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Broken Loose posted:Then again you're also saying that Crying Love Interest is a competent pilot when all she did was lose to first timers in unarmed grunts and then cry about it. I mean, if "good pilot" is the narrative we're going with now, seeing as the excuse last page was that nothing indicated her being a good pilot. Well she was one beam saber swipe away from winning her debut fight and then the G-Self locked up, so the narrative obviously isn't trying to support the idea that she's a bad pilot.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:16
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I will however concede that the issue of the bunny ears blocking the camera turned out to be nothing, because as demonstrated in episode 2 Bell is perfectly capable of shooting down enemy commanders with no monitors showing the outside and a shield blocking the view through his open hatch.Pureauthor posted:Well she was one beam saber swipe away from winning her debut fight and then the G-Self locked up, so the narrative obviously isn't trying to support the idea that she's a bad pilot. I mean that's fine, that's totally fair, because she did show up in a top secret prototype leading a squadron of dudes. It just makes her reaction to losing more unacceptable.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:16
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Broken Loose posted:I mean that's fine, that's totally fair, because she did show up in a top secret prototype leading a squadron of dudes. It just makes her reaction to losing more unacceptable. Why is it unacceptable? She (and her self-named super suit) were captured by the enemy because her suit malfunctioned and according to later dialogue she was going to be executed. She was upset in private, calmed down, and faced her captors calmly without fear. That is frankly one of the more "real person" anyone in the show did.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:19
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My take on all the stuff that makes you raise an eyebrow or utter  is that this was to move things forward rapidly and cut filler, at the cost of raised eyebrows and . If it doesn't settle down then Tomino had a longer series in mind but had to cut it short.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:22
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ImpAtom posted:Why is it unacceptable? She was captured by the enemy because her suit malfunctioned and according to later dialogue she was going to be executed. She's effectively an enemy commander piloting an ace suit. The concept that a commander would break down into tears because she was taken prisoner comes off as very "women, right?  " as does the concept that she would crumple to the floor in tearful agony at another soldier's death in battle.If you switched the genders, everybody in this thread would be like, "This dude has loving issues" instead of brushing it off. edit: I want to restate for the record that these tidbits wouldn't stand out so much if the entire female cast of this show weren't shining examples of awfulness. Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 14:24
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MrLonghair posted:My take on all the stuff that makes you raise an eyebrow or utter I don't really think they cut filler precisely. If anything I'd say the opposite. They focused on filler and casual worldbuilding but de-emphasized things which would traditionally be called important which lead to a pace which is both breakneck and oddly meandering. That may be what Tomino means by it not being for Gundam fans since he seems actively uninterested in approaching the story that way. (In both good ways and bad.) Broken Loose posted:She's effectively an enemy commander piloting an ace suit. The concept that a commander would break down into tears because she was taken prisoner comes off as very "women, right? Here is the most popular Gundam protagonist in the last few decades. He cries every other episode.  Here is his rival, the ace pilot who is commander of his own unit.  You can argue all you want that the show is bad but "only women break down and cry" isn't something even casual Gundam fans would agree with. Edit: Look at this womanly person, crying over the death of a soldier. I mean he's a commander and his ace pilot is right next to him and both of them are crying after one of their allies dies in battle. How loving unbelievable is that. 
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 14:25
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Something I've taken from watching the second episode is that the Capital Guard/Army seem to have a Patlabor thing going on in that their mechs aren't military models, just repurposed civilian models with armor. Kinda makes sense why three Grimoires just stomped all over them. Also holy poo poo, that beam whip the Grimoire guns have  .Broken Loose posted:edit: I want to restate for the record that these tidbits wouldn't stand out so much if the entire female cast of this show weren't shining examples of awfulness. You mean like the female classmate that matched Bellri's jumps perfectly across the boats and showed no signs of incompetency? Or the main character's mother in a position of leadership and portrayed as nothing but calm and professional?
