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I caught an interesting one car (I think) accident on the commute this morning. It looks like she was following too close and didn't notice brakes in front of her, tried to swerve out of the way and then wildly overcorrected. When I got even with her later she was still cruising along in the right line white knuckling it with her hazards on.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:33
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| # ? May 8, 2024 19:17 |
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That looks a lot like the 210. I actually think the carpool lane is way more dangerous than regular lanes. I see people getting rear-ended all the time, people don't expect them to stop despite the fact that in socal they're just as congested.
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Mar 4, 2015 06:06
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Yeah that happens in Northern California and Seattle too.
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Mar 4, 2015 06:31
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nm posted:That looks a lot like the 210. Close! It was the 10, East.
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Mar 4, 2015 06:49
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Trisk posted:Close! It was the 10, East. Ah the other side of the same lovely coin.
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Mar 4, 2015 07:11
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Jesus, seeing video like that makes me want to go find a bare stretch of freeway and see how I react in a situation like that. I mean, I've had panic situations before and I have never, ever, come close to losing control of a car like that. Once I came over a hill at about 70 mph to much slower traffic, and I did momentarily lock up a wheel till ABS kicked in, but all I did was aim for the shoulder in case I couldn't stop in time, which I actually did. And recently a guy just dead stopped in the left lane of a 40 mph zone when he saw a fire truck coming, and because I was preparing to merge right and stop, I almost hit him. But even then I just did a fast lane change and dodged right around on my way to pulling over myself. But that holy poo poo swinging around action, I can never imagine doing that, but it's mostly because I pay god drat attention to my surroundings and watch very far down the road so I almost never have to panic stop.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:49
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Not my video (but a place I've driven a bazillion times) and kinda the same scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VpAY9yGaZw I wonder if everybody wouldn't just be better off if the tailgater stayed the course, braked hard, and let the ABS and the insurance companies sort out the rest. I can totally see the "anything but hitting another car" mindset in the situation though. A few good, solid, hard stops from speed would do a lot of drivers good, I think. I wouldn't be surprised if the average driver had no clue how hard you actually can brake in good conditions.
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Mar 4, 2015 10:42
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bolind posted:A few good, solid, hard stops from speed would do a lot of drivers good, I think. I wouldn't be surprised if the average driver had no clue how hard you actually can brake in good conditions. A local autocross group does a yearly 'teen driver school' thing that I instruct at. One of the things we run the kids through is full ABS stops, both in a straight line, and while making an emergency lane change. I'd say that 9 out of 10 of them do not get into the ABS until the 5th or 6th run through the scenario, even with an instructor sitting with them yelling to push the pedal harder (and having started the thing by demonstrating ABS with them riding along). I think it was Mercedes that did some sort of a study while working on their automatic braking system that determined something like 50% or more of drivers in simulated barrier collisions never used more than 80% of the braking and did not engage ABS.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:50
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The Locator posted:A local autocross group does a yearly 'teen driver school' thing that I instruct at. One of the things we run the kids through is full ABS stops, both in a straight line, and while making an emergency lane change. I'd say that 9 out of 10 of them do not get into the ABS until the 5th or 6th run through the scenario, even with an instructor sitting with them yelling to push the pedal harder (and having started the thing by demonstrating ABS with them riding along). I remember doing this as part of my driver's ed. It took me a few times to actually hit the ABS. Modern cars can stop very quickly indeed.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:52
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Top Gear demonstrated that recently in their Australia episode.. the cars they were driving went from 60-0 in like a quarter of the distance the UK standards mandate.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:16
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The Locator posted:A local autocross group does a yearly 'teen driver school' thing that I instruct at. One of the things we run the kids through is full ABS stops, both in a straight line, and while making an emergency lane change. I'd say that 9 out of 10 of them do not get into the ABS until the 5th or 6th run through the scenario, even with an instructor sitting with them yelling to push the pedal harder (and having started the thing by demonstrating ABS with them riding along). A lot of newer cars will automatically apply the brakes 100% if you go from the gas to the brake quickly, no matter how gently you press the brake. It was rather startling the first time it happened in the Panda.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:35
