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Philosophy blogging aside, what do y'all think will happen to the RPG market in the near future? A hobby like comics managed to tie itself to movies and put itself back into the public eye; is there anything like that for RPGs in general or is it going to end up like model trains someday?
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Jan 19, 2015 02:48
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Bendigeidfran posted:is it going to end up like model trains someday?
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Jan 19, 2015 02:51
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osirisisdead posted:Plato was not a literary critic.
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Jan 19, 2015 02:57
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Bendigeidfran posted:Philosophy blogging aside, what do y'all think will happen to the RPG market in the near future? A hobby like comics managed to tie itself to movies and put itself back into the public eye; is there anything like that for RPGs in general or is it going to end up like model trains someday? That already happened and it's called World of Warcraft.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:14
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FMguru posted:Someday? Ha ha. Really though, the fact that Wizards and Paizo apparently don't publish sales is mind-boggling to me. They're like anti-companies. It makes the RPG market into a hilarious black box where we have no idea how many people are playing with each hard-copy and how many people just play online or use pirated PDFs. From a Forbes interview with Nathan Stewart we get this: quote:With Dungeons & Dragons on the tabletop, I think what we’re doing is doubling, tripling down at the core level and giving all of the players who’ve played a lot of D&D in the past a great reason to come back. Then we’re gonna start dabbling with bringing it out to a broader audience. We’re not gonna go big time on that this year. We’re gonna use a lot of our partners to reach that more mass market audience, let them use their channels that have really done well –whether it be advertising or whether it be through direct mail or whatever type of outreach they do there. Are there any companies out there that know what the hell they're doing? Or are things going to run on Kickstarters from here on out? Though I have to admit, Kickstarter has a nice fit thematically with tabletop gaming.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:21
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osirisisdead posted:I used "verisimilitudeousness" somewhere earlier in the thread. I too, take all my cues on things from my reading of their wikipedia pages.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:28
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What's commonly called 'cultural marxism' was very much a product of intentional Frankfurt School socialism, encouraged by Soviet Communism to try to destroy confidence in the west by encouraging identity politics and the fragmentation of culture (something the never, ever put up with in the actual communist totalitarian countries, you'll note, where it was all "one worker's state" all the time). It has gently caress all to do with anti-semitism and everything to do with actual ideas done by an actual fifth column for an enemy that died 25 years ago. Post-modernists are zombie soldier-infiltrators following programming made for them by an enemy that long since failed on its own home ground. As for reaching people, again, motherfucker: I'm a 5e consultant, my forum is one of the most active gaming forums around, and I now have a very successful political column. I'm reaching numbers you can only dream about. Talking about failed states: at least the Forge Swine are still in the fight. You're the champion of a set of games and style of play that are so in the toilet now no one even feels the need to oppose them anymore. I win.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:01
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"Critical thought as applied to books we read is a Marxist Plot" being an actual conspiracy theory never ceases to amaze me. 
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Jan 19, 2015 04:04
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Bendigeidfran posted:Are there any companies out there that know what the hell they're doing? I mean, aside from Wizards your average RPG "company" is basically "owner who hires a bunch of freelancers and runs the operation out of their garage". It's a labor of love, you sure as gently caress aren't making a lot of money off it. And somehow? It was even worse back before the crowdfunding thing caught on.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:16
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osirisisdead posted:Couldn't, or weren't because that was the context of the virtual place in which they were discussing the movie? Not weren't, couldn't; as in I tried to point out the other themes of the movie and they thought I was crazy.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:18
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Mexcillent posted:What's commonly called 'cultural marxism' was very much a product of intentional Frankfurt School socialism, encouraged by Soviet Communism to try to destroy confidence in the west by encouraging identity politics and the fragmentation of culture (something the never, ever put up with in the actual communist totalitarian countries, you'll note, where it was all "one worker's state" all the time). It has gently caress all to do with anti-semitism and everything to do with actual ideas done by an actual fifth column for an enemy that died 25 years ago. Post-modernists are zombie soldier-infiltrators following programming made for them by an enemy that long since failed on its own home ground.  I will turn to face god, then walk backwards into hell.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:19
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Error 404 posted:
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Jan 19, 2015 04:28
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how is john tarnowski real
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Jan 19, 2015 04:28