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Oct 3, 2014 14:32
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ImpAtom posted:Here is the most popular Gundam protagonist in the last few decades. He cries every other episode. Okay, that's perfectly fine, but Jesus Yamato is a loving laughingstock on these forums and almost the prototypical example of how not to make a character. If you're going to compare Aida to Kira Yamato, you're doing so at the risk of saying, "This character ruins entire series." Also, Kira did the most of his crying while he was still completely new to piloting but Aida's supposed to be a commander in an ace suit. These are valid arguments (she's actually a good pilot in bad circumstances, she's like Kira, etc.) but they all come with terrible connotations if you follow their train of logic. edit: Bright crying when Matilda died is great for comparing to episode 2, but not episode 1.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Something I've taken from watching the second episode is that the Capital Guard/Army seem to have a Patlabor thing going on in that their mechs aren't military models, just repurposed civilian models with armor. Kinda makes sense why three Grimoires just stomped all over them. Also holy poo poo, that beam whip the Grimoire guns have That part's funny because she literally went 'GIRL POWER' before doing it.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:34
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Broken Loose posted:Okay, that's perfectly fine, but Jesus Yamato is a loving laughingstock on these forums and almost the prototypical example of how not to make a character. If you're going to compare Aida to Kira Yamato, you're doing so at the risk of saying, "This character ruins entire series." Also, Kira did the most of his crying while he was still completely new to piloting but Aida's supposed to be a commander in an ace suit. Again, pictured: Commander of a ship (and a trained officer, if one put in bad situations) and an ace pilot crying over the death of an enlisted soldier. Broken Loose posted:edit: Bright crying when Matilda died is great for comparing to episode 2, but not episode 1. So? You've yet to actually justify why episode 1 is bad unless nobody is allowed to express any emotion at all.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:34
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Yeah, I totally remember Bright breaking into hysterics because he lost a fight.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:35
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Sharkopath posted:That part's funny because she literally went 'GIRL POWER' before doing it. Oh very true, but I was half-expecting them to make it a joke and have her end up in the drink rather than jump it perfectly.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:35
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Broken Loose posted:Yeah, I totally remember Bright breaking into hysterics because he lost a fight. Bright, pictured there, is hysterics. He is slumped on the ground and crying. Aida has tears in her eyes for like 10 seconds before she wiped them away and was promptly fine. I don't think you know what the word "hysterics" means. It does not mean "you can calm yourself down in an instant."
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Oct 3, 2014 14:37
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I cannot believe this is still going on.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:40
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If you earnestly claim that Bright Noa crying at Matilda's death is equivalent to Aila being like "I wish I didn't get like this!" while bawling at being subdued, then you're trolling.ImpAtom posted:So? You've yet to actually justify why episode 1 is bad unless nobody is allowed to express any emotion at all. You're being purposely obtuse at this point, so this is my last post on the topic. I'm going to be crystal loving clear. Enemy Commander loses a fight and is taken prisoner, then breaks down crying in the cockpit. If this character were male, it wouldn't be considered normal. Since the character is female, I'm apparently considered a weirdo for saying it's hosed up in a specific way. The rest of the episode is also hosed up in that same way. The entire remaining female cast is literal cheerleaders (who keep disobeying authority and being unhelpful) and a shrieking vegetable. The vegetable was the only other female pilot, and she ALSO was subdued by faceless grunts and then broke down crying afterward for one reason or another (the context to which is not nearly as important as the consistency). If even HALF of these things existed in a vacuum, then it wouldn't look so bad. However, as a whole, it's DC Comics level of hosed up writing. There is so much of this stuff that it has to either be intentional or a ridiculously high level of incompetence*. You cannot ignore each tree piecemeal and then claim the forest does not exist. *In fairness, given the anti-exposition cut of episode 2, A Ridiculously High Level of Incompetence is not off the table.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:53
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ImpAtom is traditionally incredibly critical about the portrayal of female Gundam characters to the point where he and I had like a five page long argument about Build Fighters females at the beginning of that show. Calling him on being "deliberately obtuse" when you're repeatedly ignoring his points in favor of "B-BUT A GIRL CRIED!" and handwaving his counterexamples of male characters crying is pretty loving dumb. It is really weird how you're using words like "bawling" and "hysterics" to describe a character squeezing out a few tears of frustration about her suit malfunctioning and getting captured by junkheaps before sucking it up and telling her captors to gently caress off to their faces less than five minutes after it happens. I wouldn't think it was weird or inappropriate if a male character did that, either. Blockhouse posted:I cannot believe this is still going on. Broken Loose is the hero who managed to face all comers in a no-holds barred bunny ears argument for like four pages without ever giving an inch. Do not underestimate Broken Loose's dedication to a position. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 14:58
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I think my favourite part of both episodes is the ED. Everyone's just so happy and goofy. And the song is pure 80s cheese.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:59
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Kanos posted:Broken Loose is the hero who managed to face all comers in a no-holds barred bunny ears argument for like four pages without ever giving an inch. I don't know what's funnier: How I was proven wrong about the camera issue (because Bell's psychic), or how everybody else was proven wrong that the bunny ears were still a bad idea (because that's how the G-Self got nabbed).
