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KittyEmpress posted:BJ has fought robot hitlers, inhabited a different dimension full of zombie nazis, controlled the very elements with magic, gone against everything from vampires to werewolves and infused himself with like a dozen different kinds of magic. BJ has faced the worst this world, underworld and netherworld has thrown at him... he still hates Nazis the most. He can't be stopped, he's the spirit of the century. The century of killing Nazis 
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Jan 2, 2015 03:46
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AradoBalanga posted:I'm starting to think the shrapnel in his head grants some insane defense buff that not even Deathshead knows about, given that most of it is from Deathshead's castle. What's a piece of shrapnel lodged in your head but a permanent armor pickup?
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Jan 2, 2015 03:52
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Kai Tave posted:What's a piece of shrapnel lodged in your head but a permanent armor pickup? This, I'm going with this explanation. I'm shocked at how utterly detailed the home base of the Resistance is. Starbreeze went all out when they made it.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:40
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I can't wait to see Kefkafloyd's update on the soundtrack for this because I love the music throughout the entire part of Belica Labour Camp. Also wow I did not even hear half of these conversations along the side or so, drat. So...yeah I was extremely uncomfortable, I cannot believe they went this far with this mission in the game, but holy gently caress am I appreciative of how WELL they did it. The beginning is slow and very sobering of the true horror of Nazi regime, the middle is determined but stealthily subverting order and breaking up against them, and the ending is triumphantly brutal. ...that music that plays during the Herr Faust stomping is loving awesome but poo poo was that part of the game just brutal to fight through, even with a huge-rear end mech powered by the deaths of innocents. Literally. Seriously, how hosed up is that. Also you noticed the map on the wall in the camp command building? Notice Scotland is greyed out whilst England is in Nazi colours? Areas of resistance the Nazis have not yet fully conquered are greyed out basically, so I'm feeling some fictional pride in seeing that there  I actually own the Occupied Edition of Wolfenstein: TNO which comes not only with several Nazified postcards you could send to lovely friends, but also a very tongue-in-cheek 20-page travel guide of occupied Britain which is pretty darkly hilarious.If anyone wants me to throw in some of the text from it if anyone can't find a scan of it or so online I'd be glad to put in some in this thread 
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Jan 2, 2015 04:46
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Engel is terrifying, and so is every scene with her in it, one way or another.  Speedball posted:I'm shocked at how utterly detailed the home base of the Resistance is. Starbreeze went all out when they made it. They really did, and they made great use of Id's megatexture stuff. Megatextures certainly had some problems early on in Rage (visibly streaming in ALL the textures every time you turned around  ), but it seems like the kinks were all worked out for TNO.
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Jan 2, 2015 05:24
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KittyEmpress posted:It's part of why the 'It's not supernatural bupkis' is such a great line. Because no, in Wolfenstein BJ has fought a dozen different kinds of supernatural entities, and used 'technology' powered by magic a dozen times. Well, what is the supernatural but what science cannot yet explain? Perhaps Set is correct: it's not "supernatural", merely science that has not been explored by contemporary scientists yet. I mean, even real world science starts to operate in ways that it "shouldn't" when you look to closely (read: quantum mechanics). What's to say that there truly is no supernatural, merely incomplete knowledge of the universe?
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Jan 2, 2015 05:49
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So, I was trying to be cheeky about getting people excited about the next episode without even finishing this one, not knowing that it went on to the base again after the mission. The big thing that I like about this level is that lots of the prisoners from the camp are in your base as well now. Compared to how no one survived aside from Fergus last time you tried to break into a prison, I think that this one was an even greater success.
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Jan 2, 2015 05:50
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chitoryu12 posted:Well, what is the supernatural but what science cannot yet explain? Perhaps Set is correct: it's not "supernatural", merely science that has not been explored by contemporary scientists yet. True enough. There's just a lot less "glowing green poo poo" parascience going on in this one. ...and this just reminds me of how many eerie parallels the Captain America: First Avenger movie had to Wolfenstein 2009.
