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CJSwiss posted:"If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force." As this quote shows, Palpatine is multi-dimensional in that his false persona is usually the only intelligent, reasonable character on screen in those scenes.
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Sep 21, 2014 08:12
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The Sith can definitely come across as one dimensional but I think that is part of their charm. Palpatine goes into full on evil muppet mode because he knows that he has won and that he gets to take a thousand years of pent up hatred out on a bunch of dweebs. After the initial victory lap of cackling force lightning evil the Empire just took the nasty fascistic elements that had grown in the Republic and legitimized them through the military and Moff structure. Tarkin and the other Imperial leaders were there before the Clone Wars began so there was some gross stuff present long before Palpatine proclaimed himself Emperor, it's made abundantly clear in the movies even, the Senate applauds him while he announces their jobs now have a shelf life. While they're evil, the movies make it clear that there is still some sense to the Sith's actions. Sure Vader kills Ozzel for his incompetence, but he spares Piett. Ozzel directly demonstrated that he was an idiot, he's an Imperial Officer, he should know how to deploy his forces for a surprise attack. Piett, on the other hand, was informed that the Falcon's hyperdrive had been sabotaged by whoever he assigned to the task. Hell, they succeeded at it, but couldn't take into account R2 cybering with Cloud City's computer. As bad as the Sith are, they don't kill without reason.
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Sep 21, 2014 08:49
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The Sith in the movies were a very limited slice. The EU is rich with better characterizations. Kreia is my favorite example. Extremely powerful sith lord, manipulates others, runs the show. Not cackling evil though. She went about it with subtlety. She doesn't care if you turn out Jedi or Sith. Kreia just moves you to the peaks of power to accomplish some of her goals. Through it all she just cares that you make a choice in the matter. Sure she's a character setup just to do that, but its perfect. She is just out to give you the power to choose. Thats her freedom, her Sith way.
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Sep 21, 2014 09:02
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meristem posted:Isn't 'the Sith following passion, but not always destructive passion' some EU bullshit, though? The Sith are all about social dominance and right-wing authoritarianism. So are social dominators lawful evil or neutral evil in your opinion? I'm pretty sure when actual good writers develop a character they don't use scales or numbers to determine motivations.
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Sep 21, 2014 12:04
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Krowley posted:I'm pretty sure when actual good writers develop a character they don't use scales or numbers to determine motivations. Sheikh Djibouti posted:I get that he's set up as a mustache twirling comic book style incarnation of evil. I just personally would find it more interesting if he were set up slightly differently. Similarly, you can define the Sith as authoritarian, then use that defining characteristic to explain their behavior, but the question is whether that initial definition was well chosen. My own assessment, ultimately a subjective one, is that a broader vision of their M.O., one that makes it relatable and understandable to a greater degree than it is in the PT, would make for a more compelling story. And as to social dominance, there generally is a difference between run of the mill ambition and quasi amorality of the kind we all see in large organizations and the "Go kill a bunch of childern, mwahahaha!" mode of operation we see in Palpatine. I think that's, interestingly, where the influence of the KOTOR games shows. Those games were set thousands of years before the prequels - so, presumably, at a time before the Jedi Order became ossified. But instead of making the interesting choice and showing different Jedi, they showed Jedi virtually the same as in the prequels and interesting Sith instead. And, well. ...Well, at least these games are fanfic now.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:26
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meristem posted:Obviously. The book I quoted is research, though. It's psychology, not literary theory. You can't take a theory developed by studying "the psychological makeup of authoritarian followers" and use it to give depth to Palpatine's motivations. It's basically just saying "he's the evil fascistman" in a pseudointellectual way.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:35
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M_Gargantua posted:The Sith in the movies were a very limited slice. The EU is rich with better characterizations. Kreia is my favorite example. Extremely powerful sith lord, manipulates others, runs the show. Not cackling evil though. She went about it with subtlety. She doesn't care if you turn out Jedi or Sith. Kreia just moves you to the peaks of power to accomplish some of her goals. Through it all she just cares that you make a choice in the matter. Sure she's a character setup just to do that, but its perfect. She is just out to give you the power to choose. Thats her freedom, her Sith way. EU writers really were full of themselves, weren't they?
