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Thunderbro posted:We're going to shoot the magic woman in the head with a bullet in the city's centerpiece, surrounded by the army, with the majority of our operatives sitting on a lever in the same building Not to mention that Galbadia aren't staffed with (relatively speaking) morons. Even though they claimed to accept Balamb's disavowal of Seifer's stunt, they're definitely watching for another attempt from a Garden. Also, I can't believe it took so long for this to sink in... I think my brain attempts to shield me from unmitigated idiocy but it just can't succeed against FFVIII's onslaught. Why are the loving headmasters of a loving military academy and the head of the loving Galbadian loving armed forces loving both loving determined to discus their skull fuckingly stupid loving traitorous plans in loving public!? One moron in a cosplay pirate coat I can almost consider thinking about overlooking, but this guy. gently caress He's probably got detailed plans of the city and holograms and poo poo that he could demonstrate this in the privacy of his home or in some military barracks or something.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:44
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Bregor posted:This is the best part of the plan. "Well we know she can phase through walls and/or materialize out of nowhere, so let's trap her with some wide metal gates! To be fair, we only know that our group has been privy to that ability. And of course, Squall doesn't think it fit to bring up this point, since he's such an obedient soldier.  Really, what makes this plan stand out from the train plan is that at least Squall calls the Owls out on it.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:52
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Welp, I couldn't resist. SeeD: Intelligent as a sack of mentally-incapacitated Wampa dung.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:54
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Variant_Eris posted:SeeD: Intelligent as a sack of mentally-incapacitated Wampa dung. Sack!? 
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Mar 17, 2015 00:11
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FeyerbrandX posted:Sack!? Or bigger sack, if you prefer.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:19
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e: gently caress, nevermind. The link to the mod for this game contains spoilers....dammit. Well my post was just saying this LP has made me want to play FFVIII again and I was gonna play a mod called Final Fantasy VIII Requiem. You can easily find it on Google if you care to try it. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:30
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Variant_Eris posted:Or bigger sack, if you prefer. Throw in a PBS tote back, and you've got a deal! SeeD: completely missing the point for so many years we ran out of fingers to count them.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:34
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it's a ways up yet, but honestly the sheer unworkability of this plan is fairly reasonably explained later, I think
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Mar 17, 2015 02:34
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VYabIvxqaYcURyb180bXJWMTg/view?usp=sharing Just figured I'd host the FFVIII Mod I was recommending somewhere else, that way spoilers can be avoided. I've talked about the mod on here before and some have said it sounds awful. But the only way I can play FFVIII anymore is with this mod. quote:The thing about the Requiem Mod is it actually makes it a necessity to utilize the game's various features. You could beat the game with ease in any number of ways in the original and that's precisely why I never had fun with it. Since you can break the game with minimal effort, actively learning about the game mechanics probably isn't going to happen. The mod though was so hard that you needed to understand how everything worked or you are screwed. I needed to learn about Triple Triad, I needed to learn about Crisis Levels, I needed to learn about what items refined into what, I needed to actually play the game instead of just coasting through it. I had a lot of fun with the refining system in particular, just figuring out what cards made what items and then these items can be changed into some other items and so-on. And a small sample of another poster's early run through the mod to give you a more clear idea of it: Doctor Goat posted:Characters now hit like pillows even with second tier magic on STR-J. 200 is my current limit on damage with Squall kitted out with 100 Thundara on his attack junction. Elem-ATK-J is negligible.
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Mar 17, 2015 03:37
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That sounds unpleasant. Unless the game lets you skip the cutscenes and in-engine dialogue that's just punishing. "Congratulations, you survived several hard battles, watch Rinoa explain the train hijacking!" Like worse than FFT 1.3 unpleasant. A dentist doing a root canal with oven mitts and instead of normal filling enamel or epoxy or whatever he uses primed C4 tied to an RNG sounds more pleasant.
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Mar 17, 2015 04:35
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Well you know you'd have to play this on an emulator unless you're gonna burn it to disk like some sort of weirdo. My point being, since you'd be playing it on ePSXe or something, you have save states. You save state after the cutscene and before the hard boss. I think all mods and patches take the power of save states into consideration. Or they should anyway. Edit: Or wait, are you just saying the game is so bad that making the gameplay take longer in addition to the horrible story makes the game more unpleasant? Well...that's an interesting position I guess.