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Jan 2, 2015 05:51
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I'd say the camp entrance is the most impressive part, more than corpse crawling. I'd also play a game Ba... you, know, the African resistance guy. I will add that most games have this false conflict between science and magic, because wizards and wizardry come from magic. They know what rituals produce what spells, so they clearly have the reproducible effects nailed down. Plus, they more or less know the effects of each spell (no "cast fireball once, light a candle, cast fireball second time, the city exploded), they have some sort of measure for inner power needed to cast spells, and, at least in Forgotten Realm, they know where magic comes from. And then you have oWoD, where technocrazy is basically "freezing" magic into technology, to make mass production of the safest of the spells. The phone works because everybody believes that the technical innards of the phone are what makes it work, thus working as sort of erzac ritual of sorts. At least that's how I understood it, anyways. Arcanum does it well, I think, with gun bound demon explaining to unlookers why the gun exploded and why it was a bad idea to try and do it (also works to explain why you don't have mages with apocalyptic blunderbusses running around).
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Jan 2, 2015 06:22
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You try stabbing something vital through 6+ inches of rock hard muscles. Mr. The Knife was doing good by drawing blood.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:26
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Pvt.Scott posted:You try stabbing something vital through 6+ inches of rock hard muscles. Mr. The Knife was doing good by drawing blood. Well, that too. Also, gameplay and story integration: this whole stabbing thing brings BJ down to 5 points and I thing he starts regenerating once he pulls out the knife. Oh, and those corpses burning chambers reminds me of the room with the coal loader back in the prison level... And there are two wooden lawn chairs next to the chamber BJ was supposed to be burned in. Klaus and Fritz might be warming marshmellows over corpses, because Nazis. ...and I'm going to say that technically it's not true that you don't get anything from the sidequests. Killing the knife gives you a golden dagger collectible while the medicine nets you a letter by German lesbian intellectual who was at the wrong end of on crackdown, had to make a deal and marry a man, gave birth to a son, then he and her husband were arrested for statue 175 (no homo law), while her girlfriend and her son watched.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:35
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Teddles posted:I don't get why the super science guys didn't go "Welp, the Nazis found our just-for-funsies superweapon designs and are trying to take over the world. Maybe we should help out the good guys?". They were too busy being rounded up and put into Ghettos and Concentration Camps, like the Nazis didn't find the superweapons and then start WWII, they started WWII and somewhere along the way while in the process of rounding up the Jews they stumbled on a fairly small and recent Da'at Yichud bunker that was presumably still being filled with inventions which would explain why it was so easily located. The Da'at Yichud didn't expect WWII to be what it was (hell, nobody did) and they didn't expect it to interrupt everything and throw the entire Jewish population of Europe into chaos the way it did so the were basically caught with their pants down and by the time anyone realized how bad it was going to get it was too late and the Nazis were already in charge. The fact that one of their major vaults is literally on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean suggests that the Da'at Yichud have actually done a pretty stellar job of keeping all their doomsday machines safe and were just caught unprepared by WWII which is fair enough because nobody was prepared for WWII, even the people who started it weren't really prepared for it. As excuses go 'We would have had it all under control but WWII got in the way' is a pretty good one. It's also nice that our surviving Da'at Yichud doesn't even try to throw any doubts or questions out about getting some better tech from another bunker; he recognizes that it's the only way to level the playing field and stop the Nazis even though it goes against his personal beliefs and he's willing to not only suggest it but spearhead the process if only so that he can try and impress upon us that it is important not to abuse this knowledge. Considering what has historically happened to societies that suddenly jumped forward several centuries of technological progress has been less than pleasant the Da'at Yichud's fears are fairly reasonable. chitoryu12 posted:Well, what is the supernatural but what science cannot yet explain? Perhaps Set is correct: it's not "supernatural", merely science that has not been explored by contemporary scientists yet. 