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Sep 21, 2014 16:59
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In Clone Wars, Chancellor Palpatine is most often shown gently rationalizing all the government actions that further his goal. In effect he frames the debate in a way that gives the Senators permission to become fascists. And he instructs Dooku to use the Separatists to contrive an urgent temptation for the Republic to take advantage of that permission. When someone stridently anti-fascist like Bail Organa objects to the result, he quite genially reminds them that it was the Senate who decided it, all very democratically, and it's his duty to carry out their decision; while they may not like it, they don't usually have an answer for it. (He also, quietly, takes under his wing anyone that he thinks will be useful in his coming order, including Anakin and a young Captain Tarkin.) He's the eternal tempter - outside the borders of the Republic, he acts more openly as Darth Sidious, but within, he only draws out the existing desire to do what he wants. In that sense he can be interpreted as less a fascist than fascism itself, which can take the form of a shadowy specter or a transparent democratic process. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 17:35
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hhhat posted:Pieces like this really need to be on display somewhere. I know the prequel models do occasionally show up on display in museums. Can't really remember specifically where, but I know they have. TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Specifically a gay sterotype modeled after Truman Capote. Ziro's awesome, at least in the series proper. He's a Truman Capote impersonation, obviously. I don't know if you can call it a "gay stereotype," except inasmuch as Capote himself is seen by some as a gay stereotype. TheNakedFantastic posted:The acting is pretty bad though. Every scene with Anakin and/or Padme is completely flat, Episode 1 doesn't have a single memorable performance (at least in a positive way). Ewan McGregor turns in the best performance in the series in part 2 and 3, setting the highwater mark. The Emperor has a couple of interesting bits but he's mostly relegated to boring scenes. Most of the people involved have done way better jobs in other movies (even Anakins actor) which points really strongly to the writer (Lucas) or the director (Lucas) as being the problem. The only acting I thought was really bad was Natalie Portman's, which is weird because she's an Academy Award-winning actress now. Hayden Christensen gave a consistently great performance in the prequels--better than McGregor's by a mile, even though McGregor was good too. The scene in the garage where he confesses to the Tusken slaughter is one of the acting highlights of the series. The only reason people have a problem with Christensen's performance is because they didn't like the character he was playing. As you said, Christensen is actually a pretty good actor, and it shows in the prequels because you can tell he was giving it his all. But Portman seems like she wasn't even trying. Everyone else did fine, so I'm not sure why everyone blames Lucas. He's probably not a great director of actors, but that doesn't mean he's horrible at it.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:05
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As time passes it seems more and more that there isn't just one reason for the prequels being bad. Lucas certainly carries some of the blame with the script and flat directing but it takes more than just a director to screw up a movie.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:11
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Isolating yourself with yes men because you can't handle criticism means the blame lands at your feet. I mean, if you don't like the films, all the bad decisions involved were things that Lucas personally thought worked, and were good. He signed off on everything/anything related to Star Wars. There's no studio to blame, no deadlines, it's exactly what the man wanted.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:18
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Acting and directing go together. The hands off "faster more intense" approach worked on the original cast because they were who they were. The same direction with the prequel cast got some very uneven performances. Some of them didn't know what to do with it, some went along just fine. What's the odd thing to me us how GL could see those takes and be like "great let's use that one" when clearly they were pretty weak.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:24
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echronorian posted:Isolating yourself with yes men because you can't handle criticism means the blame lands at your feet. I mean, if you don't like the films, all the bad decisions involved were things that Lucas personally thought worked, and were good. He signed off on everything/anything related to Star Wars. There's no studio to blame, no deadlines, it's exactly what the man wanted. On the other hand, when one of the major complaints is "this wasn't the story I expected/wanted" it's hard to claim that things are isolated to Lucas. A major reason the prequels are seen as bad is itself fan expectation.
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Sep 21, 2014 19:25
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M_Gargantua posted:The Sith in the movies were a very limited slice. The EU is rich with better characterizations. Kreia is my favorite example. Extremely powerful sith lord, manipulates others, runs the show. Not cackling evil though. She went about it with subtlety. She doesn't care if you turn out Jedi or Sith. Kreia just moves you to the peaks of power to accomplish some of her goals. Through it all she just cares that you make a choice in the matter. Sure she's a character setup just to do that, but its perfect. She is just out to give you the power to choose. Thats her freedom, her Sith way. It also helps that Kreia's voice actress was phenomenal. I don't know if anyone else could have sold that role as well as Sara did.
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Sep 21, 2014 20:31
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Guess I'll post these:    
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Sep 21, 2014 21:52
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Those new colors on the X-Wings are loving baller 
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Sep 21, 2014 21:55
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Those new colors on the X-Wings are loving baller Is it sad that my immediate thought is "I can't wait for these to turn up the X-Wings miniatures game". The colors are so good though.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:00
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God that's amazing. It's classic, dirty rear end Star Wars. Going to meet Rian Johnson for a Looper Live Commentary on Tuesday. If he says anything cool, I'll post it up here.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:00
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Benedick Cuckold posted:The only acting I thought was really bad was Natalie Portman's, which is weird because she's an Academy Award-winning actress now. ... But Portman seems like she wasn't even trying. Everyone else did fine, so I'm not sure why everyone blames Lucas. He's probably not a great director of actors, but that doesn't mean he's horrible at it. Portman's actually my favorite out of the trilogy. A key theme in Phantom Menace is that the characters are all far too young. Anakin is physically capable of piloting a fighter jet in combat, and participating in death races, but he's not psychologically ready for it at all. Obiwan is forced into a teaching role before his own training was complete, Jar Jar Binks is promoted to General after a single battle he survived by accident, and Padme is the infamous 14-year-old queen of an entire planet. We're shown that, from an early age, she's decked out in borderline-immobile clothes, like a prop. Her only freedom comes from pretending to be a humble servant. However, her servant persona is the false one, and the golden idol is her true self. Padme simply is ridiculously wealthy, and you can't really disguise that. Whenever you see Padme without the kabuki makeup, that's her awkwardly playing at being a normal person. And, as things progress, the Queen persona gradually disappears - leaving only the fake. Remember that the very first image of Episode 2 is Padme being forced to watch her double - her true self - killed in front of her in a terrorist attack/assassination attempt. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 22:05
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This one was breaking my brain until I realized it was just the cutout from the bottom of this image:quote:
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Sep 21, 2014 22:08
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iSheep posted:Guess I'll post these: San Francisco Giants supremacy. 