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Mar 17, 2015 05:06
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Part Twenty-Eight: What Comes Naturally Now that I've figured out that I'm playing as Quistis instead of Squall, we're free to get this plan started.  I'm also free to rename our new GF. They will now be called SquarEnix, but let's be real: it should be SquarSoft.  SquarEnix are a GF that primarily exists to boost your HP. In the same way that Mufasa ended up learning Str Bonus, these guys will get HP Bonus.  SquarEnix also have a unique command. Defend completely blocks physical damage (and status effects) and halves magical damage for a turn. I've never made extensive use of it, but it has its applications.  Cover is also here. If you equip it to someone, that character will take hits for others (as long as they're standing next to them). Since it's easy to get everyone's HP and defences way high, you can probably skip this one.  I just set them to learn Str-J so I could have a complete set. It's an important stat if you want to pour out damage, especially using the male characters, whose Limits all do physical damage; the female characters have magical limits, except for Rinoa whose Limit is more of a wild card.  I also shuffled some junctions around.  Fun fact: while you're Quistis, Quistis gets Squall's paycheque. I wonder if she still outranks him.  Another fun fact: you can escape the camera in this room.   Selphie and Zell are excited to be working with Quistis. You know, I wonder if anyone's told them that Quistis got fired.  As we try to leave, Rinoa busts in the place.  : Finally got out of there! Did that man say something?He said a lot of stuff, and he ran around like a fool, too. It was all very silly.  : No, not really.Zell, that is a lie.   Uh, he's at...the store.  Quistis puts her foot down. We don't have time to talk about Squall. : Hold on a sec.Rinoa this sorceress is not going to kill herself.  Rinoa digs around a bit, then pulls out a thing.  It disappeared. : This is called an Odine Bangle. I found it in that man's room.: Odine!?  : Whatcha gonna do with it? Lotta things are supposed to do a lot of things.  Look at Quistis here. In the game, she's actually laughing at Rinoa.  Zell, please.   If you've been paying attention to the info pages, you'll recognise the name Odine. Dr. Odine invented Para-Magic.  Quistis is already done with this plan.     This is a pretty good interplay of personality and body language, with Quistis as an actual experienced SeeD (and the only one in the room!) and Rinoa as a person with more passion than strategic ability.   : Squall and Irvine are already standing by. We have an operation to carry out, too. You understand, don't you?Quistis is right, of course. Rinoa's going to have to sit this one out.   Ladies and gentlemen, Quistis Trepe.   Zell and Selphie awkwardly follow her out.    Rinoa's feelings are hurt, but Quistis isn't in the wrong.  Well, that was fun.  Now we're Squall again.  Squall, ever the optimist, is already working on plan b.    This line stays up for loving ever. Also, Quistis was 100% full of poo poo when she said Squall was already in position.  Something is obviously bothering Irvine.   Since we're party to Squall's thoughts, we know that he's also got reservations about this. Of course, he completely fails to express them.  Irvine, unfortunately, chooses to be oblique in his line of questioning.  : (...An enemy that is pure evil?) Squall, instead of answering Irvine, decides to ponder the philosophy of the question.  I like the juxtaposition of Squall's thinking with the system message here.  Anyway, back to Squall. Note that none of his lines after Irvine's are being said aloud, so Irvine is just left hanging.  And now we're here.  Selphie, none of you are good at your jobs. Did you know Quistis got fired literally yesterday?  General Caraway: The gateway team will wait inside the gate until 20:00. You can enter through this door. The sorceress will pass through the gateway at exactly 20:00. In that instant, lower the gates using the control console located on the top floor and trap her inside the gateway.  Good luck, Quistis.   The two of them facing opposite directions gives this shot that little something extra.   Galbadia Garden is only one of the involved parties. General Caraway: It's starting. I'm returning to my residence. Good luck. Caraway's not here to play twenty questions.  As he passes the arch, the gateway team pops out. : Maybe I was too hard on her...: Too hard?: I'm going to go apologize...This is a terrible idea, but Quistis lost her position as an instructor due to lack of leadership skills, and that's what we're seeing here. : You mean...Rinoa?: But...but... We can't just leave our post! She's not wrong, and as Selphie pointed out, this isn't a three-person job.   Too bad they all decided to be bad at their jobs at the same time. Now, this is a bad decision, obviously, but I don't think it's really out of character. Like I said, Quistis was just fired for lacking leadership skills, and the ability to stand by a decision is one of those. So it makes sense for Quistis to go off like this. Selphie follows her because that's what Selphie sees fit to do: she doesn't have as much of an obviously stated character, but with things like her jumping off the cliff during the exam and how she talks, it's pretty clear that she's not the most serious person, and she seems to underestimate the seriousness of things. Zell follows them because he absolutely cannot resist peer pressure. Every one of these characters is immature and bad at their jobs in a way that feeds the others.  