'Magic' is just a word people use when they don't understand what is going on. Sufficiently advanced technology really is indistinguishable from magic, probably because for most of human history 'magic' was in fact just sufficiently advanced technology. The magic sword that shines like the moon and cuts through lesser bronze blades, but must be fed daily with rare oils lest it begin to bleed? Meteoric steel. The wizard who hurls thunder and fire is actually throwing gunpowder in pouches\onto fires. The witch who can heal incurable diseases with magical potions has found a natural antibiotic agent in one of the plants she uses and so on. The only reason people don't think magic exists is because they think they understand how modern technology works, or at least they understand that other people understand how it works. But to the average man something like the LHC might as well be magic, and even to experienced physicists anything involving quantum mechanics bloody well is magic because quantum mechanics seems determined to prove that nothing makes any sense. Magical wizards did exist, they just started explaining themselves to the rest of us and turned into knowledgeable scientists as time passed and attitudes changed. That said is any of what we see in TNO even remotely realistic or plausible? Not really, not by our current understanding of reality at any rate. That said there's absolutely no reason why they can't call their 1960s robot mechs and laser rifles 'technology' and tell us that the reason it seems like magic is because we just don't understand the underlying principles. That's just as acceptable as saying 'A WIZARD DID IT'; this is fiction after all. Personally I like the whole thing because it adds some extra layers to the Nazi characterization; we now know that Deathshead (and through him the Nazi Regime) doesn't only hate Jews because of their ludicrous ideas about genetics, Deathshead is probably reasonably terrified of the possibility of the Da'at Yichud getting their poo poo together and opposing him, so he's going to kill all the Jews to make sure that can't happen. Not only do the Nazis hate the 'subhuman' populations, at least one of them is also actively afraid of what they could do. Neruz fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 06:52
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I can't help but wonder what Set Roth's reaction to being told about the events of the previous game would be in light of the Magic/Science debate. Because I got the feeling from that conversation that Becker was just screaming at Roth in her head given the stuff she's seen.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:11
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To be fair the Black Sun stuff could just as easily have been interdimensional aliens as it could have been magic 
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Jan 2, 2015 07:13
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Neruz posted:To be fair the Black Sun stuff could just as easily have been interdimensional aliens as it could have been magic Sufficiently analyzed black magic is indistinguishable from mad science.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:15
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Sufficiently picked apart fiction is indistinguishable from regular fiction. It's a game.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:16
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Speedball posted:Sufficiently analyzed black magic is indistinguishable from mad science. Since 'magic' is just a code word for 'we don't understand this' sufficiently analyzed black magic ceases to be magic and becomes mad science 
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Jan 2, 2015 07:17
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Set would just counter that the Thule society understood the science of the Veil. The only truly supernatural stuff in the previous games was the resurrection of Heinrich and the zombies. Anyway, here's the music heard through the concentration camp level. Enjoy, for it's the last soundtrack update we're going to have for a while. There was a more hopeful arrangement of Concrete for Miles in the level, but it doesn't make an appearance in the soundtrack, it's playing when BJ is talking to Set about infiltrating the guard's barracks. Track 12: Konzentrationslager https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GeWD2KMIbs The dreary, sad guitar of the camp's ambiance. Sounds a lot like the slow part of the main menu music. Listening to it again, the music seems to have a sense of grief, of hopelessness, for a sense of loss for times better lived. It fits right in with the conversations you hear around the camp. Track 13: Herr Faust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uy08um2jKI Herr Faust (or Sir Fist) was the giant, lumbering robot that BJ commandeered at the end of the level. Fredrik Thorendal, lead guitarist of the Swedish metal band Meshuggah, guest stars on this track. Thorendal provides his trademark heavy guitar sound backed with Mick Gordon taking a turn at crunchy rhythm and synth. It's industrial, with a slow, ponderous beat that sounds like the rhythmic stomping of a murder robot. This music is half of what makes Herr Faust's rampage satisfying. kefkafloyd fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 07:34
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Neruz posted:To be fair the Black Sun stuff could just as easily have been interdimensional aliens as it could have been magic I'd say that Black Sun was more science than magic. Alternate dimensions are more science than magic in most works. BJ must be the most jaded man in the world at this point, tho. "BJ! Nazis are making demon cyborgs and cyborg aliens!" "So I better take more ammo, I guess".
