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Reiz posted:Not only can you get paid to do things like that, if you live in southern california I know a guy who might have an opening for you. But, pretty much no matter where you are, if you can get an interview with a technical person and give answers like you did here, you'll probably have the job no problem. I live in the UK so it'd be a bit of a trip. I hear it doesn't rain in California, what an odd concept. I'll see about getting those A+ certs, or something similar to maybe help me get past the screening process, or at least just apply to some places while I'm working currently, as I'm not under any great time pressure at the moment having a job already. Does having an interest in tech stuff help do you think? Outside of work competence I mean. I assume that, given the nature of IT, some of the people in the interview would probably be people I'd be working with or under, so personality and interests might be important to them if they're going to be seeing a bit of me? Just wondering if my game design background would be a thing worth bringing up, given that it technically is something I've been doing longer than my actual job and accounts for a lot of my education.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:26
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OwlFancier posted:So googling the answer is an acceptable method then? Because that is sort of how I approach any problem usually, read the error message and type it into google to get something more descriptive than the error message, ideally find that someone else had the same problem and posted the solution. You've expressed some incredulity that this kind of stuff is a real job that you get paid relatively decent money for. I'm going to try and shed some light on this for you, because people like us (techs, nerds, smart people) tend to get down on themselves for not knowing enough and don't appreciate that they have real skills. The TLDR is that we have internalized a lot of little things that allow us to work with computers on a level that most people never get to. The first major point is that we are computer literate, while the vast, vast majority of people are not. Computer literacy as I define it is basically the ability to figure out how to do something on a computer that you haven't done before. If we want to do something new, we use our heads, we think critically, we categorize, we rule things out. Perhaps you've seen this: http://xkcd.com/627/, which while simplified for the sake of humor, is a pretty damned good summary. Most people never get there, they learn specific procedures by rote memorization; Creating a Word document. Printing a Word document. Logging off for the day. Checking their email. Running this month's payroll. If they want to learn anything new, they must have an illustrated step-by-step tutorial for the exact version of the thing they're using and God help them if a single screenshot is out of date. The instant anything goes wrong, these people go into vapor lock. If they follow their normal steps (or if they think they did) and they don't get the same result they always get, they don't know what to do except try the same thing again. If there's an error message that pops up, they panic. Even if the message tells them exactly what to do, they are lost because it's something they've never done before. Googling the error message won't help them because their minds are not prepared to process the information (I'm generalizing here, many people have some ability to look beyond what they know, but a shockingly large number just do not). This segues nicely into my next point... Googling it is a skill. It's hard for us to think of it that way because we do it all the time and we don't think about it. Googling the problem or error message sounds simple, but that's not the only thing you're doing. When you google an error message or problem, in your head you are taking dozens of little details about the problem space and sorting and prioritizing them. What's the program where the error is occurring? What is the user trying to do exactly? What operating system are they running? Can the problem be hardware related? If yes, what hardware? What model of that specific hardware are they using? Has this error happened before? Does it happen at regular intervals and/or specific times? What antivirus are they running? What web browser are they using? You gather some of that information (depending on the kind of problem you're looking at) and you construct a google query. You're able to do that extremely rapidly because you have used computers a lot, and you're familiar with what information is likely to be relevant. It's very nearly automatic. There's a world of difference between "My computer is slow" and "Google Chrome 38 youtube video stutter and mouse latency" as search terms. Terrible example, but my point is that you have the ability to analyze, think critically, and quickly process and sort information about these devices and their problems, which are real skills that most people never acquire. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 02:29
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OwlFancier posted:I'll see about getting those A+ certs, or something similar to maybe help me get past the screening process, or at least just apply to some places while I'm working currently, as I'm not under any great time pressure at the moment having a job already. quote:Does having an interest in tech stuff help do you think? Outside of work competence I mean. I assume that, given the nature of IT, some of the people in the interview would probably be people I'd be working with or under, so personality and interests might be important to them if they're going to be seeing a bit of me? On an interview, maybe. But it will definitely help you succeed if you want to make it a career. My personal advice if you want to move up is to start looking into virtualization. If you can learn the basics, it'll give you the tools you need to learn any IT skill you want. If you want to become a DBA, you can create your own SQL server, if you want to learn about networks you can use GNS3 to make a network, if you want to be a sysadmin, you can make some domain controllers.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:34
