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I better not be the only one of you nerds looking forward to some righteous monster crushing all day Tuesday when Dungeonmans is formally released!!! Also, someone teach me how to Sil. I can normally beat a roguelike after a few weeks, 2 months tops, but Sil just repeatedly beats my face in.
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Dec 7, 2014 19:15
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Lord Windy posted:More seriously, I think I might just do my own '7DRL' starting soon. I'm on Holidays so it could be fun. You never know where that rabbit hole will take you...
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Dec 7, 2014 22:53
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Happylisk posted:Also, someone teach me how to Sil. I can normally beat a roguelike after a few weeks, 2 months tops, but Sil just repeatedly beats my face in.
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Dec 8, 2014 00:17
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Happylisk posted:I better not be the only one of you nerds looking forward to some righteous monster crushing all day Tuesday when Dungeonmans is formally released!!! After I finish Sproggiwood, Dungeonmans is next in my crosshairs. Other than people in this thread saying that it's good I dunno much about it, so I'm anticipating lots of pleasant surprises.
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Dec 8, 2014 00:18
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Happylisk posted:I better not be the only one of you nerds looking forward to some righteous monster crushing all day Tuesday when Dungeonmans is formally released!!!
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Dec 8, 2014 00:24
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Happylisk posted:Also, someone teach me how to Sil. I can normally beat a roguelike after a few weeks, 2 months tops, but Sil just repeatedly beats my face in. I can semi-consistantly get to the final floor, if not necessarily get past it. How deep do you normally get, what typically kills you?
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Dec 8, 2014 03:28
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Serephina posted:I can semi-consistantly get to the final floor, if not necessarily get past it. How deep do you normally get, what typically kills you? I typically splat 6-8 floors in. Undead and invisible stuff gives me a lot of trouble. I've been running melee/evasion elves.
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Dec 8, 2014 03:34
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Bogart posted:> You see before you ZIGGY STARDUST. > ZIGGY STARDUST plays guitar.
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Dec 8, 2014 04:24
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Happylisk posted:I typically splat 6-8 floors in. Undead and invisible stuff gives me a lot of trouble. I've been running melee/evasion elves. So about 300-400ft. That's where things start to get fun  debo is a much better player than I, and he wrote a newbie guide optimised for the early game: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpost.php?p=75832&postcount=3 The artistry/smithing start is good for getting a lot of evasion/protection for a bargain xp investment. Might be a bit too early for what's killing you though. Builing on what debo posted: skip 250'. It's the natural depth of orc archers and violet molds, and it's just not worth the grief. At around 600' shadow monsters are EVERYWHERE and will eat your face (this might be what's killing you, alongside Sulrakos) Consider having a way to easily get 5+ light on demand. Good ways include song of the trees for +2, or the super secret tech of "floor lanterns" where you drop a lesser jewel or feanorn latern and it illuminates from the floor, and stacks. Sulrakos are invisible, but tough and not hard hitting. One of; Helm of see invis, the 'see invis' perception skill, or an arse-ton of raw perception, are flat-out required to not get cornered by them. Don't go shopping for skills early (unless smithing, and even then don't overcommit). Spending 500 here for Power and 1000 there for follow-though seems fun, but Sil has a lot of awesome drops that can require you to alter your playstyle to use. I personally don't commit to Power v Finesse v whatever until around 500+ feet where I absolutely need to. Speaking thereof, early game meele/evasion and fighting 1v1 is king, but at midgame you need a 'trick', which might be as simple as Flanking or as complicated as polearm mastery + knockback + Focused Attack, to give you an edge as the numbers on the monsters go up faster than yours. [Dedicated builds can reverse this by 900' tho] As debo said, you just need to die a lot see see what nasty poo poo Sil throws at you midgame :P That help? Edit: oh, Undead. Most wights and stuff are guarding items and don't like to chase, and they're the ones with nasty draining attacks. But Shadows in particular are both invis AND have a black tile, making them easy to not notice even when 'detected'. They don't actually generate darkness, but I can't recall if having excessive light provides elemental resistance to their attack... Serephina fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 05:07
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http://www.reverbnation.com/soundwizard/song/22407260-khelavasters-prophecy?1336410755 ADOM has a jaunty new theme song, with vocals!
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Dec 8, 2014 05:32
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Serephina posted:So about 300-400ft. That's where things start to get fun And: I don't care how lesser it is, or how good you're doing, a lesser balrog is still a balrog :C
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Dec 8, 2014 07:27
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I wouldn't suggest doing a heavy smithing start since the spawn rate of forges was heavily nerfed a few versions back. It leaves your character seriously under developed in the early to mid-game, and is still somewhat luck dependant in the late game, all for getting 1 or 2 extra bonus points from the guaranteed forge. Definitely not worth it any more. If you're having trouble early on I'd suggest you're probably not being cautious enough. Maybe try a stealth heavy start a few times so you can get the hang of avoiding things you shouldn't be fighting. Other than that, don't forget to pump your combat stat (melee or archery, and evasion if you're not going heavy armour). A point or two extra makes a big difference. I'd steer clear of most skills unless you have a particular synergistic build in mind, contrary to what that other guy said - you really want 20+ points in your combat skill by the time you're hitting the lower floors or you'll get overwhelmed easily. Having said that, if invisible stuff is giving you grief, pick up keen sight and put a few points in perception - that's a big boost for minimal investment and will help you spot traps/pick locks.