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Jan 2, 2015 08:23
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Set Roth is a mensch by any name, with really great Yiddish/Hebrew dialogue. So of course I want to go look stuff up.  His voice actor, Mark Ivanir, played Marcel Goldberg the Jewish camp police officer who is believed to have actually written down the names of workers on what is known as "Schindler's List" (but not in the movie version.) He does lots of voice acting work for video games, including Mad Margo in Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena, that some of the MachineGames devs worked on when they were at Starbreeze."Da'at" and "Yichud" are both Kabbalah concepts, "knowledge/belief" at the center of the sefirot, and "unification" (more properly Yichudim), specifically the union of heaven and earth. So if there was such a concept for a great Jewish mystical society about communion with God by discovery and invention, that's what they'd call themselves. What he says to BJ that he calls "good luck," בהצלחה, "b'hatzlacha", literally means "with success." But "mazel tov" is more literally "good luck," except that's used in Yiddish in place of "congratulations". Set calls Anya "meidele," meaning "unmarried young woman," and remarks she's got something "cooking in her tshaynik" -- "teakettle". "Mamuluh," what he calls Caroline, is akin to "toddler". So he's giving Anya more credit for divining the point of his group, even though he's being callously familiar with his terms that he expects rightly no one else in the room understands. "Ot azoy" is "just like that," and "Gottenyu" means "Dear God". His name for BJ, "Shimshon," most Gentiles would recognize as "Samson".
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Jan 2, 2015 08:26
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I could totally buy BJ as a modern-day Samson given his displayed lethality.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:29
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J.theYellow posted:
There's one word you missed, it's the one the he uses to call BJ when he says "with success". I don't remember it, but in my defense, I don't speak Yiddish.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:30
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J.theYellow posted:Set Roth is a mensch by any name, with really great Yiddish/Hebrew dialogue. So of course I want to go look stuff up. Like I said, Set is the best character. Constant sarcasm and veiled insults around the clock. For those of you wondering why Set and company didn't help the Allies once the Nazis found the cache of superweapons, Set will make a statement a bit later where he indicates that there was a desire to help stop the Nazis, but it was too late to do anything once the decision had been made. It makes sense in a weird way, the Nazi stuff isn't what was found in the Da'at Yichud storehouse, the Nazis found some equipment and reverse engineered things to work how they needed them to. Think Herr Faust; the Nazis clearly didn't just find a giant robot with skull crushing arms in a cave somewhere, but they found the technology that made it possible to make Faust and the security robots and the other technological marvels the Nazis have on display through the course of the game. If Da'at Yichud started handing things over to the Allies after the Nazis had already started introducing wonder weapons it would simply be too late to turn the war because then the Allies and Da'at Yichud would have to make the technology applicable to combat when it may not be made for that purpose in the first place. That's got to be pretty brutal, knowing that if you had acted earlier or hid your poo poo better you could have stopped the Nazis from taking over most of the world. This is also conveyed entirely in a a couple sentences during a fairly long conversation, something that feel like a throwaway line for some reason.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:56
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quote:Sufficiently picked apart fiction is indistinguishable from regular fiction. It's a game. Why is it that when people start enjoying themselves analyzing fiction, someone always feels the need to come in and lambaste them for it? Let people have their fun. berryjon posted:I can't help but wonder what Set Roth's reaction to being told about the events of the previous game would be in light of the Magic/Science debate. Set would probably want to try and analyze everything from a scientific standpoint. A truly scientific mind, especially one who believes that there's technically no such thing as "supernatural", would see something that's "obviously magic" and assume that it must simply be more aspects of the universe (like gravity and nuclear energy once were) that are not yet understood. "Magic" would merely be another form of energy flowing through the universe, which can be analyzed and harnessed. For all we know, Da'at Yichud could have already made inroads into the Veil and the technology seen in Wolfenstein 2009. Hell, the Nazi superscience and magic seen earlier in the series could have very well been the first signs of them uncovering Da'at Yichud knowledge; what's occurring now is the continuation past black ops experiments and into mass production.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:59