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KozmoNaut posted:A lot of newer cars will automatically apply the brakes 100% if you go from the gas to the brake quickly, no matter how gently you press the brake. That seems like a recipe for rear-end collisions to me.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:55
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The Locator posted:That seems like a recipe for rear-end collisions to me. Yeah, really. The light ahead changes, so you stab the clutch, jump off the gas, and right onto the brake, applying 20%. Then the car decides "actually, " and maxes it out? I can think of a number of situations where I'd jump from pedal to pedal quickly, without intention of braking hard.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:06
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The Locator posted:A local autocross group does a yearly 'teen driver school' thing that I instruct at. One of the things we run the kids through is full ABS stops, both in a straight line, and while making an emergency lane change. I'd say that 9 out of 10 of them do not get into the ABS until the 5th or 6th run through the scenario, even with an instructor sitting with them yelling to push the pedal harder (and having started the thing by demonstrating ABS with them riding along). Do you guys get to use the red/green lights that Bondurant uses? I went through that back in December (on the one day it rained of course) and I didn't have too much trouble getting into ABS... because it was locking them up pretty easy on wet rough pavement  The Locator posted:That seems like a recipe for rear-end collisions to me. I've felt this kick in on my CR-V all of once. Thanks to learning to drive on my C10 with its godawful brakes, I tend to drive as if I have fuckall for stopping power (I put ~80k on a set of Hawk HPS pads and they were nowhere near worn out) but even then it can certainly be calibrated to only kick in when needed. The one time it did kick in, I'm pretty sure it helped save me from running into the guy in front of me, so there's that.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:20
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KozmoNaut posted:A lot of newer cars will automatically apply the brakes 100% if you go from the gas to the brake quickly, no matter how gently you press the brake. I've had mine do this a couple times, and it definitely scares you a bit. Also, got to love it when its super cold out like today and you just touch the brake pedal and almost go through the windshield. I've actually been trying to figure out the limit of my tires in the snowpack. Even standing on the brakes I can barely break these new winter tires loose.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:29
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The Locator posted:I think it was Mercedes that did some sort of a study while working on their automatic braking system that determined something like 50% or more of drivers in simulated barrier collisions never used more than 80% of the braking and did not engage ABS. That actually explains a lot. I was wondering why some cars offered an emergency brake priming system along with their automatic distance cruise control systems - to me it sounded like something that was needlessly being added. However, if people only really use 80% of the available braking power, I can imagine the car automatically giving you that last 20% could be the difference between a near-miss and a full collision.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:46
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IOwnCalculus posted:Do you guys get to use the red/green lights that Bondurant uses? I went through that back in December (on the one day it rained of course) and I didn't have too much trouble getting into ABS... because it was locking them up pretty easy on wet rough pavement I've done the Bondurant thing, but no, this was done by Border Region down in Marana. We used the redneck system of waiting until the last second and then yelling "Left!" "Straight!" "Right!" 
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Mar 4, 2015 20:49
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ABS is used a lot more in areas that get real winters. Given how heavy vehicles have become and the fact almost no one runs winter tires, if there's any snow on the road it doesn't take much at all for ABS to start doing its thing. Now whether it helps anyone stop in that case I can't say, if your tires are completely unsuitable for conditions there's not much ABS is going to be able to do except maybe shave off a few percent of your speed before you destroy someone's rear end.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:50
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The Locator posted:That seems like a recipe for rear-end collisions to me. Or spins if it happens midcorner.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:51
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nm posted:Or spins if it happens midcorner. don't lift don't lift don't lift
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Mar 4, 2015 22:01
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nm posted:Or spins if it happens midcorner. To be fair, anything capable of doing this also likely has some decent stability control that will just turn that into "plowing straight off the road" or maybe even just save the driver's rear end from their own stupidity.