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And please pick up a little programming. Powershell for windows. Bash or Python for Linux. You can dive in perl if you want but it's terrible and needs to die.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:43
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Powershell is cool stuff: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3286440 Virtualization is rad: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3467608 Home Labs are Useful: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3561669 Also, if you notice 100 new posts in this thread overnight, just skip to the last page, you didn't miss anything.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:46
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Powershell is cool stuff: He toxxed himself. We never have to see him again. Please remember to quote that post during mental breakdown 37
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Dec 10, 2014 02:47
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Che Delilas posted:You've expressed some incredulity that this kind of stuff is a real job that you get paid relatively decent money for. I'm going to try and shed some light on this for you, because people like us (techs, nerds, smart people) tend to get down on themselves for not knowing enough and don't appreciate that they have real skills. The TLDR is that we have internalized a lot of little things that allow us to work with computers on a level that most people never get to. You're describing pretty accurately a lot of the approaches to computers people around me tend to have, even my stepdad who's only like, 11 years older than me and has been using computers probably longer than I have, at least for his adult life, still gets a bit lost when dealing with anything 'technical', even though he uses them for infinitely more important things that I do in the course of managing multi-million pound contracts for his company. It's just strange to me, the computer tells you what you need to know and what your options are in almost all cases, if you sit and read the screen and think about what it means, you will probably get a fairly good understanding of what is happening. But still people will read out things on the screen like it's written in Greek, stopping after every word, and very obviously not actually reading the sentence. It's hard to get my head around is all, computers are accurate and brilliantly precise but not very clever, so you treat them as you would a person with those qualities, patiently and using your problem solving ability to help piece together what they're trying to say to you, because it's probably completely correct. It's like because something is written on a screen it's strange and terrifying for some reason. Even if it's in a nice courier font. jaegerx posted:And please pick up a little programming. Powershell for windows. Looks like an extremely badass replacement for batch files, and apparently some other things too. That sounds incredibly useful. Dr. Arbitrary posted:A+ Is entry level, however, there are followup certs that recommend the previous certifications. You might be able to get Network+ or Security+ with less studying and pass them off as superseding A+. It'd be kind of like taking a bunch of graduate level classes and being awarded a Masters without getting your Bachelors. If you see jobs asking for A+ though, you might need to suck it up. Cost is the main impediment, the going rate seems to be about £110 just for the test, which is a bit steep for a non-guaranteed payoff but I might be able to find a way to do it cheaper or perhaps subsidized. Or maybe just have to pay it, depends on what kind of response I get. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 03:05
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Also, if you notice 100 new posts in this thread overnight, just skip to the last page, you didn't miss anything. Funny because I just saw this thread had 39 new posts and thought "surely DaF didn't break his toxx"
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Dec 10, 2014 03:20
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OwlFancier posted:
This may not be the best advice and I am fairly new to the IT field in general (1 year). Hopefully some of this helps. Create a resume and get out there applying for jobs. Even without certifications. It seems like you know your poo poo desktop wise so maybe look at the Net+ or Sec+ and skipping the A+ in general. Although, if taking the A+ is what needs to be done to get your foot in your door then so be it. You will learn so much just by working in a larger IT environment and around colleagues, whether it is learning from them or what NOT to do. Do what Dr. Arbitrary says and look into more advanced specializations and find something that interests you. If you end up with some extra cash laying around, build a lab. This will allow you to learn fast and get hands on experience with software that sysadmins/engineers use on a regular basis. I would attribute building a lab and really diving in to what afforded me the ability to move from a desktop technician to a sysadmin albeit in a small shop, rather quickly. Which allows for getting hands on experience on a production level and learning more advanced things on a regular basis.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:57
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I always tell people. Register a domain. Install some web software on your server(Wordpress or something). Setup DNS. Setup a mail server. Actually learn what the database is for. Send mail. Learn how that terrible invention works. This is your basic lamp stack or I dunno what it's called in windows. Web/db/mail/DNS. This are the big 4. Then you can move on to networking maybe virt your db server. Figure out how that works. You can do all this on a piece of poo poo pentium if you're in Linux. Windows I don't know. Someone else will have to jump in there. E: I also want to say IT is really a calling. You can't just think of it as a job. You need to stay on top of the latest tech. Read news. Read these threads. It's like being a doctor. If you think you're done and you can make do you are obsolete already. jaegerx fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 04:10
