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Penske's current livery is an old McLaren one, so I figured there was some deeper connection. When has much of anything involving race cars made sense? And I'm not talking about the Marlboro one.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:45
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That and I thought McLaren and Penske were bros once?
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Jan 8, 2015 20:48
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Dudley posted:Is there reasoning for this beyond "They shared a sponsor 2 decades ago"? well, a few years ago (Vodafone = Verizon)
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Jan 8, 2015 20:50
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The livery colors and pattern on Power's car is an old McLaren one from the 1970's, iirc.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:52
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Minto Took posted:The livery colors and pattern on Power's car is an old McLaren one from the 1970's, iirc. not unless he has a different livery than this 
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Jan 8, 2015 21:06
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It was Team Penske's Wikipedia article that I read some time ago that said Power's current livery was or was based off an old McLaren one. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. With that in mind, maybe working with Andretti?
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Jan 8, 2015 21:12
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Minto Took posted:It was Team Penske's Wikipedia article that I read some time ago that said Power's current livery was or was based off an old McLaren one. i found that section in the wiki article, for some reason they're comparing it to the west livery mclaren used in the 90s/early 00s. it doesn't really look the same at all IMO. 
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Jan 8, 2015 21:18
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Human Grand Prix posted:I think JEV is staying with Ferrari F1. Ferrari letting their driver go run and develop a Honda, who they compete against in F1, seems strange. Even though the Honda IndyCar and F1 programs are completely unrelated, still seems unlikely. Also go read Will Powers Indycar 2018. It's probably the most rational (along with Mario's) in the entire series. http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/112274-indycar-2018-by-will-power e: seriously just finished that and he nails every single point. WillyP for prez. Cygni fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 21:22
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Cygni posted:The talk is that the F1 teams want their reserve drivers 'sharp', and since they can't really test anymore, they might as well go race somethin. The bonus for the IndyCar team would be a good driver without having to pay them, but the F1 team would reserve the right to pull the driver back up if someone gets injured, though. god dammit he's amazing. either i agreed with him or he convinced me i was wrong. quote:But if Firestone gives us a tire that degrades, there are more passing opportunities, more tactical variations, and it almost completely eradicates fuel-saving because the tires wear out quicker than you empty your tank. 
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Jan 8, 2015 21:38
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Cygni posted:e: seriously just finished that and he nails every single point. WillyP for prez. 100% on board and I've only gotten this far already. Willy P posted:How many wins did Penske get that year – 12 out of 16? Man, if a team won three-quarters of the races in 2015, everyone would be hitting the forums and Twitter and Facebook and all that b.s. to complain. Edit: Yep. Power For President. IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 21:39
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Will Power posted:But if Firestone gives us a tire that degrades, there are more passing opportunities, more tactical variations, and it almost completely eradicates fuel-saving because the tires wear out quicker than you empty your tank. I've been on this bandwagon for years. Firestone tires have been too good. If you make the tires run out before the fuel does, you make the racing better.
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Jan 8, 2015 21:50
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They tried to make something different with the red vs black, but it never really ended up being that interesting with tire strategies.
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Jan 8, 2015 23:31
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They've had a few races where it was a BIG deal, but generally it's a interesting tidbit but not much else. It's a hard game for Firestone, because if they make the reds go off too quickly, you have drivers/commenters on TVs talking about how their tires have gone off and are total garbage yadda yadda yadda... which is not really what Firestone is looking for when its spending millions on the series. Really the only series Firestone/Bridgestone still has any involvement in anymore, I guess. And when you look around to the tire issues in other series over the years, I don't think the teams or series really want to drive Firestone off. So yeah, tough game.
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Jan 8, 2015 23:37
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I don't think they need to get rid of reds / blacks, but make the new blacks more grippy / shorter lived than the current reds, and new reds even more so. More mechanical grip (without giving up tons of aero) and tire life that makes trying to make fuel mileage kill you on speed.