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Bendigeidfran posted:Philosophy blogging aside, what do y'all think will happen to the RPG market in the near future? A hobby like comics managed to tie itself to movies and put itself back into the public eye; is there anything like that for RPGs in general or is it going to end up like model trains someday? The model train industry I'm pretty sure makes way more money then ttgs do. They've even gone digital! Everyone laughs about TRAIN SIM and it's ten trillion DLC packages of a single new type of train each, but that poo poo sells well.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:31
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Tollymain posted:how is john tarnowski real Reminder that he is actually correct about being a spokesperson for D&D, the biggest gateway into the hobby. That's the face of tabletop gaming.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:32
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Bendigeidfran posted:Ha ha. Really though, the fact that Wizards and Paizo apparently don't publish sales is mind-boggling to me. They're like anti-companies. It makes the RPG market into a hilarious black box where we have no idea how many people are playing with each hard-copy and how many people just play online or use pirated PDFs. Eh, I can understand not giving sales figures if you don't have to. Paizo is privately held and WotC is a subdivision small enough that they don't have to say how many units they're moving. Movie box office receipts and TV ratings and so on get reported because other parties (exhibitors, advertisers) want that info. The games industry just doesn't have anyone exerting pressure.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:32
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ProfessorCirno posted:The model train industry I'm pretty sure makes way more money then ttgs do. They've even gone digital! Everyone laughs about TRAIN SIM and it's ten trillion DLC packages of a single new type of train each, but that poo poo sells well. Traditional non-miniature wargames are probably a better comparison, since they've been basically supplanted outright by stuff like Civilization or Crusader Kings.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:34
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I mean if we accept that the first theory of literary analysis came from the Frankfurt School (it didn't), and we accept that it's a marxist plot (lol), we have to follow the logic that got us there and also somehow consider Sigmund Freud's entire body of work to be part of a marxist plot because of how his ideas were incorporated into it. We then have to confuse critical theory with literary theory (the latter borrowing elements of the former because literary theory is a beast that devours ideas), trace a line through Feminist literary theory because why the hell not, that's the de rigeur bullshit among insecure morons, trace it backwards in time to Max Weber because his ideas are foundational to critical theory (and sociology itself) along with the ideas of Marx, and from there launch into a massive conspiracy theory about how all social sciences are secretly Communist and have been since before Marx wrote Das Kapital. I mean, it only makes sense.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:37
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So what does Tarnowski think of other, traditional/mainstream RPGs like say, GURPS or Shadowrun or RQ or any of the (very relatively) big names outside of indie forgist swine whateverthehellhisglitchis
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Jan 19, 2015 04:38
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he hates world of darkness, iirc
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Jan 19, 2015 04:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:So what does Tarnowski think of other, traditional/mainstream RPGs like say, GURPS or Shadowrun or RQ or any of the (very relatively) big names outside of indie forgist swine whateverthehellhisglitchis He doesn't. For the most part, if it exists outside of the D&D bubble and his lunatic rantings, he has no opinion about it. He only hates World of Darkness because it sold better then D&D at some point. You gotta realize that a lot of people are not tabletop gaming fans. They're D&D fans. Or, more often now, Pathfinder fans. They have no care or interest for other games.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:41
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Maxwell Lord posted:Eh, I can understand not giving sales figures if you don't have to. Paizo is privately held and WotC is a subdivision small enough that they don't have to say how many units they're moving. Occasionally someone lets slip a tidbit. Like this: quote:"Magic: The Gathering" -- Hasbro's Key to Growth
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Jan 19, 2015 04:42
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Tollymain posted:he hates world of darkness, iirc Yeah that's the thing in the toilet he's referring to.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:42
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Asimo posted:Pretty much yeah. I used to use model trains as a comical comparison, but in retrospect they're far healthier and far more profitable. That's something you can't say about TTRPGs anymore.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:54
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osirisisdead posted:I meant literary theory. Fundamentalists. It's like grog and fundamentalism are closely linked on a deep level. Probably because they both emerge out of an American textual tradition heavily geared towards reading things literally.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:21
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ascendance posted:It's like grog and fundamentalism are closely linked on a deep level. Probably because they both emerge out of an American textual tradition heavily geared towards reading things literally. It's because they both take criticism of their favored media as personal criticism, same as gamergate.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:25
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I'd bet you a dollar that there is a significant overlap in the sets of Christian Fundamentalists and Gamergaters.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:37
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osirisisdead posted:I'd bet you a dollar that there is a significant overlap in the sets of Christian Fundamentalists and Gamergaters. I'd take that bet. Gamergate is far more "fedora atheist" then anything else. Fundamentalism isn't the property of religion alone. Go back and read that Pundit quote.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:40
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Gamergate chat still goes in the hellthread. No GG in TG!