So now we're the gateway team again.  Note that we are maybe thirty feet behind Caraway. Quistis could easily get his attention by yelling at him.  We're just behind him going into the mansion.  Rinoa is still sitting there, thinking about what to do.   She has nothing to say to Caraway, just waving him off.  Caraway, of course, is still worried about his daughter. This is a pretty well-worn kind of situation in fiction.  I like that Rinoa says nothing.   This is a pretty good exchange, I'd say. There aren't any words wasted.   Rinoa knows Caraway well, naturally, and spots his plan.   She manages to escape the trap.  There's a beat here. Keep in mind that we don't see the rest of Caraway's house, so I'm pretty sure this study is at the back of the place.  Enough time passes for Quistis to have missed Rinoa.    She realises how bad this could be.  And then the door locks.  And Quistis is caught in the trap meant for Rinoa.  : ??? Did we get...locked in?: That Caraway guy!?: We're smack dab in the middle of a family quarrel here! "This is bad," she says, having just shitted everything up. : What do you mean?: Rinoa's probably on her way to see the sorceress as we speak. Quistis feels bad because she's the kind of person to feel bad when she hurts someone's feelings, but also because she knows Rinoa is probably about to go into mortal danger and she could have stopped it.  Speak of the devil.  We are now Rinoa, who has sneaked into the presidential residence by herself.  Our first stop is the sewer.  There it is. Deling City has some fancy-lookin' poo poo pipes.  I gave Rinoa Squall's junctions before I came down here.  There are, of course, monsters living in the sewers.  It was only after the battle that it occurred to me to junction Rinoa with Booyakaga, who is so close to learning Enc-None here.  The sewers here are just a straight shot down, and at the end we can find this. It's pretty easy to miss.   New weapon pictures/recipes are always fun. I skipped this weapon for Rinoa accidentally because I stumbled into the materials for the next level up.   For some reason, Slaying Tail doesn't scream Sleipnir to me. The Japanese name (スレイプニルテイル/Sureipuniruteiru) is Sleipnir Tail. That was just a fun little aside, though. Now back to the task at hand.   Rinoa is, of course, serious about helping the SeeDs. Leaving her alone was actually probably the worst choice possible.    She is now neither properly equipped to attack the sorceress nor properly defended. It may be irresponsible and immature of her to run off and do this, but if you're surprised by that, then you are terrible at seeing patterns.  This is some...interesting architecture. What is that ladder even for?  On top of the house is the sorceress.  And here's Rinoa.  : Umm... Excuse me... I'm...the daughter of, um...Galbadian Army's, um...General Caraway. I...thought I'd...come pay my respects... You know...'cause of my father and all... I suppose she wasn't lying when she said she had a plan.  Fun fact: the player gets control of Rinoa for a little bit here. You cannot just leave.  The obvious direction to go is towards her.   Doing so gets Rinoa blasted back.  You know, between this and the thing with Seifer, I'm inclined to think that the sorceress can read minds.  While she's on the floor, Rinoa's arm is twitching.  It seems she's not all the way in control.    Then the sorceress knocks her out and just dumps her on the floor. This is, uh, probably bad. Cool Ghost fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 05:47
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Variant_Eris posted:Welp, I couldn't resist. I've added this to the second post.
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Mar 17, 2015 05:51
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Rinoa's plan is to walk right up to the Sorceress and trick her into believing a stranger has an awesome bracelet she needs to put on right now. Squall's teammate is rambling on about knowing who the enemy is and whether or not they're evil. He just needs a few words of encouragement to help him focus on the mission, but Squall lets his questions hang in the air. You can practically feel the awkward silence. Irvine thinks soldiers need to be "fired up" to do their jobs. He has one thing to do, and wondering about good and evil and morality before a mission is just a distraction. Quistis made the correct decision by being tough on a spoiled brat. Now she feels bad about it and abandons her post, which might be helpful if she caught Rinoa, but she's too late and fucks up twice as bad. Selphie is a highly trained mercenary and can flip a lever by herself, something she tells everyone during the dry run. But she runs off after Quistis anyway, presumably to see the conversation between Quistis and Rinoa. Zell is still desperate to be accepted by his peers, so much so that he ignores orders to remain at the gate just to stay with them. And he still has a massive face tattoo. Everyone is a terrible moron. 