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Jan 8, 2015 23:39
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They really do need to give up some aero, though, I think that's the common theme in that Indy 2018 poo poo. Dirty air is a motherfucker, and Power's point about geese and planes is perfect.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:06
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Aero hasn't really been a problem with the DW12s, though that might change with the downforce increases the aerokits are supposed to bring.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:08
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More pressing is a wet tire that's worth a poo poo. Running Firestones did work, though, from an advertising perspective. My daily driver has a set of Wide Oval AS tires. They do the job.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:08
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Alain Post posted:Aero hasn't really been a problem with the DW12s, though that might change with the downforce increases the aerokits are supposed to bring. that's my big concern with the aerokits: although we'll have to wait until St Pete to see how it affects things...
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Jan 9, 2015 00:10
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Yeah, they punched that huge hole in the floor to try to counteract the downforce issue for next year. I think the floors are supposed to go to manufacturer design in 2016 though, so they will have to find some other way to limit downforce going forward if they end up doing that. Walker did mention that the series will continue to dictate downforce levels though, due to the Wheldon accident, so we will see how they handle it. They can always limit wing element sizes and the like.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:26
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Helicon One posted:You'll fit right in then.  me in racing sims.jpg
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Jan 9, 2015 04:07
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IOwnCalculus posted:I don't think they need to get rid of reds / blacks, but make the new blacks more grippy / shorter lived than the current reds, and new reds even more so. More mechanical grip (without giving up tons of aero) and tire life that makes trying to make fuel mileage kill you on speed. Trouble is then you get to Cygni's point. See the trouble Pirelli had in F1. They did exactly those kind of tyres to FIA spec and all they got for it was a reputation for poo poo tyres.
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Jan 9, 2015 10:22
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I'm quite excited that it appears that IndyCar seems to be viable option for a lot of people again. I think a lot of people steered clear of the IRL because of how dangerous the IR05's were (Montoya for example), and I think the DW-12's must have impressed them quite a bit. There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the sport in my opinion. There's work to be done, but I truly feel the sport is not doomed as a lot of people are being led to believe.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:44
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FuzzySkinner posted:There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the sport in my opinion. There's work to be done, but I truly feel the sport is not doomed as a lot of people are being led to believe. I've seen some iteration of this quote for years, and I have said this exact thing multiple times. At this point I'll have to see the tides turn to believe it can happen.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:52
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The series has pretty good sized fields, good drivers, a title sponsor, good crowds at lots of races, incredible racing, engine competition, visually different cars (for race 2 at least), good leadership, and is breaking even. It's doing pretty drat good, certainly better than its been in well over a decade. There is really no doom left. But there is probably never going to be some massive resurgence. It's just not likely to ever happen. 1975, 1980s, 1995, its all gone. Forever. Sorry. Just gotta be ok with that. It's those people that can't let go of the past that are whining on every comment section, but they are massive turd loser idiots.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:58
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Cygni posted:The series has pretty good sized fields, good drivers, a title sponsor, good crowds at lots of races, incredible racing, engine competition, visually different cars (for race 2 at least), good leadership, and is breaking even. It's doing pretty drat good, certainly better than its been in well over a decade. There is really no doom left. Yeah I'm fine with that. There's an old RPM 2 Night from 1999 that was pretty much highlighting how hosed everything was. I believe Robin Miller was even advocating that Bill France Jr. buy out both sides, and then for them to run under the NASCAR banner. There's a few things on a semi-realistic wishlist I'd like (3rd/4th Engine, and the return to places like MIS and Road America), but it doesn't feel like we're at a "dark time" at this point in the sport. The indirect good thing about having to have to reunify after the split is that nobody can really pull any of this poo poo any more because....there's literally no more options at this point. This is it. It feels like the powers in the sport know of this, and are doing their best to kind of circle the wagons.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:10
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I'm interested in knowing how teams like Andretti, Penske, and Ganassi seem to be able to provide enough commercial value to sponsors relative to the public's interest in the series such that they don't have to rely on pay drivers like the rest of the field. And if the other teams can start doing the same then it seems there's the chance the series can have a bright future even without the amount of interest there was back in the early to mid 90's.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:28
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Cygni posted:The series has pretty good sized fields, good drivers, a title sponsor, good crowds at lots of races, incredible racing, engine competition, visually different cars (for race 2 at least), good leadership, and is breaking even. It's doing pretty drat good, certainly better than its been in well over a decade. There is really no doom left. People also forget exactly how poo poo some of the field fillers were back in the heyday. Sometimes it was equipment (Arnd Meier using a Lola in 1998 for some reason) but certain drivers make Saavedra look good by comparison.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:47
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Bhester posted:I've seen some iteration of this quote for years, and I have said this exact thing multiple times. At this point I'll have to see the tides turn to believe it can happen. yes but anyone who said that prior to the DW12 was insane. anyone who turned on a race and saw the IR05 probably thought they were watching ESPN classic.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:56
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The DW12 is a good car.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:09
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I remember watching the first DW12 race at St Pete which was probably the most boring race that I've ever seen and afterwords thought that they'd somehow managed to make things worse. How wrong can you get!
