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:25
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Momomo posted:Supreme Kai was impressive? ...what? e: oh gently caress. My reading comprehension is bad apparently facebook jihad fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 03:05
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nonrev posted:And wasn't he actually the best at instant transmission too? Like he didn't even need to sense a power level to go that place or something? Yeah, he had some cool instant movement ability because he was a Kai. Very helpful for running away and not ever leaving his realm, like he do.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:30
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Supreme Kai's IT got Gohan to safety to train. That was actually an important thing, possibly even vital, until Toriyama lost his mind and said "I'm gonna throw out all this build-up and make Goku the hero again." loving Buu Saga.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:10
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The Buu Saga was a mess, but a fun mess at that. There was no way in hell Toriyama could top the Cell saga, it was suicide to try from the get-go but he gave it his best shot anyways
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Sep 16, 2014 05:45
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Gohan was always my favorite character in DBZ so watching him become the big hero was amazing to my 12 year old self.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:45
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Same here. I have no doubt that part of why the Cell Saga is my favorite is because it's all about Gohan and I was a little kid when I watched DBZ so naturally Gohan was my favorite character. I certainly never liked Goku at all. People ask "why are all the heroes in anime and JRPGs absurdly young" and the reason really is self-evident. These are things meant for teenagers so naturally teenagers are going to favor protagonists around their own age. I think Cell Saga Gohan might prove that. Of course, regardless of nostalgia or any of the rest of it, Gohan going SSJ2 and defeating Cell is just absolutely perfect. I regard most of DBZ as a guilty pleasure (compared to the original Dragon Ball which is legit quality) but that whole part was really well-done.
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Sep 16, 2014 07:12
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I like how he chumped him with two shots All these overblown battles and gohan ends it in a second. This is what happens when you wake the baby
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Sep 16, 2014 07:43
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Buu Saga would've been good if it ended the way it teased for the entire series which is Gohan takes over and beats the big bad when everyone's dead instead of "lol nope Goku saves the day again."
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Sep 16, 2014 07:45
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Parrotine posted:I like how he chumped him with two shots Yeah, although my favorite fighting bits were Vegeta vs Imperfect Cell and his Final Flash near victory over perfect Cell. I always figured that moment, combined with Goku's Kamehameha Wave near victory, meant that they had roughly similar maximum power, although Goku operated on a higher plateau than Vegeta. I was a huge sucker for the whole Android/Cell Saga.
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Sep 16, 2014 08:00
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Wasn't Kibito the specialist in instant transmission?
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Sep 16, 2014 09:03
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Petiso posted:Wasn't Kibito the specialist in instant transmission? He used instant transmission, like, two times and when the situation hinged on it, he said 'Nope, sorry, out of juice'.
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Sep 16, 2014 09:12
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Tae posted:Buu Saga would've been good if it ended the way it teased for the entire series which is Gohan takes over and beats the big bad when everyone's dead instead of "lol nope Goku saves the day again." Vegito was awesome, but not enough to offset the chumping that Gohan got. Especially because everything that happened after his last power-up (letting the kids fuse to fight, letting Buu absorb Gotenks and Piccolo, missing the earring, getting absorbed himself) was all because he suddenly became an idiot.
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Sep 16, 2014 09:14
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I re-watched the Dabura and Gohan fight today and it's so boring
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Sep 16, 2014 09:51
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Some Numbers posted:Vegito was awesome, but not enough to offset the chumping that Gohan got. Especially because everything that happened after his last power-up (letting the kids fuse to fight, letting Buu absorb Gotenks and Piccolo, missing the earring, getting absorbed himself) was all because he suddenly became an idiot. It's still not worse than Goku. "Well looking back, I probably could have beaten Buu when I first fought him in Super Saiyan 3, but I wanted to give you all a turn!"
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Sep 16, 2014 10:59
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:It's still not worse than Goku. "Well looking back, I probably could have beaten Buu when I first fought him in Super Saiyan 3, but I wanted to give you all a turn!" Yeah, his whole 'the next generation must learn how to take care of this' would work a lot better if the next generation would have actually taken care of it.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:08
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Just thought of how to make buy saga the best. The mystic transformation could only latch onto a persona. Cue The Great Sayaman getting it and fighting buu (and not jobbimg on him). All future defenders of the earth take up the mantle due to the immense power it grants, but only if you're as dorky when doing it.
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Sep 16, 2014 12:15
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Just thought of how to make buy saga the best. The mystic transformation could only latch onto a persona. Cue The Great Sayaman getting it and fighting buu (and not jobbimg on him). All future defenders of the earth take up the mantle due to the immense power it grants, but only if you're as dorky when doing it. Kinda reminds me of Akibaranger where the main characters were only picked to be heroes because they were just that delusional.
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Sep 16, 2014 13:11
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