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Mar 17, 2015 06:44
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Wow, it was really cool to learn about the Gerogero change, and the mechanical breakdown of the games' systems, and to see all the care put into NPC dialogue and those pre-rendered backgrounds. Man, the world of FFVIII is beautiful, and super cool and there are so many good ideas and even the gameplay systems have so much potential. It's such a shame that everything is so deeply flawed. The hardened teenage mercenaries thing never quite gels with the fun school anime vibe. The exchanges between Seifer, Zell and Squall and Quistis are really fun, but their overall characterisation is shallow and uninteresting. The exposition and foreshadowing is extremely haphazard and important world-building is strangely buried in favour of teen angst and random NPC characterisation. Most of the dungeons are unique and well designed with great set pieces, but then you get the odd one that is absolute boring garbage. Junctioning and GF abilities and cards are JRPG crack to me, but gently caress level scaling and gently caress drawing magic. (God, they could've solved so much if they just let you buy spells...Which reminds me that the SeeD salary system was such a cool idea, gently caress.) And then there's the fact that save for a couple of cool sequences, disc 1 is the peak of the game. Maximum ambivalence. This is my second favourite FF game and I 100% understand why people hate it. Cool Ghost posted:
 Cool Ghost posted:
 Anyway, cool LP. Love all the detailed info. Just wish you could gif some of the animations. (Like Seifer kicking that dude into the camera - 'cause that was awesome.)
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Mar 17, 2015 06:53
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I had apparently blocked most of this game from my memory, because I don't remember all this horribleness with the plan. This is perhaps the most incompetent poo poo I've ever seen and makes it even more questionable why the gently caress the b team got assigned this mission.
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Mar 17, 2015 06:53
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I think this is where the game loses a lot of people. I think the general perception was that Quistis is the most professional and focused of the group so this strikes people as being a monumentally absurd thing to do. I don't know though, I buy it. Maybe this is just me defending this game's story to ridiculous lengths but isn't Quistis, like, 19 years old? I get being frustrated because these people are supposed to be professional, but Quistis abandoning her post to apologize during a life or death mission strikes me as a totally teenager thing to do. I don't know. I feel the game tries to set up that everyone is just Really Bad at their jobs but the atmosphere for the last 45 minutes has been so serious that it's jarring to see them get sidetracked so easily. Also re: Rinoa. I see what they were trying to do with her whole development here, and there's actual opportunity for there to be nuance and intrigue. The least they could have done was make Caraway a little more...I don't know, outwardly evil or something? Just to give her an actual reason to rebel against him beyond something so typical.
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Mar 17, 2015 06:55
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Everyone on the team acknowledges that pulling a lever is not a three man job. Selphie points out that they can't leave their post. Quistis specifically orders Selphie and Zell to remain at the post. Selphie and Zell ignore the order for no reason at all. Quistis does not immediately send them back, also for no reason at all. None of this makes sense. Selphie has shown that she keeps her eye on the prize- at Timber she was sent alone to find Seifer who she had never seen before, who turned out to not be where he was supposed to be, and she still hunted his rear end down across the whole city to deliver a message. Zell is a stickler about following mission orders, and wants to follow them until badgered to do otherwise by a commanding officer. I just don't buy the justification that Selphie is a bit flighty and Zell is a giant loser for why everyone acts completely and totally irrationally and out of character.
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Mar 17, 2015 07:01
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Khisanth Magus posted:I had apparently blocked most of this game from my memory, because I don't remember all this horribleness with the plan. This is perhaps the most incompetent poo poo I've ever seen and makes it even more questionable why the gently caress the b team got assigned this mission. Cid, for whatever reason, really wanted this mission done, even though the rest of the staff kept shooting him down because it wasn't anywhere close to worth it for them. The party gets assigned to it because they're the newbies of SeeD.