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Lazyfire posted:Like I said, Set is the best character. Constant sarcasm and veiled insults around the clock. To be fair to Set I imagine 'how badly we hosed up' is not a subject he's particularly fond of talking about. chitoryu12 posted:Set would probably want to try and analyze everything from a scientific standpoint. A truly scientific mind, especially one who believes that there's technically no such thing as "supernatural", would see something that's "obviously magic" and assume that it must simply be more aspects of the universe (like gravity and nuclear energy once were) that are not yet understood. "Magic" would merely be another form of energy flowing through the universe, which can be analyzed and harnessed. Pretty much, if the magic actually exists then by definition it can be studied and if it can be studied it won't stay magic for long.
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Jan 2, 2015 09:00
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kefkafloyd posted:Herr Faust (or Sir Fist) I didn't think of this as something to be literally translated, I thought of it more as a reference to Faust. Speaking of Nazi inefficiency springing from leaders making stupid decisions (EG: Railway carriages six meters wide) and their subordinates following through on them through sheer terror, how come the Soviets didn't have the same problems? They were pretty gulag-happy when it came to people making bad political decisions - why didn't they end up with overengineered garbage? Or did they have just as many rotten apples in their bucket, but just a far bigger bucket so they didn't show as much? Or were their higher ups (like Stalin) just more likely to change their minds? Gort fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 12:41
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Gort posted:I didn't think of this as something to be literally translated, I thought of it more as a reference to Faust. Entirely possible,. I was thinking more of the semi-literal ways that German weapons were named during WW2.
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Jan 2, 2015 16:10
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Obviously the correct translation is Mister Fister.
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Jan 2, 2015 16:12
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Is it stated anywhere if any of the other Wolfenstein games/events are canon to this? Did BJ ever escape from Wolfenstein (if not kill Mecha-Hitler) and, without spoilers, will anything with the Wolfenstein name actually show up in game or is that a title to lump it in with the franchise? Loving the game. Definitely going to get a copy after I upgrade to a PS4 in the future.
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Jan 2, 2015 17:06
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I am loving the care that the people that made this game put into the dialog and I appreciate everyone here that is doing the translation because I would never have had a clue as to what half of it even meant.
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Jan 2, 2015 17:21
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X_countryguy posted:Is it stated anywhere if any of the other Wolfenstein games/events are canon to this? Did BJ ever escape from Wolfenstein (if not kill Mecha-Hitler) and, without spoilers, will anything with the Wolfenstein name actually show up in game or is that a title to lump it in with the franchise? Wolf3D and Spear of Destiny are not canon to RTCW/Wolf09/TNO, so this BJ never faced Mecha-Hitler. He did escape from Castle Wolfenstein in RTCW, though, so he has still done that. But there's still plenty of Wolf3D influence and homage in TNO, including some bits later on.There are discussions of previous games, though. The OSA is involved with the mission in 1946, they're on the radio when BJ and Fergus are heading in. The fact that Caroline exists, along with her conversation at the end of the London Nautica with BJ is basically about the aftermath of Wolf '09. The supersoldiers are from RTCW, of course, and BJ has some thoughts about events in RTCW in later levels.
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Jan 2, 2015 17:22
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Obviously the correct translation is Mister Fister. Well now I can't unsee this.
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Jan 2, 2015 17:50
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I've gone and updated the second post with all of kefkafloyd's posts about the game's soundtrack. Are there any other posts from the thread that should appear there that I may have missed? The thread moves incredibly fast and I know I've missed things, like where the weird Japanese derail came from a few pages back.