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Dec 8, 2014 08:05
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Cardiovorax posted:People like you make me feel embarrassed about myself. I have never beaten any roguelike, ten years of playing them regardless. Conversely, posts like this make me relieved that I'm not the only one. High-five, roguelike failure buddy
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Dec 8, 2014 10:44
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i beat crawl  once 
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Dec 8, 2014 12:42
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I beat ADOM. Once, years ago, after playing it for six months solid. Two of my friends observed my victory. One was semi-impressed.
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Dec 8, 2014 13:05
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Tollymain posted:i beat crawl i beat crawl in like 0.3 or so when DEFEs could easily go mad with power and MD was the fighter tankyman du jour and never again managed it
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Dec 8, 2014 13:06
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Tollymain posted:i beat crawl I also beat Crawl once. It took me 6 years.
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Dec 8, 2014 13:11
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I beat Crawl twice, one with 3 and one with all 15. Both were exploiting how ridiculously broken Ashenzari was as soon as he went in in trunk, and were some-colour-of-dragon armour-wearing perma-necromutationed demonspawn whose primary means of dealing with problems was casting shatter until there was enough room to cast tornado.
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Dec 8, 2014 13:22
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TOOT BOOT posted:http://www.reverbnation.com/soundwizard/song/22407260-khelavasters-prophecy?1336410755 campy as gently caress
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Dec 8, 2014 15:32
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I've beaten it a handful of times. Got a few 15-runers and one tournament win (with an ogre, no less!), but my favourite Crawl Achievement will always be my gigazig win - clearing two ziggurats, entering a third with 15 runes and the Orb of Zot without hitting my stash to gear up first, and completing the zig during the orbrun before finally ascending. That was a loving mess even with an omniresistant necromutated quad-level-9-nuke-slinging Sif Muna channelspammer. I had veterans, devs, and streakers all spectating, giving advice and occasionally  -ing over the utterly bullshit success I had in cheating death. It was hilarious.I actually don't really play Crawl much anymore, because after that madness, everything seems kinda blah. I know I'm unlikely to top that particular triumph of glorious stupidity, so I just get bored and disinterested halfway through the early grind. RIP Shoydo.
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Dec 8, 2014 15:44
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Never beaten any roguelike, I simply don't have the dedication or drive to beat most of 'em.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:58
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I've beaten One Way Heroics on normal (when I got lucky and one of the worlds gave me Dosey), d-does that mean anything?
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Dec 8, 2014 18:13
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You're in the club of winners, lord your success over others in the most challenging of genres! Here's your , use it well.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:15
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TOME on normal with one of the top tier classes is not difficult, a week or two should be all anybody needs to clear normal/adventure with an alchemist or berserker (for example).
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Dec 8, 2014 19:27
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Once you can beat crawl once, you can probably beat it again. I went from not really being able to get far in crawl to getting runes consistently, to reaching Zot consistently, to reaching the post-game consistently. I was never able to figure out how to consistently beat the post-game levels though, and banged my head against ziggurats many times. Furthest I got was I think the second last level of the zig. I've also beaten Spelunky, and Tome (albeit with the lives mode, never on true hardcore), but I think that's it for bigger games. I missed the whole what is a roguelike chat but I was thinking about the idea of procedurally generated content, and how the roguelikes I most enjoy don't exclusively use procedural content to generate the playfield. DCSS's prefab sections make for much more interesting levels, I think. The key is having a ton of content to draw from so you don't get repetition. One of my favorite non-roguelikes is Doom, and this line of thought led me to try the following: treat Doom as a roguelike, not by using random level generation (Oblige) or the Doom RL mods, but by just drawing on the innate nature of doom (pistol starting) and the massive amount of user generated content that I've never touched. You can either treat every Doom level as a self contained RL and just pistol start the maps. If you reach the exit you win. If you don't, you lose. Move on to the next map. When you're done the wad, move on the the next wad. Or you can treat wads / map sequences as RLs, allowing for continuous play and greater progression... moving on at the end of a map sequence or a wad, but after the first death. This gives you randomness, permadeath, item (if not character) progression, complex item / environment interaction, and emergent gameplay. Even if you just restricted yourself to the award winning wads, you'd have more content than any of these FPS roguelites out there. That's actually my biggest issue with some of these games. They aren't as fun as just playing Doom, and the normal advantage RLs often offer over traditional examples of the genre, randomness, isn't true for this particular genre because the mass of user generated content allows for greater variety than computer generated levels do.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:30
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I guess I'm just too impatient for it. Roguelikes are at their best to me when you have just started a new character, the levels are rolling in fast and all options are open to you. The farther you progress the slower and further development, which makes me start to get bored and take risks that I shouldn't. I've lost more than one 5+ rune Crawl character right during the final escape run because I just wanted to finally be done.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:34