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likw1d posted:look at the Net+ or Sec+ and skipping the A+ in general. Yeah do this. I skipped it and got my Sec+ first and I'm just some nobody. Studying for vcp now.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:10
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'd endorse your skills on Linkedin. I'm just starting on my computer science degree. ..That was god drat horrifying now.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:35
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Blinks77 posted:I'm just starting on my computer science degree. On the bright side it was the final ammunition I needed to move forward with a zero trust network whereby we firewall EVERYTHING from EVERYTHING.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:41
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jaegerx posted:Nothing else needs to be quoted here because well, those are obviously important but do I really need to understand mail to call myself a good linux guy? Don't get me wrong the world needs mail but holy gently caress it's complicated. On the Windows side of things it's so complicated that there people who breathe, eat sleep email Exchange and pull in six-figures.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:43
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adorai posted:We just did our anal penetration testing Saw this instead.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:46
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adorai posted:We just did our annual penetration testing, and of the 20 end users emailed and 6 users telephoned, over half of them took the steps necessary to give the testers shell access to their PC. And I work at a bank. Holy poo poo. I just.... why would they do that? I've got this network assignment and one of the parts of it is that this hypothetical business wants improved security. I think you've just proven to me that my initial flippant answer of "disconnect everything and don't connect to the internet like you wish to" was entirely accurate. I've enjoyed networking so far. Enjoyed learning subnetting, setting up servers, all that stuff. Dealing with that sort of thing though. I may well start plotting murder. Oh well, time between then and now really. A fair few more years to go yet. Maybe i'll focus more on programming instead. That's rather enjoyable too. On a side note. Bus trunks, backbones. Coaxial thicknet seems to have been the cable of choice back in ancient history. I can't quite figure out what's used nowadays though. Any hints? I sort of leaned towards a Star but it's just not sitting right with me, so I think i'll change the answer i'm giving as it looks like it'd be more easily expandable. Blinks77 fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 04:49
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Tab8715 posted:Nothing else needs to be quoted here because well, those are obviously important but do I really need to understand mail to call myself a good linux guy? Ugh sadly yes. You will encounter it. It will piss you off. It is terrible that we haven't implemented something new yet despite googles best efforts.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:49
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OwlFancier posted:It's hard to get my head around is all Well, people in our industry tend to like learning and improving. Some people just don't, and will do everything in their power to avoid it. It's an alien mentality to people like us, so just be aware that it exists so that it doesn't blindside you and cause you to make some poor user feel like a moron (incidentally, this is the more rare and valuable skill for IT people to have - being able to work with people, especially non-tech types).
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Dec 10, 2014 05:02
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jaegerx posted:Ugh sadly yes. You will encounter it. It will piss you off. It is terrible that we haven't implemented something new yet despite googles best efforts. Hehe, you could have worse...a lot worse. I work at a bank that IBM managed to scam into using Lotus...Every time I open that Windows 3.11 interface, my soul dies a little.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:27
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likw1d posted:This may not be the best advice and I am fairly new to the IT field in general (1 year). Hopefully some of this helps. Create a resume and get out there applying for jobs. Even without certifications. It seems like you know your poo poo desktop wise so maybe look at the Net+ or Sec+ and skipping the A+ in general. Although, if taking the A+ is what needs to be done to get your foot in your door then so be it. jaegerx posted:I always tell people. Register a domain. Install some web software on your server(Wordpress or something). Setup DNS. Setup a mail server. Actually learn what the database is for. Send mail. Learn how that terrible invention works. It's weird, I go through phases, past few years I've not paid much attention to tech because of life stuff taking up my time and being more important, now I'm thinking 'oh god you should build your own PC and start fiddling with the hardware/OS to get it just perfect that would be the most amazing thing ever' so I definitely like tech, it's just with my current job there is absolutely zero reason to be interested in it and I just want to switch off during my home hours. I think if I was working in technology and talking to technology people I would probably keep my interest in it, I'm the only remotely technically inclined person I know so it doesn't feature in my life unless I spend my free time on it, which I only really do when I have an actual need for it in some way. The PC hardware market being rather more stable of late than it was five years or so ago means I've not needed to pay any mind to my PC since I bought it a few years back. I kinda miss that, honestly, technology is interesting but without people who share that interest to discuss it with it does lose some of its charm. That'd be a plus to IT work, honestly, being