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Mar 17, 2015 07:08
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NikkolasKing posted:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VYabIvxqaYcURyb180bXJWMTg/view?usp=sharing I'll probably play it at some point, but making an entire game walls-hard isn't entirely appealing either; that's what put me off FF4DS. I'd be fine with having to use strategy and such for bosses, but if random encounters are going to be an absolute slog.... Also, Glacial Eyes could always Petrify, they just didn't pull it out til about levels 20+. Back to this bit, yeah. Making the entire gateway team run off was really really dumb. I don't like Quistis running off to apologize, but maybe she realized after the dealings with Seifer that you don't just scold someone and leave them to sulk without something going to happen. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 07:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'll probably play it at some point, but making an entire game walls-hard isn't entirely appealing either; that's what put me off FF4DS. I'd be fine with having to use strategy and such for bosses, but if random encounters are going to be an absolute slog.... If Quistis realised that "ah poo poo, she's gonna run off and go through with her plan anyway if I don't stop her" then that would be something and would imply that she's actually thinking about other people. But nope it's just "she's upset because of me so I better apologise"
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Mar 17, 2015 07:48
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Extra Tasty posted:Also re: Rinoa. I see what they were trying to do with her whole development here, and there's actual opportunity for there to be nuance and intrigue. The least they could have done was make Caraway a little more...I don't know, outwardly evil or something? Just to give her an actual reason to rebel against him beyond something so typical. Really I wish they'd had some sort of little flashback for their falling out. Hell, if memory serves, Rinoa never in fact discusses what exactly caused her and her father to stop getting along. It'd be a little contrived, but you could even tie together her basic character arc with it. General Caraway is inspecting the Timber Garrison and has to take Rinoa along because her mother has recently died. She sees something awful, could be a lot of things. Hungry kid in the street lets say. Gives him some jewelry to trade for food. A soldier sees it and arrests the dude and gives it back to Caraway to suck up. He doesn't believe that Rinoa gave it away, and seeing the kid locked up when she was trying to help forms the foundation of her drive to liberate Timber. Not great, a little contrived, but it's something y'know? Testekill posted:If Quistis realised that "ah poo poo, she's gonna run off and go through with her plan anyway if I don't stop her" then that would be something and would imply that she's actually thinking about other people. But nope it's just "she's upset because of me so I better apologise" Recurring problem in FFVIII, really (although the worst of it has yet to come). They come up with some really stupid reason to make something happen for a plot contrivance, when they could do the exact same twist with a simpler and more believable explanation. It could be a substantially less silly game by changing single lines of dialog, it's crazy.
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Mar 17, 2015 08:05
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CmdrKing posted:Really I wish they'd had some sort of little flashback for their falling out. Hell, if memory serves, Rinoa never in fact discusses what exactly caused her and her father to stop getting along. It'd be a little contrived, but you could even tie together her basic character arc with it. It comes up pretty late in the game as far as I recall.
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Mar 17, 2015 08:08
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ApplesandOranges posted:It comes up pretty late in the game as far as I recall. In true FF8 fashion, far after the player has forgotten all about it. 
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Mar 17, 2015 08:16
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'll probably play it at some point, but making an entire game walls-hard isn't entirely appealing either; that's what put me off FF4DS. I'd be fine with having to use strategy and such for bosses, but if random encounters are going to be an absolute slog.... Not all Random Encounters are that tough. The Anacondaurs were the worst by far except for the Wendigos. After all, if REs were that much of a nightmare you would be screwed when you had to draw magic. And there are some spells you will absolutely need to draw, like Flare from a certain monster on Disk 2. A real lifesaver when I found it. Of course, it would have wrecked me if not for Status Junction and putting it to sleep. Which is just more of why I love the mod - the original game made a big deal out of Status Junction against T-Rexaurs when you can just annihilate them no problem with physical attacks like you can do with everything else. In the mod, being able to put enemies to sleep or blind them will be very, very useful at times. That all being said, there are some bosses in the mod that are just plain nightmares..... Don't forget about the Queen of Cards Sidequest! For the love of god you will need to do that as soon as possible and get Auto-Haste by refining...I think it was Kiros' Card? It turned into 3 Accelerators and you can teach a GF Auto-Haste with that. There is a boss in the mod that I died so many times to because I didn't do the Card Queen quest and didn't have Auto-Haste... And it wasn't even close. They would destroy my party repeatedly within the span of 2-5 minutes. But forget that, let's talk about the update. I'm gonna say I understand what Quistis was doing here. This doesn't make it not stupid but it does fit her character. The thing about Quistis is, unlike what a poster earlier said and what most others see in this scene, it wasn't just Quistis yelling at Rinoa for being a spoiled brat and dumb. Quistis was yelling at Rinoa because Rinoa is a romantic rival. We all know Quistis has a thing for Squall and we also have seen Rinoa attempting to be close to Squall. What's more - and this separates Rinoa from Quistis - Rinoa will not be denied. In spite of all the times Squall rebuffs her, Rinoa keeps trying to break through his icy exterior. Quistis has apparently all but given up after Squall mercilessly shot her down back at Balamb. The point is, Quistis did not snap at Rinoa because Rinoa was being "childish" or anything like that. She was just snapping at her perceived competition and someone she's a bit jealous of. And so naturally she feels bad about this and wants to say sorry, because Quistis is a good person. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 08:20
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Schwartzcough posted:Everyone on the team acknowledges that pulling a lever is not a three man job. Just quoted because what else can you say. Court Marshal scene - Why did you leave your post? To go and apologise for saying mean things sir! Awful writing and really stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid plan.