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Oct 3, 2014 15:03
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ImpAtom posted:
It means a woman is crying  Alt. Joke: it means someone's crying in a show that I'm desperately trying to justify my pages of sad brain posting for.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:04
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Broken Loose posted:I don't know what's funnier: How I was proven wrong about the camera issue (because Bell's psychic), or how everybody else was proven wrong that the bunny ears were still a bad idea (because that's how the G-Self got nabbed). I'm just gonna quote the point that you keep willfully ignoring; Pureauthor posted:Well she was one beam saber swipe away from winning her debut fight and then the G-Self locked up, so the narrative obviously isn't trying to support the idea that she's a bad pilot.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:05
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Broken Loose posted:I don't know what's funnier: How I was proven wrong about the camera issue (because Bell's psychic), or how everybody else was proven wrong that the bunny ears were still a bad idea (because that's how the G-Self got nabbed). Show us on the doll where the bunny ears touched you.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:06
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Pureauthor posted:I think my favourite part of both episodes is the ED. I like a lot of the background character animation, like Monday messing around with the pompoms while they talk about spacepope, and that girl who ran into the room too fast and bumped her head against the wall. It's kinda crazy but the cast has so many women in it compared to earlier gundam, I hope when the obvious big plot change happens they'll be more prominent, especially since tomino mentioned already he wanted to make it a feminist show. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the early episodes.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:07
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Broken Loose posted:I don't know what's funnier: How I was proven wrong about the camera issue (because Bell's psychic), or how everybody else was proven wrong that the bunny ears were still a bad idea (because that's how the G-Self got nabbed). I'm going to try this one last time before I just give up, because you've ignored it every single time: The G-Self did not get 'nabbed' by its ear. Bell grabbed it and the machine malfunctioned and performed a different action than Aida told it to (likely because she was going to shiv Bell or use the head vulcans to blow him away.) Afterwards she accelerated so hard he let go. At no point did the ear have any impact at all on what happened except being the thing that got grabbed, which could as easily have been the head itself. It contributed literally nothing to her capture or anything more that a moment's mild inconvenience. If the G-Self had not malfunctioned it would not even have been that.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm just gonna quote the point that you keep willfully ignoring; She was also deliberately handicapping herself in a huge number of ways that allowed Bellri to even get close enough to grab her in the first place(not using her beam rifle to loving kill everyone, not cutting the cables to force the Guard to poo poo themselves, not holding the elevator pod hostage).