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Jan 19, 2015 05:40
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'd take that bet. Gamergate is far more "fedora atheist" then anything else.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:51
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I suspect that they're mostly the angry children of abusive American Fundamentalists.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:55
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osirisisdead posted:I suspect that they're mostly the angry children of abusive American Fundamentalists. Many also become angry and frustrated about being forced to conform to a fundamentalist environment. However, many atheists also come from mainline Protestant churches, and are looking for a system of belief that is more zealous and more dogma driven that mainline Christianity. I read an article outlining the research into this. Can't find it at the moment, unfortunately.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:05
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I found the words for my creed in a hip-hop song, so I can't really fault anyone on their religious beliefs. Whatever gets us through the day, I guess. We should stop derailing this thread, though.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:09
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I mean if we accept that the first theory of literary analysis came from the Frankfurt School (it didn't), and we accept that it's a marxist plot (lol), we have to follow the logic that got us there and also somehow consider Sigmund Freud's entire body of work to be part of a marxist plot because of how his ideas were incorporated into it. We then have to confuse critical theory with literary theory (the latter borrowing elements of the former because literary theory is a beast that devours ideas), trace a line through Feminist literary theory because why the hell not, that's the de rigeur bullshit among insecure morons, trace it backwards in time to Max Weber because his ideas are foundational to critical theory (and sociology itself) along with the ideas of Marx, and from there launch into a massive conspiracy theory about how all social sciences are secretly Communist and have been since before Marx wrote Das Kapital. I'd hope that Pundit reading Weber would cause a black-hole to engulf his brain with the growing awareness that Weber is also foundational to his madcap theories. It's Pundit, he's the REAL cultural
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Jan 19, 2015 06:29
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It always comes full circle.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:37
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Despite it all, I honestly think things in this industry and in video games are getting better. It's just slow, and the fact that the geekboy regiment is losing control of the entire hobby is making them increasingly vicious and paranoid. Ten years ago, the idea of having trans characters wouldn't have even occurred to people. Twenty years ago, trying to have an equal mix of male and female pronouns, or eschewing gendered pronouns entirely, would have been seen as completely ridiculous. There was a lot less criticism of the hobby's use of minority characters. Our voices are getting louder, and they're getting increasingly shrill trying to shout us down. They're going to continue to attack, they're going to continue to drive good people out of the hobby, and yes, it's going to get worse before it gets better. But I think that it will get better.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:40
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ProfessorCirno posted:You gotta realize that a lot of people are not tabletop gaming fans. They're D&D fans. Or, more often now, Pathfinder fans. They have no care or interest for other games. That's so weird though. I couldn't fathom ever playing just one game on Steam forever, no matter how "generic" it was
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Jan 19, 2015 06:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's so weird though. I couldn't fathom ever playing just one game on Steam forever, no matter how "generic" it was My entire gaming group is like this. I've yet to get a good explanation from any of them as to why they won't play (or DM) other games.
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Jan 19, 2015 07:06
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Asimo posted:Almost all the decent writers actually wanting to earn a living and make a real profit have moved on to writing novels, drawing graphic novels, working on video games, or some other creative industry where there's an actual audience. Most of the people who actually work in the industry are either fans who are willing to spend hundreds of hours for basically no return (and are probably freelancers who work an actual livable job on the side) or people like Siembieda who carved out a niche early on but lack the business sense or motivation to grow it into a large and successful company. It's not necessarily an audience. It's money. The TRPG industry is such small potatoes compared to video games and film. Comics books would alsobe fairly small if it didn't have to ability to market outwards into merchandise. Instead, there's little to no apparent investment into major brands of TRPGs to refine and build up the brand. Attempts have been made such as what TSR did and the Dungeons and Dragons movie and Bloodlines, but all that inertia built up goes nowhere and the brand is back to its niche. Any attempts to broaden the base is held back by grog being so far up the chain and the biggest brand having to compete for talent and resources within its own company. The amount of return on investment in putting someone good at game mechanics into MtG would pay out far more than dropping them into D&D. The same goes for writing or probably any other position. Related to that problem is that each position and skill necessary needed to make a solid, robust, or otherwise broadly appealing RPG have places in other hobbies or careers that have more inertia or straight up pay. Even board gaming, a hobby that sits in a niche almost sided by side with TRPGs, is probably a healthier community and slightly more profitable than TRPGs though I might be wrong. Wargaming may be in the same boat as well, but GW as one of the biggest Wargaming companies in the industry, seems pretty good at utilizing its brand.
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Jan 19, 2015 07:57
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Related, I'm pretty sure that most of TSR's revenue in the 90s, basically everything post-Dragonlance, was from their novel lines. Even the company who did D&D couldn't go with it as their primary income.
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Jan 19, 2015 08:03
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