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Mar 4, 2015 22:03
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I was thinking more about my typical stop and go rush hour commute on the I-10. Thousands of cars following nose-to-tail, starting, accelerating briefly, then slowing to a stop again, with 90% of the drivers barely conscious and aware of nothing beyond the slight awareness that they should not ram into the guy in front of them. Insert a car that goes to full braking in this normal stop-n-go traffic, and it's pretty much a guarantee that someone rear-ends it.
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Mar 4, 2015 22:04
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Fair enough, but at least from my limited experience with them (the CR-V is the only car I've driven at any real distance that has this ability) they don't kick in just from a quick gas-brake transition; you've got to be jumping on the pedal a decent bit already. In that case, you're really just changing who gets rear-ended first. I'd wager your old Fiesta and your Focus ST both have it.
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Mar 4, 2015 22:08
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IOwnCalculus posted:Fair enough, but at least from my limited experience with them (the CR-V is the only car I've driven at any real distance that has this ability) they don't kick in just from a quick gas-brake transition; you've got to be jumping on the pedal a decent bit already. In that case, you're really just changing who gets rear-ended first. Could be, but in that case, this description that I was replying to: KozmoNaut posted:A lot of newer cars will automatically apply the brakes 100% if you go from the gas to the brake quickly, no matter how gently you press the brake. is completely wrong, otherwise I'd get it engaging constantly. I do my best to not do fast transitions from gas to brake, but there are at least a few times each day during the commute that someone decides they need to be in my lane right when I would normally be transitioning from gas to coast, or even while I'm accelerating, that require a judicious application of brakes straight out of acceleration. Also - I've autocrossed the Focus a few times now, and I left-foot brake a lot while autocrossing, sometimes very hard braking coming off full throttle, and I've never noticed anything, and the only times I've been in ABS where when I wanted to be.
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Mar 4, 2015 22:13
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Yeah, agreed, my point is that unless a manufacturer is royally loving up, a light tap of the brake (no matter how soon after throttle) shouldn't result in max-panic-stop. If Kozmo's really got a car that does that... that's hosed up. And in the category of fuckheads who don't know what signals mean... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QilbjSSTk (also yes I needed to clean the lens of my G1W apparently)
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Mar 5, 2015 06:23
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, agreed, my point is that unless a manufacturer is royally loving up, a light tap of the brake (no matter how soon after throttle) shouldn't result in max-panic-stop. If Kozmo's really got a car that does that... that's hosed up.
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Mar 5, 2015 08:14
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I was witness to an accident caused by a guy going straight on a green arrow. Not like a huge accident and it was a while ago but yeah. It was like WTF.
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Mar 5, 2015 10:15
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The Locator posted:Could be, but in that case, this description that I was replying to: An exaggeration and misinterpretation from my side, you probably have to go straight from the gas to at least 25-50% braking or something like that before it kicks in. I only ever had it kick in accidentally once or twice in the Panda. It also prevented a collision once when my ex-GF was driving and some jerkoff pulling a trailer swerved right in front of us and braked. She remarked that the Panda braked a lot harder than she expected it to, so I figure the system overrode her input and slammed the brakes. The 500 has it too, and given that a couple of AIers own 500s and probably drive them in a spirited manner, if the system was too intrusive, we'd have heard about it. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 10:52
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BMW does it too. I've had it happen a few times, it seems to require a very specific set of circumstances, I've never had it kick in when it was unwelcome. All that happens is the brake pedal becomes very firm with no travel at all, so your initial press causes a large amount of braking force rather than the pedal moving and gradually increasing brake pressure. It's not like the pedal feels normal but the car randomly decides to stop as hard as it can.