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Oct 3, 2014 15:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm just gonna quote the point that you keep willfully ignoring; The G-Self malfunctioned after Bell had been hanging onto the ear for half a minute, while it was hilariously trying to punch the grunt off.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:09
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Broken Loose posted:The G-Self malfunctioned after Bell had been hanging onto the ear for half a minute, while it was hilariously trying to punch the grunt off. Dude, the trying-to-punch-it-off was the malfuction. Aida literally says "that's the wrong action" right afterwards.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:11
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ImpAtom posted:Dude, the trying-to-punch-it-off was the malfuction. Aida literally says "that's the wrong action" right afterwards. No, it stops punching, pulls its arm back, and then starts randomly twitching. That's when she says it's the wrong response.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:12
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Sharkopath posted:I like a lot of the background character animation, like Monday messing around with the pompoms while they talk about spacepope, and that girl who ran into the room too fast and bumped her head against the wall. Yeah while some of the animation has been rough at spots, it really makes up for it with all the nice little details like that. It really goes well with how colorful the show is.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:16
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I just wish this loving sidetrack was brought up by anyone else. Literally anyone else but the "HURF DURF GUNDAM EARS" guy. Why was she crying? Maybe you missed it, man, but even she seemed a little confused about it. It could be space psychic shenanigans! Oh wait, it most definitely IS space psychic shenanigans since the suit itself betrayed its pilot. Frankly, until main character dude complains about how women should be mothers instead of front line soldiers, or until he channels all the spirits of the dead women into his beam saber, it's premature to say this female character and series is misogynist and bad. Or even better? If it has you worked up moreso than the Gundam ears, just stop watching. Cause holy poo poo, you cannot handle a series two episodes in. Sometimes you need to throw in the towel.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:17
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Pureauthor posted:I think my favourite part of both episodes is the ED. "How should we animate the credits?" "Line dancing?" "OK!" Can't wait to learn more about  NOT CHAR Never change Gundam, never change
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Oct 3, 2014 15:17
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karlor posted:Can't wait to learn more about I'm hoping Not Char is completely calm and serious, just to make the end credits all the more amazing .
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Oct 3, 2014 15:20
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Srice posted:Yeah while some of the animation has been rough at spots, it really makes up for it with all the nice little details like that. It really goes well with how colorful the show is. 
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Oct 3, 2014 15:22
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm hoping Isn't NotChar just Luin?
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Oct 3, 2014 15:27
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Broken Loose posted:No, it stops punching, pulls its arm back, and then starts randomly twitching. That's when she says it's the wrong response. As we all know, the Gundam's most sensitive nerve endings are in the V fin, in this case, the bunny ears. Word of advice, don't touch the Turn-A's mustache, it's what sets off the Moonlight Butterfly.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:30
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TARDISman posted:As we all know, the Gundam's most sensitive nerve endings are in the V fin, in this case, the bunny ears. Word of advice, don't touch the Turn-A's mustache, it's what sets off the Moonlight Butterfly. That's what caused the Black History, you know. Some tech polished the mustache counter-clockwise instead of clockwise and cooked off most of mankind.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:32
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ImpAtom posted:Isn't NotChar just Luin? Gundam characters can only recognize one another through eye contact, so nobody will suspect it.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:36
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karlor posted:Gundam characters can only recognize one another through eye contact, so nobody will suspect it. People keep saying Clark Kent is Superman, but I just don't see it. Clark wears glasses, Superman does not. What's so hard about this to understand? 
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Oct 3, 2014 15:39
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uhhhh hey baby wanna see my under nut uhhh
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Oct 3, 2014 16:33
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ninjewtsu posted:So is there a way to watch this in the US yet? Echoing this; is there any way to watch this in the US that doesn't involve  or some other arcane internet shenanigans that I'm clueless about? As much as I'm enjoying watching Broken Loose go into hysterics about women crying and MS design decisions, I'd actually kind of like to see the episodes myself so I can have some context for this entire derail.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:43
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W.T. Fits posted:Echoing this; is there any way to watch this in the US that doesn't involve Since the UK and Australia already have streams and there's no NA option, people are guessing that they're saving it for an announcement at New York Comic Con next week because hey isn't it *more* exciting to hear news about a stream at a press release a few weeks after the show starts instead of reading a boring announcement online before the show even airs!? (Of course not but some anime companies genuinely think that!) So basically, that's the answer people in the US are giving to this 
Srice fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 17:01
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