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Cardiovorax posted:I guess I'm just too impatient for it. Roguelikes are at their best to me when you have just started a new character, the levels are rolling in fast and all options are open to you. The farther you progress the slower and further development, which makes me start to get bored and take risks that I shouldn't. I've lost more than one 5+ rune Crawl character right during the final escape run because I just wanted to finally be done. Yeah, I've quit post game runs early (by exiting) because of boredom.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:36
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Cardiovorax posted:People like you make me feel embarrassed about myself. I have never beaten any roguelike, ten years of playing them regardless. It took me years and years to get my first roguelike wins (Nethack and ADOM). After that it got a lot easier. Mental block + easier games + learning to play them better. Years later, I beat Crawl within a week or so of first picking it up. If there's anything universally lovely I can say about roguelikes it's that cowardice is almost always the safest way to play, and that can get both boring and tiring. It's hard to maintain the mental focus to treat every encounter like a total wimp and flee at the first sight of danger. You tend to cross a threshold at some point in most roguelikes where your power becomes such that you can plow through most encounters, but that point varies wildly from game to game, and some of them you never reach it.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:45
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I numbered my characters in Crawl, and my first win was attempt #421 with a Merfolk Crusader back on .3 or .4. I remember I was on the phone with my friend giving him a minute by minute account of my ascension. I fist-pumped so hard that night. Later, his first win was a Spriggan Assassin and I drove over to his house to watch that unfold. Since then, I can more or less consistently 15-rune win with a Minotaur Fighter doing the whole Okie > TSO route (I like to call it Holy Cow build) but I'm too impatient to try other builds. This applies to other roguelikes too, I'm averse to having to learn an entirely new way of playing the game, because I primarily get a kick of exploiting and finding loopholes in the ruleset. Learning a new roguelike is hard.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:47
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Bouchacha posted:Learning a new roguelike is hard. gently caress Brogue 
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Dec 8, 2014 19:51
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My biggest problem with conventional roguelikes is that I lack the patience to play them properly. I know what I need to do, and how I need to do it, but at some point the tweaks and strategies and estimates I have to make to survive begin to feel like I'm playing an infinite city sprawl civ game. The optimal strategy is mind-numbingly tedious. Crawl suffers from a bad case of this, for example. In the end, I either have to win by spending hours not having fun (hell no), or I spend an hour or two having fun only to get frustrated because of a loss I technically could have prevented by being tediously conservative (gently caress that). Fast paced roguelikes like FTL and the ones that allow some sense of legacy between (failed) characters are fine, though.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:36
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my dad posted:My biggest problem with conventional roguelikes is that I lack the patience to play them properly. I know what I need to do, and how I need to do it, but at some point the tweaks and strategies and estimates I have to make to survive begin to feel like I'm playing an infinite city sprawl civ game. The optimal strategy is mind-numbingly tedious. Crawl suffers from a bad case of this, for example. In the end, I either have to win by spending hours not having fun (hell no), or I spend an hour or two having fun only to get frustrated because of a loss I technically could have prevented by being tediously conservative (gently caress that). Dungeonmans!
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Dec 8, 2014 20:55
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my dad posted:My biggest problem with conventional roguelikes is that I lack the patience to play them properly. I lose so many games because I'm hammering on the left or right key and don't notice an enemy. DoomRL especially, where a couple of moves too many can get your rear end killed instantly by a mancubus.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:58
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Stelas posted:I lose so many games because I'm hammering on the left or right key and don't notice an enemy. DoomRL especially, where a couple of moves too many can get your rear end killed instantly by a mancubus. I'm waiting for a game that has some built in sanity stops to prevent tedium from killing you. Autoexplore is one such tool, there are quite a few others.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:08
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everyone should play and win doomrl and also do an angel of berserk run like i did
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Dec 8, 2014 21:10
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I'm going to revive definition chat because I hate this thread and its posters 'Roguelike' isn't actually a coherent genre of video game. You can't make a 'pure' roguelike, all roguelikes are crossovers with other genres, dungeon crawl, adventure, platformer, etc. It's a category of games that have some common secondary design elements, it's not actually a genre on its own
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Dec 8, 2014 21:41
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icantfindaname posted:I'm going to revive definition chat because I hate this thread and its posters It was pretty solidly a subgenre of dungeon crawlers until it became a buzzword on Steam.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:43
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Well nethack is an unholy amalgamation of adventure game and dungeon crawl parts, and that's the game that started the buzzword to begin with
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Dec 8, 2014 21:45
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dis astranagant posted:It was pretty solidly a subgenre of dungeon crawlers until it became a buzzword
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Dec 8, 2014 21:48
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I've resigned myself to doing nothing but gimmick runs in Crawl; Eliphas the Chaos Space Marine (Demonspawn Chaos Knight), The Librarian (Mummy whos job is to find at least 1 of every game item and store it in the Temple), etc.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:18
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