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Mar 17, 2015 10:02
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So they get locked into a room. A room that has windows. I could maybe see this trapping Rinoa, but they are mercenaries. With weapons and magic and GFs. Apply the Selphie solution. Blast the door. Break a window. Summon Mufasa to make a hole in the wall. I refuse to believe this situation would actually stop them for more than thirty seconds unless they're all complete idiots.
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Mar 17, 2015 10:09
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"I have to keep my daughter safe!" Sets 5 minute timer that beeps every second and walks away from rebellious teenage daughter.
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Mar 17, 2015 10:15
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This is one of the biggest contrivances the game comes up with to "solve" some of its problems at once. These would be: - We need some kind of tension before the plan goes through, because "yeah we set up everything perfectly and then started to execute it" is obviously boring and useless to show. Of course, they couldn't just cut the preparation phase and jump right into the action because that would have meant leaving things out and FF8's writing is deathly afraid of that. - Rinoa needs to be captured by the Sorceress, possibly while fleshing out her character some more. This is of course impossible without some contribution by the other people, because even though FF8 focuses a lot on Squall and Rinoa, only Squall is ever allowed to be alone in thoughts and actions; Rinoa ultimately only exists with him, because of him and for him. - To achieve the above, the writers thought it best to use a hilarious comedy of errors which is in its own right a microcosm of ridiculous contrivance. Caraway locks the room, but not on his own, with this timed switch from somewhere else, which Rinoa knows about and has time to escape, and which takes juuuust long enough for the other three to miss her completely, somehow, and walk in before the door closes. - The next problem is that everything since arriving in the city could have been one extended cutscene, shattering the pacing. This is the only reason why the "trial" tomb exists, and it's the only reason for the next segment. Plot-wise, neither dungeon is even remotely necessary, and while keeping the gameplay pacing at least reasonably flowing (I still think there is far too much talking in this game, most of it stupid), it kills the story pacing somewhat fierce. Which is strange, considering the emphasis on story. Did I ever say these were good solutions they came up with? - The final problem is that none of these things happening makes sense, so they desperately write line over line of characters awkwardly explaining their motivations for doing the stupidest poo poo possible, in the futile hope that the sheer amount of words will lull the player into a "huh I guess if you put it THAT way" state. At least if the player is me.
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Mar 17, 2015 10:16
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Extra Tasty posted:Also re: Rinoa. I see what they were trying to do with her whole development here, and there's actual opportunity for there to be nuance and intrigue. The least they could have done was make Caraway a little more...I don't know, outwardly evil or something? Just to give her an actual reason to rebel against him beyond something so typical. He does do something pretty evil I guess but it gets revealed way later and you've probably forgotten who he is by the time it gets revealed. It's not straight out said either so it's even less likely you'll make the connection.
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Mar 17, 2015 10:17
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LordAba posted:"I have to keep my daughter safe!" Of everything that is so terrible about this scene, THAT is what bugs me the most. He's gonna lock her in, leaves the room, and doesn't close the door behind him? And she realizes that he's magically gonna lock it and gets out without him noticing? Was this scene any clearer in the Japanese version about that?
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Mar 17, 2015 14:01
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The Squall that shows up in Dissidia is so much better than the guy we have now. i get Squall's character, so I don't hate him, but it's so frustrating since we have his thoughts and nobody else's. All he has to do is tell Irvine (btw, is this Ir-Vine like Vine Whip or Ir-Veen?) that he can do this but he's too wrapped up in thought to come through. Knowing how the game goes, it sucks knowing just how much of a difference it would've made. I really hated Quistis in that moment, but I caan't say it was out of character for her. It was just stupid.