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Mar 5, 2015 13:41
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I'm not quite sure of the name of the system but yeah it has seen widespread adoption due to some manufacturers noticing some crashes could have been completely avoided (at least in Europe) had people not been afraid to just floor that brake pedal on their ABS equipped cars. There Emergency Brake Assist: Emergency Brake Assist posted:The first application was developed jointly by Daimler-Benz and TRW/LucasVarity. Research conducted in 1992 at the Mercedes-Benz driving simulator in Berlin revealed that more than 90% of drivers fail to brake with enough force in emergency situations. DonVincenzo fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 5, 2015 |
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Mar 5, 2015 17:38
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sanchez posted:BMW does it too. I've had it happen a few times, it seems to require a very specific set of circumstances, I've never had it kick in when it was unwelcome. All that happens is the brake pedal becomes very firm with no travel at all, so your initial press causes a large amount of braking force rather than the pedal moving and gradually increasing brake pressure. It's not like the pedal feels normal but the car randomly decides to stop as hard as it can. I like the BMWs with the "panic brake light" mode where extra brake lights come on when you hit the brake pedal extra hard. It helps me realize that most modern BMW owners are idiots who leave braking until the very last second and then shove their foot through the floor instead of looking ahead. They should just replace the extra brake lights with a little flag that pops out from the fender, saying "RETARD" and accompanied with either a comedy kazoo or deflating balloon noise.
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Mar 5, 2015 19:11
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I like the BMWs with the "panic brake light" mode where extra brake lights come on when you hit the brake pedal extra hard. It helps me realize that most modern BMW owners are idiots who leave braking until the very last second and then shove their foot through the floor instead of looking ahead. There's already such a flag. Some say it's meant to represent a white propeller over a blue sky. All I know it's that it looks a lot like the Bavarian flag.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:15
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Seat Safety Switch posted:It helps me realize that most modern BMW owners are idiots who leave braking until the very last second and then shove their foot through the floor instead of looking ahead. I just wanted to tell you that this was probably the best post in this thread in the last 5-10 pages. I'm still laughing.
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Mar 5, 2015 20:41
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I've got the flu, I don't usually sound like a munchkin.  http://youtu.be/SwDutFaJZ74
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Mar 6, 2015 01:03
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oxbrain posted:I've got the flu, I don't usually sound like a munchkin. The horn is clearly indicated in that circumstance, even post facto, just to make them feel like the worthless sack of poo poo they are.
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Mar 6, 2015 02:50
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oxbrain posted:I've got the flu, I don't usually sound like a munchkin. OK so if you hit that guy, whos at fault? I always wonder about stuff like this. Yes, he was breaking the law there, but he was also right in front of you and very obvious, so you should be able to avoid it, right?
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Mar 6, 2015 04:07
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Laserface posted:OK so if you hit that guy, whos at fault? I mean if it was clear you were distracted and that caused it, you might get some percentage fault, but he's likely to be over 51% unless he can prove you intentionally hit him.
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Mar 6, 2015 04:10
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Laserface posted:OK so if you hit that guy, whos at fault? The wide angle lens distorts the distance. He was under 100' away when I first saw him and I was at about 40mph and still accelerating. If the road had been wet I would have hit him. This is the intersection. I was turning from S Grady onto 167. The solid painted lines give a better view of the distance. oxbrain fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 05:05
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Laserface posted:OK so if you hit that guy, whos at fault? Depends on your statement. If you're a moron and give the "they came out of nowhere!!!" then you're likely to have some negligence. If you're real dumb and say you saw them but took no evasive action because you had the right of way. (this has happened) you may wind up being majority at fault. If you brake and attempt to avoid the accident but can't because they pulled out too close, not much you can do. Some carriers have hard ons for putting negligence on everyone for everything, and if you're in a contributory state you better have your own coverage to go through.
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Mar 6, 2015 05:05
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| # ? May 8, 2024 19:17 |
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It's really quite clear cut, unless you hand them dash cam footage of you being stupid and going "Yee-haw" as you accelerated into him, he turned left in front of oncoming traffic. He is fully at fault here in AZ. It wouldn't even be a question as he failed to yield to oncoming traffic. If it's illegal to make a u-turn there based on the laws where you are with that pavement marking, then that makes it even more clear cut. Also, it's nice how after doing that he couldn't even figure out what lane he actually wanted to be in and ended up in the gore point.
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Mar 6, 2015 05:44
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