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Sep 21, 2014 22:23
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Holy poo poo, I love that set so much.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:24
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Holy poo poo, I love that set so much. Seriously. Its a great set.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:03
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I feel like I should temper my excitement... but god drat that looks so loving cool.
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Sep 23, 2014 09:06
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Ahhh so that's what this was... My buddy took that when they went to Greenham Common on Sunday, I'm planning on doing a road trip myself (I'm about 3 hours away) but my cars due in the shop.
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Sep 23, 2014 09:33
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Its a black X-Wing.
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Sep 23, 2014 11:00
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CelticPredator posted:Its a black X-Wing. They're calling them Blex-wings on set. Probably.
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Sep 23, 2014 12:06
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I guess their back on Yavin for a bit, eh?
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Sep 23, 2014 15:39
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Or any other planet with grass.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:44
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Naboo is the grass planet, anybody knows that!
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Sep 23, 2014 15:46
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Dantooine. They're on Dantooine.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:52
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Dantooine's too remote for an effective OT reference, but we shall deal with your fanboy friends soon enough...
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Sep 23, 2014 16:01
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CelticPredator posted:Its a black X-Wing. Their squadron is called X-Clan.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:21
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Seriously why would you not paint your space fighters black? Large amounts of Imperial Remnants confirmed   http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/24/6838359/star-wars-episode-vii-stormtroopers Star Wars: Episode VII's focus on practical effects means that hundreds of actors will play extras like stormtroopers, actor Oscar Isaac told Entertainment Weekly. http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/09/23/oscar-isaac-star-wars-two-faces-of-january/ Is being in something as high-profile as Star Wars affecting the kinds of decisions you’re making about your own career going forward? I’ve never been good at those kinds of calculations. It’s more like, if I get something and I read it and I think that there is something to do here or it’s different in some way or, like, that’s a psyche I’d like to inhabit—it’s more about that. It’s impossible to know what you’re going to get, you know? That’s how I look at it. Have you had much interactions with the original trio of Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, and Mark Hamill on or off-screen? Yeah, I have. Both. They’re such funny people. Carrie is hilarious and doing such cool work. Harrison is back. He went on hiatus for a little while, but he’s 150 percent back. It’s pretty amazing to see him bounce back. He looks incredible. Everyone’s having a really good time. J.J. sets that tone. There’s a lot of enthusiasm and it’s being done with a lot of heart. There’s nothing cynical about the way we’re doing this. Even in the way he’s shooting it—he’s shooting on film and actually building the sets, so you’ve got hundreds of Stormtroopers or whatever, and hundreds of extras and all the ships. You actually see it. It’s all real. Everyone can interact with the world. What do you think of this culture of leaked photos from set and this insatiable hunger for specific details about this new installment? People want to know all those special things and when those iconic moments are going to happen, but if all that gets revealed beforehand I feel like it robs people of that moment when they’re sitting there watching it for the first time. The original Star Wars, of which you’ve said you’re a big fan, are filled with cheesy lines and dialogue which the actors have not shied away from criticizing over the years. How does this compare? Yeah. [Laughs] I’m constantly looking for a cheesy line to say to harken back to the old ones. No, what they’re trying to do and what’s really great is J.J.’s been loosening it up a little bit and trying to make it alive and energized. It’s not formal. They’re messy, energized people. We’ve all intentionally tried to do that. Just make it a little more fiery and messy. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 08:10
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Boo, I want evil New Republic, not Empire remnants.
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Sep 25, 2014 08:18
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Well unless "like stormtroopers" means they will be like stormtroopers but not exactly stormtroopers...
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Sep 25, 2014 08:57
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We already saw stormtrooper helmets a month ago, this isn't anything new.
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Sep 25, 2014 09:17
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Cardboard Box A posted:Large amounts of Imperial Remnants confirmed edit: Oh, they're from the Essential Atlas published back in 2009? So probably not cannon anymore. I know the quotes are, but I thought those images were released or leaked or something from an upcoming book, and showed what the Empire's strength was for the new movies. That's old stuff, though. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 15:22
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The Essential Atlas.
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Sep 25, 2014 15:28
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thrawn527 posted:
This is the first time I've considered that since the entire EU is no longer canon, then the vast majority of planets we "know" of may not even exist anymore. It's not just that those maps are wrong now, it's that the maps are essentially blank again until they get filled back in.
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