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Mar 17, 2015 15:15
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Cool Ghost posted:
I always thought she was shaking with barely suppressed rage. I guess derisive laughter would be more in-character though.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:06
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Schwartzcough posted:Selphie has shown that she keeps her eye on the prize- at Timber she was sent alone to find Seifer who she had never seen before, who turned out to not be where he was supposed to be, and she still hunted his rear end down across the whole city to deliver a message. Zell is a stickler about following mission orders, and wants to follow them until badgered to do otherwise by a commanding officer. I just don't buy the justification that Selphie is a bit flighty and Zell is a giant loser for why everyone acts completely and totally irrationally and out of character. I saw Selphie in Dollet more as worried about passing her exam than following orders. The result is the same, but the intention implies a very different thing for the character. As far as Zell, in Dollet he looks to Squall for support after he tells Seifer his decision is a bad one, but follows him anyway. It's pretty much the same thing he does here, even though I think Zell is totally aware that leaving their post is a bad idea. Star Platinum posted:I always thought she was shaking with barely suppressed rage. I guess derisive laughter would be more in-character though. Honestly, you might be right. I thought she had her hand up to her mouth the way she does when she's laughing.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:38
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having spent the last three years working with teenagers, it seems like everyone who says this part makes no sense has not spent the last three years working with teenagers
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Mar 17, 2015 16:39
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SonicRulez posted:(btw, is this Ir-Vine like Vine Whip or Ir-Veen?) I always read it as "Ir-Vine", as in "Eddie Irvine", the F1 driver.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:40
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morallyobjected posted:having spent the last three years working with teenagers, it seems like everyone who says this part makes no sense has not spent the last three years working with teenagers  .Seriously, though - I think the argument that their behaviour is realistic because they're supposed to be irrational is bad in two ways. First, you can explain just about everything with "but their actions are SUPPOSED to make no sense!", which is far weaker than, say, using Quistis' previous history with bad leadership qualities. That I find tentative because we're only told she lacks those qualities and really only see a possible example here, but whatever. It's still a better case to make, I feel. Secondly, as "realistic" as that kind of behaviour might be, it doesn't mean I have to enjoy that as a player. Guns jamming randomly is pretty realistic, that doesn't mean it's a terribly good idea in most games. Teenagers loving up randomly might also be realistic, that doesn't mean I want to play as them.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:47
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I think people are being a bit harsh on the C-team because of the unforeseeable consequences of their actions. In a reasonable universe, they could've easily made it to Rinoa, told her "yo, we're sorry, why don't you come hang with us at the gate (instead of getting into trouble by yourself)" and back to the gate with plenty of time to spare. Even the method by which they get locked into the house is contrived. Doesn't make it a good decision to have all three go, but there's gameplay reasons for that, at least. Caraway is a character I think could be fleshed out a bit more. I don't think we're ever really told why he is in on the scheme. Does he want power? Does he think she won't have Galbadia's best interests at heart? What does he think of Deling and the occupation of Timber? Most every other character's motives are explained sooner or later, but I don't think there's anything for Caraway.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:10
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Simply Simon posted:Yeah, but how many people did, really? I also strongly suspect that "you, too, were a teenager once who did stupid things!" holds little merit for many, many people because I at the very least am totally convinced that I never was that stupid as a teenager, not at all. Prove me wrong it's fine to say you don't want to play as them. it just seems clearly obvious that they were going for a more realistic teenager drama with VIII, so to say you don't like it because of that is different than saying it makes no sense. their actions make perfect sense in light of the fact that they are inexperienced, young mercenaries (for most, this is their first/second actual mission, and they're being asked to assassinate a world leader), in addition to the things Cool Ghost brought up.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:32
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Kajeesus posted:I think people are being a bit harsh on the C-team because of the unforeseeable consequences of their actions. In a reasonable universe, they could've easily made it to Rinoa, told her "yo, we're sorry, why don't you come hang with us at the gate (instead of getting into trouble by yourself)" and back to the gate with plenty of time to spare. Even the method by which they get locked into the house is contrived. Doesn't make it a good decision to have all three go, but there's gameplay reasons for that, at least. There's a pretty big hint in the last update, and if we look at the background material there's another major motivation too.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:45
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