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Jan 9, 2015 21:14
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whenever two of the DW12s collide and no one shatters a wing/cuts a tire/breaks their suspension i, wicka, think "i wish f1 was more like that"
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Jan 9, 2015 21:24
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Human Grand Prix posted:The DW12 is a good car. I'm worried the aero kits are going to ruin it.  ...and I used to be looking forward to them.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:26
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Theris posted:I'm worried the aero kits are going to ruin it. Yeah, sorta worried too... there's that chance out there that they will look uglier and race worse, which would be pretty funny from the 'they just cant win' perspective at least.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:40
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the only thing that indycar had with the old car that they've never had with the new car is a good Indy 500 bump day. I understand the reasons why we don't - in 2010/11 we had a bunch of old cars with no real future (and the centennial race) with an engine supplier willing and able to provide engines to anyone who paid them; while now you have less cars and engine suppliers that don't seem to want to support extra cars that aren't likely to qualify for the 500) - but its a shame that after how good bump day was is 2010 and 2011 we had a day full of practice in 2012 and 2013 and then they changed the qualifying system for last year. Perhaps we'll see bumping return some day!
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Jan 9, 2015 22:55
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Human Grand Prix posted:People also forget exactly how poo poo some of the field fillers were back in the heyday. Sometimes it was equipment (Arnd Meier using a Lola in 1998 for some reason) but certain drivers make Saavedra look good by comparison. Dennis Vitolo might be the worst driver to ever get a ride in a major American series.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:00
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IceAgeComing posted:I remember watching the first DW12 race at St Pete which was probably the most boring race that I've ever seen and afterwords thought that they'd somehow managed to make things worse. I thought that race was OK, funny enough. I actually really hate a lot of their constant-yellow-flag street races- thankfully they got rid of double file restarts on street tracks because: what the hell.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:01
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Alain Post posted:Dennis Vitolo might be the worst driver to ever get a ride in a major American series. counterpoint; Shigeaki Hattori, who had his licence revoked after seven races for being poo poo. Alain Post posted:I thought that race was OK, funny enough. I actually really hate a lot of their constant-yellow-flag street races- thankfully they got rid of double file restarts on street tracks because: what the hell. I've never rewatched it (because I thought it was dull as poo poo) but it was an ABC race and I'm sure they just followed the leaders all race while they ignored racing down in the pack; which was apparently pretty good for a street race. But then Barber happened and that was a great race; helped by the fact that the TV coverage actually covered cars racing rather than just the leader! Double-file restarts at somewhere like Texas might be good; but not at the street tracks. I still can't believe that they've totally killed standing starts - it actually meant that the field was grouped together at places like Long Beach rather than the leaders going while everyone else is stuck before the hairpin... IceAgeComing fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 23:01
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IceAgeComing posted:counterpoint; Shigeaki Hattori, who had his licence revoked after seven races for being poo poo. The Shig was so bad and embarrassing that both Honda and Toyota refused to supply him engines. Traditionally, they would help Japanese drivers.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:10
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I still love Hiro because he has the best nickname in CART history.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:13
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Human Grand Prix posted:The Shig was so bad and embarrassing that both Honda and Toyota refused to supply him engines. Traditionally, they would help Japanese drivers. ha I didn't actually know that, although it explains why that team used the Mercedes engine that year. He did use Toyota in the 2003 IRL season; but that might be because Toyota agreed to give AJ engines that year and he hired Shigsy for... some reason.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:14
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