able to work with people who share an interest. And if that interest can do useful things then I'd be very happy, I love knowing how to do things that are useful. I cook because I like to eat the things I cook, and I cook for other people who like what I cook as well. I troubleshoot PCs if someone has a problem that needs fixing, though I don't go out of my way to invent them for the purpose of troubleshooting. Building a lab for the purpose of better understanding problem at work and how they might be fixed or improved upon sounds like a good idea to me, but without a problem to solve it's harder. I like a challenge but I do need it to have a practical application of some sort to be motivated to work on it. It has to be useful to someone. Che Delilas posted:Well, people in our industry tend to like learning and improving. Some people just don't, and will do everything in their power to avoid it. It's an alien mentality to people like us, so just be aware that it exists so that it doesn't blindside you and cause you to make some poor user feel like a moron (incidentally, this is the more rare and valuable skill for IT people to have - being able to work with people, especially non-tech types). Technophobia is more cute to me than anything. Most people I know have a fair bit of it so I'm used to it, while I don't understand why they're like that I do understand that it isn't the be all and end all of their personality, and that it's probably embarassing for them to have this important area that they're consistently not doing well at, when they're probably quite good at other things. Plus I feel helpful when I help folks out with computer problems which is a nice feeling. 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 05:33
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OwlFancier posted:It's weird, I go through phases, past few years I've not paid much attention to tech because of life stuff taking up my time and being more important, now I'm thinking 'oh god you should build your own PC and start fiddling with the hardware/OS to get it just perfect that would be the most amazing thing ever' so I definitely like tech, it's just with my current job there is absolutely zero reason to be interested in it and I just want to switch off during my home hours. For Linux. Trueability.com. They have little tests you can take that actually go back to companies. It's fun to practice on. Disclaimer again. I worked with all the founders and helped with some of the tests. Someone needs to get this going for windows.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:38
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Tab8715 posted:Nothing else needs to be quoted here because well, those are obviously important but do I really need to understand mail to call myself a good linux guy? Mail isn't complicated though, the error messages mail servers give pretty much always tell you what's wrong and the protocols are all human readable. Exchange Administration complexities are all to do with the groupware/AD features rather than the nuts and bolts of SMTP etc. I should get a new job doing windows crap, I'll make more money out of my MCSA than my linux skills with less effort it seems.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:06
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OwlFancier posted:It's hard to get my head around is all, computers are accurate and brilliantly precise but not very clever, so you treat them as you would a person with those qualities, patiently and using your problem solving ability to help piece together what they're trying to say to you, because it's probably completely correct. Part of my former job involved screenshotting every blessed step to fixing even the most minor technical fixes to errors in vendor software and documenting what a user might say to clue you in that this was the fix needed. It was explained to me that this was necessary in case one of my fellow coworkers had to go on call instead of me. If you find yourself in IT hell, keep walking and keep polishing your resume. Entry level experience can be brutal.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:29
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meanieface posted:Part of my former job involved screenshotting every blessed step to fixing even the most minor technical fixes to errors in vendor software and documenting what a user might say to clue you in that this was the fix needed. It was explained to me that this was necessary in case one of my fellow coworkers had to go on call instead of me. psr.exe would have been a blessing for you then. It's a handy tool.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:32
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:You're way overqualified. I'm going to quote this again because i've been working in IT for around two years now and i've never thought to do that, i've always just removed the option via GP. That makes way more sense than the  REMOVE EVERYTHING method i've done before. Owl, you'll do fine. Especially in the UK, employers here have to toe the line when it comes to their workers.
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Dec 10, 2014 12:32
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This is also very relevant http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers
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Dec 10, 2014 14:58
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Just officially accepted my first IT position working primary support at an elementary school. I took a small pay cut but the regular schedule and hours coupled with getting the experience I need is invaluable. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself! 
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Dec 10, 2014 15:55
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Drunk Orc posted:Just officially accepted my first IT position working primary support at an elementary school. I took a small pay cut but the regular schedule and hours coupled with getting the experience I need is invaluable. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself! That's awesome man  And you're right, it may be a small pay cut now but it'll lead to much bigger and better things than your old job would have.