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Jan 2, 2015 18:28
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The thread moves fast because there's a ton of stuff to discuss in this extremely cool game. Also, note the little bit about Frau Engel not allowing any sort of religious observance unless it is Catholic. A nice subtle dig at the fact that the Church stayed unfortunately silent and didn't act much (in an official capacity, there were individual priests that sheltered people and quieter attempts to curb the bloodletting) against the Nazis or the Holocaust in WWII. Of course, there were also individual priests who were pretty loving on board with the Nazis, like Father Charles Caughlin here in the US. He was basically 1930s pro-fascist catholic Rush Limbaugh, a loudmouthed radio personality who built a huge fortune on it that he used to build the Shrine of the Little Flower Cathedral here in Detroit (I went to Shrine's catholic junior high when I was a kid) and openly spoke out in support of the Nazis' actions on Krystallnacht. What I'm saying is Caughlin was basically human garbage and a disgrace to Catholicism, Detroit, and America. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 18:44
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Night10194 posted:The thread moves fast because there's a ton of stuff to discuss in this extremely cool game. ...and the there's the Church of the Third Reich (Protestant Reich Church?). We haven't seen it, but it was mentioned in at least two letters up to this point. Adolf didn't love Jesus that much. Not as much as he hated "bibelforchers", tho.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:17
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Night10194 posted:there were individual priests that sheltered people and quieter attempts to curb the bloodletting) against the Nazis or the Holocaust in WWII. One notable example of this is Maximilian Kolbe, a Catholic friar who 1) hid Jews, 2) ran anti-nazi publications until his arrest by the Gestapo, and 3) volunteered to be starved to death in order to save a complete stranger's life. (I know his story mostly because my younger brother chose Maximilian as his confirmation name and I helped him research St. Maximilian's).
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Jan 2, 2015 19:29
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Night10194 posted:The thread moves fast because there's a ton of stuff to discuss in this extremely cool game. I was really not expecting that was all. Night10194 posted:Also, note the little bit about Frau Engel not allowing any sort of religious observance unless it is Catholic. A nice subtle dig at the fact that the Church stayed unfortunately silent and didn't act much (in an official capacity, there were individual priests that sheltered people and quieter attempts to curb the bloodletting) against the Nazis or the Holocaust in WWII. Members of the church, particularly members of the Centre Party in the Reichstag, were a huge part of the passage of the Enabling Act which allowed the Reichstag cabinet to enact laws without approval of the parliamentary body. The chairman of the party at the time was a Catholic Priest who basically asked Hitler to provide guarantees that the Nazis wouldn't mess with the Church or party. While a good number of the people in the party didn't vote for the legislation, the majority did and more or less turned the government over to the Nazis in order to secure the Catholic church's place in Germany. I'm not blaming German Catholics for the Nazis, but come on, you can't give the reigns over to someone you don't trust just because he said you could have Catholic schools still.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:47
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Yeah, I won't defend them that. Then again, basically everybody who handed the chancellorship over to Hitler thought they could control him. Very few people realized the whole country would go completely off the rails like it did, and most were just all "what can I get out of this?" ...kind of like the mob hiring the Joker in The Dark Knight, if they'd known they were opening that big a box of crazy they wouldn't have touched it. Speaking of which, where is hitler in this game? Dead? Is Dethhead the new leader? The resistance sure treats him like the de facto leader of the Nazi empire.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:59
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He's sir not-appearing-in-this-series-anymore. You can't really include Hitler in a game unless it's a stupid jetpack Hitler, otherwise it can get pretty uncomfortable. And they know they can't top the Hitler robot from 3D so they don't even try.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:05
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I could see them having brain-in-a-jar-Hitler, Krang Hitler, Mother Brain Hitler, Nuclear Throne Hitler or 40k Hitler's-corpse-on-a-throne.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:07
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