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Dec 10, 2014 15:58
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Drunk Orc posted:Just officially accepted my first IT position working primary support at an elementary school. I took a small pay cut but the regular schedule and hours coupled with getting the experience I need is invaluable. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself! I wonder who is more of a pain in the rear end, engineers or 1st graders
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Dec 10, 2014 16:56
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ElGroucho posted:I wonder who is more of a pain in the rear end, engineers or 1st graders
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Dec 10, 2014 16:59
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Do they even have kids read real textbooks anymore? 
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Dec 10, 2014 17:08
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Drunk Orc posted:Just officially accepted my first IT position working primary support at an elementary school. I took a small pay cut but the regular schedule and hours coupled with getting the experience I need is invaluable. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself! Yay! One of my friends works school IT, he doesn't make a ton but it's 15 years more and then he makes a pension for the rest of his life.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:37
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dogstile posted:I'm going to quote this again because i've been working in IT for around two years now and i've never thought to do that, i've always just removed the option via GP. That makes way more sense than the I guess this is an important thing to remember when it comes to interviews or evaluating the skills of your peers. Even experienced people won't know every trick in the book. If you're in a position where you're interviewing people, don't put too much weight on any one question of this type.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:42
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Zero VGS posted:Yay! One of my friends works school IT, he doesn't make a ton but it's 15 years more and then he makes a pension for the rest of his life. I'm not going to pay into the pension here at first as its voluntary, but if something that pays decent opens up and I can get the position I might consider sticking around for that reason. Only being 10 minutes from my house on side streets owns too.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:44
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Drunk Orc posted:Just officially accepted my first IT position working primary support at an elementary school. I took a small pay cut but the regular schedule and hours coupled with getting the experience I need is invaluable. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself! Oh god, I hope your school has a decent enough budget. Otherwise get use to dealing with ancient software/hardware and cutting corners everywhere. Do you at least get summers off? At the very least you might have a chance at going rogue and making a name for yourself coming up with complicated free solutions that a paid one could fix easily.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:45
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BaseballPCHiker posted:Oh god, I hope your school has a decent enough budget. Otherwise get use to dealing with ancient software/hardware and cutting corners everywhere. Do you at least get summers off? At the very least you might have a chance at going rogue and making a name for yourself coming up with complicated free solutions that a paid one could fix easily. It's the school system of a pretty wealthy suburb so I'm assuming it's not too awful. I've got a 4 week unpaid break in the summer but I need the money and the IT director has some projects involving server virtualization that he wants help with during that time. I want to learn hands on with it too so that's win/win I suppose.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:59
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Drunk Orc posted:It's the school system of a pretty wealthy suburb so I'm assuming it's not too awful. I've got a 4 week unpaid break in the summer but I need the money and the IT director has some projects involving server virtualization that he wants help with during that time. I want to learn hands on with it too so that's win/win I suppose. Sounds like a sweet gig. Congrats and good luck!
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Dec 10, 2014 18:03
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Drunk Orc posted:I'm not going to pay into the pension here at first as its voluntary, but if something that pays decent opens up and I can get the position I might consider sticking around for that reason. Only being 10 minutes from my house on side streets owns too. You may want to check the details on that pension before opting out. Most pension systems offer some level of employer match, and you will be able to roll over the balance even if you leave the system before qualifying for retirement. You will definitely at least get your contributions back if the school doesn't match anything, so if nothing else you get to set aside some pre-tax money beyond the IRS IRA limits.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:04
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Drunk Orc posted:I'm not going to pay into the pension here at first as its voluntary, but if something that pays decent opens up and I can get the position I might consider sticking around for that reason. Only being 10 minutes from my house on side streets owns too. You should contribute anyway, it's likely a pre-tax deduction and you're probably eligible to get contributions back at 0% interest if you leave before you're vested. School IT is great, just make sure that you set clear rules and adhere to them as a department because teachers are masters of slippery slopes and one-offs
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Dec 10, 2014 19:20
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BaseballPCHiker posted:At the very least you might have a chance at going rogue and making a name for yourself coming up with complicated free solutions that a paid one could fix easily. This is basically my whole job these days but I kinda love doing it. Honestly I should found an IT company that just hires coders to script workarounds for the limitations on free software. Pay us $1000 and I'll made the free esxi work like the $5000 version! Of course then companies could weasel some new poo poo into their EULA about how we're not allowed to do that.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:26
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